Bus Drivers Working in Silicon Valley Struggle to Afford Rent

[tmh79]

From what I see, the spin on this phenomena in this story is incorrect. The real story here isn't the tech companies, its the lack of available housing in the area due to a decades long aversion to building more housing and a huge jobs/housing imbalance amongst almost every city in the SFBA. The real answer is not raising wages to increase competition for a fixed amount of housing, but to increase the amount of housing such that the needs of these workers can be met.

[lupin_sansei]

Exactly. High house prices are caused by a scarcity of houses. This scarcity is often due to restrictive local laws to release more land for housing and/or the permission to build up if there isn't sufficient land.

[closeparen]

It takes two to tango. Shortage takes both low supply and high demand. The tech industry did create this problem by suddenly attracting a ton of talent to the region. The municipalities passed on their opportunity to avert the housing crisis by embracing the change and their new role as Manhattan's tech counterpart, but it also could have been avoided had we chosen some other place, or a more remote/distributed mode.

[mempko]

You missed the point. The trend towards contract workers with fewer benefits and lower wages. Wages are actually going down at the same time housing is going up. Yes they fucking need better wages and benefits.

[alphonsegaston]

Until the tech industry is willing to show some true solidarity with the class of workers who serve it, this is a distinction without a difference. I guarantee that if the collective influence of some of the world's most powerful companies wanted there to be more affordable housing, either out of some noblesse oblige like you see in NYC, or because their employees really turned the screws on them, it would get built.

[djsumdog]

But their wages have gone down. They get passed to crappier and crappier staffing companies who find people who will work for less. Their wages are being cut at the same time housing is unavailable. You cannot separate the complexities of this situation, and there are a lot.

[matt_wulfeck]

Absolutely this. The fix is not to build more luxury houses (which is the only way to profitably build here because of building and permitting costs) but to build more regular houses. Less Ferraris, more Honda Civics.

[Tempest1981]

Well, and the tech industry loves to locate in "hip" high-density areas, when they know that nearby housing and traffic are problematic. And who can argue -- it's good for their business to be in "hip" areas... it attracts talent.

At some point, as prices skyrocket, it will slowly make sense to locate a business in less congested areas: Livermore, Tracey, Gilroy, or Merced.

[panic]

More housing is the long-term solution, but higher wages will help in the short term. They aren't mutually exclusive.

[forgetsusername]

>The real story here isn't the tech companies, its the lack of available housing in the area due to a decades long aversion to building more housing and a huge jobs/housing imbalance amongst almost every city in the SFBA.

Don't you think, say, Mark Zuckerberg buying and bulldozing neighbouring homes for privacy is the epitome of the tech world's affect on this? Tech workers aren't that concerned, are they?

[sigi45]

Everyone has a responsibility. The city but also the tech companies. It can't be that those people, with best jobs, best money don't have to be care or are not responsible because the city should have done something and some time.

Better your live means more responsibilities.

[counterpoint89]

Or maybe reduce the number of jobs available.

[throwaway91111]

As a tech worker who was made to move to the Bay Area--the tech scene is definitely part of the problem.

[jmspring]

Typical HN response. If an area is basically built out (which most of Silicon Valley is), how do you build more housing?

And no, the answer is not change zoning laws and build apartment towers -- places like Mountain View, Palo Alto, Cupertino, Saratoga, even San Jose -- aren't going to suddenly build dense housing on residential lots.

[raincom]

Its been going on since late 90's. I used to work as a security guard in 2002 and 2003. Guardsmark, a security guard contracting co, then used to provide good health insurance to its employees; so, they had to charge more for their services. Then, other contracting companies were like: we can provide the same service with less money. I worked for the latter companies as well: no health insurance. In the end, the companies who get services from these contracting companies, see how much they save by selecting the lowest bidder.

This is happening in IT contracting too. Not every one who works in IT is a rock star programmer. So, companies contract out to contracting companies (like offshore Infosys, TCS, etc; onsite ones like Robert Half, etc). You see, how wages of non-rockstar IT workers have diminished since 2000. Who is making the killing? Of course, the contracting companies like Infosys, Robert Half. The recruiters don't make much; the workers get less.

[protomyth]

I do love the "we contract to a third party" line used by multiple companies. It's pretty much the H1B body shop contracting applied to service jobs. Just because you hired someone else shouldn't mean you are off the hook for what you are well aware is going on.

I still think split shifts should be illegal unless compensated.

[ocdtrekkie]

It also allows the company to talk about how "all of its employees" get X, Y, and Z, without bearing the costs of providing those perks to everyone who works for them.

Imagine if Google had to provide their legendary perks to all of their 'contractors'... The scale of buildout that would be required.

[ashwinne]

This seems to be just a fraction of a bigger TV piece by ABC called My Reality: A Hidden America.

Some other portions of it found on Youtube:

* Firefighter with 3 jobs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ll_8lgs9GCQ

* Fastfood worker: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I28_9eAwEW4

* Stanford U worker who commutes 4 hours: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8T3O4Xat1C0

I don't live in the US, but the situation in these videos looks pretty sad.

[santaclaus]

> In Silicon Valley, amidst the luxury homes

Are there really that many 'luxury' homes? When I'm down in the valley it mostly looks like run of the mill suburbs.

[snarfy]

Many of those 'run of the mill homes' have seven figure prices. They may not be luxury but they have luxury prices.

[hkmurakami]

Sure. Hillsborough, Atherton, Woodside, Portola Valley, Menlo Park, parts of Palo Alto like Crescent Park, Los Altos Hills, North Los Altos, Saratoga towards the hills, Los Gatos.

[binaryapparatus]

Non-American here so I may not fully understand mindset causing this. Simplistic question but why stay in that area then? Why not move somewhere where house can be afforded and which doesn't require 'three hours of sleep'.

Nobody can work on three hours per day sleep pattern so this story can't be entirely true.

If I am working 18 hours per day, no matter how much money I make (enough or not) having no life at all makes it all irrelevant.

[WhitneyLand]

Great question. A few reasons I've heard are:

1) Have many family members nearby. Besides wanting to be near them it also is a support network they would lose.

2) If your not skilled it's not easy to find decent jobs, especially remotely. There are no recruiters calling.

3) It cost money to pick up and relocate. Even if it's only hundreds dollars that is an obstacle when you have zero disposable income,

Still, it seems like it could be good idea when there is no chance of ever prospering in SV.

[hugs]

This is what I did. I lived in the Bay Area (Mountain View) and thought the cost of living there long-term was unaffordable. So I moved to Chicago and now I'm debt free and have a 3-minute-walk commute to work. I wish more people seriously considered this option. Yes, the winters are cold, but no place is perfect. A thick winter coat, gloves, and a hat are a lot cheaper than a Mountain View rent or mortgage. (This is a very privileged opinion though, and I wish everyone had the option of being able to leave if they wanted to.)

[advisedwang]

It sounds like the bus company believes employees can magically be available only at certain hours, and in between they need neither pay nor facilities nor respect. Can anyone really work a split shift and actually use the time between for anything constructive?

[eskil]

Possibly, like driving for Uber/Lyft, shopping for Instacart or dogwalking in the time between since they have their own cars at the depot.

But the problem would still be the extremely long day. Ending with them having to drive a bus at the end of the shift, utterly exhausted.

[paulcole]

work on a side project or freelance

/s

[ghughes]

This is a stain on our industry, and I hope the drivers continue to unionize. The buses are the only reason that the big South Bay tech companies can attract significant quantities of engineers from SF and the East Bay. I think you'd see a significant exodus if SF-based employees suddenly had to deal with 101 and 280 on a daily basis.

[jimmywanger]

> The buses are the only reason that the big South Bay tech companies can attract significant quantities of engineers from SF and the East Bay.

That's simply not true. According to this highly flawed study, 50% of people would still drive in the buses didn't run. http://blog.sfgate.com/techchron/2014/01/21/study-40-percent...

Also, SF has a Google office. I'm not quite sure where you're coming up with these unfounded conjectures from.

[CaliforniaKarl]

I have a suggestion: When you get off the bus, once you've made sure that it's safe to exit, turn your head towards the driver, raise your hand, and say in a loud, clear voice, "Thanks very much!" If exiting from the front door, raising your hand isn't necessary, and you don't have to be loud, but you must still thank your driver.

You have just put your life (or at least, your current physical condition) in the hands of someone who probably makes less than you do in wages. It is important that you provide proper respect and thanks, and simply ignoring them as you exit does not meet that requirement.

This is something I routinely do as I exit the VTA and Marguerite busses I ride; it's interesting how, once I do that, the other behind me start to as well.

Note: I'm not just referring to any specific kind of bus, I'm referring to all kinds of busses here.

[disillusioned]

While that's very considerate of you, and graciousness is not without merit, I don't think the drivers can feed their families on your appreciation.

[burkaman]

Have you ever talked to a bus driver about this? I usually thank the driver too, but I can't imagine they care that much. It's a very minor courtesy.

And it's a little weird to bring this up in this particular thread, as gratitude obviously can't make up for being homeless.

[pmyteh]

This is standard (or at least very common) on public buses in the UK.

I don't know how much it makes the job pleasant, but it can't hurt.

[rasz_pl]

Yes, and while we are at it lets feed children in Africa with FB likes.

[RichardHeart]

I like how working from home reduces waste transition time. If any companies can make remote work effective, its Silicon Valley companies. Save the environment, and the health of your team by not forcing them to play the road rage lottery every week day.

[Decade]

If anything, communication technology is making things worse. Used to be that doing tech meant needing to buy and run computers. Now only a small number of companies actually house the computers, and everybody else uploads to them. So everybody is free to move where they have the most access to other techies and venture capital resources, in particular, the San Francisco Bay Area.

[mavieengris]

Another problem is that the law prevents tech companies from hiring workers that live closer to their office. There are plenty of people in East Palo Alto who would love a job driving a bus at nearby Facebook. However, Facebook is not legally allowed to discriminate based on prospective employee's home address.

This is unfortunately as companies like Facebook aren't able to help the local communities around it's office. And when bus drivers who live hours away get hired, they complain about the long commute.

[claudiug]

for a country like USA, I found this video quite sad. We also have issues in Germany, we also have our problems

but zero vacation.

no sick days.

working from 3.am to 11 am.

sleeping in a car.

I don't judge, is just makes ma sad.

[kombucha2]

Makes you wish companies weren't able to abuse the H1B program and the nature of the independent contractor/employer relationship.

[dba7dba]

In the case of silicon beach, it is the tech companies that sparked this. They moved in to Santa monice and nearby areas. In a matter of 5 years or so price of detached houses in near by cities (with decent commute meaning no driving on 405 freeway) jumped up 100%. When google and other tech companied moved in,'investors' saw the sign and started gobbling up houses to raze or remodel to flip. And you also have Chinese from China following the trend.

Some higher density condo/apartment were built nearby but I really don't see a sign they are even half occupied. It is definitely the tech companies that sparked it. Not their fault necessarily.

[TACIXAT]

Sorry, but that's just not the case. I grew up in Santa Monica / Venice. My family moved there in 98 or 99. Houses were 300k. That area has been consistently rising since then. You'd be hard pressed to find a house in Santa Monica for less than 1 million five years ago. Well before Snapchat showed up. There has been so much wealth in that area for a long time.

I see people on FB complaining about rental prices then turning around and complaining about the parking structure and high density housing being built around them. It's one of the most plesant (climate) places on the planet. Tech didn't drive the demand.

[confounded]

For those in the Bay who want improved conditions for the cooks/drivers/cleaners that keep their companies rolling, it's worth going along to a meeting of the Tech Workers Coalition[0] (IRL or hangouts).

[0]: https://techworkerscoalition.org/

[krakensden]

Dear bus companies: please do not fire anyone who gave a quote for this story :(

[tritosomal]

And so, please cue the self-driving-car argument, because everybody knows that the suffering would stop, if only these buses could drive themselves.

[djsumdog]

I got so sick of all the self-driving car news I wrote this a few weeks back:

http://penguindreams.org/blog/self-driving-cars-will-not-sol...

[jmspring]

The reality of owning in the Bay Area, the history, and the current state of affairs is apparently so far from what the utopia HN would propose... you aren't suddenly turning a 30yo Ranch development into a source for housing...

The innocence and lack of experience in the market is ... cute

[rocky1138]

This is how capitalism is supposed to work. The market is saying the value of driving a bus as a job is effectively zero, something I agree with and very much look forward to the day of robot buses.