OK, wait, this does not make sense. If half of Romania an Bulgaria wanted to come to the UK, they would already be there. Because free movement already exists.
Why would anyone decide now to "quickly move to the UK", just because they are leaving the EU? I would rather see this as a disincentive to move there, as a EU citicen, right now...
I agree. There already was a (failed) "Romanian invasion" several years ago. Furthermore, the recent events & decisions have given the UK, at leas in my immigrant eyes, a relative sense of insecurity. I would personally not relocate without knowing how the brexiters would react towards immigrants, regardless of the legality of their stay.
Because you're probably a high-paid professional (reasonable assumption for a HN user) and are not considering staying in the country illegally after you arrive.
It's sad how even the Independent is now taken by misleading headlines. They are considering stopping it 'after a “cut-off date”'' to prevent abuse of people from poor eastern Europe countries to flood UK before it leaves the EU. Right there in the first couple of paragraphs.
I used to have a lot of respect for the BBC, Financial Times, and The Independent. Even The Guardian being partisan had the basic decency of putting things in perspective of the opposing side.
Nowadays all turned into hardcore fanatics looking how to manipulate as much as possible the news to provoke reactions in readers.
Perhaps they were cornered into this by the readership. And by Facebook and other social networks creating a cutthroat environment where only nasty clickbait survives.
It's very sad. We are witnessing the end of respectable journalism.
What are you talking about? What is misleading about this headline? It doesn't contain literally every detail, because yes you are supposed to actually read the article. As you mentioned, the important details are right there in the first couple paragraphs, not missing or buried near the end.
> I used to have a lot of respect for the BBC, Financial Times, and The Independent. Even The Guardian being partisan had the basic decency of putting things in perspective of the opposing side.
A family watches the local news while awaiting their grandfather's arrival at Sunday dinner. The lead story is about a person causing chaos driving the wrong way on the highway. They quickly realize that the person is on the same highway that their grandfather usually takes to their house and call their grandfather to warn him.
"Grandpa, there's a person going the wrong way on the highway! Be careful!"
"_A_ person?" the grandfather replies angrily. "There's hundreds of 'em!"
I don't think that the headline is misleading one bit.
You're just making assumptions about the time of this order going in effect to be right away which can't be deduced from the headline.
You'd be right if the headline read like this
"Theresa May ends EU citizens’ rights to live in UK"
Which implies immediate action taking place.
The fact that the headline gets the "to end", or in other cases "set to end", suggests that the subject of the sentence is expected to do something in the future and not in the present.
> They are considering stopping it 'after a “cut-off date”'' to prevent abuse of people from poor eastern Europe countries to flood UK before it leaves the EU. Right there in the first couple of paragraphs.
It very much is an "end to EU citizens' right to residency" for those many Romanians and Bulgarians who enter after March 15th. So there is nothing misleading in the headline. Given that it affects thousands of people it's not hyperbole either. It's also a blatant violation of the EU treaty, which has not yet been terminated.
Not the best way to start the negotiations and I suspect British nationals will experience reciprocal measures in Bulgaria/Romania.
It doesn't pay to have an informative headline because revenue is based on the amount of people who open your webpage, not the amount of people who get informed by you. This is another bit of damage done by the disgusting ad industry.
Yup I fully agree, the change in the BBC has become the most disheartening for me. One of their subheadlines right now is "Nine epic award fails" - like something straight out of Buzzfeed
Is there a government resource supporting these statistics:
> 3.6 million EU citizens who are already in Britain
> 1.2 million British citizens living in other EU countries
I like the Economist in this regard, they seem to always reference source data. It could be explained by the differences in editorial policies or the fact that the Economist is on a weekly release schedule, so their fact-checkers have more time to backup their inputs.
Theres also the fact that a large number of British emigrants are beyond the pensioner age and the bulk live in either Spain or Ireland.
It will pose a massive problem for old Brits in Spain when their right to claim healthcare via the Spanish system as facilitated by the EU will cause some of them to move back to the UK and this will compounded by placing an increasing strain on NHS which has come under cuts.
The EU citizens in the UK by contrast are typically young, educated working professionals and will be an economic boon for the EU to take some back.
> 3.2 million of the non-UK born residents were born in the EU (16% of whom held British nationality, 83% held EU nationality and 1% held non-EU nationality).
> 5.4 million of the non-UK born residents were born outside of the EU (54% of whom held British nationality, 5% held EU nationality and 41% held non-EU nationality) – a reflection that EU nationals have the freedom of movement between EU countries, whereas for non-EU nationals there is an incentive to acquire British nationality.
This should cause inflation of prices as the price of food increase. This is due to it being more expensive to produce food in the UK versus importing it from for example Spain and the Netherlands. Thus the average UK consumer will be poorer.
It also creates more jobs, less of that money leaving the UK as remittances, and pressure on businesses with workers paid so low that consumption of basic products eats up a large part of their wages to raise those wages. So who knows how it will shake out. It's certainly not an unambiguous moral good to have a class of people in the country who can unofficially be treated worse than the native-born because they're expected to live in squalor to support their families back home.
It makes sense, I don't think anyone could realistically expect anything different. Considering it's basically a starting negotiating position, it's actually pretty good from my perspective (EU national who has formally been granted permanent residency by exercising his treaty rights).
Obviously the devil is in the details, i.e. what it will mean exactly "after the cutoff date": if one has lived in UK long enough to qualify for treaty-rights but never actually exercised them formally before the cutoff, can he still do it after that date? That's the situation most people are likely in, at the moment. A reasonable government would answer yes, of course, but recent news seem to indicate they are looking for any excuse to kick people out, so it's not a given.
If you are an EU citizen living in UK, you should absolutely ask to exercise your rights TODAY; do not delay, do not trust news reports, it's just a bit of bureaucracy but could make a big difference in your future. Make sure you send documents as recorded delivery and track each and every date.
If you are an EU citizen looking to move to the UK: just don't. This country has decided they don't need you and me, they don't deserve our labour, our ideas and our taxes.
My perspective is a little bit different. If they want to kick me out, I'll go somewhere else.
I am Irish; the probability is high that my nationality will be treated differently owing to history. But if they want me to ask to stay, they can go fuck themselves.
Until the end of the two years of the Article 50 negotiation (or before, if both the EU and the UK agree), the UK is a full member of the EU, with all the obligations that this entitles.
That includes the right to live and work of citizens of other EU countries.
Restricting that unilaterally is a gross violation of the treaties.
> If you are an EU citizen looking to move to the UK: just don't. This country has decided they don't need you and me, they don't deserve our labour, our ideas and our taxes.
Well, 52% of the people who voted kinda, sorta said that. The rest of us are just being dragged along at the moment.
"This country has decided they don't need you and me, they don't deserve our labour, our ideas and our taxes."
What about an EU citizen deciding to move to the US, Canada, Australia, Brazil or India? These countries were never in the EU. Did they therefore decide they don't need EU citizens? If not, why is the UK after it exits from the EU necessarily a less welcoming place for EU citizens than other non-EU countries?
> It makes sense, I don't think anyone could realistically expect anything different
I might not expect it, but I do hope that a country that prides itself on the rule of law, and the historic influence it had in the world, would not break the terms of an international treaty.
> it's actually pretty good from my perspective
Are you familiar with the British expression, "I'm all right, Jack"?
> exercise your rights TODAY ... it's just a bit of bureaucracy
Ah, the 85 page form with the £65 fee, which many of my friends are worried they'll not be able to fill in correctly -- especially after all the stories in the British press of the long-term residents whose applications were rejected.
For comparison, the Danish form for permanent residency has 6 pages in English (and 6 in Danish, it's bilingual), no fee, and only requires copies of the last few tax returns and a current job contract. Unfortunately, even if Britain remains in the UK until, say, 31 March 2019, I'll still be a few months short of the 5 year requirement.
> If you are an EU citizen living in UK, you should absolutely ask to exercise your rights TODAY; do not delay, do not trust news reports, it's just a bit of bureaucracy but could make a big difference in your future. Make sure you send documents as recorded delivery and track each and every date.
Apparently my Dutch friend who has a PhD funded by the UK government can't apply for permanent residency because she doesn't earn enough to meet the £35k minimum earning set by the UK government. She's been here for almost 8 years. She's lucky that she's getting married and her now-fiance earns enough to make her qualify for spousal visa, but I know tons of others who are not so lucky.
> If you are an EU citizen looking to move to the UK: just don't
I call BS on that. UK is quite open to LEGAL worker immigration from anywhere around the world. What's the big deal? I worked in UK for years and I'm not EU. Many Americans, Asians, Australians, etc. go through these channels without issue. After a few years they give you residentship. And shortly after that they give you citizenship.
It's crazy how this is all made to sound like UK is going to become Cuba or something. ALARMIST NONSENSE by radicalization and willful ignorance.
As I read it, this means that EU nationals will be able to enter the UK up until it leaves the EU, but when it has left, those who entered after the cut-off date will not necessarily be allowed to stay.
It doesn't look too unreasonably, and probably doesn't violate EU rules by itself, but I wonder about a few things:
* How will it effect EU nationals getting for example a mortgage in the UK before the exit? Normally banks require a permanent right of residency and an EU passport is enough to prove it.
* How will EU nationals who entered before the cut-off date prove it to the government? Immigration applications can often be ridiculously cumbersome. Will someone who has lived in the UK for 20 years be expected to submit detailed documentation for every international trip in those 20 years?
As an EU cit who left five years ago, working through short gigs and remote consultancy made me appreciate their persoective but also think that we are all going for a bumpy road and united might be better than alone.
The UK, and especially London is a major startup hub, with many Europeans working or running companies here. It's sort of like articles about housing in San Francisco: not directly related to tech, but indirectly very important.
[+] [-] struppi|9 years ago|reply
Why would anyone decide now to "quickly move to the UK", just because they are leaving the EU? I would rather see this as a disincentive to move there, as a EU citicen, right now...
[+] [-] teniutza|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] laurent123456|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] golergka|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tiatia|9 years ago|reply
Bulgaria and Romania are both EU countries, neither is Schengen.
[+] [-] tonyedgecombe|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] alecco|9 years ago|reply
I used to have a lot of respect for the BBC, Financial Times, and The Independent. Even The Guardian being partisan had the basic decency of putting things in perspective of the opposing side.
Nowadays all turned into hardcore fanatics looking how to manipulate as much as possible the news to provoke reactions in readers.
Perhaps they were cornered into this by the readership. And by Facebook and other social networks creating a cutthroat environment where only nasty clickbait survives.
It's very sad. We are witnessing the end of respectable journalism.
[+] [-] burkaman|9 years ago|reply
How would you have phrased this headline?
[+] [-] hackerboos|9 years ago|reply
"Theresa May poised to announce end of free movement for new EU migrants next month"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/26/theresa-may-poise...
[+] [-] heydenberk|9 years ago|reply
A family watches the local news while awaiting their grandfather's arrival at Sunday dinner. The lead story is about a person causing chaos driving the wrong way on the highway. They quickly realize that the person is on the same highway that their grandfather usually takes to their house and call their grandfather to warn him.
"Grandpa, there's a person going the wrong way on the highway! Be careful!"
"_A_ person?" the grandfather replies angrily. "There's hundreds of 'em!"
[+] [-] gotchange|9 years ago|reply
You're just making assumptions about the time of this order going in effect to be right away which can't be deduced from the headline.
You'd be right if the headline read like this
"Theresa May ends EU citizens’ rights to live in UK"
Which implies immediate action taking place.
The fact that the headline gets the "to end", or in other cases "set to end", suggests that the subject of the sentence is expected to do something in the future and not in the present.
[+] [-] oblio|9 years ago|reply
What abuse? People finding jobs in the UK?
[+] [-] accountface|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] flexie|9 years ago|reply
Not the best way to start the negotiations and I suspect British nationals will experience reciprocal measures in Bulgaria/Romania.
[+] [-] unknown|9 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] cyborgx7|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] EasyTiger_|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Symbiote|9 years ago|reply
They even have a whole site dedicated to clickbait crap: https://www.indy100.com/ ("A bagel started a brawl on a train and it was terrifying.")
[+] [-] mcintyre1994|9 years ago|reply
> The European Union has apparently argued that the cut-off date should be the same date as the day the UK actually leaves the EU.
-
They're not sounding particularly muddled or mean-spirited to me..
[+] [-] rodionos|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] s_dev|9 years ago|reply
It will pose a massive problem for old Brits in Spain when their right to claim healthcare via the Spanish system as facilitated by the EU will cause some of them to move back to the UK and this will compounded by placing an increasing strain on NHS which has come under cuts.
The EU citizens in the UK by contrast are typically young, educated working professionals and will be an economic boon for the EU to take some back.
[+] [-] DanBC|9 years ago|reply
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populati...
> 3.2 million of the non-UK born residents were born in the EU (16% of whom held British nationality, 83% held EU nationality and 1% held non-EU nationality).
> 5.4 million of the non-UK born residents were born outside of the EU (54% of whom held British nationality, 5% held EU nationality and 41% held non-EU nationality) – a reflection that EU nationals have the freedom of movement between EU countries, whereas for non-EU nationals there is an incentive to acquire British nationality.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populati...
> Around 900,000 UK citizens are long-term residents of other EU countries; the largest age group is aged 30 to 49 years.
I'm not sure where Independent is getting their numbers.
[+] [-] Symbiote|9 years ago|reply
https://www.ons.gov.uk/search?q=eu+citizen seems a good start.
[+] [-] acd|9 years ago|reply
Not limited only products such as vegetables.
[+] [-] pessimizer|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] alecco|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] toyg|9 years ago|reply
Obviously the devil is in the details, i.e. what it will mean exactly "after the cutoff date": if one has lived in UK long enough to qualify for treaty-rights but never actually exercised them formally before the cutoff, can he still do it after that date? That's the situation most people are likely in, at the moment. A reasonable government would answer yes, of course, but recent news seem to indicate they are looking for any excuse to kick people out, so it's not a given.
If you are an EU citizen living in UK, you should absolutely ask to exercise your rights TODAY; do not delay, do not trust news reports, it's just a bit of bureaucracy but could make a big difference in your future. Make sure you send documents as recorded delivery and track each and every date.
If you are an EU citizen looking to move to the UK: just don't. This country has decided they don't need you and me, they don't deserve our labour, our ideas and our taxes.
[+] [-] barrkel|9 years ago|reply
I am Irish; the probability is high that my nationality will be treated differently owing to history. But if they want me to ask to stay, they can go fuck themselves.
[+] [-] jaimebuelta|9 years ago|reply
Until the end of the two years of the Article 50 negotiation (or before, if both the EU and the UK agree), the UK is a full member of the EU, with all the obligations that this entitles.
That includes the right to live and work of citizens of other EU countries.
Restricting that unilaterally is a gross violation of the treaties.
[+] [-] dan1234|9 years ago|reply
Well, 52% of the people who voted kinda, sorta said that. The rest of us are just being dragged along at the moment.
[+] [-] _yosefk|9 years ago|reply
What about an EU citizen deciding to move to the US, Canada, Australia, Brazil or India? These countries were never in the EU. Did they therefore decide they don't need EU citizens? If not, why is the UK after it exits from the EU necessarily a less welcoming place for EU citizens than other non-EU countries?
[+] [-] Symbiote|9 years ago|reply
I might not expect it, but I do hope that a country that prides itself on the rule of law, and the historic influence it had in the world, would not break the terms of an international treaty.
> it's actually pretty good from my perspective
Are you familiar with the British expression, "I'm all right, Jack"?
> exercise your rights TODAY ... it's just a bit of bureaucracy
Ah, the 85 page form with the £65 fee, which many of my friends are worried they'll not be able to fill in correctly -- especially after all the stories in the British press of the long-term residents whose applications were rejected.
For comparison, the Danish form for permanent residency has 6 pages in English (and 6 in Danish, it's bilingual), no fee, and only requires copies of the last few tax returns and a current job contract. Unfortunately, even if Britain remains in the UK until, say, 31 March 2019, I'll still be a few months short of the 5 year requirement.
[+] [-] yandie|9 years ago|reply
Apparently my Dutch friend who has a PhD funded by the UK government can't apply for permanent residency because she doesn't earn enough to meet the £35k minimum earning set by the UK government. She's been here for almost 8 years. She's lucky that she's getting married and her now-fiance earns enough to make her qualify for spousal visa, but I know tons of others who are not so lucky.
[+] [-] alecco|9 years ago|reply
I call BS on that. UK is quite open to LEGAL worker immigration from anywhere around the world. What's the big deal? I worked in UK for years and I'm not EU. Many Americans, Asians, Australians, etc. go through these channels without issue. After a few years they give you residentship. And shortly after that they give you citizenship.
It's crazy how this is all made to sound like UK is going to become Cuba or something. ALARMIST NONSENSE by radicalization and willful ignorance.
[+] [-] lukasm|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Gys|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dgelks|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] SmellyGeekBoy|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] TorKlingberg|9 years ago|reply
It doesn't look too unreasonably, and probably doesn't violate EU rules by itself, but I wonder about a few things:
* How will it effect EU nationals getting for example a mortgage in the UK before the exit? Normally banks require a permanent right of residency and an EU passport is enough to prove it.
* How will EU nationals who entered before the cut-off date prove it to the government? Immigration applications can often be ridiculously cumbersome. Will someone who has lived in the UK for 20 years be expected to submit detailed documentation for every international trip in those 20 years?
[+] [-] ianopolous|9 years ago|reply
https://www.freemovement.org.uk/briefing-legal-status-eu-cit...
[+] [-] DrNuke|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kozikow|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kriro|9 years ago|reply
a) Saying that the same rules will apply to UK citizens living in EU countries at that point in time (hard line).
b) Saying "UK folks welcome".
c) No comment/ignore.
[+] [-] sparkzilla|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] adrianN|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] TorKlingberg|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Anderkent|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] EasyTiger_|9 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] customersupport|9 years ago|reply
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