Chinese gov is ridiculous. My girlfriend made a one word posting on the Chinese clone of facebook that read "freedom". The post disappeared in minutes and she received a private message warning her that her account may be deleted if she continues making such posts.
One upside is that Chinese people seem to be a little more tech savvy. ie. many of them are forced to learn about proxy servers so they can go around the blocking.
Edit: By Chinese facebook, I meant the Chinese CLONE of facebook. Facebook itself is totally blocked in China.
One common misconception is that all censorship is done automatically based on keywords. While it's true that internet searches in particular, and visits to banned websites are greeted with a connection reset, the censorship of message boards is done by hordes of low-paid individual workers (the "50-cent party" [1]) that are local to each district. Your girlfriend's post (which was a one-word post, and an inflammatory one at that) was probably spotted by whichever worker(s) were responsible for monitoring that message board.
When such a post is removed, it's typically referred to by netizens as being "harmonized", a play on Hu Jintao's "Harmonious Society" slogan [2].
You should check out the archives of a site like chinasmack or chinahush[3], who have translated summaries of popular chinese message board topics and gives a good feel of the day-to-day life of a chinese netizen.
Not trying to doubt you, but was it really just a one word post that elicited that reaction? Did the message come from Facebook or someone else? Is this a common occurrence?
When I read the comment about how "it was an honor" to be banned by the GFWoC, this poem cam to mind.
"When the regime ordered
Books with dangerous knowledge
To be burned in public and everywhere
Oxen were forced to pull, carts with books
to the bonfires, one of the persecuted poets
discovered one of the best
studying the list of the burned
disconcerted, that his books were forgotten.
He rushed to his desk, flying on wings of rage
and wrote a letter to the the authorities.
Burn me! he wrote with a quick stroke
Burn me! don't do this to me! Do not spare me!
Have I not always reported the truth in my books?
Yet now you treat me as were I a liar!
I command you: Burn me! "
OTOH, this means that Dropbox has obviously gotten big enough to be a threat to the authorities.
Chinese government ban sites for the information on it what might threat the stability of the country, it has nothing to do with a company big enough or not. Tons of innocent sites are banned because they are hosted on the same IP address that also hosted some anti-China sites. This event means nothing to Dropbox, it only means someone was using Dropbox to pass through information that is not considered legal in China.
You have the advantage of shipping a desktop client, which affords you a variety of interesting methods beyond what purely web based apps and browsers can do.
The desktop client could even serve as a local proxy server for web/forum access.
If all non-Chinese servers rejected any requests from China, would this be counter-productive? Basically if everyone else banded together and said "You can have all of it or none of it, but you can't pick and choose." would this force open China's hand or would it just make things miserable for people that actually care. The number of people that actually care is a very very small percentage; most of my Chinese friends don't care about accessing material from outside China. They're interested in games, chatting, and watching movies.
It is actually pretty hard to single out China like that. many countries (including for example, Australia) have great firewalls. They can honestly point around and say half the world censors, why you picking on us?
I live in China as an expat (from the US). It's not really clear to me what the political/social motivations are for blocking Dropbox. Maybe Dropbox is going to merge with Facetwit; that's blocked here too but dropping Dropbox is something new.
As a paying user in China (just paid for my 1-year plan), I'll just continue to use Dropbox over my VPN. Such insane censorship will fall. Freedom will prevail. But I wish the Chinese government gets sued to hell over WTO violations.
Most Chinese use some version of Windows. The PRC built their own variant of Linux; it looks like their building off of the 2.6 kernel but (surprise, surprise) I can't find the source anywhere on their website.
It's sad how the Chinese government don't seem to realize that they're impeding their own people's progress and global competitiveness, especially for business that requires innovation and speed, with such moves.
In many cases, blocking foreign sites is an opportunity for a Chinese home-grown competitor. Blocking sites that only foreigners use isn't impeding business much.
If you want to target China as a market, you have to have a company there and pay into the system to play. You don't get to run your U.S. or EU web site and have users/revenue grow in China without taking a chance that you will get blocked. Them's are the rules...without regard to censorship...China takes care of China.
I will throw my 2-cents in. My wife posted the name CCP on the Chinese version of Twitter and received an immediate message. Scared her enough to quit for good. For those who can read mandarin: http://twitpic.com/19h81p
We need to push our representatives to call foul on WTO violations. These are unfair business practices as web-based companies need to be protected too.
It's all about "block and copy" so the west is losing precious resources and hard-earned IP.
Several months ago I came across an issue where it became obvious that a file in my Dropbox public folder was being blocked by the GFWoC (public files are accessed via the dl.dropbox.com domain). I ran some tests using online services that attempt to access your web resources from within the firewall perimeter, and sure enough my links were blocked. I am surprised that the rest of the story is only now developing.
is this kind of activity by the Chinese government really sustainable or will the ever-increasing flow of information win-out? personally, i think it's only a matter of time.
its a holding action...not sustainable...hopefully, they'll pull out of this heavy-handed tailspin they've been in the past year...but...this behavior is mostly driven by fear of problems with the wide economic divides and its going to be a long time before things get better on that front...so no telling where this all leads.
I'm in China now, & this kind of shit has bothered me for a long time. Eventually I will probably end up over here (family). Sure, I have a VPN set up, but that just makes things slower. How on earth am I supposed to run a business without Google, Facebook, Twitter & Dropbox.
I'm surprised people have been using dropbox from China. Most SaaS run from the U.S. are too slow and long connections are very likely to get dropped. I suppose the dropbox client must be highly fault tolerant.
As to it being identified as a 'circumvention device', there are many reasons why it could have been blocked...some automated methods and some that require a person. It could be as simple as someone published a file with certain keywords in it and that file link got posted in a few places...then bam...automatic block. We don't know the rules to the system. And there are actually several systems, run by different government departments...with support from many more non-government employees of web sites.
Well, China just got even more amazing. I don't think the Chinese people were very affected by Google leaving. But DropBox is a very useful tool. I'm not sure it has any remarcable competititors that can relevantly fill the gap.
• This is most likely related to viewing Dropbox as a source of information sharing that cannot be controlled. It is a testament to Dropbox's influence, that the government would see DB as a threat. Until DB can promise the government a sufficient amount of control over the content shared, they won't be allowed to be accessed here. (See Google)
• Up until this point, the whole Google fiasco has been settled quite well.
1. Google didn't want to remain in China and be forced to censor content. Check.
2. China didn't want to make an exception. Check.
3. Google still has a presence in China and doesn't have to filter its content. China hasn't lost face and been forced to make an exception. Check.
Even though it's not ideal and the service gets blocked sometimes, I sense that China and Google came to an agreement together that Google's move to Hong Kong would be the most appropriate thing to accomplish the two seemingly contradictory goals. You will note that if China didn't want Google at all, they would've blocked Google in HK from day one. That's not to say that Google will never be blocked, but at this point it's safe to say that the government does not see Google as a big enough threat to warrant being blocked.
• Could DB do something similar? Maybe. It seems that DB would have to reach out to the Chinese government and cooperate to some degree in a sign to show that there is a desire to be in China. Then, like Google, they could choose to pull out to HK, where hopefully there would continue to be this unspoken agreement to let foreign companies be. This might backfire in that the government might just pull the plug on all foreign companies in HK, feeling that the initial overtures were superficial and that there was just a desire to be given a certain level of access in China without having to abide by the other stipulations that other companies have. If DB chose to try and cooperate with the government, this would lead to some form of censorship (either by DB, the government, or by the users themselves) thus defeating some of the benefit of using DB. DB is fundamentally different from the service that Google offers, though, so following Google's path might not work.
• This whole thing makes me sad. Chinese culture is fundamentally different from Western culture. That doesn't justify certain things but you'll have to talk to people (real people…not just read chinaSMACK) to understand better some of the reasons for these policies. The point is, though, that the Chinese government is dealing with a different set of problems with a different set of values than other Western governments. Until there are some changes in the problems or in the values, we'll continue to see different permutations of these kinds of policies. I've also seen a pattern of non-risk taking behavior here. Policies like these discourage people take chances at producing great ideas. Most Chinese comp sci students want to get a good job at a stable company. From what I have seen, and I'm still learning a lot about tech here, the lack of the entrepreneurial spirit is related to a lack in the quality of programming. There isn't the same kind of cut-throat competition that I've seen in the States and this leads to less motivation for learning the best (or better) way to do things. There are obvious exceptions to this, but in general, the motivation for someone to set up their own business is very low. It's too risky.
[+] [-] zaidf|16 years ago|reply
One upside is that Chinese people seem to be a little more tech savvy. ie. many of them are forced to learn about proxy servers so they can go around the blocking.
Edit: By Chinese facebook, I meant the Chinese CLONE of facebook. Facebook itself is totally blocked in China.
[+] [-] joshwa|16 years ago|reply
When such a post is removed, it's typically referred to by netizens as being "harmonized", a play on Hu Jintao's "Harmonious Society" slogan [2].
You should check out the archives of a site like chinasmack or chinahush[3], who have translated summaries of popular chinese message board topics and gives a good feel of the day-to-day life of a chinese netizen.
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Cent_Party
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonious_Society
[3] http://chinasmack.com http://chinahush.com
[+] [-] thechangelog|16 years ago|reply
That level of censorship boggles the mind...
[+] [-] kurumo|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] barmstrong|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 9lessonslabs|16 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] unknown|16 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] Jun8|16 years ago|reply
OTOH, this means that Dropbox has obviously gotten big enough to be a threat to the authorities.
[+] [-] seattle|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bmelton|16 years ago|reply
Regards.
[+] [-] reitzensteinm|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] varjag|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dhouston|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rarrrrrr|16 years ago|reply
The desktop client could even serve as a local proxy server for web/forum access.
[+] [-] drusenko|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nash|16 years ago|reply
Generally speaking if it's because of a local competitor (eg youku or renren (vs youtube or facebook)) I would not hold my breath.
[+] [-] kaptain|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] maxklein|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ycseattle|16 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] kaptain|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] netcan|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] patio11|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kaptain|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ErrantX|16 years ago|reply
All of which is non-indexed and not easily tracked.
Im guessing it's become a distribution method for information they are not keen on (or they feel it will be).
In a sense it was only a matter of time :(
[+] [-] joshhart|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] zellux|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ev0|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] aswanson|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kaptain|16 years ago|reply
http://www.kylin-os.com/products/os/features.html#googtrans/...
If you use Chrome, it has an auto-translate feature that works pretty well.
[+] [-] radicaldreamer|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jhancock|16 years ago|reply
If you want to target China as a market, you have to have a company there and pay into the system to play. You don't get to run your U.S. or EU web site and have users/revenue grow in China without taking a chance that you will get blocked. Them's are the rules...without regard to censorship...China takes care of China.
[+] [-] est|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Super74|16 years ago|reply
We need to push our representatives to call foul on WTO violations. These are unfair business practices as web-based companies need to be protected too.
It's all about "block and copy" so the west is losing precious resources and hard-earned IP.
[+] [-] Gormo|16 years ago|reply
The Chinese government is hurting China a lot more than it's hurting the west.
[+] [-] evandavid|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] CoachRufus87|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jhancock|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] phatbyte|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] vorg|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] c1sc0|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jacquesm|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jhancock|16 years ago|reply
As to it being identified as a 'circumvention device', there are many reasons why it could have been blocked...some automated methods and some that require a person. It could be as simple as someone published a file with certain keywords in it and that file link got posted in a few places...then bam...automatic block. We don't know the rules to the system. And there are actually several systems, run by different government departments...with support from many more non-government employees of web sites.
[+] [-] FabriceTalbot|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kaptain|16 years ago|reply
• Up until this point, the whole Google fiasco has been settled quite well.
1. Google didn't want to remain in China and be forced to censor content. Check. 2. China didn't want to make an exception. Check. 3. Google still has a presence in China and doesn't have to filter its content. China hasn't lost face and been forced to make an exception. Check.
Even though it's not ideal and the service gets blocked sometimes, I sense that China and Google came to an agreement together that Google's move to Hong Kong would be the most appropriate thing to accomplish the two seemingly contradictory goals. You will note that if China didn't want Google at all, they would've blocked Google in HK from day one. That's not to say that Google will never be blocked, but at this point it's safe to say that the government does not see Google as a big enough threat to warrant being blocked.
• Could DB do something similar? Maybe. It seems that DB would have to reach out to the Chinese government and cooperate to some degree in a sign to show that there is a desire to be in China. Then, like Google, they could choose to pull out to HK, where hopefully there would continue to be this unspoken agreement to let foreign companies be. This might backfire in that the government might just pull the plug on all foreign companies in HK, feeling that the initial overtures were superficial and that there was just a desire to be given a certain level of access in China without having to abide by the other stipulations that other companies have. If DB chose to try and cooperate with the government, this would lead to some form of censorship (either by DB, the government, or by the users themselves) thus defeating some of the benefit of using DB. DB is fundamentally different from the service that Google offers, though, so following Google's path might not work.
• This whole thing makes me sad. Chinese culture is fundamentally different from Western culture. That doesn't justify certain things but you'll have to talk to people (real people…not just read chinaSMACK) to understand better some of the reasons for these policies. The point is, though, that the Chinese government is dealing with a different set of problems with a different set of values than other Western governments. Until there are some changes in the problems or in the values, we'll continue to see different permutations of these kinds of policies. I've also seen a pattern of non-risk taking behavior here. Policies like these discourage people take chances at producing great ideas. Most Chinese comp sci students want to get a good job at a stable company. From what I have seen, and I'm still learning a lot about tech here, the lack of the entrepreneurial spirit is related to a lack in the quality of programming. There isn't the same kind of cut-throat competition that I've seen in the States and this leads to less motivation for learning the best (or better) way to do things. There are obvious exceptions to this, but in general, the motivation for someone to set up their own business is very low. It's too risky.
[+] [-] johnswamps|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kaptain|16 years ago|reply
Or if you're more into empiricism, install this http://chinachannel.hk/ onto Firefox (warning: isn't > 3.5 compatible).
Or you could come over to my apartment here in China and use my internet connection for a bit and commiserate with me.
[+] [-] siculars|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ck2|16 years ago|reply