>"I think the emphasis of this conversation is wrong," said Bezos. "You have a product so revolutionary, you'll have no problem selling it. The question is, are people going to be allowed to use it?"
Bezos and Jobs were right. Bicycles have been around since the 19th century and yet city planners are still struggling against mainstream political opinion to be able to set aside dedicated space for their use. If most cities currently only barely tolerate bicycles, the Segway was certainly dead on arrival.
I think Jobs' idea for starting small at universities was a bit better of an idea than Bezos' idea of starting in a small country. Davis California for example is the most bike friendly city in America (20% mode share). That would have been the perfect place to start.
Bicycles have been around since the 19th century and yet city planners are still struggling against mainstream political opinion to be able to set aside dedicated space for their use.
To be fair, in the U.S., bicycle use has increased dramatically in the last decade or two, before the recent trend of adding bike lanes. Increased traffic congestion, including from cutbacks in public transit and city planning that emphasizes safety over car speed, have made cars less practical and increased biking a lot.
A (feeble) plug for my hometown, Manchester NH (where Dean Kamen is currently located): I just visited the Millyards and they have apartments there that would cost $3500/month in Boston (more in SF) for $1400/month, Dean just pledged $300 million to biotech startups right there. Not much nightlife but not many distractions either, and they've put these beautiful restaurants in the old mills. It's about the same distance to Boston as Palo Alto is to SF. So if you want to drop off the grid for a while to focus on developing a product it's a great place to get started. Yeah.
Is this just trash talking a hometown you were glad to leave for the glamor of a big city, or do people actually think like this?
I've lived in big cites, and rural Maine, so I understand the fear of missing out that comes with it. But it's possible to have a social life anywhere, and we work online. Is there some startup culture thing that I'm not exposed to where zero commute and physically rubbing elbows is paradoxically more important than in fields less conductive to remote work?
It'd be very difficult to live in a place that is 85% white though, which unfortunately is diverse for New Hampshire.
I think Jobs was right, you'd have a tough time convincing great talent to locate themselves there. Cost of living certainly is a factor, but it's only one of many.
Segway and Google Glass went through similar product image trajectories: immense pre-launch hype, then turned into a dorky status symbol perceived as being for tech-obsessed rich buffoons only, and riddled by regulatory problems concerning its public use.
Yet Snap seems to be doing quite well with its Spectacles resurrection of the Google Glass concept. Maybe Segway will also come back once someone cracks the design and youth-friendly branding?
> a dorky status symbol perceived as being for tech-obsessed rich buffoons
I think this is pretty key. Whenever I hear about Segway, my first thought is Gob Bluth from Arrested Development riding around on one with his name plastered across the control console.
> "Its shape is not innovative, it's not elegant, it doesn't feel anthropomorphic," said Jobs, ticking off three of his design mantras.
I was wondering what exactly did Jobs mean when he said that the design was not "anthropomorphic". I mean, the shape of an iPhone does look very different from that of a human figure.
Think a little bit more broad than actually 'human shaped'. Picture something that you could some how project human qualities on to. A car isn't human shaped, but the front can sometimes be thought of as having the characteristics of a human face. To steve jobs, this was anthropomorphic: http://cdn.ientry.com/sites/webpronews/article_pics/mac128he... I think to probably project a little bit myself, I'd say it might have a bit to do with his experiences with psychedelics where you can get into this headspace where everything takes on life around you.
I think he used the word more abstractly, like in terms of having a direct human interface to it, like using your finger on the iPhone's touchscreen almost like turning the page of a book, etc. I don't know how that would translate to a Segway, though - maybe something that made motion feel more immediate than just leaning.
Nah, that is just Jobs being Jobs. Trying to market himself as a design guy when in reality he is all marketing.
Its more interesting how he kept notes in his palm (nice way to have them without appearing to have them) and that he made the rest sit up when talking about staged roll-outs of models to maximize revenue.
Bezos on the other hand hit at the heart of the matter, that the thing didn't fit neatly inside any existing regulations.
Using a Segway on a college campus would be great.. Wish they had convinced campuses to buy them for students.
The unveiling was so lame.. People wearing khakis and super lame helmets and going over little bumps and looking so non-cool.. I watched way back when and was like... Uh... No.. First should not have helmets on.. Should have been very attractive people and should have showed how quickly they could get from point A to point B in style and comfort and convenience..
Some companies in the Bay had them for getting around campus and eventually got rid of them because of too many incidents, so the helmet and small bumps thing was probably for the best. I rode one and it seriously goes faster than I'd be comfortable ditching it. It's also very possible to fling yourself off, tip over, etc. I'm not generally comfortable with a transportation device until I find the limits (so I know where they are), but it was scarier than it should have been. You have to basically trust it not to slam your head into the pavement, but I guess I've just been around dodgy electronics long enough to not be so naive.
Then again, now we have electric longboards, which are like an order of magnitude more dangerous. At least with the longboard, you still have 4 wheels if all the electronics give out. Then again, some of the DIY stuff out there...I would not trust my life to a rPi descending a hill in SF with traffic. The foot brake always works.
I would say that ultimately the Segway was a failure, but that perception is partially affected by the hyperbolic hype that preceded it. I wonder what its own inventors think.
How popular did they expect it to get? How did they expect people to use it? How did they not foresee the backlash to its incredible dorkiness? Would a smaller, handle-less form factor (like the Chinese clones now known as "hoverboards") have been possible with the battery technology of the time?
Segway will always be tainted for me by the hyperbole that surrounded its launch.
"Steve Jobs, Apple's co-founder, predicted that in future cities would be designed around the device"
This was said before any of us knew what 'Ginger' was due to the secrecy surrounding it and its marketing hype.
In this context, it is a failure. I've barely ever even seen one of the things in the wild, and certainly haven't seen any cities redesigned for the Segway.
Riding a Segway telegraphs either "I am fit enough to balance standing on a moving platform, yet rich enough to drop several grand on a vehicle whose only benefit over a bicycle is not having to move my legs," or "I have respiratory issues." At least today's so-called "hoverboards" and electric skateboards are an order of magnitude more affordable (and transportable).
I wonder if an inexpensive automated rental model (à la HubWay or other bicycle sharing systems) could have been successful in negating the "rich douche" image by eliminating the price barrier. As it was, the multi-grand price tag and overall impracticality screamed "entitled".
It feels like failures on the scale of Segway are now pretty run of the mill. They "only" raised a 166MUSD [1]. Doesn't really compare to modern failures like Theranos, 686MUSD.
Hm. Calling it a failure is pretty strong. It is used. What hindered it was a) the expensive price and b) at least in many country it was/is illegal to use. Is it like a bike? Or like a motor vehicle and needs insurance and license tag? A drivers license? Can you ride it on pavement or do you have to use the street?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/11926027/Hoverboa....
> like the Chinese clones
A bit sad: Segway inc was bought up by one of these Chinese clone companies (Ninebot) for its patents.
I think the only way it really could have been revolutionary is if it were faster, smaller, lighter, and safer (both for riders and for people around them) at once. Think of something that doesn't measurably increase a human's form factor, slows to human speeds when around walkers but can go much faster otherwise, packs down to be easily carried, etc. Then you'd have the use case where an individual person could take walkways for car-commute distances. But since that wasn't possible, it ended up being a worst-of-many worlds kind of device - too unsafe (for riders) for roads, too unsafe (for pedestrians) for sidewalks, too slow (in practice) for its cost, too expensive for its benefits, too heavy, etc, etc.
This makes me miss Steve Jobs, a lot. So much of what he says seemed dead on about the struggles Segway faced. For all his faults, I think he had a great sense about what consumers wanted and loved about a product, as well as what would frustrate them or turn them off, and I think it's been one of Apple's struggles since he passed.
"suspected, as did Dean, that Doerr was setting them up for an ambush on his home turf"
Why the ambush? Was John Doerr previously trying to deliver the same message (that the product wasn't ready), but needed Jeff Bezos and Steve Jobs' firepower to finally convince Dean Kamen? The article only hints at it, but this sounds like there's a bit more drama in the Doerr/Kamen relationship.
It's hard to believe that if it was really going to take over the world, it would have mattered at all how it was launched, what the initial design of it looked like, who got a meeting the "king of Singapore", etc. Those sound like elements of a fad, not a lasting and significant part of technology.
[+] [-] Tiktaalik|9 years ago|reply
Bezos and Jobs were right. Bicycles have been around since the 19th century and yet city planners are still struggling against mainstream political opinion to be able to set aside dedicated space for their use. If most cities currently only barely tolerate bicycles, the Segway was certainly dead on arrival.
I think Jobs' idea for starting small at universities was a bit better of an idea than Bezos' idea of starting in a small country. Davis California for example is the most bike friendly city in America (20% mode share). That would have been the perfect place to start.
[+] [-] martincmartin|9 years ago|reply
To be fair, in the U.S., bicycle use has increased dramatically in the last decade or two, before the recent trend of adding bike lanes. Increased traffic congestion, including from cutbacks in public transit and city planning that emphasizes safety over car speed, have made cars less practical and increased biking a lot.
[+] [-] unknown|9 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] mjfl|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] forgottenpass|9 years ago|reply
Is this just trash talking a hometown you were glad to leave for the glamor of a big city, or do people actually think like this?
I've lived in big cites, and rural Maine, so I understand the fear of missing out that comes with it. But it's possible to have a social life anywhere, and we work online. Is there some startup culture thing that I'm not exposed to where zero commute and physically rubbing elbows is paradoxically more important than in fields less conductive to remote work?
[+] [-] cavemanmike|9 years ago|reply
http://www.unionleader.com/business/kamen-to-lead-294m-effor...
[+] [-] nahnh|9 years ago|reply
I think Jobs was right, you'd have a tough time convincing great talent to locate themselves there. Cost of living certainly is a factor, but it's only one of many.
[+] [-] pavlov|9 years ago|reply
Yet Snap seems to be doing quite well with its Spectacles resurrection of the Google Glass concept. Maybe Segway will also come back once someone cracks the design and youth-friendly branding?
[+] [-] rasz_pl|9 years ago|reply
and here are the products: https://www.walmart.com/tp/hoverboard
[+] [-] jdpedrie|9 years ago|reply
I think this is pretty key. Whenever I hear about Segway, my first thought is Gob Bluth from Arrested Development riding around on one with his name plastered across the control console.
[+] [-] mastazi|9 years ago|reply
I was wondering what exactly did Jobs mean when he said that the design was not "anthropomorphic". I mean, the shape of an iPhone does look very different from that of a human figure.
EDIT: perhaps he meant that it wasn't ergonomic?
[+] [-] empath75|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tunesmith|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] digi_owl|9 years ago|reply
Its more interesting how he kept notes in his palm (nice way to have them without appearing to have them) and that he made the rest sit up when talking about staged roll-outs of models to maximize revenue.
Bezos on the other hand hit at the heart of the matter, that the thing didn't fit neatly inside any existing regulations.
[+] [-] mdonahoe|9 years ago|reply
The Segway looks likes farm equipment
[+] [-] xt00|9 years ago|reply
The unveiling was so lame.. People wearing khakis and super lame helmets and going over little bumps and looking so non-cool.. I watched way back when and was like... Uh... No.. First should not have helmets on.. Should have been very attractive people and should have showed how quickly they could get from point A to point B in style and comfort and convenience..
[+] [-] seanp2k2|9 years ago|reply
Then again, now we have electric longboards, which are like an order of magnitude more dangerous. At least with the longboard, you still have 4 wheels if all the electronics give out. Then again, some of the DIY stuff out there...I would not trust my life to a rPi descending a hill in SF with traffic. The foot brake always works.
[+] [-] Angostura|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Camillo|9 years ago|reply
How popular did they expect it to get? How did they expect people to use it? How did they not foresee the backlash to its incredible dorkiness? Would a smaller, handle-less form factor (like the Chinese clones now known as "hoverboards") have been possible with the battery technology of the time?
[+] [-] bagels|9 years ago|reply
"Steve Jobs, Apple's co-founder, predicted that in future cities would be designed around the device"
This was said before any of us knew what 'Ginger' was due to the secrecy surrounding it and its marketing hype.
In this context, it is a failure. I've barely ever even seen one of the things in the wild, and certainly haven't seen any cities redesigned for the Segway.
[+] [-] colanderman|9 years ago|reply
I wonder if an inexpensive automated rental model (à la HubWay or other bicycle sharing systems) could have been successful in negating the "rich douche" image by eliminating the price barrier. As it was, the multi-grand price tag and overall impracticality screamed "entitled".
[+] [-] xja|9 years ago|reply
[1] https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/segway#/entity
[2] https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/theranos#/entity
[+] [-] ralfd|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tunesmith|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jonheller|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hugs|9 years ago|reply
Why the ambush? Was John Doerr previously trying to deliver the same message (that the product wasn't ready), but needed Jeff Bezos and Steve Jobs' firepower to finally convince Dean Kamen? The article only hints at it, but this sounds like there's a bit more drama in the Doerr/Kamen relationship.
[+] [-] Hondor|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|9 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] pinewurst|9 years ago|reply
https://www.amazon.com/Code-Name-Ginger-Behind-Segway/dp/157...
[+] [-] truftruf|9 years ago|reply
Advice every struggling startup needs to hear. Great products are rare and the best way to succeed is not to settle on product quality.
[+] [-] jayjay71|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] redsummer|9 years ago|reply