Regardless of the cheating, this type of post doesn't fully sit right with me. Given the permanence of record on the internet, this does bring up the issue of how we police bad behavior, and how we incorporate forgiveness into that.
That said, the poster was pretty fair, and generally refer to her as "the runner". It definitely reads as an obsessive sleuthing, no doubt in part because there were follow-on discoveries made. As the saying goes, "one is a fluke, two is a coincidence, three is a trend", and it seems there's a trend here.
What's interesting is someone in the comments mentioned this:
> The majority of those "30K" instagram followers are fake accounts - many of the likes on her recent photos are spam bots. She 100 percent buys followers/likes.
My guess is a lot of people probably do this to bump up their social status a bit. It's relatively innocent (if a bit narcissistic), though if its true in her case, it fits a clear pattern. Can't verify though, given it seems she's shut down her social media presence.
This is one of those cases where sympathy and revulsion are equally valid emotions. I wouldn't want to be on the other end of the hive-mind, but it is a self-inflicted wound.
I don't agree that it's innocent. Competitors in marathons (the ones that have a chance of winning especially) have put a lot of time, energy, effort, and pain into training to be successful.
To have their rewards for that effort and commitment stolen by someone who didn't earn it is not fair and should be scrutinized and called out.
To call this "trivial" seems like maybe you have no interest or experience with marathons? It might be trivial to you, but substitute marathons for some challenging endeavor in your life. If your success was stolen by someone who cheated, you wouldn't think it was trivial either.
Certainly mass internet lynch mobs are a bad thing. But what this site does is necessary. There are many instances this kind of behavior documented on sites like this.
Some of these cheaters are obsessive and do it over and over again. It is very unfair to other competitors (even those who have no chance of being winners...), taking credit for the commitment to something that you don't have.
Maybe this kind of thing bothers me more because I've seen it with people who pretend to have military service ("stolen-valor"). It's just frustrating seeing people blatantly pretend to have done something difficult just to get the accolades.
Anyways, I agree that these are self-inflicted wounds for sure.
I don't like taking a drive-by, salacious interest in a story that doesn't affect me in the least, but will probably have serious, perhaps devastating consequences for the person involved for a long time professionally.
I also think it's worth pointing out that the original article, while using photos of the person involved, never uses their full name, so is to some extent not google-able. However, the full name is used in the comments, and then extensively in other media coverage of this story, so this is a moot point.
As with the parent, I'm not defending cheating in a competitive race, especially if sponsorship is involved. But ultimately, I can't take any pleasure in a worldwide glee-fuelled shame-fest over what is ultimately a relatively trivial, presumably non-criminal misdeed.
This runner cheated consciously, lied afterward, covered up the cheat with a conspiracy later (biking the route to create a fake data trail). Its hard to smear any investigation as 'obsessive' compared to that.
And cheating at public events is not innocent. Its a rupture of the social contract, up there with stealing and libel. It should be dealt with promptly and vigorously. She should be banned from all further events. This is not the sort of person you want in your society, in your business, in your life.
I'm more disturbed with the evident impulse to forgive. Is nothing important any more? Is character and honesty so worthless?
Why should someone who cheated at a PUBLIC event and very publicly claimed the prize and actively misled other runners and the judging committee not be exposed publicly? Is it not in the public interest to punish these peoples? Or should we never report on such misdeeds for fear of any personal and professional retribution? Isn't that part of being a responsible adult in a civil society? She's a sponsored running/lifestyle blogger, for God's sake! The social contract works for a reason.
Back in the days when you could buy 7,000+ twitter followers for $5 on Fiverr I use to buy followers for people all the time for fun. Friends from high school with very silly twitter account would wake up with 7,000 new followers. I also bought followers for small companies from time to time because I really enjoyed them. I noticed that their own real followers would increase after that. Confirmed this with my own twitter account.
I made the conclusion that people are more likely to follow a account that already has a lot of followers. So if the first 7,000 are fake the next 1000 or 2000 will be real and actually valuable followers.
>>My guess is a lot of people probably do this to bump up their social status a bit.
I had thought the Black Mirror episode titled "Nose Dive" was a bit silly at first, but as usual with that series, it 's turning out to be pretty prescient
In time you will come to know that obsessive internet race cheat sleuthing is the greatest form of entertainment in the world. You get your Sherlock Holmes fix, you get insane psychologies to study, and you do good for the world, putting honest racers back on the podium.
There is a new crazy story every year or so, tune in next year, it is going to be great!
She's a 'lifestyle blogger' so it's not like she's trying to be anonymous and then being outed by some troll. Also she didn't mind everyone celebrating her second place.
Sorry to distract from the effort of leaving her name out of this, but your discovery about her followers seems kind of like a funny coincidence considering her last name.
For me the most interesting tidbit is that she biked the entire race afterwards in a cover up attempt.
Are there any studies on doing something wrong and escalating it with coverup attempts? Or is there a name for this that I'm not aware of? I know it has to be the theme of at least one classical drama...sort of a reverse "Hans in Luck" of sorts...I dunno.
I have witnessed this pattern before and the spiral that person went on was completely out of character and a progression of small pieces. I wouldn't be shocked if a good number of serious crimes had almost comically trivial root causes that escalated that way.
Marcus Einfeld comes to mind. A formerly well respected Australian judge who perjured himself over a $77 speeding ticket by blaming it on dead Americans and received 3 years in prison for the string of lies he told to trying to cover it up. Madness. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Einfeld#Criminal_convic...
I suppose the definitive example of this would be the Watergate scandal [1], which led to the coining of the phrase "It's not the crime, it's the cover-up".
Escalation of commitment / commitment bias / sunk costs are what you're looking for. Agree, I've observed this 'cover it up with a bigger lie' thing happen. Madoff's scheme is a similar one, and that judge story in sibling comment is great example. These things are almost always comical/tragic in nature.
Personally I am fascinated by marathon cheats. Every time I see a story about someone cheating in a marathon I can't help but wonder what was going through the person's head before, during, and after.
I also wonder how often they do it, and why. You don't win any money, there is no incentive I can make out beyond bragging rights.
I mean, they aren't exactly footraces, right? It's an endurance test, IMO. Usually for charity, people usually participate for the exercise and show support for a good cause, or so I always assumed.
Winning seems totally arbitrary on one hand, but on the other hand I have to assume people do compete on some level, which makes the cheating more sensible, if you think about it in that sense.
I cheated once when I was a teenager at an online competitive game, so I'm not completely ignorant about the temptation of cheating. I'm used to people cheating at competitive online games, they're usually underskilled and looking to compensate, underage, just looking to spoil the fun, or some combination of those.
Maybe that's the intention here, to spoil the fun for those looking to compete. I suppose I'll never really know, but I can't help but ponder it whenever it comes up.
While the vast majority of participants in races are doing it for fun/exercise, there are a handful of sub-elite runners at most races who are in it for more competitive reasons.
It could be prize money, but that is usually small. There are other types of compensation though. Being a member of a race team, receiving free or discounted gear, free entries to races, and some level of celebrity within the running community.
It's fun and rewarding, and a ton of hard work.
I suspect that a significant portion of her world is now rocked. In order to run those times, she is running every day and probably participating in group workouts, etc. A significant part of her social network is likely tied to her success as a runner, even though it is not her primary job.
I can only imagine how difficult this must be, which makes her decision to cheat so baffling.
Many races do have cash prizes. For a smaller race, it could be just a trophy, or a trophy plus something from a sponsor, but it could also be cash ($50-$100+ range).
I am not of the few vocal minority here who sympathizes with the person who cheated. Marathons are shared, sacred experiences organized by a community of volunteers. The marathoninvestigation.com author is protecting that which is sacred and shared among the running community. That is a noble cause and worth commending.
I agree but perhaps it's because the majority of apologists do not truly appreciate the challenges of running such races that they place a higher value on an amateur runner's privacy than the results of an arbitrary running event being skewed by a cheater.
I know nothing about running and this post was like looking into a whole world I did not know existed, all of this tech used in something as basic as running, so many opportunities for entrepreneurs in every aspect of life. Every one lives in their own world, some people wonder why gamers like to finish all side quests in a game, others may wonder why someone cares about running marathons so much, using all this tech, but most interestingly of all, the lengths someone would go to cheat in a run, and the lengths someone would go to uncover it all. The apology on instagram if real is a bit lame.
That's the kind of apology you expect from someone that's sorry they got caught. She can't get through the first paragraph without trying to make another excuse about not feeling well. Completely removes any sincerity from the rest of the piece.
Different people have different morals, and honor isn't as universal as we would hope.
You would think the turnaround point would be a natural place for the race organisers to put a timing mat. They would capture an extra split time and be able to automatically identify runners succumbing to this temptation.
Timing mats are usually placed at the same distance in every race: 5k, 10k, 13.1mi, etc. Adding extra mats probably means more cost.
That didn't prevent the 2016 Philadelphia Marathon organizers from placing an unannounced mat at a turnaround point 22 miles into the race. It helped them catch hundreds of cheaters.
And even if you can afford the extra mats, another challenge is where to place them. It's obvious with an out-and-back course, but there are many shortcut opportunities on every loop path, and you can't place a mat at every apex.
One comment in the link says there actually was a timing mat at the turnaround point:
"Fantastic investigative work. HOWEVER. Not sure why you had to do this. You see, I ran the race. And you wouldn't know this because you didn't, but there are four timing mats - start, finish, 10K and turnaround (about 9 miles)."
the answer from Derek is:
"I am aware of the timing mat at the turnaround. The timer did notice this, and she was initially DQ'd but was added back in until they went through everything. In every race there are missed mats - sometimes they malfunction, or they aren't placed across the entire course and are missed by an honest runner."
Is there money on the line? sponsorships for products.
It obviously wasn't just a momentary weakness it was an elaborate plan and for what to brag about it at work or on Instagram? But wouldn't she know she cheated every time she thought or talked about it. That would be hard thing to live with it seems
Edit: wonder how I'd feel if a friend or co-worker did this. I could see it creating some serious trust issues
I didn't find this one as interesting. She took the subway and popped out for the last mile. The half marathon we got a lot of info about the pace, cadence, and heartrate that the runner herself submitted.
These sorts of situations keep appearing with lots of attention. One of the most (in)famous instances has a thread with thousands of pages on the Letsrun.com forum
I did this by accident before, at a 5K. I arrived to the race so late that when I crossed the starting line to BEGIN the race it registered that as my finish time and I'm posted on the result website as finishing in 2nd place.
Publicly shaming people for money is not right way for holding the true, athletic, fair-play spirit of running. While his work and methods are outstanding, it's still ethical burden to ask for donations just to humiliate wrongdoers. Don't get me wrong, i'm a runner myself and i'm all about reporting, but making it opportunistic just doesn't feel right for me.
Not to be too tangential but I'm actually looking for a good running watch (I'm just getting back into running) and possibly heart rate monitor + gps. I noticed in the article they show her watch (to show the discrepancy in distance). What watch is that? What is the running software?
EDIT (I missed the Garmin 235 link and paragraph). I am not sure how I missed it over and over (I was using my phone) and yes I feel dumb for posting the comment.
I don't think it meets the strict definition of docxing if the person in question is using their real name on social profiles along with face pictures and publicizing their results. Although I do sympathize with someone getting publicly shamed.
But I don't think hiding from things happening on the internet is the HN way.
Upvoting an article means it's interesting, not that you agree with the views necessarily.
This is certainly an article from a site that uses mob justice. And like most mob justice about something pretty silly, it's more about getting outraged and getting to pick on someone.
[+] [-] npunt|9 years ago|reply
That said, the poster was pretty fair, and generally refer to her as "the runner". It definitely reads as an obsessive sleuthing, no doubt in part because there were follow-on discoveries made. As the saying goes, "one is a fluke, two is a coincidence, three is a trend", and it seems there's a trend here.
What's interesting is someone in the comments mentioned this:
> The majority of those "30K" instagram followers are fake accounts - many of the likes on her recent photos are spam bots. She 100 percent buys followers/likes.
My guess is a lot of people probably do this to bump up their social status a bit. It's relatively innocent (if a bit narcissistic), though if its true in her case, it fits a clear pattern. Can't verify though, given it seems she's shut down her social media presence.
This is one of those cases where sympathy and revulsion are equally valid emotions. I wouldn't want to be on the other end of the hive-mind, but it is a self-inflicted wound.
[+] [-] PKop|9 years ago|reply
To have their rewards for that effort and commitment stolen by someone who didn't earn it is not fair and should be scrutinized and called out.
To call this "trivial" seems like maybe you have no interest or experience with marathons? It might be trivial to you, but substitute marathons for some challenging endeavor in your life. If your success was stolen by someone who cheated, you wouldn't think it was trivial either.
Certainly mass internet lynch mobs are a bad thing. But what this site does is necessary. There are many instances this kind of behavior documented on sites like this.
Some of these cheaters are obsessive and do it over and over again. It is very unfair to other competitors (even those who have no chance of being winners...), taking credit for the commitment to something that you don't have.
Maybe this kind of thing bothers me more because I've seen it with people who pretend to have military service ("stolen-valor"). It's just frustrating seeing people blatantly pretend to have done something difficult just to get the accolades.
Anyways, I agree that these are self-inflicted wounds for sure.
[+] [-] gabemart|9 years ago|reply
I don't like taking a drive-by, salacious interest in a story that doesn't affect me in the least, but will probably have serious, perhaps devastating consequences for the person involved for a long time professionally.
I also think it's worth pointing out that the original article, while using photos of the person involved, never uses their full name, so is to some extent not google-able. However, the full name is used in the comments, and then extensively in other media coverage of this story, so this is a moot point.
As with the parent, I'm not defending cheating in a competitive race, especially if sponsorship is involved. But ultimately, I can't take any pleasure in a worldwide glee-fuelled shame-fest over what is ultimately a relatively trivial, presumably non-criminal misdeed.
[+] [-] JoeAltmaier|9 years ago|reply
And cheating at public events is not innocent. Its a rupture of the social contract, up there with stealing and libel. It should be dealt with promptly and vigorously. She should be banned from all further events. This is not the sort of person you want in your society, in your business, in your life.
I'm more disturbed with the evident impulse to forgive. Is nothing important any more? Is character and honesty so worthless?
[+] [-] aioprisan|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wingerlang|9 years ago|reply
The whole blog (business?) is about identifying cheaters in marathons. Just in case you missed it (I only noticed the second time I went to the page).
[+] [-] AlwaysRock|9 years ago|reply
I made the conclusion that people are more likely to follow a account that already has a lot of followers. So if the first 7,000 are fake the next 1000 or 2000 will be real and actually valuable followers.
[+] [-] skc|9 years ago|reply
I had thought the Black Mirror episode titled "Nose Dive" was a bit silly at first, but as usual with that series, it 's turning out to be pretty prescient
[+] [-] jackmott|9 years ago|reply
There is a new crazy story every year or so, tune in next year, it is going to be great!
[+] [-] tinus_hn|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cxseven|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Retric|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] seesomesense|9 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] kriro|9 years ago|reply
I have witnessed this pattern before and the spiral that person went on was completely out of character and a progression of small pieces. I wouldn't be shocked if a good number of serious crimes had almost comically trivial root causes that escalated that way.
[+] [-] hiharryhere|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] arctangent|9 years ago|reply
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watergate_scandal
[+] [-] asdfasdf32r3|9 years ago|reply
http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/8282185/san-francisco-gia...
[+] [-] npunt|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] oxide|9 years ago|reply
I also wonder how often they do it, and why. You don't win any money, there is no incentive I can make out beyond bragging rights.
I mean, they aren't exactly footraces, right? It's an endurance test, IMO. Usually for charity, people usually participate for the exercise and show support for a good cause, or so I always assumed.
Winning seems totally arbitrary on one hand, but on the other hand I have to assume people do compete on some level, which makes the cheating more sensible, if you think about it in that sense.
I cheated once when I was a teenager at an online competitive game, so I'm not completely ignorant about the temptation of cheating. I'm used to people cheating at competitive online games, they're usually underskilled and looking to compensate, underage, just looking to spoil the fun, or some combination of those.
Maybe that's the intention here, to spoil the fun for those looking to compete. I suppose I'll never really know, but I can't help but ponder it whenever it comes up.
[+] [-] jaxn|9 years ago|reply
It could be prize money, but that is usually small. There are other types of compensation though. Being a member of a race team, receiving free or discounted gear, free entries to races, and some level of celebrity within the running community.
It's fun and rewarding, and a ton of hard work.
I suspect that a significant portion of her world is now rocked. In order to run those times, she is running every day and probably participating in group workouts, etc. A significant part of her social network is likely tied to her success as a runner, even though it is not her primary job.
I can only imagine how difficult this must be, which makes her decision to cheat so baffling.
[+] [-] jmcgough|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] greeneggs|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nicky0|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Dowwie|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] flocial|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ajeet_dhaliwal|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] purple-again|9 years ago|reply
Different people have different morals, and honor isn't as universal as we would hope.
[+] [-] jomar|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gk1|9 years ago|reply
That didn't prevent the 2016 Philadelphia Marathon organizers from placing an unannounced mat at a turnaround point 22 miles into the race. It helped them catch hundreds of cheaters.
And even if you can afford the extra mats, another challenge is where to place them. It's obvious with an out-and-back course, but there are many shortcut opportunities on every loop path, and you can't place a mat at every apex.
[+] [-] Jenya_|9 years ago|reply
"Fantastic investigative work. HOWEVER. Not sure why you had to do this. You see, I ran the race. And you wouldn't know this because you didn't, but there are four timing mats - start, finish, 10K and turnaround (about 9 miles)."
the answer from Derek is:
"I am aware of the timing mat at the turnaround. The timer did notice this, and she was initially DQ'd but was added back in until they went through everything. In every race there are missed mats - sometimes they malfunction, or they aren't placed across the entire course and are missed by an honest runner."
[+] [-] markcerqueira|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rdtsc|9 years ago|reply
Is there money on the line? sponsorships for products.
It obviously wasn't just a momentary weakness it was an elaborate plan and for what to brag about it at work or on Instagram? But wouldn't she know she cheated every time she thought or talked about it. That would be hard thing to live with it seems
Edit: wonder how I'd feel if a friend or co-worker did this. I could see it creating some serious trust issues
[+] [-] nl|9 years ago|reply
Also related to Boston: http://www.runnersworld.com/boston-marathon/dozens-suspected...
[+] [-] wapz|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] thyselius|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] adenadel|9 years ago|reply
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=6479539
There's also the case of the guy who was faking his run accross America
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=7355147
For whatever reason, this group of people in the online running community gets really into discovering who is cheating.
[+] [-] southphillyman|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] creo|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] agentgt|9 years ago|reply
EDIT (I missed the Garmin 235 link and paragraph). I am not sure how I missed it over and over (I was using my phone) and yes I feel dumb for posting the comment.
[+] [-] unknown|9 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] metaphor|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] davesque|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bykovich|9 years ago|reply
EDIT: I was mistaken -- this site is dedicated to ratting out cheating runners. Whatever floats your boat, I suppose.
[+] [-] iamlegion|9 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] risingintonatio|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] taoufix|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] TLLtchvL8KZ|9 years ago|reply
Actually she is a fully grown up woman.
[+] [-] flocial|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] aaron695|9 years ago|reply
HN shouldn't approve of articles doxxing.
But I don't think hiding from things happening on the internet is the HN way.
Upvoting an article means it's interesting, not that you agree with the views necessarily.
This is certainly an article from a site that uses mob justice. And like most mob justice about something pretty silly, it's more about getting outraged and getting to pick on someone.
[+] [-] iamlegion|9 years ago|reply
[deleted]