It's probably a cultural thing. In India...We ate after 8 all the time. 6.00 is when you get the last installment of caffeine..as tea or coffee. But then again, we were not allowed to come back home until after sunset. Play outside till sunset, homework time afterward, dinner and then a little walk/tv time and then off to bed. Elsewhere...Asian outdoor markets thrive until midnight. In my suburban town in America, everything is dead by 8. It's a tad depressing actually.
I think it's weather related. In most countries that have late night outdoor markets, temperatures are unbearably hot during the day, and comfortably warm at night.
In much of North America, half the year is only tolerably warm during the day.
Another Indian here. I don't know if, ever, I have had dinner before 8 in my entire life here or maybe not even before 9pm. I mean I am sure I would have a couple of times but I just can't remember. Dinner for us meant the thing you do before you sleep.
They thrive past midnight. Especially in more southern locales in the summer, when it isn't even reasonable outside until after 8. Changsha, Guangzhou, Wuhan, etc....
I have a friend who eats 3000~4000 kcals with no exercise and he is as thin as a stick. I have another friend who is a complete couch potato and eats junk food all day with no exercise, and he looks like a gym rat.
I think a lot of the magical thinking surrounding weight loss is because there's no one-size-fits-all solution, so people make up patterns in their heads and believe them to be true.
You're right and you're wrong. The problem is we don't even know what "overeating" is yet on an individual basis. Some people can pack away thousands of calories a day, not do a lick of exercise, and be fine. Others (like me) have to severely restrain their eating (to say less than 1500 calories a day) to prevent weight gain.
Once we figure out how to accurately measure basic metabolic process, we'll have gone a long way toward figuring out this woeful conundrum.
The question is what causes overeating. With some people it's obviously bad habits, but we also know that thyroid problems, anxiety, adhd and other brain issues can cause overeating.
This kind of attitude is just FUD -- nothing can be learned from adopting your point of view, because you're convinced the problem is "solved" and not worth discussing, yet your assertion is not proven.
Also even basic metabolic science disproves your claim. If your immune system attacks your pancreas and damages your ability to produce insulin you will lose weight even if you stuff your face constantly, and if you inject insulin you will have trouble burning fat even when you have low glucose levels.
What I don't understand is why people cling to this weirdly puritanical belief obesity is purely the sin of gluttony when its clear scientifically that weight gain and loss are controlled by hormones
That's a tautology, the question is why. What causes overeating and why do some people have great difficulty with it?
It's clearly not as simple as thinking to yourself, "I'd like to eat just enough today such that I don't overeat." Why are some bodies able to regulate caloric intake and others aren't?
it may not lead to weight gain but is still healthy to eat late dinners?
If you have chronic acid reflux (GERD), eating late makes it worse (acid comes back up when you lie down after a meal)
Eating late can also lead to worse sleep as your body is spending energy digesting food rather than repairing itself.
Personally I feel much more refreshed the next day, when dinner is around 6pm and when it is the lightest meal of the day. Practical issues aside, i cant think of any health benefits eating a late dinner.
There obviously is a link between the span of eating and your weight. But it's not as big, when you eat large quantities of food.
If we are talking about obesity it means that it took years to put someone in that state. Eating 300-500 of unhealthy kcal less, by decreasing the eating span just delays the problem.
I do agree though, that the shorter eating span the better. It's called intermittent fasting and there are promising results coming out from research on that.
There was a paper published recently (within last year or two) that looked at the time between first meal and last meal of the day in mice. In general, they found that the shorter time between first and last meal had a significant correlation on weight loss. For example if the time between breakfast and dinner was 10 hours instead of 14 hours, the 10 hour mice weighed less than the 14 hour mice, even on the same diet.
I can't find the citation right now but if I do I will edit the comment.
I'm commenting to express interest in that citation, and will go looking for it myself if you don't find it.
If I had to bullshit a mechanism, I would say that, for well fed mice, activity increases with the amount of time since the last meal, so mice on the early dinner diet would be more active in the mornings before breakfast.
To test this, I would see if I could get the effect to go away by feeding mice as soon as they woke up, and then 10 or 14 hours later.
> For example if the time between breakfast and dinner was 10 hours instead of 14 hours, the 10 hour mice weighed less than the 14 hour mice, even on the same diet.
Doesn't this contradict calories in - calories out?
My opinion is the amount of time spent eating (and not when you eat) is a major contributor to lower obesity rates. When you spend more time chewing and conversing, you seem to eat less and get fuller. Typically you can't even finish your meal.
In NA we eat to quickly not giving our brain and stomach time to send the proper signals of fullness. Try it sometime, take a typically portion and spend 20 minutes not eating more than half of it. You probably won't be able to finish it.
"The lead author of the study, Dr Gerda Pot, is a Visiting Lecturer in the Diabetes and Nutritional Sciences Division and is also based at the Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam. She said: ‘The findings of our study are surprising. We expected to find an association between eating later and being more likely to be overweight but actually found that this was not the case. This may be due to the limited number of children consuming their evening meal after 8pm in this cohort."
So the study is far too small to have the power to come to surprising conclusions, and should probably be retracted.
Also, Science Bulletin has very annoying popovers that will drive the audience away.
So the last time I had put on weight (an accident -> was bedridden for long) I decided to fix my food intake along with running and sports. One advice I received from a dietician was that have dinner at least 2 hours before you go to bed and I followed it. I don't know whether it was other things that worked too or only others worked but I felt a clear difference in my fitness, sleep pattern ("very" uninterrupted), digestion, and mood when I woke up the next morning.
On a side note, when I was S Korea - dinner happened at 5pm and I could never get used to it :-)
I was once a serios competative swimmer (think top 100 in the US). If i ate between school at say 4pm and training at 5, that dinner would have been floating down the lanes. After 8pm was the only option. (Same for breakfast. Eat after training, on way to school.) Properly active kids eat when they can. Nobody should skip exercise or other activity for the sake of some silly 1950s eating schedual.
I was a small kid and my kids are small. I've always found late dining to be uncomfortable as I'm too hungry. Thankfully, it isn't cultural in the areas of Canada and USA where I've lived.
Does anyone have any experience where adopting later dining improved happiness or health? What changes did you make? How did you adopt it?
Assuming late dinning is sinning after 20:00, we adopted it in the summer. It definitely improved hapiness, because we did not had to watch the time and could leave playground when we felt like leaving it. (Our playground even had wifi for parental hapiness. Kids were happy to be with friends.) It is safe to assume the health got better too, because we had more sun and kids had more exercise.
We adopted it by not feeling like leaving and taking food with us.
I'm curious-everyone who is doing the contrarian "But I never eat before 8pm/whatever"-where do you live? Also its a bit of a straw man to make 5pm your early eating time-I usually eat between 6 and 7-is that abnormally early? I also tend to get to work earlier and leave earlier as well.
The article cites major caveats -
1. Cohort size of children eating after 8pm is much smaller than before - mostly because the kids are in bed by then ( they are looking at 4-10 year olds )
2. Self reported Food Diaries are seldom accurate.
3. This study is the first of it's kind.
Supper timing is majorly correlated to weight gain, especially if most of the calories are from carbs. Simple rules like NCA5 or NCA6 ( no carbs after 5pm ) easily influence weight loss in teens & adults. I wouldn't try this hack with 4-10 year olds, but once you are in the teens, it is a nice simple body hack.
Still not a problem. Whatever makes you eat the least will let you control your weight. For some people, it might be not eating before bed, for others it may not matter.
Young kids need ~11-12 hrs of sleep a night. They have to get up at about 7:00AM (because WE have to get up then) so bedtime is fixed at 7ish. Bedtime routine takes 30-45 minutes. We don't want to have a separate dinner for the kids. Plus we need kid-free time to keep the house in something resembling order. So of course we have early (~5:30) dinner.
How do families in 7:00-9:00 dinner start time countries handle this?
[+] [-] jelliclesfarm|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Mikeb85|9 years ago|reply
In much of North America, half the year is only tolerably warm during the day.
[+] [-] balladeer|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] seanmcdirmid|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] juancn|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] erelde|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nmat|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] SmellTheGlove|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] SmellTheGlove|9 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] Mc_Big_G|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] smhost|9 years ago|reply
I think a lot of the magical thinking surrounding weight loss is because there's no one-size-fits-all solution, so people make up patterns in their heads and believe them to be true.
[+] [-] dclowd9901|9 years ago|reply
Once we figure out how to accurately measure basic metabolic process, we'll have gone a long way toward figuring out this woeful conundrum.
[+] [-] kolinko|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] overgard|9 years ago|reply
Also even basic metabolic science disproves your claim. If your immune system attacks your pancreas and damages your ability to produce insulin you will lose weight even if you stuff your face constantly, and if you inject insulin you will have trouble burning fat even when you have low glucose levels.
What I don't understand is why people cling to this weirdly puritanical belief obesity is purely the sin of gluttony when its clear scientifically that weight gain and loss are controlled by hormones
[+] [-] dxhdr|9 years ago|reply
That's a tautology, the question is why. What causes overeating and why do some people have great difficulty with it?
It's clearly not as simple as thinking to yourself, "I'd like to eat just enough today such that I don't overeat." Why are some bodies able to regulate caloric intake and others aren't?
[+] [-] dgfgfdagasdfgfa|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hourislate|9 years ago|reply
But I do agree with you that exercise has little to do with losing weight and can be counter productive when trying to lose weight.
[+] [-] AznHisoka|9 years ago|reply
If you have chronic acid reflux (GERD), eating late makes it worse (acid comes back up when you lie down after a meal)
Eating late can also lead to worse sleep as your body is spending energy digesting food rather than repairing itself.
Personally I feel much more refreshed the next day, when dinner is around 6pm and when it is the lightest meal of the day. Practical issues aside, i cant think of any health benefits eating a late dinner.
[+] [-] watwut|9 years ago|reply
FOr many of us, late dinner does not cause problems.
[+] [-] quickben|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] danneu|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] flexie|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mrcnkoba|9 years ago|reply
If we are talking about obesity it means that it took years to put someone in that state. Eating 300-500 of unhealthy kcal less, by decreasing the eating span just delays the problem.
I do agree though, that the shorter eating span the better. It's called intermittent fasting and there are promising results coming out from research on that.
[+] [-] giarc|9 years ago|reply
I can't find the citation right now but if I do I will edit the comment.
[+] [-] ouid|9 years ago|reply
If I had to bullshit a mechanism, I would say that, for well fed mice, activity increases with the amount of time since the last meal, so mice on the early dinner diet would be more active in the mornings before breakfast.
To test this, I would see if I could get the effect to go away by feeding mice as soon as they woke up, and then 10 or 14 hours later.
[+] [-] projektir|9 years ago|reply
Doesn't this contradict calories in - calories out?
[+] [-] theparanoid|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hourislate|9 years ago|reply
In NA we eat to quickly not giving our brain and stomach time to send the proper signals of fullness. Try it sometime, take a typically portion and spend 20 minutes not eating more than half of it. You probably won't be able to finish it.
[+] [-] matwood|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] angry_octet|9 years ago|reply
So the study is far too small to have the power to come to surprising conclusions, and should probably be retracted.
Also, Science Bulletin has very annoying popovers that will drive the audience away.
[+] [-] jjawssd|9 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] balladeer|9 years ago|reply
On a side note, when I was S Korea - dinner happened at 5pm and I could never get used to it :-)
[+] [-] sandworm101|9 years ago|reply
I was once a serios competative swimmer (think top 100 in the US). If i ate between school at say 4pm and training at 5, that dinner would have been floating down the lanes. After 8pm was the only option. (Same for breakfast. Eat after training, on way to school.) Properly active kids eat when they can. Nobody should skip exercise or other activity for the sake of some silly 1950s eating schedual.
[+] [-] lloydde|9 years ago|reply
Does anyone have any experience where adopting later dining improved happiness or health? What changes did you make? How did you adopt it?
[+] [-] watwut|9 years ago|reply
We adopted it by not feeling like leaving and taking food with us.
[+] [-] ZanyProgrammer|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Oletros|9 years ago|reply
My Italian family have dinner at 19:00
[+] [-] nocomments|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] igor_filippov|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] blowski|9 years ago|reply
Maybe. I have zero evidence, not even a circumstantial anecdote. But perhaps that's where theories like this come from.
[+] [-] dxbydt|9 years ago|reply
Supper timing is majorly correlated to weight gain, especially if most of the calories are from carbs. Simple rules like NCA5 or NCA6 ( no carbs after 5pm ) easily influence weight loss in teens & adults. I wouldn't try this hack with 4-10 year olds, but once you are in the teens, it is a nice simple body hack.
[+] [-] Reedx|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ouid|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] foxfired|9 years ago|reply
I don't know about it making you gain weight, but I know I wake up tired and my heart rate tracker shows it being much higher then usual.
[+] [-] iopq|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] soufron|9 years ago|reply
What kind of country are they talking about?
[+] [-] ashark|9 years ago|reply
How do families in 7:00-9:00 dinner start time countries handle this?
[+] [-] cderwin|9 years ago|reply