This is half a rant and half a cry for help. I see topics like this on HN often; "Anyone can learn math!" but I really don't think I can. Not because I'm a defeatist and have given up but because I've tried basically all my life to understand math and I've never managed to grasp anything but the most basic concepts.
I've tried different teachers, my friends have tried tutoring me, I've tried Khan Academy. No matter what I do, the information just won't stick. The connections in my brain aren't made. What I don't understand is I learn other subjects relatively well. It's just math I can't grasp which really sucks because I love science and cryptography; two fields I imagine I could appreciate more with a solid mathematical background.
It's worth noting I have some of the symptoms of dyscalculia, so perhaps my brain isn't really built to do math and is why I struggle so much?
It's frustrating when I see "anyone can learn math!" because I've gotten shit from people in the past like "you can't be a good programmer if you're bad at math". I feel like we need to be more accepting that people have strengths and weaknesses in different areas.
I'm tired of feeling ashamed to be bad at math, especially as I'm not sure it's even my fault anymore.
I'm sorry math has brought you frustration and shame. I agree that it seems much easier for some people than others, though there's so much room for improvement in how it's taught.
About the cry-for-help part: I recently started reading Visual Group Theoryhttp://web.bentley.edu/empl/c/ncarter/vgt/ which looks to be gentle and illuminating. The style so far is quite different from a typical math textbook. Another book I've read more of was Turtle Geometry by Abelson and diSessa (the same Abelson who cowrote SICP). It can get difficult, but it's also very unusual: it's about exploring mathematical ideas for yourself by programming, and includes both hints and solutions to its suggested problems.
Being ashamed of not being able to do X is not a good reason or motivation for learning it!
Another mistake is the idea which the article rightly denies, namely that you have to be smart enough to learn X.
The author makes a mistake too: she thinks she can predict the rest of her life. ("I realized I actually wanted to study physics for the rest of my life.") This last idea is related to the question adults frequently ask children, "What do you want to do when you grow up?"
The limiting factor in all these cases is how genuinely interesting you find the field and how much you want to learn it now. Which is a property of the ideas and the problems as much as of your personality.
It's not your fault...her IQ is probably one in 100 million ...it's called winning the genetic powerball. Like why is Ed Witten so smart at math and physics? His brain is wired that way to understand those concepts very easily relative to the amount of effort required. If we break down IQ into verbal and math components, some people have very high verbal IQ and only average math; some both.
Learning QED and general relativity is often unobtainable even for people who are 'good at math'.
> It's worth noting I have some of the symptoms of dyscalculia, so perhaps my brain isn't really built to do math and is why I struggle so much?
Does discalculia have to do with numbers and calculations exclusively? It's not very hard to cook up math problems where the numbers are well-hidden so that you don't touch them directly. A lot of induction arguments are like that. Have you ever seen a math proof? The reason I am asking this is because your writing seems lucid enough and math proofs are nothing but tight explanations why a statement is true.
I have a form of dyscalculia that affects my ability to read, write out, and process basic numerical operations. While I know that x^2 * x^2 should equal x^4, when I see a math problem like this, I often screw it up for no damn good reason. It's also not a matter of care; I can review and review my work and I simply do not see issues.
What seems to have helped me was to drill on an abacus, specifically an IOS app called Know Abacus. I also had a physical abacus to play with and that was really fun. I'm brushing up my skills with Khan at the moment, and I've noticed that after the abacus drills, my gut instincts were better about spotting issues or knowing what to do.
I think the abacus helped by making math operations a physical action (move 2 beads then move 2 beads to add, then see & count 4 beads) compared to a mental projection action (think of 2 things then think of 2 more things and remember I have 4 things because 2 + 2 = 4).
Edit: for reference, I am American who went through US public schools in a variety of states. The abacus training was completely absent from my primary education unlike perhaps some of our fellow HNers from Asia.
Interesting. I'd be happy to give you one or two (free) online tutoring sessions. I've always been able to get my students past their roadblocks so far, and I'm interested to see what a more difficult case might look like.
In modern society we forget that math is a language, just like spoken language, because it is taught with an emphasis on the physical. Women are better at learning languages than men so why should they be worse at math? The answer is because men's struggle to grasp abstract concepts like language and emotion and their firm nature boxed math into the visual/auditory dimension instead of an abstract/spiritual dimension.
You must rethink how you think about math fundamentally. This video and paper are like poetry - short but demanding. Watch this video and read the paper. Really think about it in your own way, don't try to force your mind into an unnatural construction.
I felt the same way until I got to undergrad and relearned math from the basis of naive set theory and spent time working through the basics (proper definitions, proofs, Dedekind cuts etc.).
I've tutored math for the SAT. My anecdotal impression is that many people missed a few bits of math in the early grades, then spent the entire rest of their math careers hopelessly behind.
So, for example, algebra might be difficult because of a gap from grade two about not knowing part of a times table.
If my hypothesis is correct, that would call for approaching math from a total beginner mindset, and taking nothing for granted. For example, there is much to contemplate in a triangle, or in mental tricks for adding small numbers.
Practice is important. That's why I like Khan: for every concept, they give you exercises you can do to the point of mastery. I believe it also does review exercises so you keep working on the knowledge.
A sense of play and fun is important, and helps with practice. My dad is excellent at mental arithmetic: when he sees a license plate, he'll add the numbers together for fun, or multiply them, etc.
Another app I like is Dragonbox. I'm not sure how far it will take you, but the goal is building intuition. Again, beginner mindset is important. It's intended for kids, but for all intents and purposes you are on the same level as a kid – and that's fine!
Another important element is that people who are good at math have usually just figured out small tricks that make certain calculations easier, and help them visualize concepts.
I'm not entirely sure how to teach them, but while reading Isaac Asimov's autobiography I came across this reference to a short book he wrote on exactly that topic. Asimov is a wonderful writer and this may be an excellent primer:
Finally, I recommend studying for the SAT math section. The questions test math in somewhat novel ways. They're fun and reward creative thinking. And as a bonus, there are books written to help you figure out this kind of math, quickly. I really, really like Pwn the SAT. My students got a lot better just by using it: it teaches you how the author thinks, and really breaks things down simply.
(Note: The SAT changed in 2016. You could also use the earlier SAT test booklet (the blue book) and the earlier Pwn the SAT for this exercise)
I don't think any single concept in math is particularly hard. What's hard is that even high school math requires mastery of a few hundred concepts. So you can learn one, but it goes away.
The tools I outlined above are the best I know to solidify math knowledge and make it habitual. I believe any reasonably intelligent adult could use these to learn math.
It is, however, a large subject, and I expect it would require months of focussed work practicing these for every day. But I believe it's doable. I'm basing this on my experience with students who were "bad at math". They made great strides.
I hope this may be of some use! Feel free to reach out if you want to talk about it further. My email is on my profile.
When I was in my second year of high school, I was put up a class for math and science. I immediately found myself unable to cope, and my grades dropped from As to Es, in a few weeks. Two years later, the math teacher for that year gave up on me in the first couple of weeks, and refused to teach me or acknowledge I was even there, after role call.
As punishment for my laziness, my legal guardians beat the hell out of me. Maybe I would learn to apply myself, they said, between blows.
10 years later, I was diagnosed with a non-verbal learning disorder/disability. I ///couldn't/// learn math the way it was being taught, nor science, economics, english, history, or any other topic I'd tried my hand at. In reality, I had burned out in the first few months of being elevated from one class to another and never had the chance to recover (just ignore the physically and psychologically abusive home life I had).
In spite of this, I struggled my way through a CS degree, which is effectively worthless to me because of the disability. The whole time, I had friends, colleagues, family, tell me that I'm lazy and just need to suck it up and do the work. Not one of them had the slightest idea of what I was going through and what was necessary to complete the courses of study - approximately 3x the work required for the same grades. The disabilities support office provided me with only written notes, absolutely inappropriate assistance given my difficulties with written materials.
My degree was a waste of time, money, and effort, because nobody will ever look twice at me. I'm overqualified and no support services are able or willing to help me, many employers won't hire me because in their minds, they'll train me up (and pay minimum wage) then ungrateful-old-me will jump at the first decent job to come my way. I've previously noted interviewers would shout and swear at me for wasting their time, threatening to bill me at their consultant rates. One employer who knew of my disability later told me that I couldn't have told him about it, because if I had he would never have hired me. My present employer hired me for a non-IT role, and then later on told me it was expected that I would provide IT support for all the office staff for no extra money - I was already working 30 extra hours a week without pay.
You may be able to bring your abilities up to a useful level, I don't know, but the question you should consider is whether it's worth the time and effort. It may well be that any perceived benefit is far outweighed by the costs and struggle. I would strongly recommend professional assessment, as being diagnosed with my disability has probably saved my life, and very much my sanity. I do get tired of people telling me that it's just an excuse and that I'm really just lazy - non-verbal learning disorders are far more than simply "I don't understand what I don't read." One genius once told me that everybody had to learn body language, I just had to force myself to do it, work harder and I'll get it. Apparently he didn't.
Don't be ashamed about your lack of ability, be ashamed for the people who think you can because they could, that you just need to apply yourself, because they never will be ashamed of their prejudice.
Where I live, physics and math are a part of obligatory general education, so you'll definitely have to study them until you're 15. After that, if you stay in the general education system (which is true for 95% of people who plan to go to college), you'll have to learn them for 4 more years. Sure, some people will develop a likeness/talent for it and others will hate it, but everyone needs to pass. Only when you go to college at 19 will people start telling you that perhaps you need to be a physics person to study physics and that it's not for everyone.
Art, on the other hand, is considered something magical and depending entirely on your talents right from the start. Art subjects barely touch on any practice, you have to learn a bit about the history and you pass. But I feel it's absolutely the same. Everyone can (and IMHO should be forced to) learn to read sheet music, play a simple tune on the recorder, draw still life with correct shading and proportions, write a short poem etc.
Personal involvment would give people a much deeper understanding of the topic. I mean, imagine if physics only consisted of everyone learning about Newton, Galileo and Einstein with just the smart kids doing calculations.
Interestingly, there's a paper "Lockhart's Lament"[1], on math education written about 15 years ago that proposes an absurd world from a musician's nightmare where formalized music education is mandatory but playing music is generally discouraged.
The point, poorly summarized, is that it resembles math education where a soltary focus on calculation distracts from learning how to do the type of math that only professional mathematicians seem allowed to do now.
It's worth reading if only to see how it often seems like the grass is greener for the educational environment of other fields.
Can we take a step back and make the physics/math optional instead of forcing art too on people :) I never understood why things are mandatory in education. Given a choice I would skip history (apart from reading on my own time what ever interests me),civics and anything that end up quizzing my memory instead of skill (aka memorized processes).
“Right. I don’t believe in the idea that there are a few peculiar people capable of understanding math, and the rest of the world is normal. Math is a human discovery, and it’s no more complicated than humans can understand. I had a calculus book once that said, ‘What one fool can do, another can.’ What we’ve been able to work out about nature may look abstract and threatening to someone who hasn’t studied it, but it was fools who did it, and in the next generation, all the fools will understand it. There’s a tendency to pomposity in all this, to make it deep and profound.”
– Richard Feynman, Omni 1979
A big problem with schools in the US is that grades carry so much weight. Taking a class which you don't have an immediate aptitude for is frowned upon.
Kids should be allowed to take more risks to learn different things.
I would be curious to see a study of people with average IQs, to see if they can learn very advanced math and physics concepts, with large monetary rewards for successful completion. An offer of $100k to learn General Relativity may entice someone with only an IQ of only 90-100 to be so motivated as to learn it and understand it. The large monetary reward is an important component, because people won't be motivated to something unless it's worth their time. If it's successful, the learning techniques could be applied to the general population.
Many studies show monetary rewards make it less likely people will learn things. So you've basically set things up for failure. As Susan points out in the article learning physics for her is about mental and spiritual enrichment. By introducing money into the mix you are changing the framing and putting things into an economic frame. The rules are different in economic frames.
This article makes a major point that a lot of comments seem to be missing.
She's criticizing how people get pigeonholed -- not just early in their careers but early in childhood -- as being "math people" or "physics people" or "humanities people". And that those categories and labels limit people who in fact are capable of learning and enjoying STEM subjects.
It's like how there's an unspoken rule in some corners of the tech industry that someone who first picked up programming later than high school can never be a "real programmer". Which is bullshit and does both individuals and the industry a major disservice.
Does anyone have any ideas how to persuade someone that they are capable of learning things? My mother, ex-girlfriend, and now wife have all been firmly convinced that they were too math-dumb to learn physics or programming. Its fine if people don't have an interest in something of course. What I'm wondering is that if you know someone to be intelligent and you are able to offer support in learning a subject, is it possible to persuade them that they are mentally capable of learning it?
I worry that after I adopt, my daughter is going to fall into the same trap.
Don't underestimate the drive for people to lie or greatly exaggerate their achievements over the internet.
I personally find the post not entirely believable. E.g.,
- First she says "I had learned nothing beyond sixth grade math: no algebra, ...". Then she says "I had been lucky enough to be introduced to ... some algebra ..."
- "You see, I had no formal education". Oh wait, that still leaves out the possibility of thousands of hours of khan-academy, and youtube and what not, for math, physics, programming, during high-school, summers, evenings, freshman college, sophomore college, etc, etc. (Yeah no.).
- She was ignorant in math and physics in June 2012, took a QFT class around Dec 2012, and had an eye opening experience. It's good poetry but not clear what she meant by that. (could be as simple as sitting in a QFT class without credits, and being able to follow some of the discussion)
- She was taking QFT in Dec 2012, and yet she graduates with BA in physics as last as May of 2014 (from her profile page). So very likely QFT was a giant namedrop, and if you ignore that, spending 2 years on undergrad math and physics coursework, when you've already taken logic and set theory, leading up to a bachelor's degree is pretty routine for most students.
- She worked on the ATLAS project. But. Doing data analysis and "helping design electronics". That sounds like a computer nerd who liked to dabble into physics just for the sake of picking a major for the degree (not that hard).
Wherever she started, I'm impressed that her first reaction to QFT was anything other than "I thought this would blow my mind, but, dear God, it's impenetrable!"
I feel the same with Computer Science. It is so freaking complicated! I work in IT, I can program, I am totally immersed in UNIX culture. Yet I don't manage to sit down and study CS as I would like to, as I fear I won't get over the rather theoretical subjects. But you know what? Somehow this short article really resonated. I will sit down and hunt my degree, starting today.
(Disclosure: I am already enrolled in a online-university program here in Germany, which is almost free, but so far I only took two exams on rather practical subjects I had no problems with).
Not speaking to her case, but it happens. My family moved frequently, which meant hopping schools in different states. As a result, I missed many 'required' math classes, simply due to coincidences of scheduling.
(This was in the 80's, well before the current attempts at cross-state standardization.)
In my case, it did not cause me any particular trouble, as I was able to teach myself what I missed. My parents had predicted that this could be an issue, so they made sure I had the resources I needed. But if they had not been proactive, I could have easily graduated HS without ever having taken certain core classes.
Homeschooling is fairly common in the US. Only the end of year state assessments are required for primary and middle school. Instead of highschool I took the GED, which is typical.
While I was in college I didn't pursue Physics , math or or computer science due to bad entrance advisement and knowledge of English language. Two years ago, I decided that I want to code and pursue computer science, I loved every minute of it, from there I gained interest in physics and math. Now I am back in college pursuin computer science and taking physic and math classes. I really enjoy my classes, great stuff
I wholeheartedly endorse the idea that people should learn more physics and math, but I'm not sure the author's personal story supports her apparent message.
She apparently went from 6th grade math to graduate quantum mechanics in a year and a half. This is highly atypical and is surely not an example of a "not smart" person overcoming and managing to learn some physics.
I dont think this is fair. Susan is a genius, she has multiple degrees from top universities.
The average person hears things like this and only gets demoralized. Its just like the lean in campaign. What worked for the 1% isnt going to work for the average person.
Hrm. Learning anything requires sustained and consistent focus on the subject. I don't think I can.
I have tried learning physics, linear algebra, calculus, abstract algebra, discrete maths, proofs, drawing, game development, compiler construction, operating systems, to write, sound synthesis, music in general and many more. In the past year. I'm not thick so I have varying degrees of success but I never make much progress. The interest lasts from a few days to a few weeks.
Computer science and programming are ones I just so happen to keep coming back to at closer intervals. I just wish I wrote more code, built more projects. There's a lot to learn and that is what lies in larger, more important projects. I know if I could get past this, I could make a positive, if only somewhat, contribution to our field.
I have ADHD, I take my medication everyday. It helps but it isn't a silver bullet. I have learned more in the past year with medication that I have the years before. It is a problem that does not seem to be going away.
Sorry Susan, I really admire your path. You've done well and it's inspirational. I just don't think I can learn psychics like you.
I think consistent focus might be a bit overrated, and bouncing between topics can be a nice way to learn for some people. For example, yesterday I looked at the type signature of runST in Haskell and it was completely obvious how it works and how to implement my own. I had stumbled on that weird type signature a few times before, filed it away as incomprehensible and moved on to other things. But I guess my mind was processing it in the background somehow.
That happens to me a lot with other topics as well. I get intrigued by something, play with it enough to memorize a few details without really understanding them, then forget about the whole thing for awhile, and then come back to find a deeper understanding without apparent effort. Does anyone else feel that way?
I feel like I'm similar. In the past couple of years, I've tackled most of the stuff on your list (I didn't touch compiler construction, sound synthesis and writing). My problem is that I pursue these as an alternative career to being a regular dev, and am pretty quickly being dissuaded by the vision that, in the end, my work life will not improve that much.
For example, artists and gamedevs go through tons of anxiety and (usually) ultimately fail and need to find an alternative career. Or, even if they succeed in some manner (i.e. an artist getting a AAA concept artist position), they may become so overworked that they reach burn out pretty fast. Another alternative career I have in mind: being a developer/researcher in an area that's a blend between programming and maths (signal processing, CAD, computer vision etc.) looks interesting on the surface (i.e. I love to study the concepts, implement them in matlab etc.) but I'm afraid that I would end up in some company as an overworked and unhappy faceless cog. That's partly because I feel there's only so much truly interesting work available in this field, and it will most likely go to extremely talented people who have PhDs from MIT in this field - leaving "normies" like me to just do the mundane implementation, bug fixing etc.
I feel like I'm chained by the proverbial golden handcuffs. I can make six figures working on boring and tedious code remotely from my home in a very cheap country (I'm easily in the top 1% of income here). Doing the researcher/developer route would probably require moving to some other country, and thus trading some possible increase in job satisfaction for loneliness and alienation.
How much time have you devoted to learning these? I felt like I was in the same boat until I was able to fully devote myself to learning things at my pace. The worst part about the structured environment is that you go through things only once.
It seems most people who are curious experience the same thing.
I'm interested in all those things even though I wouldn't want to pursue a career in most of them. But I realize I spend X hours a day doing nothing, and I could spend those hours learning all kind of stuff, including for a career, even if I didn't to do it.
Instead of meaningless TV shows and movies I'll forget, and infinite amounts of Internet distractions, I could be an expert in Python or welding, for that matter. I could be making 5 times my income and change my life dramatically within 2-years, guaranteed. No more hoping, wishing, wanting, dreaming.
But I won't. I can't. I'm not.
Do I have ADHD? Do I need an amphetamine to focus me? If it doesn't work for you that well, what's the cure?
I don't believe in ADHD but I don't know anything for sure anymore. I am a pragmatist and open-minded. I'd gladly do anything to just focus on one thing.
> I spent every minute of my days trying to learn everything I had never been able to learn from 6th-12th grade physics and math. I had the most difficult time possible taking intro physics and the beginning calculus courses. I kept going. I knew that if I was ever going to learn this stuff, I had to learn it now.
If you have the drive to put in this "most difficult" effort, utilizing "every minute" of your days closing the gap then you can learn like Susan.
I think the people who aren't "math people" or aren't "physics people" just aren't willing to put in much effort to learn it. They probably aren't all-consumed by it like Susan is.
It's not that these subjects are inaccessible to some people, it's that some people don't want to learn these subjects.
[+] [-] ancarda|9 years ago|reply
I've tried different teachers, my friends have tried tutoring me, I've tried Khan Academy. No matter what I do, the information just won't stick. The connections in my brain aren't made. What I don't understand is I learn other subjects relatively well. It's just math I can't grasp which really sucks because I love science and cryptography; two fields I imagine I could appreciate more with a solid mathematical background.
It's worth noting I have some of the symptoms of dyscalculia, so perhaps my brain isn't really built to do math and is why I struggle so much?
It's frustrating when I see "anyone can learn math!" because I've gotten shit from people in the past like "you can't be a good programmer if you're bad at math". I feel like we need to be more accepting that people have strengths and weaknesses in different areas.
I'm tired of feeling ashamed to be bad at math, especially as I'm not sure it's even my fault anymore.
[+] [-] abecedarius|9 years ago|reply
About the cry-for-help part: I recently started reading Visual Group Theory http://web.bentley.edu/empl/c/ncarter/vgt/ which looks to be gentle and illuminating. The style so far is quite different from a typical math textbook. Another book I've read more of was Turtle Geometry by Abelson and diSessa (the same Abelson who cowrote SICP). It can get difficult, but it's also very unusual: it's about exploring mathematical ideas for yourself by programming, and includes both hints and solutions to its suggested problems.
[+] [-] saxonklaxon|9 years ago|reply
Another mistake is the idea which the article rightly denies, namely that you have to be smart enough to learn X.
The author makes a mistake too: she thinks she can predict the rest of her life. ("I realized I actually wanted to study physics for the rest of my life.") This last idea is related to the question adults frequently ask children, "What do you want to do when you grow up?"
The limiting factor in all these cases is how genuinely interesting you find the field and how much you want to learn it now. Which is a property of the ideas and the problems as much as of your personality.
[+] [-] paulpauper|9 years ago|reply
Learning QED and general relativity is often unobtainable even for people who are 'good at math'.
[+] [-] algebraicgeo|9 years ago|reply
Does discalculia have to do with numbers and calculations exclusively? It's not very hard to cook up math problems where the numbers are well-hidden so that you don't touch them directly. A lot of induction arguments are like that. Have you ever seen a math proof? The reason I am asking this is because your writing seems lucid enough and math proofs are nothing but tight explanations why a statement is true.
Take a look at this free book by Richard Hammack and see if you like the flavor of it because that's how much of math is: http://www.people.vcu.edu/~rhammack/BookOfProof/
[+] [-] rabboRubble|9 years ago|reply
What seems to have helped me was to drill on an abacus, specifically an IOS app called Know Abacus. I also had a physical abacus to play with and that was really fun. I'm brushing up my skills with Khan at the moment, and I've noticed that after the abacus drills, my gut instincts were better about spotting issues or knowing what to do.
I think the abacus helped by making math operations a physical action (move 2 beads then move 2 beads to add, then see & count 4 beads) compared to a mental projection action (think of 2 things then think of 2 more things and remember I have 4 things because 2 + 2 = 4).
Edit: for reference, I am American who went through US public schools in a variety of states. The abacus training was completely absent from my primary education unlike perhaps some of our fellow HNers from Asia.
[+] [-] tashi|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sn9|9 years ago|reply
Are you self-diagnosed with dyscalculia, or was that a diagnosis from a professional after testing?
I'd strongly recommend working through Coursera's Learning How to Learn.
[+] [-] caublestone|9 years ago|reply
You must rethink how you think about math fundamentally. This video and paper are like poetry - short but demanding. Watch this video and read the paper. Really think about it in your own way, don't try to force your mind into an unnatural construction.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=F_0yfvm0UoU
[+] [-] BigJeffeRonaldo|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] graeme|9 years ago|reply
Did you try the exercise dashboard on Khan Academy? https://www.khanacademy.org/exercisedashboard
I've tutored math for the SAT. My anecdotal impression is that many people missed a few bits of math in the early grades, then spent the entire rest of their math careers hopelessly behind.
So, for example, algebra might be difficult because of a gap from grade two about not knowing part of a times table.
If my hypothesis is correct, that would call for approaching math from a total beginner mindset, and taking nothing for granted. For example, there is much to contemplate in a triangle, or in mental tricks for adding small numbers.
Practice is important. That's why I like Khan: for every concept, they give you exercises you can do to the point of mastery. I believe it also does review exercises so you keep working on the knowledge.
A sense of play and fun is important, and helps with practice. My dad is excellent at mental arithmetic: when he sees a license plate, he'll add the numbers together for fun, or multiply them, etc.
Another app I like is Dragonbox. I'm not sure how far it will take you, but the goal is building intuition. Again, beginner mindset is important. It's intended for kids, but for all intents and purposes you are on the same level as a kid – and that's fine!
https://itunes.apple.com/app-bundle/db-complete-math-pack/id...
Another important element is that people who are good at math have usually just figured out small tricks that make certain calculations easier, and help them visualize concepts.
I'm not entirely sure how to teach them, but while reading Isaac Asimov's autobiography I came across this reference to a short book he wrote on exactly that topic. Asimov is a wonderful writer and this may be an excellent primer:
https://www.amazon.com/Quick-easy-math-Isaac-Asimov/dp/B0006...
Finally, I recommend studying for the SAT math section. The questions test math in somewhat novel ways. They're fun and reward creative thinking. And as a bonus, there are books written to help you figure out this kind of math, quickly. I really, really like Pwn the SAT. My students got a lot better just by using it: it teaches you how the author thinks, and really breaks things down simply.
SAT practice tests: https://www.amazon.com/Official-SAT-Study-Guide-2016/dp/1457...
Pwn the SAT: https://www.amazon.com/PWN-SAT-Guide-Mike-McClenathan/dp/152...
(Note: The SAT changed in 2016. You could also use the earlier SAT test booklet (the blue book) and the earlier Pwn the SAT for this exercise)
I don't think any single concept in math is particularly hard. What's hard is that even high school math requires mastery of a few hundred concepts. So you can learn one, but it goes away.
The tools I outlined above are the best I know to solidify math knowledge and make it habitual. I believe any reasonably intelligent adult could use these to learn math.
It is, however, a large subject, and I expect it would require months of focussed work practicing these for every day. But I believe it's doable. I'm basing this on my experience with students who were "bad at math". They made great strides.
I hope this may be of some use! Feel free to reach out if you want to talk about it further. My email is on my profile.
[+] [-] dominotw|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dvtv75|9 years ago|reply
As punishment for my laziness, my legal guardians beat the hell out of me. Maybe I would learn to apply myself, they said, between blows.
10 years later, I was diagnosed with a non-verbal learning disorder/disability. I ///couldn't/// learn math the way it was being taught, nor science, economics, english, history, or any other topic I'd tried my hand at. In reality, I had burned out in the first few months of being elevated from one class to another and never had the chance to recover (just ignore the physically and psychologically abusive home life I had).
In spite of this, I struggled my way through a CS degree, which is effectively worthless to me because of the disability. The whole time, I had friends, colleagues, family, tell me that I'm lazy and just need to suck it up and do the work. Not one of them had the slightest idea of what I was going through and what was necessary to complete the courses of study - approximately 3x the work required for the same grades. The disabilities support office provided me with only written notes, absolutely inappropriate assistance given my difficulties with written materials.
My degree was a waste of time, money, and effort, because nobody will ever look twice at me. I'm overqualified and no support services are able or willing to help me, many employers won't hire me because in their minds, they'll train me up (and pay minimum wage) then ungrateful-old-me will jump at the first decent job to come my way. I've previously noted interviewers would shout and swear at me for wasting their time, threatening to bill me at their consultant rates. One employer who knew of my disability later told me that I couldn't have told him about it, because if I had he would never have hired me. My present employer hired me for a non-IT role, and then later on told me it was expected that I would provide IT support for all the office staff for no extra money - I was already working 30 extra hours a week without pay.
You may be able to bring your abilities up to a useful level, I don't know, but the question you should consider is whether it's worth the time and effort. It may well be that any perceived benefit is far outweighed by the costs and struggle. I would strongly recommend professional assessment, as being diagnosed with my disability has probably saved my life, and very much my sanity. I do get tired of people telling me that it's just an excuse and that I'm really just lazy - non-verbal learning disorders are far more than simply "I don't understand what I don't read." One genius once told me that everybody had to learn body language, I just had to force myself to do it, work harder and I'll get it. Apparently he didn't.
Don't be ashamed about your lack of ability, be ashamed for the people who think you can because they could, that you just need to apply yourself, because they never will be ashamed of their prejudice.
[+] [-] MatekCopatek|9 years ago|reply
Where I live, physics and math are a part of obligatory general education, so you'll definitely have to study them until you're 15. After that, if you stay in the general education system (which is true for 95% of people who plan to go to college), you'll have to learn them for 4 more years. Sure, some people will develop a likeness/talent for it and others will hate it, but everyone needs to pass. Only when you go to college at 19 will people start telling you that perhaps you need to be a physics person to study physics and that it's not for everyone.
Art, on the other hand, is considered something magical and depending entirely on your talents right from the start. Art subjects barely touch on any practice, you have to learn a bit about the history and you pass. But I feel it's absolutely the same. Everyone can (and IMHO should be forced to) learn to read sheet music, play a simple tune on the recorder, draw still life with correct shading and proportions, write a short poem etc.
Personal involvment would give people a much deeper understanding of the topic. I mean, imagine if physics only consisted of everyone learning about Newton, Galileo and Einstein with just the smart kids doing calculations.
[+] [-] rz2k|9 years ago|reply
The point, poorly summarized, is that it resembles math education where a soltary focus on calculation distracts from learning how to do the type of math that only professional mathematicians seem allowed to do now.
It's worth reading if only to see how it often seems like the grass is greener for the educational environment of other fields.
[1] https://www.maa.org/external_archive/devlin/LockhartsLament....
[+] [-] option_greek|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dkarapetyan|9 years ago|reply
“Right. I don’t believe in the idea that there are a few peculiar people capable of understanding math, and the rest of the world is normal. Math is a human discovery, and it’s no more complicated than humans can understand. I had a calculus book once that said, ‘What one fool can do, another can.’ What we’ve been able to work out about nature may look abstract and threatening to someone who hasn’t studied it, but it was fools who did it, and in the next generation, all the fools will understand it. There’s a tendency to pomposity in all this, to make it deep and profound.” – Richard Feynman, Omni 1979
[+] [-] danso|9 years ago|reply
She also authored this previously discussed post about physics: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12691963
[+] [-] sna1l|9 years ago|reply
Kids should be allowed to take more risks to learn different things.
[+] [-] paulpauper|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] misotaur|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] paulpauper|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dkarapetyan|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dvtv75|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cauterized|9 years ago|reply
She's criticizing how people get pigeonholed -- not just early in their careers but early in childhood -- as being "math people" or "physics people" or "humanities people". And that those categories and labels limit people who in fact are capable of learning and enjoying STEM subjects.
It's like how there's an unspoken rule in some corners of the tech industry that someone who first picked up programming later than high school can never be a "real programmer". Which is bullshit and does both individuals and the industry a major disservice.
[+] [-] afarrell|9 years ago|reply
I worry that after I adopt, my daughter is going to fall into the same trap.
[+] [-] paulpauper|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] fizixer|9 years ago|reply
Don't underestimate the drive for people to lie or greatly exaggerate their achievements over the internet.
I personally find the post not entirely believable. E.g.,
- First she says "I had learned nothing beyond sixth grade math: no algebra, ...". Then she says "I had been lucky enough to be introduced to ... some algebra ..."
- "You see, I had no formal education". Oh wait, that still leaves out the possibility of thousands of hours of khan-academy, and youtube and what not, for math, physics, programming, during high-school, summers, evenings, freshman college, sophomore college, etc, etc. (Yeah no.).
- She was ignorant in math and physics in June 2012, took a QFT class around Dec 2012, and had an eye opening experience. It's good poetry but not clear what she meant by that. (could be as simple as sitting in a QFT class without credits, and being able to follow some of the discussion)
- She was taking QFT in Dec 2012, and yet she graduates with BA in physics as last as May of 2014 (from her profile page). So very likely QFT was a giant namedrop, and if you ignore that, spending 2 years on undergrad math and physics coursework, when you've already taken logic and set theory, leading up to a bachelor's degree is pretty routine for most students.
- She worked on the ATLAS project. But. Doing data analysis and "helping design electronics". That sounds like a computer nerd who liked to dabble into physics just for the sake of picking a major for the degree (not that hard).
[+] [-] neutronicus|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] aisofteng|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] melling|9 years ago|reply
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12691963
[+] [-] acqq|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] geff82|9 years ago|reply
(Disclosure: I am already enrolled in a online-university program here in Germany, which is almost free, but so far I only took two exams on rather practical subjects I had no problems with).
[+] [-] dpkonofa|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Baeocystin|9 years ago|reply
(This was in the 80's, well before the current attempts at cross-state standardization.)
In my case, it did not cause me any particular trouble, as I was able to teach myself what I missed. My parents had predicted that this could be an issue, so they made sure I had the resources I needed. But if they had not been proactive, I could have easily graduated HS without ever having taken certain core classes.
[+] [-] paulpauper|9 years ago|reply
scored very high on verbal part of ACT and got scholarships
[+] [-] theparanoid|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gexla|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] james_niro|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mikebenfield|9 years ago|reply
She apparently went from 6th grade math to graduate quantum mechanics in a year and a half. This is highly atypical and is surely not an example of a "not smart" person overcoming and managing to learn some physics.
[+] [-] rokosbasilisk|9 years ago|reply
The average person hears things like this and only gets demoralized. Its just like the lean in campaign. What worked for the 1% isnt going to work for the average person.
[+] [-] jwdunne|9 years ago|reply
I have tried learning physics, linear algebra, calculus, abstract algebra, discrete maths, proofs, drawing, game development, compiler construction, operating systems, to write, sound synthesis, music in general and many more. In the past year. I'm not thick so I have varying degrees of success but I never make much progress. The interest lasts from a few days to a few weeks.
Computer science and programming are ones I just so happen to keep coming back to at closer intervals. I just wish I wrote more code, built more projects. There's a lot to learn and that is what lies in larger, more important projects. I know if I could get past this, I could make a positive, if only somewhat, contribution to our field.
I have ADHD, I take my medication everyday. It helps but it isn't a silver bullet. I have learned more in the past year with medication that I have the years before. It is a problem that does not seem to be going away.
Sorry Susan, I really admire your path. You've done well and it's inspirational. I just don't think I can learn psychics like you.
[+] [-] cousin_it|9 years ago|reply
That happens to me a lot with other topics as well. I get intrigued by something, play with it enough to memorize a few details without really understanding them, then forget about the whole thing for awhile, and then come back to find a deeper understanding without apparent effort. Does anyone else feel that way?
[+] [-] taway_1212|9 years ago|reply
For example, artists and gamedevs go through tons of anxiety and (usually) ultimately fail and need to find an alternative career. Or, even if they succeed in some manner (i.e. an artist getting a AAA concept artist position), they may become so overworked that they reach burn out pretty fast. Another alternative career I have in mind: being a developer/researcher in an area that's a blend between programming and maths (signal processing, CAD, computer vision etc.) looks interesting on the surface (i.e. I love to study the concepts, implement them in matlab etc.) but I'm afraid that I would end up in some company as an overworked and unhappy faceless cog. That's partly because I feel there's only so much truly interesting work available in this field, and it will most likely go to extremely talented people who have PhDs from MIT in this field - leaving "normies" like me to just do the mundane implementation, bug fixing etc.
I feel like I'm chained by the proverbial golden handcuffs. I can make six figures working on boring and tedious code remotely from my home in a very cheap country (I'm easily in the top 1% of income here). Doing the researcher/developer route would probably require moving to some other country, and thus trading some possible increase in job satisfaction for loneliness and alienation.
Life is hard.
[+] [-] adamnemecek|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] autononymous|9 years ago|reply
I'm interested in all those things even though I wouldn't want to pursue a career in most of them. But I realize I spend X hours a day doing nothing, and I could spend those hours learning all kind of stuff, including for a career, even if I didn't to do it.
Instead of meaningless TV shows and movies I'll forget, and infinite amounts of Internet distractions, I could be an expert in Python or welding, for that matter. I could be making 5 times my income and change my life dramatically within 2-years, guaranteed. No more hoping, wishing, wanting, dreaming.
But I won't. I can't. I'm not.
Do I have ADHD? Do I need an amphetamine to focus me? If it doesn't work for you that well, what's the cure?
I don't believe in ADHD but I don't know anything for sure anymore. I am a pragmatist and open-minded. I'd gladly do anything to just focus on one thing.
[+] [-] fusiongyro|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] posterboy|9 years ago|reply
I once read that reading code is a lot more important to learn coding.
[+] [-] gexla|9 years ago|reply
If you have the drive to put in this "most difficult" effort, utilizing "every minute" of your days closing the gap then you can learn like Susan.
I think the people who aren't "math people" or aren't "physics people" just aren't willing to put in much effort to learn it. They probably aren't all-consumed by it like Susan is.
It's not that these subjects are inaccessible to some people, it's that some people don't want to learn these subjects.
[+] [-] Shinchy|9 years ago|reply