Honestly to me the worst thing about the new MacBook Pro isn't that there are no legacy ports on it or that the battery may be smaller, it's that the new all-things-for-all-people ports it has are confusing.
The ports are all Thunderbolt 3 ports, which I believe by definition means they are USB 3.1 ports as well. But some devices out in the world have USB-C ports that are not Thunderbolt 3 compatible. No longer can you tell what sort of devices will work with a port by its physical shape. For instance, I have a Windows desktop machine with a single USB-C port on the back, but it's not a Thunderbolt 3 port. So while I could physically plug in a Thunderbolt 3-only device, it wouldn't function at all.
Thunderbolt 3 is backward compatible with Thunderbolt 1/2 via an adapter, but the Thunderbolt 2 adapter that Apple sells does not function identically to a Thunderbolt 2 port on previous generation Macs - e.g. you cannot plug a Mini DisplayPort display into it. Thunderbolt displays do work with it though.
Also, the lower-end 12" MacBook that Apple sells with a single USB-C port is NOT a Thunderbolt 3 port, so you have to know which devices that have identical connectors will work with it. Apple makes the distinction on its peripherals by screenprinting a little Thunderbolt logo onto the cable/connector housing. The messaging was reinforced with corresponding Thunderbolt logos next to the connectors on previous iterations of the MacBooks - making it obvious that these ports were not just Mini DisplayPorts but also Thunderbolt ports - but the new 2016 models don't appear to have anything like that on the hardware.
Additionally, there are USB-C cables and Thunderbolt 3 cables. Thunderbolt 3 cables are apparently higher-spec and will always work as USB-C cables, but the opposite is not necessarily true.
I've gotten myself into a stupid situation where I have purchased something like 4 adapters that don't accomplish what I thought they would when I bought them.
USB-C to DisplayPort -> DisplayPort to HDMI -> Monitor - doesn't work
USB-C to DisplayPort -> DisplayPort to DVI-D -> Monitor - doesn't work
USB-C to Ethernet - doesn't work
I'm actually planning to just go to Best Buy today and try to find anything that will let me plug this into my old monitor here even if it has to be the official USB-C to VGA cable from Apple since I don't have time to wait for shipping at this point.
I suppose this is my own fault but somehow I've never had this kind of problem in ~20 years of using a computer.
Edit: There are also currently very few resources about compatibility between all these new adapters and Apple hasn't done anything to help in their spec info so it's really just a guessing game right now.
Actually it isn't precisely Apple's fault. It's the USB-IFs fault.
USB 3.1 in general is a mess. The spec allows for Alternate Modes, where the port is hardwired on the Motherboard to be able to be switched to deliver DisplayPort, HDMI, MHL, Thunderbolt, and damn near anything else you can figure out how to mux over the port's pins and cheaply demux on the other end of the cable. The best part is no one will actually list what Alternate Modes their laptop or motherboard supports. So if I want a laptop that supports, DisplayPort Alternate Mode with dual monitors, I'm opening support tickets with manufacturers asking "Does your USB-C port run this?"
Apple and Intel simply followed along what with what was already a mess.
> The ports are all Thunderbolt 3 ports, which I believe by definition means they are USB 3.1 ports as well. But some devices out in the world have USB-C ports that are not Thunderbolt 3 compatible. No longer can you tell what sort of devices will work with a port by its physical shape. For instance, I have a Windows desktop machine with a single USB-C port on the back, but it's not a Thunderbolt 3 port. So while I could physically plug in a Thunderbolt 3-only device, it wouldn't function at all.
There is no such thing as a "Thunderbolt 3-only device". Support for USB 3.1 is a part of the Thunderbolt 3 spec, and in your example the Windows machine and the device would talk to one another over USB 3.1.
If you can plug it in, it will work: every device with a standards-compliant USB-C port will work with any other device with a standards-compliant USB-C port. The only question is which underlying protocol will be used; in the worst case, it will be USB 3.1, and if both devices support Thunderbolt 3, it will be something fancier.
Putting everything and the kitchen sink into USB-C was a mistake. I already have a horrible mess of weird cables that aren't interoperable, don't support Superspeed, have current limits, etc.
USB should be one thing and one thing only; a Universal Serial Bus. Can you send video over a serial connection? Great, let's do that instead of using the same physical connector for 85 different incompatible video cable designs that may or may not work with any given device.
USB 1.1 was about the right level of complexity. Maybe a bit too high. Since then, we have gone off the rails. It's no longer reasonable to suspect that anything except super-high-end devices will even bother to support a majority of the things in the USB spec. How many laptops actually support most of the charge profiles? The MacBooks do, but none of my friends' non-mac laptops do. It's a mess.
The speed we have now is great. Let's keep that. But let's also erase all the cruft and bring USB back to the simple, universal protocol it was supposed to be.
Your description reminds me of the '90's Apple that had so many fricking Mac models that ordinary mortals didn't know what to buy. I remember fielding those questions more than once, and only barely having an answer because I frequently browsed the hobbyist and trade press at that time.
200\* Apple became one of a few models choices, each designed to (for something of a premium) deliver a consummate experience within its niche.
Apple buyers -- both professionals and premium-paying consumers -- want something that "just works", and works well.
For Apple to foist the Emotibar on them, before solving these other problems... Back-asswards.
I think it is more a case that ports are USB-C, as Thunderbolt 3 can be used via their alternate mode (thanks to Intel).
Thing is that displayport over thunderbolt used half the bandwidth of thunderbolt to carry displayport signals (raw, not coded on top of thunderbolt). This similarly to how you can use USB-C alternate mode to carry displayport. Thus using thunderbolt over USB-C alternate to carry displayport is superfluous to the extreme.
In practice most people aren't going to have multiple Macbooks, and if that's you you should go to Monoprice and just get different color cables for different types.
I've had mine for a week now, and have been able to use it alongside my late-2014 rMBP, which has been a solid workhorse. I'm starting to notice very subtle preferences for the 2017 model creeping in - after an hour of typing, for example, going back to the old keyboard feels really, really inefficient and antiquated, and my typing rate is lower than on the new rMBP.
I also really enjoy the Touchbar - it hasn't been too intrusive, and binding ESCAPE to Caps Lock has been an acceptable re-configuration for me as a vim user.
Speed: okay, it seems slightly faster than the old machine, but then the old machine is 95% full while new-rMBP is not even 5% full yet, so .. no indexing hassles. (old-rMBP would often become unusable during Spotlight re-indexing..)
All in all, I'm happy with the upgrade - but with one huge big fat caveat: I didn't buy it. My work did. If it weren't for this fact, I'd be very reluctant to upgrade..
> I've had mine for a week now, and have been able to use it alongside my late-2014 rMBP, which has been a solid workhorse. I'm starting to notice very subtle preferences for the 2017 model creeping in - after an hour of typing, for example, going back to the old keyboard feels really, really inefficient and antiquated, and my typing rate is lower than on the new rMBP.
For me it's the EXACT opposite - everytime I return to my 2014, it feel so much better and the strain on my hands is significantly lowered. The new keyboard just doesn't feel right or comfortable even after weeks.
> I also really enjoy the Touchbar - it hasn't been too intrusive, and binding ESCAPE to Caps Lock has been an acceptable re-configuration for me as a vim user.
For me the touchbar is empty 90% of the time. And I can't even put application shortcuts there :/
I like the feel of the keyboard, but I found absolutely no way to orient my fingers over the arrow keys. There is no way tell whether I'm hitting the up arrow or the right shift.
As someone who works with text, it's a deal breaker for me.
This sounds EXACTLY how my impression is after about 2 weeks of non-primary machine use.
!00% agree with the keyboard, I even made a joke about it to my visiting parents yesterday (received no laughs). After working for a few hours on my new machine, jumping back to my old machine definitely feels greasy.
98% agree with touchbar, I wish there was a way to edit the default touchbar view (escape and mini functions). I'd love to have the mini functions maximized so I can have the old hot keys one less click away, but its a minor gripe.
100% agree with speed -- it's been awesome. No worries at all. I don't have as much on my new machine yet but it seems to not get bogged down at all where my last-gen rMPB gets all hot and bothered rather quickly. It also doesn't seem to run as hot, I don't think I've heard a fan kick in yet (it is the winter ;D). I used to run my neural-styles on my last-gen rMBP as it would max at like 60GB (thanks swap!) where my 32GB linux box would tap out at... ~31.5GB. I am dying to run an apple to apple to penquin RNN death match here soon, but... yanno... people need gifts.
RAM -- 16GB is fine, it runs swap off an SSD, life could be A LOT worse. I am not sure how big swap can get but my last machine was touching 60GB under max loads of the RNN.
Touchpad -- it's HUGE and it's AWESOME! I don't have to do that lil finger-shifty maneuver to drag all the way across the screen now. I don't have any palming issues either. It's AMAZING!
Battery -- I saw some weirdness when I first got it, like being stuck at 80% for 3 hours. But it seems to have gotten enough data now to make better calcs on the power remaining. It feels like it lasts a lot longer than my old machine while doing generally the same work (usually local GAE instances, pycharm, chrome, webstorm, bundler watchers, the usual).
Ports -- I got one dongle and have only needed to use it once to test mousewheel events on a standard mouse. It worked great and everything else I plan to upgrade to USB-C and reading the instructions (it's really not THAT confusing guys...)
I am super pumped about my new upgrade and I definitely DID buy this myself (though it's a business write-off I suppose). I was waiting for the next MBP for a new lappy and had plenty of time to make a choice and every other laptop I got my hands on simply didn't have the same build quality or level of standard that this does. I also am not a fan for ultra-do-anything coffee-breath Windows and Linux support is always more trouble than it's worth at times (personally, macOS is my favorite unix-like os flavor by far).
I appreciate the fact that they made the keys on the pro much more clicker than the MacBook. The butterfly keys on them seemed unusable for serious typing, though I've only used them in stores, so perhaps it takes getting used to.
In my experience, spotlight re-indexing mostly happens if you run out of disk space and the OS decides to drop spotlights caches in favor of swap space. If you keep an eye on the size of your swap files (in the /var/vm dir), you can see when things go nuts and take corrective action before the index gets whacked.
>binding ESCAPE to Caps Lock has been an acceptable re-configuration for me as a vim user
I've seen a lot of people say this but I dunno. I'm kind of leery of doing something that would cause me to develop problematic muscle memory when typing on normal keyboards, e.g. on other people's machines. I have enough trouble flipping between Mac and Windows keyboard shortcuts already.
This is an article that (incompletely) summarizes the Consumer Reports article[1]. The reason for the wildly varying performance appears to be due to a bug (presumably) in Safari. They had consistent results with Chrome:
> Once our official testing was done, we experimented by conducting the same battery tests using a Chrome browser, rather than Safari. For this exercise, we ran two trials on each of the laptops, and found battery life to be consistently high on all six runs.
I've been using a 13" MacBook Pro (without Touch Bar) for six weeks now, and have found the battery life very impressive (I use Chrome rather than Safari).
The fact that Apple would ship a version of Safari that so deeply affected the battery of their newest MBP is concerning, and perhaps illustrative of why many MBP afficionados are so upset about the situation.
Wow, I decided to make the switch to Safari when I got my new mbp to optimize for battery life. I guess this is the end of that experiment. Safari devtools are terrible anyway.
The only complaint I really have about the new MBP is the price. MBPs have always been expensive relative to the specs, and I've always been okay with that. But it seems Apple's pushing their margins up even higher and have eliminated more affordable options (e.g., a 15" model without a discrete GPU -- I personally have no need for the GPU, but really wanted the extra screen real estate).
After Apple Care and taxes, I ended up dropping over $3k on my 2016 15" MBP. This makes it the most expensive laptop I've ever owned.
Just a few points that might be of interest:
* Battery life has legitimately been fine for me. I consistently get 8-10 hours of light work (working in the terminal and browser). Despite all the battery life complaints, this is actually the best battery life I've personally gotten on any MBP I've owned.
* I love the trackpad. It's comically large, but I adapted fast, and the palm rejection has been working really well for me.
* The Touch Bar makes sense and is well-implemented. It's not revolutionary and I wouldn't recommend getting the laptop because it has the touch bar. But it's a legitimate (if small) step forward in usability. It is not without its compromises (e.g., no physical escape key), but I've found I adapted to the compromises very quickly.
* The form factor is incredibly portable for a 15" laptop.
* The port situation isn't a big deal for me personally because I don't use this laptop as a desktop replacement and rarely have any need for the ports.
* I'm fine with the keyboard. It's very satisfyingly clicky, and I can type very fast on it, just as fast as any other keyboard. I wouldn't say I prefer it to more traditional keyboards; it's not a big deal to me either way.
I think price is the only real complaint I have as well. I've only bought Macbook Airs because they were thin and light even though I wanted the power and connectivity of Macbook Pros. This is the first MBP that I want to buy.
By the time I'm ready to replace my 2012 MBA I expect the price will have fallen.
Honestly, the reporting in TFA is insightful, pointing out that Apple got complaints about battery life and instead of addressing them, chose to paper over it. Seems very relevant and, to borrow a phrase, wiggles its eyebrows suggestively toward a troubling trend.
> For instance, in a series of three consecutive tests, the 13- inch model with the Touch Bar ran for 16 hours in the first trial, 12.75 hours in the second, and just 3.75 hours in the third. The 13-inch model without the Touch Bar worked for 19.5 hours in one trial but only 4.5 hours in the next. And the numbers for the 15-inch laptop ranged from 18.5 down to 8 hours.
What could possibly the reason for such drastic variations in the same laptop, over a short period of time, when the testing conditions remain consistent?
Saw a 15" in the store the other day. It's the future, just not this particular iteration. The form factor is awesome--my 15" rMBP is like a boat in comparison. Make carrying a 15" as a daily driver much more practical (and the extra screen space is a big step up from 13-14" for getting work done).
I was getting the MBP 2016 13" a couple of days ago; best equipment you can buy in 13", 3300 EUR brutto.
Before (or still) I have a MBPR 13" Late 2015, also with max RAM, max CPU; 2400 brutto until 2 months ago. That is still running on El Capitan, the new one Sierra of course. System was migrated, so simlilar software stack (besides the OS version).
My typical application list looks like: Pycharm, PHPStorm (~3 projects open at a time), Vagrant, Virtualbox, Chrome with many tabs, Firefox with less tabs, minor stuff like Sublime, Terminal windows, iTunes etc.
Besides the critics on keyboard (especially the arrows issue), connection ports (try to buy a good usb c - displayport cable), which i would all consider as "managable".. To me this laptop is a bad joke if I see the battery time and performance.
Given my usage profile, which I think should be handled by the super expensive top model of a "premium company", this laptop does only a minimum (if at all) better performance. The base cpu usage on my older one, having all open and doing nothing ist at 9%. Same thing for the newer one is 13%. There is nothing that works obviously faster, general "snappyness" when working is subjectively worse due to wakeup delays from the OS power optimisation magic.
About the battery time I can only say, that 4hours is max for me at ~80% brightness. I'm also sure that the new MBP drains battery faster, meaning has less runtime (though i cannot provide exact measurements).
As a good thing to say: the display is fantastic and of course it looks nice.
After less than a week this device is not worth its money and does nothing more for me than what I have for roughly 1/3 less money and more than a year old.
It is the JetBrain software. I use IntelliJ with various language plugins. It does a lot of work in the background to provide advanced features like completion, even for dynamic languages like Python.
The problem, of course, is that the new CPUs are optimized to provide better battery life under typical usage. If you've got something running in the background that is constantly re-indexing your source code, then the CPU optimizations aren't going to help you and a smaller battery is still a smaller battery.
Also, a lot of that indexing can take advantage of multiple cores, so the jump to a quad-core proc as in the 15" helps more than the minor boost in clock speed is going to. I'm usually fine with a dual-core processor unless I'm either trying to do big compilations (especially in Scala) or using JetBrains IDEs. God help me if I'm trying to do both.
The error of the MacBook Pro is the 'Pro' part. It's supposedly being marketed to professionals, but optimizing for one thing only, which is thinness. I don't think anyone ever asked for the "old" MacBook Pro to be thinner. Maybe a beefier CPU, maybe a GPU worth something, maybe more battery life. Or more ports. But thinner? They used to have a very good product for that, and that's the Air, which is now neglected.
Apple's product lineup is a mess. Like the time after Steve got kicked out.
Disclaimer: typing this on a 2015 15" MacBook Pro.
Mine is 15", 16GB, 512G, 455 model. I'm a student and use it for programming, checking emails and browsing sites. I program in Java using Eclipse and in Python using Jupyter Notebook. I browse using Safari and keep tabs of time estimates in the Activity Monitor Energy tab.
First 2-3 days I was getting 5 hour estimates. Since then it increased to 8-10 and now has increased to 14.5 hours. I keep it unplugged for 6 hours regularly and the estimates have been consistent thus far with the 14.5. I haven't kept it unplugged more than 6-7 hours but I am not afraid of it running out of juice while I'm out and about. Suits my needs as a student.
Had one for about 10 days, returned it for a variety of factors, but overall, it was a nice machine. But for my workload, I think I'll move to a 2015 if I can get the config I want - should be ~ $1000 cheaper for about 95% of the benefit (some weight, some speed, retina screen, etc). $3700 ($3500 + tax) ended up feeling just a bit too much for the speed/value. Apparently, though, if I wait a bit longer, we might see a 32g model next year?
I'm pretty disappointed by the new mbp and the state of Mac in general for several reasons. I've made pretty significant investments in the Mac ecosystem. I bought a semi pro sound card(uad Apollo 8) tons of software audio related plugins and logic and I don't have a lot of confidence that when it's time to replace my 2014 mbp that there will be a viable Mac option to replace it with. That immediately makes my sound card useless (thunderbolt connection) and unless there's a Windows version of the plugins (most do have this) then I'm out that money as well. I'm already looking at having a dongle if I want to use the new mbp with a thunderbolt connection which feels like a hack. Maybe this seems like first world problems but I bought into Mac on the promise that they truly supported the "pro" community. It's looking more and more like Tim Cook and company have forgotten that.
After seeing the touch bar, I think it's really not all that useful. I would much rather have seen more battery, RAM, faster CPU options, traditional USB and HDMI, magsafe, and more SSD. Basically take the 2014-2015 MacBook Pro and beef it up and I will be very happy.
People say it's selling. Of course it is. Mac still has a near-monopoly on "Unix with good UI." But if they keep doing this, it will erode. Windows is becoming nicer in many ways, MS and other PC hardware is getting better, Linux desktop is steadily improving, etc. The ecosystem never stands still.
I went to a store in order to try one out. I wanted what was in 15" model in a 13" form, but ok - I went out to at least check out the 15" model. Even though I knew it was too big for my needs. What really surprised me was how bad the keyboard was on new models. What's up with that? It feels like a cheap plastic mockup of a keyboard. That turned me off completely. I hope they get their act together within a year and push out new models which are better. I'd buy a 13" version if it had what 15" has inside, but it doesn't. Other laptops look like crap too. Razer (14) is either unavailable in Europe or reading about it and looking at videos makes it look like not suitable for anything - bad battery life and crappy vents (makes for screaming noise and heat down the road). Shame, what would otherwise be a great laptop. Microsoft's Book thing is also semi-unavailable, can't buy it (asked Microsoft, they've said it's not really supported (retail) in Europe - wtf?), with Dell I had nothing but bad experiences so it's a no-go from the start... situation is kind of dire.
> The 13-inch model without the Touch Bar worked for 19.5 hours in one trial but only 4.5 hours in the next.
It worked for nearly twenty hours, when advertised for just "up to 10"?
Presumably whatever bugs led to 4.5 hours can be fixed in software updates (occasionally I find my Mac running at full-CPU due to some boneheaded OSX process).
But if my new laptop has a best-case scenario of nearly 20 hours (and not "minimal brightness while not running anything")... then that's the best recommendation I've heard yet.
I have one. It has usb c. My google pixel has usb c. They don't talk, only charge. I don't understand, USB C is now a bag of hurt. Especially when there are three types of usb c cables.
[+] [-] spilk|9 years ago|reply
The ports are all Thunderbolt 3 ports, which I believe by definition means they are USB 3.1 ports as well. But some devices out in the world have USB-C ports that are not Thunderbolt 3 compatible. No longer can you tell what sort of devices will work with a port by its physical shape. For instance, I have a Windows desktop machine with a single USB-C port on the back, but it's not a Thunderbolt 3 port. So while I could physically plug in a Thunderbolt 3-only device, it wouldn't function at all.
Thunderbolt 3 is backward compatible with Thunderbolt 1/2 via an adapter, but the Thunderbolt 2 adapter that Apple sells does not function identically to a Thunderbolt 2 port on previous generation Macs - e.g. you cannot plug a Mini DisplayPort display into it. Thunderbolt displays do work with it though.
Also, the lower-end 12" MacBook that Apple sells with a single USB-C port is NOT a Thunderbolt 3 port, so you have to know which devices that have identical connectors will work with it. Apple makes the distinction on its peripherals by screenprinting a little Thunderbolt logo onto the cable/connector housing. The messaging was reinforced with corresponding Thunderbolt logos next to the connectors on previous iterations of the MacBooks - making it obvious that these ports were not just Mini DisplayPorts but also Thunderbolt ports - but the new 2016 models don't appear to have anything like that on the hardware.
Additionally, there are USB-C cables and Thunderbolt 3 cables. Thunderbolt 3 cables are apparently higher-spec and will always work as USB-C cables, but the opposite is not necessarily true.
[+] [-] 0x09|9 years ago|reply
USB-C to DisplayPort -> DisplayPort to HDMI -> Monitor - doesn't work
USB-C to DisplayPort -> DisplayPort to DVI-D -> Monitor - doesn't work
USB-C to Ethernet - doesn't work
I'm actually planning to just go to Best Buy today and try to find anything that will let me plug this into my old monitor here even if it has to be the official USB-C to VGA cable from Apple since I don't have time to wait for shipping at this point.
I suppose this is my own fault but somehow I've never had this kind of problem in ~20 years of using a computer.
Edit: There are also currently very few resources about compatibility between all these new adapters and Apple hasn't done anything to help in their spec info so it's really just a guessing game right now.
[+] [-] krinchan|9 years ago|reply
USB 3.1 in general is a mess. The spec allows for Alternate Modes, where the port is hardwired on the Motherboard to be able to be switched to deliver DisplayPort, HDMI, MHL, Thunderbolt, and damn near anything else you can figure out how to mux over the port's pins and cheaply demux on the other end of the cable. The best part is no one will actually list what Alternate Modes their laptop or motherboard supports. So if I want a laptop that supports, DisplayPort Alternate Mode with dual monitors, I'm opening support tickets with manufacturers asking "Does your USB-C port run this?"
Apple and Intel simply followed along what with what was already a mess.
[+] [-] repler|9 years ago|reply
Think they'll wise up and change any of it on the next model?
[+] [-] pash|9 years ago|reply
There is no such thing as a "Thunderbolt 3-only device". Support for USB 3.1 is a part of the Thunderbolt 3 spec, and in your example the Windows machine and the device would talk to one another over USB 3.1.
If you can plug it in, it will work: every device with a standards-compliant USB-C port will work with any other device with a standards-compliant USB-C port. The only question is which underlying protocol will be used; in the worst case, it will be USB 3.1, and if both devices support Thunderbolt 3, it will be something fancier.
[+] [-] wyager|9 years ago|reply
USB should be one thing and one thing only; a Universal Serial Bus. Can you send video over a serial connection? Great, let's do that instead of using the same physical connector for 85 different incompatible video cable designs that may or may not work with any given device.
USB 1.1 was about the right level of complexity. Maybe a bit too high. Since then, we have gone off the rails. It's no longer reasonable to suspect that anything except super-high-end devices will even bother to support a majority of the things in the USB spec. How many laptops actually support most of the charge profiles? The MacBooks do, but none of my friends' non-mac laptops do. It's a mess.
The speed we have now is great. Let's keep that. But let's also erase all the cruft and bring USB back to the simple, universal protocol it was supposed to be.
[+] [-] pasbesoin|9 years ago|reply
200\* Apple became one of a few models choices, each designed to (for something of a premium) deliver a consummate experience within its niche.
Apple buyers -- both professionals and premium-paying consumers -- want something that "just works", and works well.
For Apple to foist the Emotibar on them, before solving these other problems... Back-asswards.
[+] [-] Bud|9 years ago|reply
This isn't a new issue and USB-C is far, far from being the first port type to be ambiguous in this manner.
[+] [-] aljones|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] digi_owl|9 years ago|reply
Thing is that displayport over thunderbolt used half the bandwidth of thunderbolt to carry displayport signals (raw, not coded on top of thunderbolt). This similarly to how you can use USB-C alternate mode to carry displayport. Thus using thunderbolt over USB-C alternate to carry displayport is superfluous to the extreme.
[+] [-] IBM|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mmjaa|9 years ago|reply
I also really enjoy the Touchbar - it hasn't been too intrusive, and binding ESCAPE to Caps Lock has been an acceptable re-configuration for me as a vim user.
Speed: okay, it seems slightly faster than the old machine, but then the old machine is 95% full while new-rMBP is not even 5% full yet, so .. no indexing hassles. (old-rMBP would often become unusable during Spotlight re-indexing..)
All in all, I'm happy with the upgrade - but with one huge big fat caveat: I didn't buy it. My work did. If it weren't for this fact, I'd be very reluctant to upgrade..
[+] [-] izacus|9 years ago|reply
For me it's the EXACT opposite - everytime I return to my 2014, it feel so much better and the strain on my hands is significantly lowered. The new keyboard just doesn't feel right or comfortable even after weeks.
> I also really enjoy the Touchbar - it hasn't been too intrusive, and binding ESCAPE to Caps Lock has been an acceptable re-configuration for me as a vim user.
For me the touchbar is empty 90% of the time. And I can't even put application shortcuts there :/
[+] [-] thought_alarm|9 years ago|reply
I like the feel of the keyboard, but I found absolutely no way to orient my fingers over the arrow keys. There is no way tell whether I'm hitting the up arrow or the right shift.
As someone who works with text, it's a deal breaker for me.
[+] [-] BlakePetersen|9 years ago|reply
!00% agree with the keyboard, I even made a joke about it to my visiting parents yesterday (received no laughs). After working for a few hours on my new machine, jumping back to my old machine definitely feels greasy.
98% agree with touchbar, I wish there was a way to edit the default touchbar view (escape and mini functions). I'd love to have the mini functions maximized so I can have the old hot keys one less click away, but its a minor gripe.
100% agree with speed -- it's been awesome. No worries at all. I don't have as much on my new machine yet but it seems to not get bogged down at all where my last-gen rMPB gets all hot and bothered rather quickly. It also doesn't seem to run as hot, I don't think I've heard a fan kick in yet (it is the winter ;D). I used to run my neural-styles on my last-gen rMBP as it would max at like 60GB (thanks swap!) where my 32GB linux box would tap out at... ~31.5GB. I am dying to run an apple to apple to penquin RNN death match here soon, but... yanno... people need gifts.
RAM -- 16GB is fine, it runs swap off an SSD, life could be A LOT worse. I am not sure how big swap can get but my last machine was touching 60GB under max loads of the RNN.
Touchpad -- it's HUGE and it's AWESOME! I don't have to do that lil finger-shifty maneuver to drag all the way across the screen now. I don't have any palming issues either. It's AMAZING!
Battery -- I saw some weirdness when I first got it, like being stuck at 80% for 3 hours. But it seems to have gotten enough data now to make better calcs on the power remaining. It feels like it lasts a lot longer than my old machine while doing generally the same work (usually local GAE instances, pycharm, chrome, webstorm, bundler watchers, the usual).
Ports -- I got one dongle and have only needed to use it once to test mousewheel events on a standard mouse. It worked great and everything else I plan to upgrade to USB-C and reading the instructions (it's really not THAT confusing guys...)
I am super pumped about my new upgrade and I definitely DID buy this myself (though it's a business write-off I suppose). I was waiting for the next MBP for a new lappy and had plenty of time to make a choice and every other laptop I got my hands on simply didn't have the same build quality or level of standard that this does. I also am not a fan for ultra-do-anything coffee-breath Windows and Linux support is always more trouble than it's worth at times (personally, macOS is my favorite unix-like os flavor by far).
[+] [-] otalp|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pcl|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] amelius|9 years ago|reply
Isn't that just because you are used to a different keyboard now?
[+] [-] jmnicolas|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] RandomOpinion|9 years ago|reply
I've seen a lot of people say this but I dunno. I'm kind of leery of doing something that would cause me to develop problematic muscle memory when typing on normal keyboards, e.g. on other people's machines. I have enough trouble flipping between Mac and Windows keyboard shortcuts already.
[+] [-] tibbon|9 years ago|reply
The keyboard I thought I'd hate, but it's actually so much better than I imagined.
[+] [-] pier25|9 years ago|reply
https://vimeo.com/195645497
[+] [-] dingo_bat|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] caycep|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|9 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] mmjjaa|9 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] duggan|9 years ago|reply
> Once our official testing was done, we experimented by conducting the same battery tests using a Chrome browser, rather than Safari. For this exercise, we ran two trials on each of the laptops, and found battery life to be consistently high on all six runs.
I've been using a 13" MacBook Pro (without Touch Bar) for six weeks now, and have found the battery life very impressive (I use Chrome rather than Safari).
[1]: http://www.consumerreports.org/laptops/macbook-pros-fail-to-...
[+] [-] jnbiche|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] el_benhameen|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] derrickdirge|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nilkn|9 years ago|reply
After Apple Care and taxes, I ended up dropping over $3k on my 2016 15" MBP. This makes it the most expensive laptop I've ever owned.
Just a few points that might be of interest:
* Battery life has legitimately been fine for me. I consistently get 8-10 hours of light work (working in the terminal and browser). Despite all the battery life complaints, this is actually the best battery life I've personally gotten on any MBP I've owned.
* I love the trackpad. It's comically large, but I adapted fast, and the palm rejection has been working really well for me.
* The Touch Bar makes sense and is well-implemented. It's not revolutionary and I wouldn't recommend getting the laptop because it has the touch bar. But it's a legitimate (if small) step forward in usability. It is not without its compromises (e.g., no physical escape key), but I've found I adapted to the compromises very quickly.
* The form factor is incredibly portable for a 15" laptop.
* The port situation isn't a big deal for me personally because I don't use this laptop as a desktop replacement and rarely have any need for the ports.
* I'm fine with the keyboard. It's very satisfyingly clicky, and I can type very fast on it, just as fast as any other keyboard. I wouldn't say I prefer it to more traditional keyboards; it's not a big deal to me either way.
[+] [-] IBM|9 years ago|reply
By the time I'm ready to replace my 2012 MBA I expect the price will have fallen.
[+] [-] detaro|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] latortuga|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] alberth|9 years ago|reply
49.2 watt-hour: 2016 13" MacBook Pro Touch [2]
Why are so many people surprised that the battery life went down from ~10 hours down to ~7 hours?
When the physical battery size is only ~70% of the previous model, it's no surprise the new MacBook Pro only gets ~7 hours of battery life.
[1] https://support.apple.com/kb/sp691?locale=en_US
[2] http://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/specs/
[+] [-] en4bz|9 years ago|reply
Dell XPS 15 - http://amzn.to/2hZjqpT
Asus UX501 - http://amzn.to/2hLG9VW
MSI GS63 - http://amzn.to/2ik00Zf
Gigabyte Aero14 - http://amzn.to/2ijMxk6
Razer Blade - http://amzn.to/2hvyGHj
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLsDn59fxdQ
[+] [-] otalp|9 years ago|reply
What could possibly the reason for such drastic variations in the same laptop, over a short period of time, when the testing conditions remain consistent?
[+] [-] rayiner|9 years ago|reply
The battery life will get fixed in successive iterations, I think. There is a ton more space in there for bigger batteries: https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/cBFfrfQPrPBFgV1s. Compare to how packed the old 15" is: https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/Jxqp6l2cEQn4olWQ.h....
[+] [-] sprite|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pansen|9 years ago|reply
Before (or still) I have a MBPR 13" Late 2015, also with max RAM, max CPU; 2400 brutto until 2 months ago. That is still running on El Capitan, the new one Sierra of course. System was migrated, so simlilar software stack (besides the OS version).
My typical application list looks like: Pycharm, PHPStorm (~3 projects open at a time), Vagrant, Virtualbox, Chrome with many tabs, Firefox with less tabs, minor stuff like Sublime, Terminal windows, iTunes etc.
Besides the critics on keyboard (especially the arrows issue), connection ports (try to buy a good usb c - displayport cable), which i would all consider as "managable".. To me this laptop is a bad joke if I see the battery time and performance.
Given my usage profile, which I think should be handled by the super expensive top model of a "premium company", this laptop does only a minimum (if at all) better performance. The base cpu usage on my older one, having all open and doing nothing ist at 9%. Same thing for the newer one is 13%. There is nothing that works obviously faster, general "snappyness" when working is subjectively worse due to wakeup delays from the OS power optimisation magic.
About the battery time I can only say, that 4hours is max for me at ~80% brightness. I'm also sure that the new MBP drains battery faster, meaning has less runtime (though i cannot provide exact measurements).
As a good thing to say: the display is fantastic and of course it looks nice.
After less than a week this device is not worth its money and does nothing more for me than what I have for roughly 1/3 less money and more than a year old.
It is sent back.
[+] [-] pyrophane|9 years ago|reply
The problem, of course, is that the new CPUs are optimized to provide better battery life under typical usage. If you've got something running in the background that is constantly re-indexing your source code, then the CPU optimizations aren't going to help you and a smaller battery is still a smaller battery.
Also, a lot of that indexing can take advantage of multiple cores, so the jump to a quad-core proc as in the 15" helps more than the minor boost in clock speed is going to. I'm usually fine with a dual-core processor unless I'm either trying to do big compilations (especially in Scala) or using JetBrains IDEs. God help me if I'm trying to do both.
[+] [-] outworlder|9 years ago|reply
The error of the MacBook Pro is the 'Pro' part. It's supposedly being marketed to professionals, but optimizing for one thing only, which is thinness. I don't think anyone ever asked for the "old" MacBook Pro to be thinner. Maybe a beefier CPU, maybe a GPU worth something, maybe more battery life. Or more ports. But thinner? They used to have a very good product for that, and that's the Air, which is now neglected.
Apple's product lineup is a mess. Like the time after Steve got kicked out.
Disclaimer: typing this on a 2015 15" MacBook Pro.
[+] [-] timemachiner|9 years ago|reply
First 2-3 days I was getting 5 hour estimates. Since then it increased to 8-10 and now has increased to 14.5 hours. I keep it unplugged for 6 hours regularly and the estimates have been consistent thus far with the 14.5. I haven't kept it unplugged more than 6-7 hours but I am not afraid of it running out of juice while I'm out and about. Suits my needs as a student.
[+] [-] mgkimsal|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] S_A_P|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] api|9 years ago|reply
Ouch.
After seeing the touch bar, I think it's really not all that useful. I would much rather have seen more battery, RAM, faster CPU options, traditional USB and HDMI, magsafe, and more SSD. Basically take the 2014-2015 MacBook Pro and beef it up and I will be very happy.
People say it's selling. Of course it is. Mac still has a near-monopoly on "Unix with good UI." But if they keep doing this, it will erode. Windows is becoming nicer in many ways, MS and other PC hardware is getting better, Linux desktop is steadily improving, etc. The ecosystem never stands still.
[+] [-] Keyframe|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] crazygringo|9 years ago|reply
It worked for nearly twenty hours, when advertised for just "up to 10"?
Presumably whatever bugs led to 4.5 hours can be fixed in software updates (occasionally I find my Mac running at full-CPU due to some boneheaded OSX process).
But if my new laptop has a best-case scenario of nearly 20 hours (and not "minimal brightness while not running anything")... then that's the best recommendation I've heard yet.
[+] [-] heisenbit|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] post_break|9 years ago|reply