The Switch looks pretty neat, based on what little I've seen. I can't help but hope that it'll get hacked and that a thriving homebrew community will sprout up. When the PSP was around and kicking that was the main thing that got me engaged in the community, and I still remember those years with fondness.
Assuming there's no glaring problems, I'll probably buy one when their new Mario Kart game is available. I definitely have a soft spot for Nintendo. Since real-life has pushed me to become a casual gamer, I've really started to appreciate their simplicity and predictability. For solo, I've enjoyed every Mario platformer, and I'll probably enjoy whatever they release next. For parties, Mario Kart and Smash Brothers are always a blast with friends.
Even though it appears to be largely considered a failure by the community, I'm actually pretty happy with the Wii U. I bought around five or six games, and thoroughly enjoyed em all. As I wrote this, I decided to look up what other games have been released since I last checked, and I just found out I have a new Paper Mario game waiting to play :).
> I can't help but hope that it'll get hacked and that a thriving homebrew community will sprout up.
I'm hoping for the same! Set up a wiki to track everything we know about the device, and we also have a Discord chat set up to discuss the process and work on things together. By default the secret parts of the wiki and chat (where we'll be discussing the details of specific findings, exploitation, etc) are hidden; if you want to be involved directly, message me on the Discord and I'll get you set up.
I share your sentiments - the Wii U has an excellent, albeit small lineup of software. I've seen it as a companion to the PS4 / Xbox rather than a competitor.
When I first saw the switch I said that it could potentially become a huge platform for indie developers. This is definitely a step in the right direction, although I don't see why a devkit would even be necessary. Perhaps you're paying for software? Will this open the portable market to indie developers beyond phone games?
You are generally paying for unlocked firmware that will run whatever code you want, a feature that pirates would target on retail consoles. IIRC, some consoles also put more RAM in development kits.
This sounds like an excellent step for Nintendo, if it's true. The Wii U & 3DS development kits are fairly expensive if you're hoping to bash out a title in your evenings / weekends. $500 would give a leg up to those people who haven't got a few grand kicking around to try stuff out on console.
I'm hoping they're also going to continue with the Nintendo Web Framework concept, because that was a pretty smart idea too - having a web technology-based execution environment alongside the Unity / Unreal / native stuff.
Just want to clarify something: This includes a developer Switch console ($300 value retail). I am guessing the extra $200 gives you additional developer tools, documentation, and debug output and of course run self-signed software.
They also sound like they're working with Unreal and Unity to make migrating games easier.
If the developer Nintendo Switch could run other developer's retail games normally, I might consider buying one of these instead of a retail Switch just to tinker on.
Can't find recent information on PS4 dev kit prices, but given the number of indie games I see on it nowadays (and receive for free with PS+), I imagine it's not unreasonable.
Kind of. You can enable 'developer mode' on a consumer Xbox One which allows you to run unsigned apps (UWP) but it doesn't give you full access like you would get with the full SDK which gives you a load more diagnostic, debugging and telemetry options.
I'm kind of on the fence on this one. I remember the Wii had a much higher entry barrier but iirc still a lot of shovelware. A high number of games makes discoverability harder for "serious" developers (people who don't produce asset flips etc.) On the other hand I don't think this problem should be solved by creating an artificial entry barrier.
the reason the wii got all that garbage was because the console was such a runaway hit with the casual market that publishers rushed out to get whatever crap they could onto it. a $500 devkit doesn't have any effect on those forces. the switch probably won't be the runaway hit with the casual market, so publishers probably won't rush out to get whatever crap they can onto it.
Any clue if this will be able to also play retail games? Given Nintendo's track record of keeping supply up with demand, some of us may consider just paying extra for the dev kit...
That's still $500 too much amirite? Seriously though, while I'm fine with a license charge for an official release, I don't see why there should be any cost at all just to compile and run an unsigned binary on your own system. Guess it might come down to anti-piracy measures.
Does this mean it's far more likely that indie game developers can get their games in the legit Nintendo game store rather than some relegated "secondary" game store like Xbox did in the past which nobody ever actually goes to and is usually filled with junk (afaik)?
Xbox Live Arcade was absolutely terrible on the 360, akin to Steam Greenlight.
There were one joke games for a dollar, just like Steam has now.
There were overpriced games, bad games, shit games. Stuff that should be shamefully hidden on a hard drive long forgotten.
I am certainly glad about the death of Greenlight, and from what I can tell all the "indie@xbox" hype leading up to the launch of the One has been unfulfilled, with those games seemingly ending up on the PS4 instead.
I suppose whoever sells the most consoles gets to have the most indie titles.
Then again, I don't own either console, so maybe "indie@xbox" is better off than I'm thinking it is.
Nintendo had indie games like Stardew Valley ported over to the Wii U, IIRC, so I expect to see similar footwork done for the Switch.
what else goes into publishing for the switch? what kind of content restrictions are there? is it like the app store where you have to be 100% family friendly? what percentage of the sales do you get as a developer? will they be cracking down on asset flipping games?
i'm not an insider or anything, so you can take it with a grain of salt, but i think the answer to all your questions is whatever is good for nintendo.
"what else goes into publishing for the switch?"
whatever's good for nintendo.
"what kind of content restrictions are there?"
whatever's good for nintendo.
"is it like the app store where you have to be 100% family friendly?"
whatever's good for nintendo.
"what percentage of the sales do you get as a developer?"
whatever's good for nintendo.
"will they be cracking down on asset flipping games?"
whatever's good for nintendo.
a game console isn't like a mobile platform. it's less like youtube and more like a television network.
So my (somewhat unrelated) question is does the Switch replace both the Wii U and 3DS or just the former? The Switch has mobile capabilities as we've seen but does it justify a stop in 3DS sales/development/play?
Officially it only replaces the Wii U. That's so if the Switch flops, they can release a "real" handheld successor to the 3DS in a few years
However when the DS was released they also said it wasn't a replacement for the GBA, when that was also pretty obviously untrue. Additionally, word is that Nintendo has merged their 3DS and Wii U game development efforts to focus on the Switch.
They also don't really have any 3DS games on the radar for further out than the end of the year. It seems safe to assume that Nintendo fully intends to focus on the Switch going forward.
right, but there was a time nintendo wouldn't even look at your game if you were a small indie team and not just anyone could get a devkit, even if they had the money. nintendo is really conservative about this.
Maybe this is the engineer in me talking, but I'm personally a bit surprised that this is still a thing and Google hasn't invested in a system to let you play Android games on your TV easily.
They could get further into the home entertainment category and probably drive higher priced sales to the Play store.
> Maybe this is the engineer in me talking, but I'm personally a bit surprised that this is still a thing and Google hasn't invested in a system to let you play Android games on your TV easily.
ChromeOS will run Android applications. I don't think there is that much room or market for yet another console system. Even the XBox one isn't selling as much as Microsoft wanted; the PS VITA is barely selling outside Japan and the Switch may be the last console for Nintendo if it fails.
There are mobile consoles, they are called phones and tablets. Android and especially iOS are making a huge dent in the gaming market but most "hard-core" gamers don't want to admit it. There is a mountain load of horrible games on mobile platforms but a ton of real gems also and that's good enough for a ton of people IMO.
I'm not much of a gamer, but I am a consumer who buys these consoles (and will be buying the Switch). Here are my main reasons:
- consoles have games that are, for many people, much more attractive at the top-end (big-name big-budget games Mario Bros|Kart|Whatever, Splatoon, Grand Theft Auto, Destiny, Halo, etc etc... games I or my kids have heard of and are the canonical game version and not watered-down phone spinoffs)
- consoles have real controllers, that all the first-tier games are designed for (compare Mario Bros. for the latest Nintendo console (many hours of fun for multiple members family vs 10 minute novelty game consisting of pressing one button)
- there aren't many games for phones that actually work well for multiple simultaneous players on the big tv
- 99.9% of phone games are pure garbage, while on consoles it's probably only 75% or so
Not sure if trolling.. or if you're just ignorant to such a massive industry.
Playstation 4, which is the best selling console of this generation, has shipped 57million units, and Sony also makes publishing profits off many of the popular games exclusive to their system. They also have a paid online service. We're talking billions of dollars for Sony alone.
As for why dedicated gaming machines still capture so much of the market as opposed to the "casual/mobile" gaming market:
-Latency would be too high via a Chromecast causing input lag in fast paced games such as shooters (though lower latency, gaming specific streaming services do exist from Sony, Steam, and NVidia)
-Graphical fidelity wouldn't be comparable. Consoles already are the butt end of many "serious gamer" jokes because they don't have the computational horsepower to provide equivalent outputs to high end PCs (Google the "gaming PC masterrace" memes)
-Touchscreens only serve as good inputs for some types of games (strategy and puzzle games come to mind). Racing games, fighting games, RPG's and platformers are usually tailored to controllers.
As I mentioned before, consoles are even mainstream considered to the gaming PC market, which has a ton of dedicated hardware and revenue still despite the desktop as a whole being on the decline (atleast with your average consumer).
"Couch multiplayer" is still fun and still relatively poorly supported on PC-like platforms.
The "just turn it on and play" usability is important too, especially for a device that you only use occasionally. I used to keep a couple of controllers for my PC and suggest multiplayer to people, but it felt like every time I did it something new had broken or needed updating.
[+] [-] TheAceOfHearts|9 years ago|reply
Assuming there's no glaring problems, I'll probably buy one when their new Mario Kart game is available. I definitely have a soft spot for Nintendo. Since real-life has pushed me to become a casual gamer, I've really started to appreciate their simplicity and predictability. For solo, I've enjoyed every Mario platformer, and I'll probably enjoy whatever they release next. For parties, Mario Kart and Smash Brothers are always a blast with friends.
Even though it appears to be largely considered a failure by the community, I'm actually pretty happy with the Wii U. I bought around five or six games, and thoroughly enjoyed em all. As I wrote this, I decided to look up what other games have been released since I last checked, and I just found out I have a new Paper Mario game waiting to play :).
[+] [-] justifier|9 years ago|reply
the kaizo and puzzle communities are remarkable.. both in consistently high quality levels and the people are warm and welcoming
both kaizo and world record attempts at puzzles are exercises in optimisation
and the puzzles(o) feel like spaces for interacting with algorithms and data structures
(o) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08vhGZZ1FEY#t=17m30s
[+] [-] daeken|9 years ago|reply
I'm hoping for the same! Set up a wiki to track everything we know about the device, and we also have a Discord chat set up to discuss the process and work on things together. By default the secret parts of the wiki and chat (where we'll be discussing the details of specific findings, exploitation, etc) are hidden; if you want to be involved directly, message me on the Discord and I'll get you set up.
Wiki: http://reswitched.tech/ Chat: https://discord.gg/hSMpnuG
[+] [-] darpa_escapee|9 years ago|reply
I found my dev calling with PSP hacking and homebrew development. Those were good times.
[+] [-] threeseed|9 years ago|reply
There needs to be a commercial incentive for them to develop games.
Nintendo put all their eggs in the Switch basket and if it fails they likely will never recover from it.
[+] [-] cwyers|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] revjx|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hashmymustache|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] webkike|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] iancarroll|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] markcerqueira|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] supergreg|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] revjx|9 years ago|reply
I'm hoping they're also going to continue with the Nintendo Web Framework concept, because that was a pretty smart idea too - having a web technology-based execution environment alongside the Unity / Unreal / native stuff.
[+] [-] UnoriginalGuy|9 years ago|reply
They also sound like they're working with Unreal and Unity to make migrating games easier.
If the developer Nintendo Switch could run other developer's retail games normally, I might consider buying one of these instead of a retail Switch just to tinker on.
[+] [-] mileycyrusXOXO|9 years ago|reply
On a related note, Unreal 4.15 released support for Switch development.[0]
[0]- https://www.unrealengine.com/blog/unreal-engine-4-15-release...
[+] [-] Cyph0n|9 years ago|reply
Judging by past Nintendo console dev kits, this will not be the case.
[+] [-] minimaxir|9 years ago|reply
Can't find recent information on PS4 dev kit prices, but given the number of indie games I see on it nowadays (and receive for free with PS+), I imagine it's not unreasonable.
[+] [-] shinymark|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] satysin|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] emsy|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pasquinelli|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] CorpOverreach|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] eriknstr|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] snuxoll|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sdegutis|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] oxide|9 years ago|reply
There were one joke games for a dollar, just like Steam has now.
There were overpriced games, bad games, shit games. Stuff that should be shamefully hidden on a hard drive long forgotten.
I am certainly glad about the death of Greenlight, and from what I can tell all the "indie@xbox" hype leading up to the launch of the One has been unfulfilled, with those games seemingly ending up on the PS4 instead.
I suppose whoever sells the most consoles gets to have the most indie titles.
Then again, I don't own either console, so maybe "indie@xbox" is better off than I'm thinking it is.
Nintendo had indie games like Stardew Valley ported over to the Wii U, IIRC, so I expect to see similar footwork done for the Switch.
[+] [-] normalperson123|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lttlrck|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pasquinelli|9 years ago|reply
"what else goes into publishing for the switch?" whatever's good for nintendo.
"what kind of content restrictions are there?" whatever's good for nintendo.
"is it like the app store where you have to be 100% family friendly?" whatever's good for nintendo.
"what percentage of the sales do you get as a developer?" whatever's good for nintendo.
"will they be cracking down on asset flipping games?" whatever's good for nintendo.
a game console isn't like a mobile platform. it's less like youtube and more like a television network.
[+] [-] tradersam|9 years ago|reply
Haven't done much research, just a thought.
[+] [-] delecti|9 years ago|reply
However when the DS was released they also said it wasn't a replacement for the GBA, when that was also pretty obviously untrue. Additionally, word is that Nintendo has merged their 3DS and Wii U game development efforts to focus on the Switch.
They also don't really have any 3DS games on the radar for further out than the end of the year. It seems safe to assume that Nintendo fully intends to focus on the Switch going forward.
[+] [-] nsxwolf|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pasquinelli|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Eridrus|9 years ago|reply
They could get further into the home entertainment category and probably drive higher priced sales to the Play store.
[+] [-] camus2|9 years ago|reply
Remember this?
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ouya/ouya-a-new-kind-of...
A failure.
ChromeOS will run Android applications. I don't think there is that much room or market for yet another console system. Even the XBox one isn't selling as much as Microsoft wanted; the PS VITA is barely selling outside Japan and the Switch may be the last console for Nintendo if it fails.
[+] [-] st3v3r|9 years ago|reply
Games made for a touchpad and finger don't translate well to controllers, just like controller games don't always translate well to touch pads.
[+] [-] jra101|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jaegerpicker|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jaimex2|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] flukus|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mrfusion|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] freeflight|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] intrasight|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] veidr|9 years ago|reply
- consoles have games that are, for many people, much more attractive at the top-end (big-name big-budget games Mario Bros|Kart|Whatever, Splatoon, Grand Theft Auto, Destiny, Halo, etc etc... games I or my kids have heard of and are the canonical game version and not watered-down phone spinoffs)
- consoles have real controllers, that all the first-tier games are designed for (compare Mario Bros. for the latest Nintendo console (many hours of fun for multiple members family vs 10 minute novelty game consisting of pressing one button)
- there aren't many games for phones that actually work well for multiple simultaneous players on the big tv
- 99.9% of phone games are pure garbage, while on consoles it's probably only 75% or so
[+] [-] seabrookmx|9 years ago|reply
Playstation 4, which is the best selling console of this generation, has shipped 57million units, and Sony also makes publishing profits off many of the popular games exclusive to their system. They also have a paid online service. We're talking billions of dollars for Sony alone.
As for why dedicated gaming machines still capture so much of the market as opposed to the "casual/mobile" gaming market:
-Latency would be too high via a Chromecast causing input lag in fast paced games such as shooters (though lower latency, gaming specific streaming services do exist from Sony, Steam, and NVidia)
-Graphical fidelity wouldn't be comparable. Consoles already are the butt end of many "serious gamer" jokes because they don't have the computational horsepower to provide equivalent outputs to high end PCs (Google the "gaming PC masterrace" memes)
-Touchscreens only serve as good inputs for some types of games (strategy and puzzle games come to mind). Racing games, fighting games, RPG's and platformers are usually tailored to controllers.
As I mentioned before, consoles are even mainstream considered to the gaming PC market, which has a ton of dedicated hardware and revenue still despite the desktop as a whole being on the decline (atleast with your average consumer).
[+] [-] scrame|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lmm|9 years ago|reply
The "just turn it on and play" usability is important too, especially for a device that you only use occasionally. I used to keep a couple of controllers for my PC and suggest multiplayer to people, but it felt like every time I did it something new had broken or needed updating.