My main computer is a five year old 17" MBP. I've upgraded it to the max and done repairs to maintain it. I need the computational power - I use it for programming, photo editing at scale, and recording/mixing music.
It would cost me $3000 to replace it with a computer that is not significantly more powerful, has a smaller screen and less I/O functionality, and would be incompatible with my audio interface unless I daisy-chain multiple adapters to get Firewire. Fuck that, as long as possible.
This week, my mother's crappy Windows computer died, and I bought her a Chromebook. It was great! I'm now seriously considering getting a Chromebook for myself for day-to-day web browsing and such, and retiring the MBP to music and photos only. If I can figure out how to run Vagrant on one, I'll probably switch for development, too (or maybe I'll just start paying for a cloud-based dev environment).
Meanwhile, I keep having computer envy for a friend's MS Surface Pro. It's the first time I've ever looked longingly from a MacBook to a Windows machine! But frankly, it does things my Mac doesn't do, and the build quality is on par.
Someone please tell Apple than when you need to hold a press conference to convince people you're committed to your product, you're not committed to your product.
More than a single event, it is the string of events which create the disappointment. While Apple is indeed bound by Intels schedule for CPU upgrades, this would not prevent Apple from regular other components in their devices.
A computer like the Mini should get yearly updates - and there is no good reason to solder in the memory. While it kept the very same design, it went from a quad-core i7 to a dual-core, with fixed memory. Which then stopped to be upgraded.
The versatile Mac Pro got replaced with the current can-like design, limiting the choices and then never got upgraded. If you make a machine which cannot be user-upgraded, please upgrade it every year. There is no good reason, there is no option for the current NVidia or AMD cards available.
The iMac is still one of the better offerings - I got the 5k after the last refresh. However, while this gives you the fastest CPU, it only offers mobile graphics performance. There is no good reason why its internals, especially the drive bay are not user-accessible. While having a gorgeous display, why for all its expensiveness does it not offer any kind of video-in? If it had the ability to accept HDMI or DisplayPort input and display them in a special application window, that would be just great.
Especially, if Apple does not focus on the desktop, why are they so reluctant to sell a more traditional desktop machine? Where the user can change the hardware, if Apple cannot be bothered to do it?
All of this just adds up - and while power users in the pre-can age had at least an expensive but powerful alternative, this does not longer exist. And the other choices also get more and more limited. So it should not come as a surprise, when even the most faithful supporters get frustrated.
The most insane part of this to me, is the inability to upgrade or repair any of the desktop Macs by making them locked down, soldered machines.
These are machines meant to sit on a desk. Who cares about shaving off few centimeters of desk space if means you can't replace your RAM or hard disk or video card with off the shelf parts?
I find this both anti-user and environmentally unfriendly.
I've started to wonder if I'm the only one who isn't understanding the problem in general.
The MacBook is fine – the new models are quite expensive, and I'm sure having to carry some dongles could be annoying, but it's a lovely machine and there are obvious reasons and long-term benefits for those choices. I'll definitely consider purchasing one when the next refresh allows the processor and memory options to be bumped a bit. It's a bit disappointing the the Mac Pro or Mac Mini haven't seen updates, though I expect that's just down to insufficient sales to justify it.
The software stack is fine too – I've had minimal problems through multiple machines and macOS versions, and everything seems to be incrementally improving. Meanwhile, I get a pretty good UNIX environment and a pretty good GUI. Cloud services (calendars, reminders, keychains etc.) seem to work pretty reliably, and there are lots of little features that generally work well.
I just can't help but feel it's all a little overblown. Sure, look at the alternatives – a nice Dell running Linux, or a Surface or whatever – and if they suit your requirements better, cool! But I just can't see the abrupt, precipitous nosedive that seems to be the current narrative around Apple.
I'm not a Mac user, but having listened to friends who are, their complaints fall into:
- so many dongles required (ethernet, Adapters to HDMI, DVI, etc, sdcard readers, USB C to USB A, and another one to get their iPhone to connect) - some of them need to be genuine Apple to get decent performance, and those are all hideously expensive.
- lack of ram (tops out at 16GB even on 15" model)
- not the best battery life
All of this seems to have been sacrificed in the name of thinness.
Folks who wanted thin could already get that with the Air / Non-Pro variants.
You are right. Nothing else even comes close -- right now. But for the first time in a long time, there's an opening for some smart company to come in deliver the sort of user experience that only Apple (/ Steve) once could. We'll see if it happens or not.
> I just can't help but feel it's all a little overblown. Sure, look at the alternatives – a nice Dell running Linux, or a Surface or whatever – and if they suit your requirements better, cool! But I just can't see the abrupt, precipitous nosedive that seems to be the current narrative around Apple.
Interestingly enough, Surfaces are actually pretty expensive, especially if you try to upgrade SSD and RAM. Yet, somehow, there doesn't seem to be a big outrage over this. Most of the limitations of the MacBooks, as far as I can tell, seems to come from the fact that Intel processors simply have not advanced much in the last couple of years.
I think a lot of Mac users are forgetting how awful the Windows ecosystem still is. One gets used to everything mostly working and think that that's how it is on the other side, too.
Meanwhile, one guy I know bought a new Windows laptop to replace his flaky older one. On the new computer, audio doesn't work. Programs load slowly (~10 minutes to start up software that takes 10 seconds for me). It turned out the flakiness of the old laptop wasn't its age or power, it was the software. Lots of folks have stories like this. There's still a huge amount of uncertainty in that world.
> The MacBook is fine – the new models are quite expensive, and...
True, for Macbooks, they are fine. For MacBook Pros however, they are disappointing. They really added nothing, and just took away. And then raised the price.
Agree entirely. I actually think the title would be much more accurate if it were changed to *How coverage of Apple has created the Illusion of Apple Alienating Mac Loyalist' because I've been a mac user since the Mac Plus days and I'm pretty much the definition of loyalist, and for me non of this rings true. My new MacBook Pro 13 is a great machine (and I'm a developer...).
Sorry if I rehash the same old points. I think it's easy to knock Apple because of, "what have you done for me lately?" For awhile Apple was making really impressive changes to their laptops every year or two; slotload DVDs were standard, backlit keyboards, a great touchpad, latchless (magnetic) lid, fantastic battery life, magsafe, retina. People would still complain when they dropped a port or got rid of user-swappable batteries or DVD drives--all things that made sense long term, but the pros beat the cons. Recent changes weren't big pros (to me): clickless touchpad, force touch, low-travel keyboard, out of band wifi. It's still weird and frustrating that retina and SSDs aren't standard (when friends and family are looking to buy macs).
I also feel like recently they've been jumping in, redesigning and dumbing stuff down, then abandoning it. Disk Utility was fine. Now I have to use the command line or third-party apps for common things. Mac Pro is another example. I'd say Aperture to Photos is another example.
I was at the Apple Store today and looked at the new Macbook Pros. Not only is magsafe gone, the LED on magsafe let you know if it was charging and if it was full is gone. I wouldn't care if it was a special USB-C cable that only Apple sold or put it on the chassis. A button that lights up half a dozen LEDs to let you know approximately how empty your battery is no longer there either. Both of those are things were really nice to have. I also really dislike the keyboard. Every single Apple laptop I've bought I've had to replace or upgraded RAM, hard drive, and battery. It sucks when you have a minor issue and your only option is to "replace the logic board." The iPhone or Apple Watch doesn't even come with a USB-C cable. That's quite a few regressions and I'm skeptical if the new things compensate.
I think USB-C is an inevitability. I think their problem was holding out so long for new Macbook Pros caused two problems; the expectations were too high because of the wait and they dropped too many ports too quickly for pros. There wouldn't be as large of an outcry about the max RAM if the release from 6 months ago had the same issue or if I could just buy last year's model with 2 USB-C ports and 2 USB-A.
Sadly, I don't see anything I like better not made by Apple yet. My plan is to buy a newer, used Macbook Pro and hope I can make the jump at some future update. I'm sure the current laptops are great as-is for many people.
Hardware is not the only problem Apple has right now vis-a-vis developers.
Apple's flagship IDE, XCode, is also lagging behind, at least when talking about C++ development, but even Swift doesn't get too much love it seems.
Having used it since at least version 5, XCode 8 has been a frustrating experience for me starting from day one, when it defaulted to Swift version 3.0 and so broke all of the existing Swift projects and dependencies from CocoaPods / Carthage.
Me and thousands of devs had to waste hours if not days just to build our projects - with no way to downgrade to previous XCode version.
After that, I constantly struggle with syntax highlighting, unusable code completion, broken navigation and so on.
And that's for Swift ! Ok, my project also has Objective-C++ and C++ code, but all of them are broken beyond frustrating.
Sometimes the "comment/uncomment block" feature just stops working and the only fix is to run a magical sudo command and then restart your mac.
I've revived an older Windows 7 machine just so I could compile my C++ lib on Windows. Visual Studio 2015 + Visual Assist, which I haven't used in years, was a revelation.
I ended up refactoring most of my C++ code on that 7-year old machine and frankly it felt very good that I didn't have to fight the development environment, like I do on my $2500 MacBook pro.
Until then, I didn't even realise how unproductive XCode made me in C++.
So yeah, I'm already thinking about a 32GB of RAM, nVidia 1070 GPU, 17" monitor laptop. It costs like a Macbook pro, but punches a stronger punch at the expense of portability.
I can justify all the gaming and VR that I'll do on it with the fact that it runs Visual Studio well...
I wrote this to vent but also with the hope that someone at Apple is reading these comments and hopefully something will change soon.
I still think macOS/OSX provides the best user experience for personal computing. It's the lack of substantial hardware updates which is driving users away.
If creatives are going to pay a premium for a Mac, there should be something to differentiate it between the competition besides the privilege to run macOS. Heck, it should have something to differentiate it from the last model!
I'll still recommend Macs for my friends and family, but will likely look towards something which is cheaper, has better hardware, and has a fucking escape key for my next purchase.
Since I'll be departing from macOS and Messenger.app, I'll be opening the door to Android for my mobile when I make this switch too.
After being an Apple "Loyalist" for over 15 years, I recently sold my rMBP and built a desktop (i7 4790k, GTX 1080, 16Gb DDR3 @ 2933Mhz). It was by far the best hardware decision I have ever made. Building the system was an absolute blast. Plus, I now have an extremely powerful PC with first class Linux support, tons of I/O ports, and no vendor lock in. The best part is it cost me about 1/3 of the price of a (maxed-out) Mac.
As for portability, I bought a ARM Chromebook and installed Xubuntu. I also have an iPad and iPhone. The three get the job done.
The toughest part of leaving OS X was knowing I was also leaving hobby OS X and iOS development. And homebrew. Man, I will miss homebrew.
I am puzzled about missing homebrew..
You said you are installing Xubuntu, which comes with an excellent package manager with less issued than a brew user is likely to run into.
I was in a similar place but ended up getting a MacBook in addition to the custom PC. Most of my day-to-day work just feels more efficient with the Mac but I realized that it didn't make sense to rely on a laptop for gaming, video encoding, and media serving. I still love the Mac for Final Cut and all that, but I just had to change my workflow a little and now I get the best of both worlds.
This is what I did, never been happier. My current desktop is the most used and useful possession I've ever had.
I don't have a Chromebook, but seriously considering it if I can use Dropbox and a terminal on it for dev.
I still have a MBP for work, but it has become a chore to use especially with Sierra breaking everything (iCloud is now incapable of working with our company's security software or something)
Out of curiosity, if you are such a OS X/homebrew fan, why not try a Hackintosh setup?
I don't know if you can get a dual-boot working well with OS X, but worst case scenario you can have a HD for each OS (after all, you have a desktop now and no longer a notebook) and boot the Linux disk in case the Hackintosh starts to show any signs of trouble.
After 15 years of doing so, I can no longer tell people that the quality of Apple's products are worth the cost.
I waited three years to upgrade from my late-2013 MBP and I see no improvements of value in the new version.
The new MBPs have seemingly worse battery life, the RAM is the same, ports I use every day are gone, and now their "portable" laptop requires you to carry around a bunch of adapters and wires. The touch bar is a naked marketing ploy. Might as well be straight out of the mid-2000s Microsoft playbook.
I work at a "unicorn" and I can tell you that the majority of developers eligible for new machines are delaying upgrades or getting a Surface. I'd do the same if not for homebrew.
I feel the same about their phone line. I've been praying my iPhone 5 continues to last because I have no interest in paying more money for their flimsier successors and then paying a tax to buy new headphones.
I am also a shareholder and am quite concerned. The Apple Watch is a joke. Their desktop machines, monitors and routers are stale, obsolete and overpriced.
Usually I like to give them the benefit of the doubt, but it's clear they have lost their way and the marketers have won. What is their leadership thinking? How long until talent starts to migrate out?
I'm in the same boat. I've used and loved Apple products for the better part of a decade. Used to tune in to Steve Jobs doing his keynotes. Got excited about everything they launched. Maybe that fades with age, I'm almost in my 30s now. But, I just don't care anymore. In fact, almost every new Apple product does the opposite of what I want. In my day job I do consulting on Natural Language Processing and Machine Learning. And sometimes that involves CUDA. There are no Apple solutions with Nvidia cards. I'm an avid hobby photographer, the lack of storage space on these devices make me cringe. A single RAW from my dSLR easily takes 20 megabytes, do a day of shooting and I ramp up gigabytes of data. At night, I'm a hobby astronomer and play with astrophotography, this requires a lot of IO. Often I have 7 to 8 USB devices attached via various hubs. This works fine on my 3 year old Macbook Pro … the reports from flaky IO, even if you use their branded adapters, make me really reluctant to upgrade. That stuff is hard enough without having to deal with dodgy transfers or incompatible hubs. For some of this I've started using the cloud and bare metal servers in a rack … but it's not a proper substitute for doing it in a train with flaky wifi. And it drastically adds to the latency of my iterations. I realize I'm a minority, but I once honestly believed that Apple catered to my needs, that it would provide me with the best possible hardware to achieve my hobbies and professional goals. No longer so, not by a long shot.
For me, there's still no alternative. And I also will not recommend anything but a Mac to friends and family. They just have the best personal computer on the market, period.
Out of all the devices I've ever owned, my Apple devices have had the most hardware failures. My iPhone 4S's headphone jack stopped working. I bought a replacement and installed it myself
(which was a nightmare) but it was still broken. Turns out the logic board had an issue and replacing that is hundreds of dollars. My Macbook Pro 2010's hard drive cable failed. New one was $50.
I've never had any hardware issues with my PCs or Android phones. Sure, they arguably have more software issues, but those are "free" for me to fix.
Apple may be a good fit for some people, but it's too expensive for my blood. I'm not paying $1500 for a laptop only to shell out another $50 a year later for a hard drive cable. That's bullcrap considering my $150 chromebook has been running for 4 years now with 0 issues.
This response would've been exactly what I'd say like a year ago. The thing is that while a mac has in history delivered a better experience I'm not quite sure that's still the case. If you're buying premium hardware for a windows machine you'll still get a very stabile workstation.
I think it's just a tool in a toolbox and that your personal choice should depends on what you're using it for. Actually, hadn't it been for xcode being macOS only, i'd probably be on a linux machine right now, and if I worked more with 3D modelling I'd be on a windows machine due to the better availability of hardware/software.
Yeah, I don't want to switch for the same reasons, but this will be the first time I've actively resented buying a Mac. I've always understood that I'd pay premium prices for premium quality, but with the new MacBook Pro, I feel like my allegiance to MacOS is being exploited. They're simply too expensive, especially if, like me, you like in the U.K. or Europe.
I agree, and for me it all comes down to the OS. I've tried using other computers and operating systems, but as a software developer, my income and livelihood depend on me being able to produce code and do so efficiently. I'm more than willing to spend $2500 on a computer, one that I will one day be able to sell for ~$1000 if my past experiences hold true in the future, that works smoothly without hiccups and has a pristine top of the line OS that works seamlessly with all of the programs I run.
I've tried Linux and like it, but some things just do not run the same as on my Mac.
I've also tried Windows recently and the OS just feels gross, slow, and buggy after working with macOS and Linux.
>> And I also will not recommend anything but a Mac to friends and family. They just have the best personal computer on the market, period.
Shouldn't you at least ask what your friends and family intend to do with their computer?
Macs are great in general, but they're not great at everything, so you shouldn't just give a blanket recommendation for a Mac without considering how it's going to be used.
And that's the problem. I do want to move away from MacOS but I don't see anything better yet. And there are a lot of useful apps unique to Apple's ecosystem and iCloud. Well, looks like I'm knee-deep in a vendor lock-in.
Not really, Microsoft has build some good and affordable machines. Had it been only to Mac, computers would wouldn't have reached the mass market. Same with iPhones.
As a Mac Loyalist I don't feel at all alienated. I am not merely a consumer and my life is more than the computer I use. I don't need or want constant attention. I think what they've been doing it great. Frankly I'm more annoying with the bloggers and media with their constant bullying of Apple. The iPhone 7 had just been announced and they were already speculating what the iPhone 8 was going to be. WTF? How about we give it some time before we start down that road.
> For a 2016 MacBook update, some Apple engineers wanted to add a Touch ID fingerprint scanner and a second USB-C port (which would have made some power users happy)
"power users" is humorous here, considering an additional port would allow a literal power cable and a peripheral.
Honestly I think the communal upset at the new MBP (personified by sensationalist headlines like the one here) are just blown way out of proportion. Am I floored by the new tech and software that Apple is pouring into their computer hardware? Nope (still 16 GB of RAM???). It is still the best option out there? Absolutely. Not trashing everything else out there, there is plenty to love. But the MBP still takes the cake. Here's the biggest reason why: workflow.
I have honestly never once seen a professional Windows or Linux (please gods don't think I am ragging on either) run so many programs as the professional Mac user. By 'professional' I mean people working in a professional, tech-oriented profession. I am used to keeping a dozen programs running, all the time. No matter what. Because why not? Photo editing software, Docker machines, 8 terminals/interactive programming environments, prototype ML training pipelines, local servers, MS products, various text editors and IDEs, Matlab, Mathematica, 100 Chrome tabs, some dev Safari pages, mail programs, Remote Desktop sessions, virtual machines, and whatever else I might need. Seriously. Who does that? My Windows coworkers all still have 1 to 2 things open at once, and routinely shut down their computers overnight. The startup to any task is about 100x longer than me and my always-ready MBP running coworkers. I can't remember the last time I actually turned my computer off. I also notice that my coworkers with MBPs get about 2 years more usable time out of them. Plus, my virtual machines run Windows specific software (STK, SDT, etc) faster and with less fuss than any of my coworkers' laptops.
The MBP hardware and software could be better, but the combo seems to make second nature the levels of productivity and multitasking that other users don't even know to dream of. My point isn't that the maximum capability is necessarily higher on the MBP, but that the median is leagues higher than on other machines. For that reason I don't see myself switching anytime soon.
Background: I am an Aerospace Engineer (becoming a full-on software developer), professional photographer, and generally demanding computer user.
Apple clearly did make major investments in the Mac, it’s just that their investments were not even relevant to most Mac users, and not even apparent to everyone else.
For instance, there is clearly extensive support for Touch Bar in many built-in Mac Apps, and the API that was created just for this one device is impressive. And yet, to see this extensive support for Touch Bar, you often have to select a “Customize Touch Bar…” command! The defaults expose very little, making the Touch Bar appear far less helpful than it could be. Also, it is really questionable to distract so many software teams to support this one feature, which probably kept all of those teams from implementing more obvious improvements that people actually asked for.
If I were managing this and I could see that hardware was going to be delayed, I would consider shifting more resources into the macOS to develop a series of “awesome” new features (heck, make this the year that you develop a real Finder). That way, although you’re announcing modest improvements to hardware, you can still say “look at all this great new stuff!” and boost the platform. Instead, they developed extensive software that a tiny fraction of their Macs can even use, while simultaneously putting it in a product that few people want to buy, further limiting its usefulness.
What is going on with Apple and management? It seems like they are struggling to put enough manpower behind their many different hardware (MacBook, iPhone, iPad, Mac Pro, etc) and software (iOS, MacOS, tvOS, pro software, etc) to make sure they stay up to date, but I'm not sure why they aren't just throwing more manpower at it.
Honestly, a team that did nothing but update the MacPro every few months with the latest hardware can't cost that much, especially compared to Apple's coffers. Unless they are so blinded by the need to have huge margins. They don't need to change the industrial design for every iteration.
I'm just confused as to why they aren't committing more of their resources towards making their products better, instead, they seem to be hamstrung by a lack of manpower and engineers.
The big problem with Apples professional lineup is it's lack of GPU upgrades and power. Along with supporting the GPU manufactures by adopting standards and improving them.
I'm tired of them and others blaming intel. x86 is no longer where huge increases in computing power will really come from-- we all clearly see this due to the laws of physics. Parallelizing computation for all its problems, is the future, and GPUs are dominating in this area. From video rendering, machine learning... and I'm sure most of us would drool over a web server that could use a GPU to speed up requests or a compiler that would use it to speed up compilation.
But GPUs are "not apple," because GPUs are not thin and need to be replaceable. This is antithetical to their whole desktop division.
This glaring blind spot is one of the many reasons I'm a depressed mac user these days. If I want to do cutting edge things, I cannot do them on a mac. Imagine how good the new MBP would be with a GTX 1080 in it? Or a Mac Pro with two Titan X Pascal cards? A Mac mini that supported even one full size graphics card. The iMac? Well that's a relic (in my humble opinion) but the all-in-one does still have a niche it serves.
Also, the fact Apple continuously and blatantly ignores gaming on the Mac this will likely be true. Because gamers also upgrade more aggressively than most desktop users and they help drive innovation as a result. Gaming on the Mac is still a joke. Ports are often late, poorly done, and underperform compared to their PC brethren. I'd rather game on Linux than Mac (no offense to my Linux using brothers and sisters) but I think that's crazy.
I said this once before. What Apple needs to do is make the mac lineup based modular components. E.g. "Here is a box you can slide a video card into ('made for mac if course' with approval to make sure driver hell doesn't happen like Windoes) it then can fit into a Mac mini, iMac, or multiple of them into the Mac Pro. Same for PCI cards in general. This then makes things more user friendly, power users then can upgrade again, and the 3rd party industry can start making for mac.
There are plenty of other ways to innovate-- I'd love a dual socket Mac Pro like the old G4 towers. M2 support. Not looking like a trash can (okay I'm just being cheeky now so I'll stop)...
It's not that innovation can't happen on the desktop it's that Apple isn't, to use their own words, "brave enough to."
I went and looked at the 13 inch MacBook pro and I was glad I bought my XPS 13.
It is of the size of a 12 inch laptop (because of the thin bezel design), can charge off a battery pack, can play DOTA 2 , has a QHD touchscreen, and has upgradable nvme SSD . The XPS 15 has upgradable ram as well.
Both these laptops are much cheaper than the MacBook.
I truly fail to see why you would pay more for the MacBook pro. Yes osx is brilliant - but so is Fedora 25 or Windows 10. Choose your poison.
My new MacBook Pro finally arrived yesterday and I'm feeling pretty underwhelmed to be honest. Don't get me wrong, it's a genuinely beautiful piece of art; every line, every curve is beautiful, the screen is utterly mindblowing, it's blazing fast and responsive, only having USB-C ports hasn't been any sort of impediment whatsoever, and Sierra is a great OS.
But overall, it just feels like it's going to be a complete chore to get accustomed to the horrific keyboard and the ridiculously large trackpad, the Touch Bar is actually pretty useless as far as my workflow is concerned, and not having a physical escape key is a lot more disorienting than I expected it to be.
My day-to-day processes rely on me being fast and proficient with the way I interact with my machine and every time I have to look down at the keyboard just to figure out where the fuck my fingers are or adjust my hands because my palms keep drifting over the touchpad or fumble around for the escape key, I lose focus for a millisecond and my flow gets ruined.
Fortunately I've got two weeks to figure out if I can adjust before it becomes too late to return the machine to Apple for a refund, so we'll see.
Right now, though, I paid well over $4,000 AUD for this thing and I'm not entirely sure why.
[+] [-] beat|9 years ago|reply
It would cost me $3000 to replace it with a computer that is not significantly more powerful, has a smaller screen and less I/O functionality, and would be incompatible with my audio interface unless I daisy-chain multiple adapters to get Firewire. Fuck that, as long as possible.
This week, my mother's crappy Windows computer died, and I bought her a Chromebook. It was great! I'm now seriously considering getting a Chromebook for myself for day-to-day web browsing and such, and retiring the MBP to music and photos only. If I can figure out how to run Vagrant on one, I'll probably switch for development, too (or maybe I'll just start paying for a cloud-based dev environment).
Meanwhile, I keep having computer envy for a friend's MS Surface Pro. It's the first time I've ever looked longingly from a MacBook to a Windows machine! But frankly, it does things my Mac doesn't do, and the build quality is on par.
Someone please tell Apple than when you need to hold a press conference to convince people you're committed to your product, you're not committed to your product.
[+] [-] _ph_|9 years ago|reply
A computer like the Mini should get yearly updates - and there is no good reason to solder in the memory. While it kept the very same design, it went from a quad-core i7 to a dual-core, with fixed memory. Which then stopped to be upgraded.
The versatile Mac Pro got replaced with the current can-like design, limiting the choices and then never got upgraded. If you make a machine which cannot be user-upgraded, please upgrade it every year. There is no good reason, there is no option for the current NVidia or AMD cards available.
The iMac is still one of the better offerings - I got the 5k after the last refresh. However, while this gives you the fastest CPU, it only offers mobile graphics performance. There is no good reason why its internals, especially the drive bay are not user-accessible. While having a gorgeous display, why for all its expensiveness does it not offer any kind of video-in? If it had the ability to accept HDMI or DisplayPort input and display them in a special application window, that would be just great.
Especially, if Apple does not focus on the desktop, why are they so reluctant to sell a more traditional desktop machine? Where the user can change the hardware, if Apple cannot be bothered to do it?
All of this just adds up - and while power users in the pre-can age had at least an expensive but powerful alternative, this does not longer exist. And the other choices also get more and more limited. So it should not come as a surprise, when even the most faithful supporters get frustrated.
[+] [-] dashundchen|9 years ago|reply
These are machines meant to sit on a desk. Who cares about shaving off few centimeters of desk space if means you can't replace your RAM or hard disk or video card with off the shelf parts?
I find this both anti-user and environmentally unfriendly.
[+] [-] matthewmacleod|9 years ago|reply
The MacBook is fine – the new models are quite expensive, and I'm sure having to carry some dongles could be annoying, but it's a lovely machine and there are obvious reasons and long-term benefits for those choices. I'll definitely consider purchasing one when the next refresh allows the processor and memory options to be bumped a bit. It's a bit disappointing the the Mac Pro or Mac Mini haven't seen updates, though I expect that's just down to insufficient sales to justify it.
The software stack is fine too – I've had minimal problems through multiple machines and macOS versions, and everything seems to be incrementally improving. Meanwhile, I get a pretty good UNIX environment and a pretty good GUI. Cloud services (calendars, reminders, keychains etc.) seem to work pretty reliably, and there are lots of little features that generally work well.
I just can't help but feel it's all a little overblown. Sure, look at the alternatives – a nice Dell running Linux, or a Surface or whatever – and if they suit your requirements better, cool! But I just can't see the abrupt, precipitous nosedive that seems to be the current narrative around Apple.
[+] [-] will_hughes|9 years ago|reply
- so many dongles required (ethernet, Adapters to HDMI, DVI, etc, sdcard readers, USB C to USB A, and another one to get their iPhone to connect) - some of them need to be genuine Apple to get decent performance, and those are all hideously expensive.
- lack of ram (tops out at 16GB even on 15" model)
- not the best battery life
All of this seems to have been sacrificed in the name of thinness.
Folks who wanted thin could already get that with the Air / Non-Pro variants.
[+] [-] hyperbovine|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wklauss|9 years ago|reply
Interestingly enough, Surfaces are actually pretty expensive, especially if you try to upgrade SSD and RAM. Yet, somehow, there doesn't seem to be a big outrage over this. Most of the limitations of the MacBooks, as far as I can tell, seems to come from the fact that Intel processors simply have not advanced much in the last couple of years.
[+] [-] rdw|9 years ago|reply
Meanwhile, one guy I know bought a new Windows laptop to replace his flaky older one. On the new computer, audio doesn't work. Programs load slowly (~10 minutes to start up software that takes 10 seconds for me). It turned out the flakiness of the old laptop wasn't its age or power, it was the software. Lots of folks have stories like this. There's still a huge amount of uncertainty in that world.
[+] [-] scentedmeat|9 years ago|reply
True, for Macbooks, they are fine. For MacBook Pros however, they are disappointing. They really added nothing, and just took away. And then raised the price.
[+] [-] evo_9|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pfranz|9 years ago|reply
I also feel like recently they've been jumping in, redesigning and dumbing stuff down, then abandoning it. Disk Utility was fine. Now I have to use the command line or third-party apps for common things. Mac Pro is another example. I'd say Aperture to Photos is another example.
I was at the Apple Store today and looked at the new Macbook Pros. Not only is magsafe gone, the LED on magsafe let you know if it was charging and if it was full is gone. I wouldn't care if it was a special USB-C cable that only Apple sold or put it on the chassis. A button that lights up half a dozen LEDs to let you know approximately how empty your battery is no longer there either. Both of those are things were really nice to have. I also really dislike the keyboard. Every single Apple laptop I've bought I've had to replace or upgraded RAM, hard drive, and battery. It sucks when you have a minor issue and your only option is to "replace the logic board." The iPhone or Apple Watch doesn't even come with a USB-C cable. That's quite a few regressions and I'm skeptical if the new things compensate.
I think USB-C is an inevitability. I think their problem was holding out so long for new Macbook Pros caused two problems; the expectations were too high because of the wait and they dropped too many ports too quickly for pros. There wouldn't be as large of an outcry about the max RAM if the release from 6 months ago had the same issue or if I could just buy last year's model with 2 USB-C ports and 2 USB-A.
Sadly, I don't see anything I like better not made by Apple yet. My plan is to buy a newer, used Macbook Pro and hope I can make the jump at some future update. I'm sure the current laptops are great as-is for many people.
[+] [-] delegate|9 years ago|reply
Apple's flagship IDE, XCode, is also lagging behind, at least when talking about C++ development, but even Swift doesn't get too much love it seems.
Having used it since at least version 5, XCode 8 has been a frustrating experience for me starting from day one, when it defaulted to Swift version 3.0 and so broke all of the existing Swift projects and dependencies from CocoaPods / Carthage.
Me and thousands of devs had to waste hours if not days just to build our projects - with no way to downgrade to previous XCode version.
After that, I constantly struggle with syntax highlighting, unusable code completion, broken navigation and so on.
And that's for Swift ! Ok, my project also has Objective-C++ and C++ code, but all of them are broken beyond frustrating.
Sometimes the "comment/uncomment block" feature just stops working and the only fix is to run a magical sudo command and then restart your mac.
I've revived an older Windows 7 machine just so I could compile my C++ lib on Windows. Visual Studio 2015 + Visual Assist, which I haven't used in years, was a revelation.
I ended up refactoring most of my C++ code on that 7-year old machine and frankly it felt very good that I didn't have to fight the development environment, like I do on my $2500 MacBook pro.
Until then, I didn't even realise how unproductive XCode made me in C++.
So yeah, I'm already thinking about a 32GB of RAM, nVidia 1070 GPU, 17" monitor laptop. It costs like a Macbook pro, but punches a stronger punch at the expense of portability.
I can justify all the gaming and VR that I'll do on it with the fact that it runs Visual Studio well...
I wrote this to vent but also with the hope that someone at Apple is reading these comments and hopefully something will change soon.
[+] [-] deedubaya|9 years ago|reply
If creatives are going to pay a premium for a Mac, there should be something to differentiate it between the competition besides the privilege to run macOS. Heck, it should have something to differentiate it from the last model!
I'll still recommend Macs for my friends and family, but will likely look towards something which is cheaper, has better hardware, and has a fucking escape key for my next purchase.
Since I'll be departing from macOS and Messenger.app, I'll be opening the door to Android for my mobile when I make this switch too.
[+] [-] autoreleasepool|9 years ago|reply
As for portability, I bought a ARM Chromebook and installed Xubuntu. I also have an iPad and iPhone. The three get the job done.
The toughest part of leaving OS X was knowing I was also leaving hobby OS X and iOS development. And homebrew. Man, I will miss homebrew.
[+] [-] fooker|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dkonofalski|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] elliotec|9 years ago|reply
I don't have a Chromebook, but seriously considering it if I can use Dropbox and a terminal on it for dev.
I still have a MBP for work, but it has become a chore to use especially with Sierra breaking everything (iCloud is now incapable of working with our company's security software or something)
[+] [-] htaunay|9 years ago|reply
I don't know if you can get a dual-boot working well with OS X, but worst case scenario you can have a HD for each OS (after all, you have a desktop now and no longer a notebook) and boot the Linux disk in case the Hackintosh starts to show any signs of trouble.
[+] [-] madenine|9 years ago|reply
First non-mac computer that wasn't supplied by work or school, couldn't be happier.
[+] [-] Raphmedia|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pmyjavec|9 years ago|reply
You're also spot on, building computers and upgrading them is a lot of fun.
[+] [-] kilroy123|9 years ago|reply
Sadly, I live abroad and move a lot, so not an option.
[+] [-] vintageseltzer|9 years ago|reply
I waited three years to upgrade from my late-2013 MBP and I see no improvements of value in the new version.
The new MBPs have seemingly worse battery life, the RAM is the same, ports I use every day are gone, and now their "portable" laptop requires you to carry around a bunch of adapters and wires. The touch bar is a naked marketing ploy. Might as well be straight out of the mid-2000s Microsoft playbook.
I work at a "unicorn" and I can tell you that the majority of developers eligible for new machines are delaying upgrades or getting a Surface. I'd do the same if not for homebrew.
I feel the same about their phone line. I've been praying my iPhone 5 continues to last because I have no interest in paying more money for their flimsier successors and then paying a tax to buy new headphones.
I am also a shareholder and am quite concerned. The Apple Watch is a joke. Their desktop machines, monitors and routers are stale, obsolete and overpriced.
Usually I like to give them the benefit of the doubt, but it's clear they have lost their way and the marketers have won. What is their leadership thinking? How long until talent starts to migrate out?
[+] [-] anon1253|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] scrrr|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ythn|9 years ago|reply
I've never had any hardware issues with my PCs or Android phones. Sure, they arguably have more software issues, but those are "free" for me to fix.
Apple may be a good fit for some people, but it's too expensive for my blood. I'm not paying $1500 for a laptop only to shell out another $50 a year later for a hard drive cable. That's bullcrap considering my $150 chromebook has been running for 4 years now with 0 issues.
[+] [-] cupofjoakim|9 years ago|reply
I think it's just a tool in a toolbox and that your personal choice should depends on what you're using it for. Actually, hadn't it been for xcode being macOS only, i'd probably be on a linux machine right now, and if I worked more with 3D modelling I'd be on a windows machine due to the better availability of hardware/software.
[+] [-] Veen|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kris-s|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dabit3|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] slantyyz|9 years ago|reply
Shouldn't you at least ask what your friends and family intend to do with their computer?
Macs are great in general, but they're not great at everything, so you shouldn't just give a blanket recommendation for a Mac without considering how it's going to be used.
[+] [-] Nekorosu|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sidcool|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] billoday|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] anexprogrammer|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] optimuspaul|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] elliotec|9 years ago|reply
Think of how absurd it is that you can't even plug in your new iPhone 7 into your new Macbook Pro.
[+] [-] 1_2__3|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] href|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|9 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] FLGMwt|9 years ago|reply
"power users" is humorous here, considering an additional port would allow a literal power cable and a peripheral.
[+] [-] zachd1_618|9 years ago|reply
I have honestly never once seen a professional Windows or Linux (please gods don't think I am ragging on either) run so many programs as the professional Mac user. By 'professional' I mean people working in a professional, tech-oriented profession. I am used to keeping a dozen programs running, all the time. No matter what. Because why not? Photo editing software, Docker machines, 8 terminals/interactive programming environments, prototype ML training pipelines, local servers, MS products, various text editors and IDEs, Matlab, Mathematica, 100 Chrome tabs, some dev Safari pages, mail programs, Remote Desktop sessions, virtual machines, and whatever else I might need. Seriously. Who does that? My Windows coworkers all still have 1 to 2 things open at once, and routinely shut down their computers overnight. The startup to any task is about 100x longer than me and my always-ready MBP running coworkers. I can't remember the last time I actually turned my computer off. I also notice that my coworkers with MBPs get about 2 years more usable time out of them. Plus, my virtual machines run Windows specific software (STK, SDT, etc) faster and with less fuss than any of my coworkers' laptops.
The MBP hardware and software could be better, but the combo seems to make second nature the levels of productivity and multitasking that other users don't even know to dream of. My point isn't that the maximum capability is necessarily higher on the MBP, but that the median is leagues higher than on other machines. For that reason I don't see myself switching anytime soon.
Background: I am an Aerospace Engineer (becoming a full-on software developer), professional photographer, and generally demanding computer user.
[+] [-] makecheck|9 years ago|reply
For instance, there is clearly extensive support for Touch Bar in many built-in Mac Apps, and the API that was created just for this one device is impressive. And yet, to see this extensive support for Touch Bar, you often have to select a “Customize Touch Bar…” command! The defaults expose very little, making the Touch Bar appear far less helpful than it could be. Also, it is really questionable to distract so many software teams to support this one feature, which probably kept all of those teams from implementing more obvious improvements that people actually asked for.
If I were managing this and I could see that hardware was going to be delayed, I would consider shifting more resources into the macOS to develop a series of “awesome” new features (heck, make this the year that you develop a real Finder). That way, although you’re announcing modest improvements to hardware, you can still say “look at all this great new stuff!” and boost the platform. Instead, they developed extensive software that a tiny fraction of their Macs can even use, while simultaneously putting it in a product that few people want to buy, further limiting its usefulness.
[+] [-] spott|9 years ago|reply
Honestly, a team that did nothing but update the MacPro every few months with the latest hardware can't cost that much, especially compared to Apple's coffers. Unless they are so blinded by the need to have huge margins. They don't need to change the industrial design for every iteration.
I'm just confused as to why they aren't committing more of their resources towards making their products better, instead, they seem to be hamstrung by a lack of manpower and engineers.
[+] [-] concinds|9 years ago|reply
True, the Apple-lost-their-way criticism used to be mostly reserved to junk media outlets.
But that changed. The new Mac Pro and Final Cut 10 marked the beginning of that. Apple has changed, and so did their target audience.
[+] [-] rubyn00bie|9 years ago|reply
I'm tired of them and others blaming intel. x86 is no longer where huge increases in computing power will really come from-- we all clearly see this due to the laws of physics. Parallelizing computation for all its problems, is the future, and GPUs are dominating in this area. From video rendering, machine learning... and I'm sure most of us would drool over a web server that could use a GPU to speed up requests or a compiler that would use it to speed up compilation.
But GPUs are "not apple," because GPUs are not thin and need to be replaceable. This is antithetical to their whole desktop division.
This glaring blind spot is one of the many reasons I'm a depressed mac user these days. If I want to do cutting edge things, I cannot do them on a mac. Imagine how good the new MBP would be with a GTX 1080 in it? Or a Mac Pro with two Titan X Pascal cards? A Mac mini that supported even one full size graphics card. The iMac? Well that's a relic (in my humble opinion) but the all-in-one does still have a niche it serves.
Also, the fact Apple continuously and blatantly ignores gaming on the Mac this will likely be true. Because gamers also upgrade more aggressively than most desktop users and they help drive innovation as a result. Gaming on the Mac is still a joke. Ports are often late, poorly done, and underperform compared to their PC brethren. I'd rather game on Linux than Mac (no offense to my Linux using brothers and sisters) but I think that's crazy.
I said this once before. What Apple needs to do is make the mac lineup based modular components. E.g. "Here is a box you can slide a video card into ('made for mac if course' with approval to make sure driver hell doesn't happen like Windoes) it then can fit into a Mac mini, iMac, or multiple of them into the Mac Pro. Same for PCI cards in general. This then makes things more user friendly, power users then can upgrade again, and the 3rd party industry can start making for mac.
There are plenty of other ways to innovate-- I'd love a dual socket Mac Pro like the old G4 towers. M2 support. Not looking like a trash can (okay I'm just being cheeky now so I'll stop)...
It's not that innovation can't happen on the desktop it's that Apple isn't, to use their own words, "brave enough to."
... What happened to the crazy ones?
[+] [-] ndesaulniers|9 years ago|reply
Like Razer has?
[+] [-] intopieces|9 years ago|reply
https://9to5mac.com/2016/11/09/2016-macbook-pro-sales/
The article linked here doesn't name any sources, just vague "people familiar withs" and "inside sources."
[+] [-] sandGorgon|9 years ago|reply
It is of the size of a 12 inch laptop (because of the thin bezel design), can charge off a battery pack, can play DOTA 2 , has a QHD touchscreen, and has upgradable nvme SSD . The XPS 15 has upgradable ram as well. Both these laptops are much cheaper than the MacBook.
I truly fail to see why you would pay more for the MacBook pro. Yes osx is brilliant - but so is Fedora 25 or Windows 10. Choose your poison.
[+] [-] neotek|9 years ago|reply
But overall, it just feels like it's going to be a complete chore to get accustomed to the horrific keyboard and the ridiculously large trackpad, the Touch Bar is actually pretty useless as far as my workflow is concerned, and not having a physical escape key is a lot more disorienting than I expected it to be.
My day-to-day processes rely on me being fast and proficient with the way I interact with my machine and every time I have to look down at the keyboard just to figure out where the fuck my fingers are or adjust my hands because my palms keep drifting over the touchpad or fumble around for the escape key, I lose focus for a millisecond and my flow gets ruined.
Fortunately I've got two weeks to figure out if I can adjust before it becomes too late to return the machine to Apple for a refund, so we'll see.
Right now, though, I paid well over $4,000 AUD for this thing and I'm not entirely sure why.