I don't really see why the whole foods hate is so hip. I shop there routinely and buy mostly the non packaged stuff. Organic vegetables and fruits are cheaper than in most chains and I really have not found any other place where I can get grass fed (tasty), pasteurized (convenient), non homogenized (yes it makes a difference. In taste and texture and arguably healthier) milk. Of course I do not buy the silly precut fruits and stuff. But if someone finds it convenient and doesn't mind spending the money I don't care. But in the end I shop there because most stuff there is made from good simple ingredients and I don't have to spend a long time reading ingredient lists especially the ones that changes often
> I don't really see why the whole foods hate is so hip.
I think there has long been a resentment of them.
20 years ago I did some technical work for a natural foods broker. They knew the wholesale price for all sorts of organic and alternative foodstuffs. They were just astounded by Whole Foods markups as compared with other vendors. If I recall rightly, the Whole Foods marketing also rubbed them the wrong way; it had strong class-based elements, taking the natural foods industry from a "power to the people" feel to a "this is fancy and high class" feel.
In a business sense, they've clearly done well by it. They're at the intersection of rising inequality and rising concern over what we eat. But that limits them too; trying for "mass-market luxury" is a precarious position. You end up resented by the true luxury fans as cheapening something they care about. And other companies, ones not constrained by luxury, can go after the mass-market end of things. Plus they still have the essential contradiction between commercial exploitation and the natural do-goodery of the organic foods types.
So the hate seems pretty plausible to me. Their old shtick is working less well; the grocery market is really different 20 years on. They'll need to find a new shtick, but I don't think that will be an easy transition.
My gripe with wholefoods goes beyond the price. I take issue with their business ethics and general operating philosophy. It's a pretty typical appeal to the "conscious" consumer that will only look skin deep when making a decision about products. It's a kind of slacktivism, wholefoods marketing team tells me that they care about the environment and the small farmer so surely buying from them is the most ethical consumption.
I believe it is misleading though. The company's only goal is profit and this is very evident when you hear their libertarian CEO speak. He's a sociopath preying on the good will of middle class liberals. Combine that with the exploitation of cheap prison labour as a perfect example of the company's principles in execution and it just leaves a bad taste with those seasonal organic vegetables.
Edit: If you really want to get tasty, fresh, sustainable, local, and organic food then join or start a local food co-operative. This gets everyone a fair price for high quality products along with paying people fairly for their produce and work. It's also completely democratic so all practices are decided upon by the members and not just by some megalomanic CEO or greedy shareholders.
The comments here are almost exclusively about the price and quality of products, with "store x has basically the same thing for less money" being a common theme.
Whole Foods nails the shopping experience for those who care about intangibles. It's always clean. It's always well stocked. They have very educated cashiers who can move lines quickly and make autonomous decisions when an item doesn't ring up. They can give $100 cash back so I don't need to hit the ATM ever. They don't have those horrendously buggy self checkouts.
If you can trade money for time and convenience, WF is a great experience. After getting used to it, other stores are frustrating to me.
> Organic vegetables and fruits are cheaper than in most chains
I recently discovered the above, and after paying attention there are many items that are less expensive at WF. The whole fresh fruits and vegetables are the same price or cheaper than other local chains, and are also very high quality. The only place that beats them on price is Walmart, but quality is hit and miss (normally miss).
I have found beer and wine to be $1-$2 cheaper at WF than local chains. Not everything of course, but I tend to keep the same wine and beer around the house so I notice pricing. Good cheese can also be had for less money at WF. The WF brand whole bean coffee is also cheaper than anything else I have found locally.
If frugality is the goal I have found that for most packaged stuff Walmart is the way to go. Then WF for fruits and veggies, and finally Harris Teeter (local chain in the south) for meats (never ending special boneless/skinless chicken breasts are always $1.99/lb).
I routinely shop there as well, generally speaking, their fruits and vegetables despite being a tad more expensive are of higher quality than most places. I've also observed that WF stores usually have sufficient mancount to deliver decent checkout performances. The staff is always friendly and helpful and the cashiers in particular always impress me with their handling of the mandatory sterile discussion. When they ask me whether I would like a second bag, I sometimes feel them genuinely worried about what could happen otherwise.
I don't really see a business analysis as band wagon whole foods hate, if you're referring to the article.
However, the lawsuit they faced with 'vegetable infused water' without the vegetables was a pretty serious black mark against them that people didn't forget.
> non homogenized (yes it makes a difference. In taste and texture and arguably healthier)
Could you elaborate on this? What's the argument for non-homogenized milk being healthier?
Per Wikipedia: "The fat in milk normally separates from the water and collects at the top. Homogenization breaks the fat into smaller sizes so it no longer separates, allowing the sale of non-separating milk at any fat specification."
I just don't understand how smaller fat particles are less healthy than large ones at the top (apart from perhaps the liquid milk being fattier, in which case you can simply buy milk with less fat).
"I don't really see why the whole foods hate is so hip." Then you must not have many choices available in your area to get the same items for less. Natural Grocers, Aldi, Trader Joe's, Market of Choice, New Seasons, Sprouts...the list goes on and on.
It might be the case that this hate is not even grounded in a realistic financial assessment of the company. The reaction of Wall St. to this earnings report, which the WaPo presents as a sign of collapse, was, in fact, bullish. The stock closed up a few percent ($30.35) the next day from the previous day's close ($29.30). If you look more closely at their strategy, it seems like they're trying to enter a slower growth phase, where they simply focus on the markets that provide them steady profits. They are closing a few stores, but those stores were older, poorly performing locations.
I can offer a more personal perspective: I currently live in the Bay Area but spend a fair amount of time in Manhattan, as well. When shopping in California, I essentially never go to Whole Foods because the produce prices are ridiculous in comparison to the high quality local grocers near my home. In Manhattan, however, I nearly exclusively shop at Whole Foods because the produce is reliably good, the 365 products are affordable, and the prices are fairly competitive (if not better than) many other options. Of course, there are less expensive stores that I could go to in New York, but they generally don't offer the convenience or quality.
I tend to agree that the fresh fruits and veggies are pretty much the same price as competitors (really only experience is Safeway)
What I do find as a plus is Whole Foods tends to get more stuff locally if they can and a store like Safeway is going more regional or to Mexico to keep its costs down.
I'll pay a little more to have my fresh food being sourced locally and more time to ripen on the vine then ripen in a truck.
Our local Kroger has that along with tons of cheap, organic stuff. They also focus on quality of produce, service, etc. They can't match Whole Foods in how well the store is run since they're cut-throat in cost cutting. They do just good enough that all kinds of customers tolerate them. Gabriel's Worse is Better applied to grocery stores haha.
I'm totally unsurprised by the article seeing Walmart, Costco, and Kroger are one-stop shops for regular and organic items at much cheaper prices. I expected this to happen to Whole Foods. They should double down on the better shopping experience (less crowds) and offering obscure items big retails are too greedy to carry.
I like their food/produce and generally consider it a good value. Their wine selection/prices are surprisingly weak though.
The only thing I hate them for is selling/promoting snake oil. My guess is a lot of the hate towards Whole Foods is their clientele being perceived as snobby/out of touch/"richer than I am".
> I don't really see why the whole foods hate is so hip
I think it's probably because they tried to capitalize on selling "non-GMO" products, which is a huge marketing scam that some consumers are finally wising up to.
Don't believe me? Go find me some GMO oranges. Or GMO cilantro. Or GMO chocolate. Or GMO lettuce. Or GMO anything other than corn and soybeans.
Want to know why you can't find them? Because they don't exist. That doesn't stop companies like Whole Foods from slapping a "non-GMO" label on them and charging 2x the price of Safeway.
Most if not all WFM stores hold tours for customers to teach how to affordably shop WFM. Ask about it.
The TL;DR is only buy fresh vegetables, single-item bulks, fruit, meats, and seafood in descending order of volume/mass. The less processing and packaging, the better as a rule of thumb. Round out very sparingly with exceptions.
This is how we should shop regardless of store. Mackey has publicly admitted he vastly regrets taking WFM to Wall Street. I get the impression if most customers shopped as described above, crushing profit margins, in the absence of shareholder pressure to change WFM's real mission and cost him strategic control, and the profits are self-sustained, he wouldn't mind.
I'd like to see more feedback from others on whether or not they noticed WFM's efforts to broaden beyond just an organic label. They did try, and to a smaller extent are still trying (meat stages are a prominent example), and are trying not to antagonize regulatory stakeholders by pointing out the mainstream organic label is deficient in many ways, but by and large it seems most of their customer base is more concerned about labels than actually delivering change.
If you think of it as a 'guilt tax' it makes a lot more sense, and also the direction these stores need to go to improve profits. It's never really been about the food itself: it's been about selling a positive self image. It's a reaction to the abundance of media showing modern chicken coops and mass migrant vegetable labour.
Once you understand that, you understand why the label is the single most important thing, and the less real details supplied the better. Any details you supply serves to break the facade that the organic label means you're doing good deeds - because ultimately, you're still killing that chicken. It's why "efforts to broaden beyond just an organic label" are doomed before they begin and will hurt sales more than they help.
>Mackey has publicly admitted he vastly regrets taking WFM to Wall Street.
Same story we hear from Silicon Valley on occasion: they regret the loss of control of the company, but not the massive payday.
The fact that this chain suffers because there is so much competition for better produce is net positive. Whole Foods doesn't exist where I come from. But big chains with organic sections (even discount chains) do.
Basic problem: "Organic" food production costs are not that much higher than "inorganic" (?) food.[1] Maybe 10-20%. But the retail markups average 85%. As organic farming has become larger and more efficient, Whole Foods' competitors have cut prices, killing Whole Foods' margins.
Whole Foods relies on high-margin items. The checkout areas are stuffed with homeopathic remedies, which are overpriced water. Now that's a markup.
My perspective is maybe a little different from the rest of the country's. In NYC all of the stores are really expensive and quality control is pretty bad. Produce and product choices are limited and quality is absolutely terrible. Whole Foods is actually one of the less expensive grocery stores. The quality is easily the best in the neighborhood. The employees are noticeably nicer, and I can pay with my phone. They do have some local suppliers, which Gristedies doesn't. Lastly, and probably least important to everyone but it's a pet-peeve of mine, the ice cream hasn't thawed and frozen in to a brick (a common side-effect of living on an island, frozen things get melted).
Gristedes is a joke. Not sure why that's your go-to comparison.
Have you tried some more affordable "normal" supermarkets like Key Foods, C Town, Western Beef, etc? You might still complain about quality (don't know your standards), but you won't be complaining about price at least any more.
Trader Joe's is also fantastic (good quality, good deals on anything-but-produce, get that from C Town instead), if you can bear the lines (the wait time is not as bad as it looks) or just come in at an off-peak time.
The bullshit parts about Whole Foods were bullshit a decade ago.
The difference is that their quality has declined and others are catching up. The food bar was near restaurant quality in 2006, now it's slop at 3x the cost. You also have to be careful about date labels, my local store will relabel old inventory and add a few weeks to the sell by dare.
Also, Amazon impacts them harder because WF lost their monopoly on weird organic product.
It's the typical big company story. They grew too fast. I'm sure the supply chain is a shitshow.
my local store will relabel old inventory and add a few weeks to the sell by dare
Can you elaborate on this?
I totally agree with your other point that others are catching up and I think they realized they don't need to have an entire organic store just certain key items(grass fed beef, good produce to make everyone happy.
> The bullshit parts about Whole Foods were bullshit a decade ago.
What you say is very interesting as I have often heard people tell me how much better the quality of their products was when they 'started'. As I have precisely only lived in the US for a decade, I'd be very curious to know how the evolution of quality for regular stores such as Safeway, or other supermarkets of similar standing where people with working class wages can fill a whole cart.
I sort of have the intuition that there must have been sort of a shift in the past 20 years, possibly when the GMOs were imposed to Americans, where Excellent food became Regular and Regular food became Substandard. Now I realize I might just be somewhere close to entirely wrong right there :P
* Whole Foods produce is bad. We get better produce at our local major grocery chain, and much better at the Mexican grocery.
* Whole Foods bet big on prepared food; about 1/4 of our local Whole Foods is essentially a food court.
* Whole Foods has a sort of Trader Joe's phenomenon where the place is gradually filling up with house brand stuff. But unlike TJ's, WF's house brands aren't relabeled good outside brands; they're mostly pretty bad, and WF tends to carry them to the exclusion of any other product, so I can get 5 different kinds of chicken stock at a big chain grocer and just WF's house brand at WF.
Things Whole Foods in Chicagoland is better at than other grocers:
* Meat.
* Seasonal vegetables; no other grocer is going to carry ramps this May.
* Jewel's produce is fine, but as you note it's hard to find much of anything outside of the typical fruits and veggies. It's also highly dependent on the individual store.
* Mariano's is god-awful produce wise, so can't imagine that's what you're talking about. Which Mexican produce store?
* Coincidentally, I did this check very recently and can guarantee you that WF stocks 4-5 different brands of chicken stock.
But why does that matter? Ultimately, my research revealed the best price/quality sweet spot for stock was Kirkland (shocker!). Which only proves the point: single item (the TJ's approach) might be all the market really demands. Now admittedly, if the 365 brand isn't quality, that's a problem.
Things you are right about:
* WF way over-invested in prepared foods, probably because the markup is so damn high. Problem is, as another poster noted, the quality used to be consistently pretty high, but is now closer to slop.
* Your list of what WF excels at...with one huge omission: bulk raw ingredients.
But again, same question. Going by the rule that the outside of the store (fresh foods) is where you want to eat most of your food from anyway — if WF is consistently better at the majority of what we should be buying, what's the issue?
> Whole Foods bet big on prepared food; about 1/4 of our local Whole Foods is essentially a food court.
I think this is also what led everyone to feel/think that WF is 100% more expensive than anywhere else. After trying the food court awhile back, and paying what was essentially $20 for a tiny box of food, it took me years to try WF again.
You don't mention where you are... where I'm at (central Phoenix), I feel that sprouts does better at most produce, and the higher end Fry's do better at most of the rest. Basha's and Costco beats most in terms of meat imho, but I'll go to the handful of local butchers sometimes, it just depends on what I'm looking for.
Why do you trust the whole foods brand? Do you think the libertarian CEO goes to china to verify the ingredients are actually grown organically? Do you think the bush administration holdover in charge of the organic label goes to china to verify things are grown organically? I don't trust china, john mackey, or the FDA to guarantee genuine organic.
Whole Foods just opened a new store in North Berkeley that no one wanted, and was in the midst of four! other natural grocery stores. They then had the gall to offer almost entirely their 365 brand of subpar products, compared to the very premium offers of their counterparts in the area. They are somewhat busy, but never packed, as locals all prefer the far better offerings at neighborhood locations.
As soon as they opened that store I realized someone at HQ was either clueless or arrogantly thought theyd just move in and dominate. Looks like they are getting their just desserts.
So, where I live, we don't have things like Whole Foods and Sprouts. We have a tiny little specialty store in town that carries a very small amount of interesting, but expensive, organic and whatnot brands (but almost invariably, not what I'm looking for, but they're always willing to order it and sell it to me for far more than I can just order online for)....
I've seen people both worship and shit on Whole Foods, have seen Sprouts described as a "Whole Foods that didn't sell its soul to Wall Street", and I've heard Trader Joes described as "half a grocery store, so you can't do all your shopping there, but its the half you want".
We have two national chains in town with big stores, a couple smaller quasi-chains (IGA, etc), and a Super Walmart, so its not like its some out of the place hole in the wall....
So, what's the draw of Whole Foods (and by extension, Sprouts and the other clones)?
Well, why should I shop at Whole Foods when I can go to Sprouts (or some other alternative) and get basically the same thing for almost regular/non-organic prices?
Then again, the fine article says Sprouts et al are also hurting...
I was surprised it said Sprouts was also in trouble, the one near us seems to get lots of business and we go there every week as well, for produce sometimes their organic stuff is even cheaper than Safeway's conventional produce so it's a no-brainer. IMO the only way Sprouts could improve is being bigger, still end up having to go to Safeway for lots of stuff Sprouts doesn't carry...but Whole Foods isn't even in the equation for us.
Lot of the comments talk about co-op as an alternative to whole foods. I live in Houston Texas. Other than " There in lies the problem" can some suggest a reasonable alternative for getting some good organic vegetables and fruits. The farmers markets are usually honey, eggs and beef stalls. The co-ops I have found usually are higher price per pound than whole foods. Traders Joe here has limited selection of everything. HEB is OK but not many organic choices for milk and meat.
I understand this has nothing to do with the article. Are there any good options for people in biggish cities away from southern California. Gosh I miss those farmers markets..
This is aside from the organic thing, but probably plays a part.
I've had two friends work there for over a year, one in the 90s and one in the past couple of years, and in both cases, management was just grinding through employees. The recent run ended when they cut employees and expanded duties for the remaining folks (two or more jobs now in one), with no increase in pay and no increase in technology at hand to justify the ability of one person doing what used to take two in full-time shifts.
Yeahhh he quit soon after that. I tended to avoid WF in favor of Trader Joe's, Sprouts, Natural Grocers, and straight from farmers, but after hearing how they treat their employees, again, that's just one more reason not to give them business...
> Apart from shuttering stores and stalling expansion plans, the company is continuing to focus on 365 by Whole Foods, a two-year-old division aimed at launching stores for “value-conscious” consumers.
Without a doubt, generic organics is where we are going.
I don't often shop at Whole Foods because I can't get my whole list there for a reasonable price compared to buying mostly a mix of organic and Simple Truth at Kroger. It's not worth making a separate trip just for a few things. If WF zoned in on this space more that could change things.
I stopped shopping there because the quality of both their produce and their salad bar food plummeted a year ago. Their fruit isn't as fresh as it used to be, and they now serve the same cheap slop at their salad/hot bar. There isn't much variety anymore, either. These things are true of any Whole Foods in SoCal I'd been visiting. I also question how well they treat their employees since they all seem perpetually malcontented. Meanwhile, Trader Joes employees continue to behave genuinely friendly and seem relatively happy. I even prefer shopping at Sprouts which doesn't have as big a selection(aside from their massive supplements section) but it's a less pretentious atmosphere and has more reasonably priced produce that's actually fresh.
Millenials(pukes in own mouth for using said term) aren't as brand-loyal as their parents were and are quick to ditch a brand when something better & faster comes along. Just because they're "Whole Foods" doesn't mean that they can stay complacent or start behaving like an average grocery store without sudden consequences.
Whole Foods is pretty awful when it comes to pricing. Sure they can up-charge for convenience, but when I'm out and about and want something like sliced up mango spears, why should I be paying 10+ dollars for 1.5 or 2 mangos sliced up? I could just get a couple for maybe 2 bucks at a regular grocery store and just carry a knife with me to do it myself at that point.
I'm surprised that the 365 concept does not have an in-house butcher. I think it strongly strongly correlates with the quality of meat. I've seen many friends go to Whole Foods just for fresh meat, then Trader Joes for everything else.
I stopped going to whole foods after getting food poisoning from a lunch buffet plate that cost $18. They overcharge, and don't deliver the quality to justify the markup.
> "As has been reported in the media, our New York City stores were audited by the New York City Department of Consumer Affairs (DCA) for weights-and-measures errors, such as those that cause improper price labeling on some of the products that are produced, packaged and labeled in our stores."
[+] [-] anu7df|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wpietri|9 years ago|reply
I think there has long been a resentment of them.
20 years ago I did some technical work for a natural foods broker. They knew the wholesale price for all sorts of organic and alternative foodstuffs. They were just astounded by Whole Foods markups as compared with other vendors. If I recall rightly, the Whole Foods marketing also rubbed them the wrong way; it had strong class-based elements, taking the natural foods industry from a "power to the people" feel to a "this is fancy and high class" feel.
In a business sense, they've clearly done well by it. They're at the intersection of rising inequality and rising concern over what we eat. But that limits them too; trying for "mass-market luxury" is a precarious position. You end up resented by the true luxury fans as cheapening something they care about. And other companies, ones not constrained by luxury, can go after the mass-market end of things. Plus they still have the essential contradiction between commercial exploitation and the natural do-goodery of the organic foods types.
So the hate seems pretty plausible to me. Their old shtick is working less well; the grocery market is really different 20 years on. They'll need to find a new shtick, but I don't think that will be an easy transition.
[+] [-] kiliantics|9 years ago|reply
I believe it is misleading though. The company's only goal is profit and this is very evident when you hear their libertarian CEO speak. He's a sociopath preying on the good will of middle class liberals. Combine that with the exploitation of cheap prison labour as a perfect example of the company's principles in execution and it just leaves a bad taste with those seasonal organic vegetables.
Edit: If you really want to get tasty, fresh, sustainable, local, and organic food then join or start a local food co-operative. This gets everyone a fair price for high quality products along with paying people fairly for their produce and work. It's also completely democratic so all practices are decided upon by the members and not just by some megalomanic CEO or greedy shareholders.
[+] [-] aczerepinski|9 years ago|reply
Whole Foods nails the shopping experience for those who care about intangibles. It's always clean. It's always well stocked. They have very educated cashiers who can move lines quickly and make autonomous decisions when an item doesn't ring up. They can give $100 cash back so I don't need to hit the ATM ever. They don't have those horrendously buggy self checkouts.
If you can trade money for time and convenience, WF is a great experience. After getting used to it, other stores are frustrating to me.
[+] [-] matwood|9 years ago|reply
I recently discovered the above, and after paying attention there are many items that are less expensive at WF. The whole fresh fruits and vegetables are the same price or cheaper than other local chains, and are also very high quality. The only place that beats them on price is Walmart, but quality is hit and miss (normally miss).
I have found beer and wine to be $1-$2 cheaper at WF than local chains. Not everything of course, but I tend to keep the same wine and beer around the house so I notice pricing. Good cheese can also be had for less money at WF. The WF brand whole bean coffee is also cheaper than anything else I have found locally.
If frugality is the goal I have found that for most packaged stuff Walmart is the way to go. Then WF for fruits and veggies, and finally Harris Teeter (local chain in the south) for meats (never ending special boneless/skinless chicken breasts are always $1.99/lb).
[+] [-] vidoc|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] carlmcqueen|9 years ago|reply
However, the lawsuit they faced with 'vegetable infused water' without the vegetables was a pretty serious black mark against them that people didn't forget.
[+] [-] Veratyr|9 years ago|reply
Could you elaborate on this? What's the argument for non-homogenized milk being healthier?
Per Wikipedia: "The fat in milk normally separates from the water and collects at the top. Homogenization breaks the fat into smaller sizes so it no longer separates, allowing the sale of non-separating milk at any fat specification."
I just don't understand how smaller fat particles are less healthy than large ones at the top (apart from perhaps the liquid milk being fattier, in which case you can simply buy milk with less fat).
[+] [-] gregd|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rotskoff|9 years ago|reply
I can offer a more personal perspective: I currently live in the Bay Area but spend a fair amount of time in Manhattan, as well. When shopping in California, I essentially never go to Whole Foods because the produce prices are ridiculous in comparison to the high quality local grocers near my home. In Manhattan, however, I nearly exclusively shop at Whole Foods because the produce is reliably good, the 365 products are affordable, and the prices are fairly competitive (if not better than) many other options. Of course, there are less expensive stores that I could go to in New York, but they generally don't offer the convenience or quality.
[+] [-] e40|9 years ago|reply
That is clearly not the case in the Bay Area. Whole Foods is the most expensive place you can shop around here.
[+] [-] hijinks|9 years ago|reply
What I do find as a plus is Whole Foods tends to get more stuff locally if they can and a store like Safeway is going more regional or to Mexico to keep its costs down.
I'll pay a little more to have my fresh food being sourced locally and more time to ripen on the vine then ripen in a truck.
[+] [-] nickpsecurity|9 years ago|reply
I'm totally unsurprised by the article seeing Walmart, Costco, and Kroger are one-stop shops for regular and organic items at much cheaper prices. I expected this to happen to Whole Foods. They should double down on the better shopping experience (less crowds) and offering obscure items big retails are too greedy to carry.
[+] [-] dominotw|9 years ago|reply
exibit A: Whole Foods' $6 Asparagus Water Is Just Water With Three Stalks of Asparagus in It
http://www.eater.com/2015/8/3/9090797/whole-foods-asparagus-...
[+] [-] fullshark|9 years ago|reply
The only thing I hate them for is selling/promoting snake oil. My guess is a lot of the hate towards Whole Foods is their clientele being perceived as snobby/out of touch/"richer than I am".
[+] [-] Alex3917|9 years ago|reply
If Whole Foods is the only thing in your area it's not a bad option, but it's definitely possible to do much better.
[+] [-] seattle_spring|9 years ago|reply
I think it's probably because they tried to capitalize on selling "non-GMO" products, which is a huge marketing scam that some consumers are finally wising up to.
Don't believe me? Go find me some GMO oranges. Or GMO cilantro. Or GMO chocolate. Or GMO lettuce. Or GMO anything other than corn and soybeans.
Want to know why you can't find them? Because they don't exist. That doesn't stop companies like Whole Foods from slapping a "non-GMO" label on them and charging 2x the price of Safeway.
[+] [-] yourapostasy|9 years ago|reply
The TL;DR is only buy fresh vegetables, single-item bulks, fruit, meats, and seafood in descending order of volume/mass. The less processing and packaging, the better as a rule of thumb. Round out very sparingly with exceptions.
This is how we should shop regardless of store. Mackey has publicly admitted he vastly regrets taking WFM to Wall Street. I get the impression if most customers shopped as described above, crushing profit margins, in the absence of shareholder pressure to change WFM's real mission and cost him strategic control, and the profits are self-sustained, he wouldn't mind.
I'd like to see more feedback from others on whether or not they noticed WFM's efforts to broaden beyond just an organic label. They did try, and to a smaller extent are still trying (meat stages are a prominent example), and are trying not to antagonize regulatory stakeholders by pointing out the mainstream organic label is deficient in many ways, but by and large it seems most of their customer base is more concerned about labels than actually delivering change.
[+] [-] RyanZAG|9 years ago|reply
Once you understand that, you understand why the label is the single most important thing, and the less real details supplied the better. Any details you supply serves to break the facade that the organic label means you're doing good deeds - because ultimately, you're still killing that chicken. It's why "efforts to broaden beyond just an organic label" are doomed before they begin and will hurt sales more than they help.
[+] [-] idiot_stick|9 years ago|reply
Same story we hear from Silicon Valley on occasion: they regret the loss of control of the company, but not the massive payday.
The fact that this chain suffers because there is so much competition for better produce is net positive. Whole Foods doesn't exist where I come from. But big chains with organic sections (even discount chains) do.
[+] [-] unknown|9 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] massysett|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Animats|9 years ago|reply
Whole Foods relies on high-margin items. The checkout areas are stuffed with homeopathic remedies, which are overpriced water. Now that's a markup.
[1] https://attra.ncat.org/attra-pub/download.php?id=419
[+] [-] headShrinker|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] galdosdi|9 years ago|reply
Have you tried some more affordable "normal" supermarkets like Key Foods, C Town, Western Beef, etc? You might still complain about quality (don't know your standards), but you won't be complaining about price at least any more.
Trader Joe's is also fantastic (good quality, good deals on anything-but-produce, get that from C Town instead), if you can bear the lines (the wait time is not as bad as it looks) or just come in at an off-peak time.
[+] [-] nathanvanfleet|9 years ago|reply
What?
[+] [-] untilHellbanned|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Spooky23|9 years ago|reply
The difference is that their quality has declined and others are catching up. The food bar was near restaurant quality in 2006, now it's slop at 3x the cost. You also have to be careful about date labels, my local store will relabel old inventory and add a few weeks to the sell by dare.
Also, Amazon impacts them harder because WF lost their monopoly on weird organic product.
It's the typical big company story. They grew too fast. I'm sure the supply chain is a shitshow.
[+] [-] rickdale|9 years ago|reply
Can you elaborate on this?
I totally agree with your other point that others are catching up and I think they realized they don't need to have an entire organic store just certain key items(grass fed beef, good produce to make everyone happy.
[+] [-] vidoc|9 years ago|reply
What you say is very interesting as I have often heard people tell me how much better the quality of their products was when they 'started'. As I have precisely only lived in the US for a decade, I'd be very curious to know how the evolution of quality for regular stores such as Safeway, or other supermarkets of similar standing where people with working class wages can fill a whole cart.
I sort of have the intuition that there must have been sort of a shift in the past 20 years, possibly when the GMOs were imposed to Americans, where Excellent food became Regular and Regular food became Substandard. Now I realize I might just be somewhere close to entirely wrong right there :P
[+] [-] tptacek|9 years ago|reply
* Whole Foods bet big on prepared food; about 1/4 of our local Whole Foods is essentially a food court.
* Whole Foods has a sort of Trader Joe's phenomenon where the place is gradually filling up with house brand stuff. But unlike TJ's, WF's house brands aren't relabeled good outside brands; they're mostly pretty bad, and WF tends to carry them to the exclusion of any other product, so I can get 5 different kinds of chicken stock at a big chain grocer and just WF's house brand at WF.
Things Whole Foods in Chicagoland is better at than other grocers:
* Meat.
* Seasonal vegetables; no other grocer is going to carry ramps this May.
* Cheese.
* A decent house-brand olive oil.
I think that's it.
[+] [-] Gorbzel|9 years ago|reply
* Jewel's produce is fine, but as you note it's hard to find much of anything outside of the typical fruits and veggies. It's also highly dependent on the individual store.
* Mariano's is god-awful produce wise, so can't imagine that's what you're talking about. Which Mexican produce store?
* Coincidentally, I did this check very recently and can guarantee you that WF stocks 4-5 different brands of chicken stock.
But why does that matter? Ultimately, my research revealed the best price/quality sweet spot for stock was Kirkland (shocker!). Which only proves the point: single item (the TJ's approach) might be all the market really demands. Now admittedly, if the 365 brand isn't quality, that's a problem.
Things you are right about:
* WF way over-invested in prepared foods, probably because the markup is so damn high. Problem is, as another poster noted, the quality used to be consistently pretty high, but is now closer to slop.
* Your list of what WF excels at...with one huge omission: bulk raw ingredients.
But again, same question. Going by the rule that the outside of the store (fresh foods) is where you want to eat most of your food from anyway — if WF is consistently better at the majority of what we should be buying, what's the issue?
[+] [-] matwood|9 years ago|reply
I think this is also what led everyone to feel/think that WF is 100% more expensive than anywhere else. After trying the food court awhile back, and paying what was essentially $20 for a tiny box of food, it took me years to try WF again.
[+] [-] tracker1|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] robotjosh|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tsunamifury|9 years ago|reply
As soon as they opened that store I realized someone at HQ was either clueless or arrogantly thought theyd just move in and dominate. Looks like they are getting their just desserts.
[+] [-] Raed667|9 years ago|reply
In France for example 'bio' tagged food is getting cheaper everyday, some products are sometimes even cheaper than their counter-part.
[+] [-] DiabloD3|9 years ago|reply
I've seen people both worship and shit on Whole Foods, have seen Sprouts described as a "Whole Foods that didn't sell its soul to Wall Street", and I've heard Trader Joes described as "half a grocery store, so you can't do all your shopping there, but its the half you want".
We have two national chains in town with big stores, a couple smaller quasi-chains (IGA, etc), and a Super Walmart, so its not like its some out of the place hole in the wall....
So, what's the draw of Whole Foods (and by extension, Sprouts and the other clones)?
[+] [-] kobeya|9 years ago|reply
Then again, the fine article says Sprouts et al are also hurting...
[+] [-] wanderr|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] anu7df|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dota_fanatic|9 years ago|reply
I've had two friends work there for over a year, one in the 90s and one in the past couple of years, and in both cases, management was just grinding through employees. The recent run ended when they cut employees and expanded duties for the remaining folks (two or more jobs now in one), with no increase in pay and no increase in technology at hand to justify the ability of one person doing what used to take two in full-time shifts.
Yeahhh he quit soon after that. I tended to avoid WF in favor of Trader Joe's, Sprouts, Natural Grocers, and straight from farmers, but after hearing how they treat their employees, again, that's just one more reason not to give them business...
[+] [-] socrates1998|9 years ago|reply
I am in South Florida and it's the most expensive grocery store by far, like 20-30% it feels like for almost the same items.
This is subjective for sure.
Publix Greenwise stores and brand has done a really good job of giving me what I want for a lot cheaper.
Now, I feel like Whole foods has better quality, but it's just not worth the almost ~30% premium I feel like I pay when I shop there.
Also, Trader Joe's just opened up here and that place is so much better.
Really, I don't want to pay that huge ass premium.
[+] [-] tedmiston|9 years ago|reply
Without a doubt, generic organics is where we are going.
I don't often shop at Whole Foods because I can't get my whole list there for a reasonable price compared to buying mostly a mix of organic and Simple Truth at Kroger. It's not worth making a separate trip just for a few things. If WF zoned in on this space more that could change things.
[+] [-] ravenstine|9 years ago|reply
Millenials(pukes in own mouth for using said term) aren't as brand-loyal as their parents were and are quick to ditch a brand when something better & faster comes along. Just because they're "Whole Foods" doesn't mean that they can stay complacent or start behaving like an average grocery store without sudden consequences.
[+] [-] MengerSponge|9 years ago|reply
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/foods-accused-overcharging-ex...
[+] [-] spike021|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] london888|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] philip1209|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] patsplat|9 years ago|reply
http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/blog/addressing-grocery-weig...
> "As has been reported in the media, our New York City stores were audited by the New York City Department of Consumer Affairs (DCA) for weights-and-measures errors, such as those that cause improper price labeling on some of the products that are produced, packaged and labeled in our stores."