These are definitely the awesome laptops Apple should have made. I just really don't want to give up macOS. I've literally put this thing back and forth into my cart, twenty times by now. But there is just too much I'm giving up environment wise. Either I go with Windows, and lose unix, or I go Linux, and lose everything but unix. That's why MacOS works for me, and I'm sure others. It's what Linux should have been by now, a hybrid Windows/Unix experience. Apple is really pissing me off, forcing me even to contemplate this.
The Linux layer on Windows 10 is quite functional. Of course, this suggestion presumes both that you're OK with Windows as a replacement for macOS for non-dev stuff and that you don't have an immediate need for the handful of things not yet supported by the WSL, but if both of those are true, it might be worth looking into.
And tbh: money is not the issue. I don't like the 'apple tax' but they are comfortable wayyyyyy up in their trees... and macOS / iOS dev env is leverage.
I'm on the same boat. Except I have a chromebox as guinea pig.
I've seen people reporting this transition as a 'surprisingly good experience'. So here's my 2 cents on a 30 minute run (amount of time it takes me to setup a new macbook):
1password: there are options, but omg it just works...
xrandr: I knew things would get hairy when I found myself looking up how to dual monitor + rotate on i3wm
fonts: I don't know what it is, but seems different
I know your experience will vary from distro to distro, but that is exactly the point: it's hard to find that happy place.
I'm sure that sticking to certain distro, under certain hardware, things will go fine. But that at point I ask myself: Sooo... this seems similar to mac ecosystem, why not pay the apple tax and move on?
I don't think 2017 will be the year of linux on the desktop (or any other prophecy along those lines), but for sure it will be 'the year I reconsidered linux on the desktop'.
The Linux experience I saw so far would be enough for me to be productive with some known rough edges that I can either help fix or report.
Worst case scenario I get a macbook pro during the fall update ;)
> But there is just too much I'm giving up environment wise.
I was a few years Linux, few years MacOS and now back to Arch Linux and loving it. The only thing that really does not have good Linux alternative is adobe illustrator.
What do you mean by "lose everything"? You don't need to use pre-installed Ubuntu. Any distro should work OK, choose the one that works better for you. I wouldn't trade experience of something like KDE Plasma 5 to MacOS or Windows. If you mean some applications that are available on MacOS only - that can be a different story.
I can't speak for this generation, but I have a previous-gen XPS 15 (or a current-gen, depending on how you look at it, since the Kaby Lake stuff isn't entirely out yet) and Linux runs on the normal Windows edition just fine, with the exception that I swapped out the wireless for an Intel card on the advice of a coworker. I'm not sure if that will still apply to this gen since ISTR they come with an Intel wireless either way, though if that matters to you, check first. (Still, new wireless cards are quite cheap on Amazon ~$20, and easy to replace, if it suits you.)
Of course, dual booting comes with its own issues. But I pretty much just game in Windows.
What am I missing? It looks like it is priced much higher than the MBP, and aside from a more appropriately priced TB SSD and ports (yes, Apple f'd this up short term), I'm not seeing what makes it better.
This issue has been my bane, and the biggest reason I haven't upgraded from my old thinkpad (has dedicated mechanical buttons). I would have thought there would be a resolution by now since more and more laptops do away with the dedicated buttons, but I've never found one.
I'm on my XPS 13 right now, on Arch Linux using xf86-libinput, thumb rested on the bottom left of the trackpad ready to click. Moving my finger on the trackpad towards the top moves the cursor. Using two fingers (with my thumb rested) scrolls the page.
However, if I use my thumb to move the cursor first, this doesn't work and instead scrolls the page.
I've run it with one monitor, two would be hard since it only has a single USB C and I don't have any monitors that can daisy chain.. if that's even a thing. The issue is that Linux doesn't play nicely with having different pixel densities on each monitor. You can try to make it scale, but then apps appear in different sizes depending on which screen you open them on. It's pretty horrible, so I run the laptop at half-res (1600x900) so that it matches the monitor and everything is the same size.
Suspend/resume works fine.
I've had to restart the network-manager service just once to get WiFi to refresh. Otherwise it's fine reconnecting when you come in/out of suspend.
Other things: battery isn't great but I don't use it away from a desk. On the first couple of days the Ubuntu Software Centre kept crashing; I think it's fine now but I don't tend to use it anyway. I disabled the Dell apt source because it was failing - I don't know if that was a one-off problem or it's just broken.
But, I'm running Linux as my primary development environment again and it just feels _so good_ after a few painful months on OS X.
I purchased an XPS 13 in December last year. More specifically I have the 2016 - 9360 model.
The laptop came with Windows 10 preinstalled (Dell did not offer Linux preinstalled in Australia).
I installed Fedora 25 on it. I hit a major issues with the Linux installer failing to recognize the Laptop's built in SSD. I was able to fix this by entering the BIOS and changing the SATA controller to AHCI mode and disabling Secure boot (apparently intel is to blame because bios default SATA "RAID mode" only works under Windows). After I made bios changes Windows partition would no longer boot (not a huge deal for me as I nuked this partition during Linux install).
The first time I closed the lid it failed to wake from suspend and I had to power cycle it. However since then I've updated the system packages quite a few times and it has successfully woken each time I have closed the lid subsequently. So suspect newer kernel fixed this.
For dual monitor support I haven't noticed any issues. But rarely run with an external monitor attached. WiFi worked out of the box. Never used bluetooth on it.
Trackpad is probably biggest issue it feels very poor to use and often does not register clicks. When I mentioned this on LWN some people mentioned changing from synaptics driver to using libinput driver for touchpad - for time being though I have been using an external mouse.
Overall I'm mostly satisfied. For hardware as new as what I purchased everything has worked remarkably well.
I use this laptop. Suspend and resume work just fine, and resuming from hibernation, if you go the Windows route, is still <5s, thanks to the NVMe drive.
Wifi and Bluetooth work just fine. Yet to have an issue.
I drive a 4K Dell screen via a Kensington dock - this is a nice solution, one USB-C connector into the laptop, supplies power, and gives me Ethernet, 4k60 DP (which also allows chaining, but I haven't tried that, yet).
Note sure why you would be "that guy", unless you mean you're asking questions without reading the article...
However, I skimmed the article and searched for terms like resume/sleep/wake/suspend without a hit - which I assume means they're working fine.
The article did quote that everything is running out of the box, so, again, the presumption is that those features work.
Bluetooth and Wifi work but who knows in Real World experience since the more you tinker with Linux the more issues you run into (unless you're seasoned).
Dual monitors I have no idea.
Also, those are all valid questions which I think most intro-level folks to Linux ask.
My personal issue with Linux has always been printing. At times, the drivers just stop working or crash a network company printer for no good reason. Not sure if its the novice in me or a SOP for most Linux users.
I actually have Ubuntu 16.4 on the previous (non Dev Edition) generation of this laptop (HW almost identical), and it works almost out of the box for the things you mentioned (needed to solve a problem with touchpad palm detection, and touchscreen bug after resuming from sleep).
Of course, mind you, dual monitor support on Ubuntu (or any other linux distro) sucks (I guess it's because X is crap). It is, however, functional. You get some annoying glitches when hot-plugging monitors, etc. Sometimes apps crash when both monitors "disappear" (laptop is closed an you disconnect the external monitor). But it works WAY better than I expected.
Dell make sure all of the hardware works with Linux out of the box before releasing new versions of the Developer Edition laptops. Everything you mentioned works fine, that's the whole point of the Developer Edition laptops.
After having actually read the EULA/TOS shipped with Dell ubuntu versions, I would rather order the hardware with no OS and install my own if possible.
Can you elaborate a bit for those of us that haven't read it? What stood out as particularly bad for you? I am asking since I am considering one of these machines.
As usual "battery" is repeated multiple times in the article but without any number. When will reviewers understand that "battery life is not great" means absolutely nothing and replace it with something like "battery lasts 3 hours and 4 minutes while repeatedly streaming a youtube video in 4K on Chrome 52"? Notebookcheck is the only consumer tech website worth reading for the reviews (if you know others please share them) because of their precise, standardized tests from the display to the noise and heat produced by the chassis.
From the article: "After the Kaby Lake upgrade, the other major improvement is the move from a 56wHR 4-cell battery to a slightly greater capacity 60wHR model. That doesn't sound like much, but Dell now claims an astounding 21 hour battery life for the 1080p version of the XPS 13. That claim was largely borne out in Ars testing of that model, which managed to last for over 18 hours in Ars' standard Wi-Fi browsing test."
For what it's worth, my XPS 13 (with the 3200x1800 screen) lasts a good six hours on battery. I typically don't bother bringing the charger with me. The power brick on the charger is also very small and lightweight, making bring it with you not a big deal either.
Can anybody say whether the ANSI-style keyboard shown is the "Internal US/International Qwerty Backlit Keyboard" option that's available on Dell's shop on the website, or whether this place just got sent a US-spec laptop for whatever reason?
The word "international" is rather worrying, suggesting it might have one of those upside down L return keys...
This sounds like a great replacement for my aging MacBook Air, but, having been bitten by its non-upgradeable 4 GB of RAM, I'm wondering whether I should just get a 32 GB laptop.
I think I'll spring for the XPS 15 in the end, since it has a better graphics card as well, and I could do some light gaming on it.
I'll be going for the XPS 15 too. I've been using an XPS 13 9333 from 2014 with 8GB RAM and recently I've struggling to keep things under that limit.
The XPS 15 has the advantage that the RAM is user replaceable, and as I understand it, the 16GB model comes with a single 16GB module, so should be fairly cheap to upgrade to 32GB yourself if you'd like to save a few $ initially.
Anyone know how the XPS 13 2 in 1 is w/ Linux support? I don't think they have a DE for the 2 in 1, but thinking about snagging one for a light work/entertainment laptop.
The main difference in hardware between the DE and the non-DE is the wireless card, which isn't impossible to get working but definitely a pain in the ass. I can only imagine with the touch screen and tablet-mode combined it would be a tall order for out-of-the-box Linux compatibility.
The keyboard is shit according to the reviews. Every developer needs a good keyboard. This is why I exclusively use ThinkPads, even if they aren't as good under Lenovo as they were before.
[+] [-] overcast|9 years ago|reply
I KNOW Linux isn't Unix.
[+] [-] Analemma_|9 years ago|reply
The Linux layer on Windows 10 is quite functional. Of course, this suggestion presumes both that you're OK with Windows as a replacement for macOS for non-dev stuff and that you don't have an immediate need for the handful of things not yet supported by the WSL, but if both of those are true, it might be worth looking into.
[+] [-] lxfontes|9 years ago|reply
I'm on the same boat. Except I have a chromebox as guinea pig.
I've seen people reporting this transition as a 'surprisingly good experience'. So here's my 2 cents on a 30 minute run (amount of time it takes me to setup a new macbook):
1password: there are options, but omg it just works...
xrandr: I knew things would get hairy when I found myself looking up how to dual monitor + rotate on i3wm
fonts: I don't know what it is, but seems different
I know your experience will vary from distro to distro, but that is exactly the point: it's hard to find that happy place.
I'm sure that sticking to certain distro, under certain hardware, things will go fine. But that at point I ask myself: Sooo... this seems similar to mac ecosystem, why not pay the apple tax and move on?
I don't think 2017 will be the year of linux on the desktop (or any other prophecy along those lines), but for sure it will be 'the year I reconsidered linux on the desktop'.
The Linux experience I saw so far would be enough for me to be productive with some known rough edges that I can either help fix or report.
Worst case scenario I get a macbook pro during the fall update ;)
[+] [-] kozikow|9 years ago|reply
I was a few years Linux, few years MacOS and now back to Arch Linux and loving it. The only thing that really does not have good Linux alternative is adobe illustrator.
[+] [-] shmerl|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] yuters|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jerf|9 years ago|reply
Of course, dual booting comes with its own issues. But I pretty much just game in Windows.
[+] [-] kminehart|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|9 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] jkmcf|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] passivepinetree|9 years ago|reply
Sure, you couldn't use both at the same time, but that seems like it'd take care of most (of at least my) use cases.
[+] [-] kag0|9 years ago|reply
This issue has been my bane, and the biggest reason I haven't upgraded from my old thinkpad (has dedicated mechanical buttons). I would have thought there would be a resolution by now since more and more laptops do away with the dedicated buttons, but I've never found one.
[+] [-] kminehart|9 years ago|reply
However, if I use my thumb to move the cursor first, this doesn't work and instead scrolls the page.
Hope that answers your question.
[+] [-] kosma|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jvehent|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] evacchi|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] CityWanderer|9 years ago|reply
Suspend/resume works fine.
I've had to restart the network-manager service just once to get WiFi to refresh. Otherwise it's fine reconnecting when you come in/out of suspend.
Other things: battery isn't great but I don't use it away from a desk. On the first couple of days the Ubuntu Software Centre kept crashing; I think it's fine now but I don't tend to use it anyway. I disabled the Dell apt source because it was failing - I don't know if that was a one-off problem or it's just broken.
But, I'm running Linux as my primary development environment again and it just feels _so good_ after a few painful months on OS X.
[+] [-] bigger_cheese|9 years ago|reply
The laptop came with Windows 10 preinstalled (Dell did not offer Linux preinstalled in Australia).
I installed Fedora 25 on it. I hit a major issues with the Linux installer failing to recognize the Laptop's built in SSD. I was able to fix this by entering the BIOS and changing the SATA controller to AHCI mode and disabling Secure boot (apparently intel is to blame because bios default SATA "RAID mode" only works under Windows). After I made bios changes Windows partition would no longer boot (not a huge deal for me as I nuked this partition during Linux install).
The first time I closed the lid it failed to wake from suspend and I had to power cycle it. However since then I've updated the system packages quite a few times and it has successfully woken each time I have closed the lid subsequently. So suspect newer kernel fixed this.
For dual monitor support I haven't noticed any issues. But rarely run with an external monitor attached. WiFi worked out of the box. Never used bluetooth on it.
Trackpad is probably biggest issue it feels very poor to use and often does not register clicks. When I mentioned this on LWN some people mentioned changing from synaptics driver to using libinput driver for touchpad - for time being though I have been using an external mouse.
Overall I'm mostly satisfied. For hardware as new as what I purchased everything has worked remarkably well.
[+] [-] FireBeyond|9 years ago|reply
Wifi and Bluetooth work just fine. Yet to have an issue.
I drive a 4K Dell screen via a Kensington dock - this is a nice solution, one USB-C connector into the laptop, supplies power, and gives me Ethernet, 4k60 DP (which also allows chaining, but I haven't tried that, yet).
[+] [-] bardworx|9 years ago|reply
However, I skimmed the article and searched for terms like resume/sleep/wake/suspend without a hit - which I assume means they're working fine.
The article did quote that everything is running out of the box, so, again, the presumption is that those features work.
Bluetooth and Wifi work but who knows in Real World experience since the more you tinker with Linux the more issues you run into (unless you're seasoned).
Dual monitors I have no idea.
Also, those are all valid questions which I think most intro-level folks to Linux ask.
My personal issue with Linux has always been printing. At times, the drivers just stop working or crash a network company printer for no good reason. Not sure if its the novice in me or a SOP for most Linux users.
[+] [-] keyme|9 years ago|reply
Of course, mind you, dual monitor support on Ubuntu (or any other linux distro) sucks (I guess it's because X is crap). It is, however, functional. You get some annoying glitches when hot-plugging monitors, etc. Sometimes apps crash when both monitors "disappear" (laptop is closed an you disconnect the external monitor). But it works WAY better than I expected.
[+] [-] JamesMcMinn|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] arca_vorago|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] edvinbesic|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] db48x|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] chpmrc|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] smcl|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] chias|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] to3m|9 years ago|reply
The word "international" is rather worrying, suggesting it might have one of those upside down L return keys...
[+] [-] moreentropy|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] StavrosK|9 years ago|reply
I think I'll spring for the XPS 15 in the end, since it has a better graphics card as well, and I could do some light gaming on it.
[+] [-] JamesMcMinn|9 years ago|reply
The XPS 15 has the advantage that the RAM is user replaceable, and as I understand it, the 16GB model comes with a single 16GB module, so should be fairly cheap to upgrade to 32GB yourself if you'd like to save a few $ initially.
[+] [-] buckhx|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kminehart|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Hydraulix989|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ld00d|9 years ago|reply
It's the first thing I look for and most often the first source of disappointment.
[+] [-] unknown|9 years ago|reply
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