This is huge. Early analysis is that this is a net positive for Korean democracy since the entire process, from protests to ouster was relatively peaceful and the people involved in the ouster tried to follow the rule of law as much as possible. It's exercised for the first time a part of the legal system that's never been explored in the country.
At each stage of the very complex process, the government figured out what to do without too much fuss, even operating as a temporary parliamentary democracy.
It wasn't too long ago that this could have gone very differently: seizure of power, military occupation, coups, violence and corruption.
This is Korea's Nixon moment.
edit
There's some very serious discussion regarding criminal charges they may now be brought now that she's freed from Presidential immunity.
edit2
For folks who want more background on what this is all about, "Ask a Korean" has done a magnificent job of writing the charges up.
My cousin is a historian of Korea, and well, Korean herself. She says this president is like Korea's GWB. Shamelessly very right wing, a lot of gaffes related to speech and behavior. There are going to be a lot of happy people tonight.
This is indeed huge. I left Korea right after Park Jung-hee was assassinated by one of his officers. Predictably, this was followed by a military coup and martial law. Park Jung-hee himself seized the reign by means of his own military coup against the previous president. His daughter, Park guen-hye, is now outed by the Supreme court, peacefully. In the old south Korea I remember, the same court had ruled in favor of the military regime to condemn Kim dae-jung to death sentence. Kim dae-jung later was elected president after the democratization of south Korea. I remember the heavily armed soldiers everywhere as I was leaving the country, after the assassination. That is my last memory of Korea. I have not been back since 1979. Perhaps now it is time for me to go back and visit. Congratulations to the Korean people.
You should definitely go back. I've been visiting Korea for 16 years, it's an amazing, dynamic country that seems to literally transform itself every few years. Even with only a couple years in between trips, I can hardly recognize it.
It's not perfect, but no place is, but I have a strong sense that it's changing for the better.
This is obviously a bit pedantic but technically she was already impeached. This article is about her being convicted in the impeachment trial. The post title also doesn't match with the article title which more correctly states that she's been ousted.
As a Korean, I feel bittersweet for my mother country. It's embarrassing that this is happening, yet I feel relieved now that people of Korea can move forward - here's hoping for electing a more qualified president next.
Don't feel embarrassed. It's better that a country can actually fix its problems peacefully rather than outright denying it has a problem and trying to go on with business as usual. Peaceful resolution - for the better - is something to be proud of in a democracy.
You should feel more proud than embarrassed that this is happening. Occasionally, an unqualified candidate will be elected. The ability to remove that person from power is much more important than the difficult problem of making sure the person is never elected in the first place. On the other hand, I do feel empathy for your feeling of embarrassment, as I am an American (yes I'm referring to the Trump election).
As a fellow Korean, please don't feel embarrassed.
Unnecessary embarrassment at the sight of anything that could possibly cast a negative light on our country is one of the major causes of the trouble that we've been in. It makes us prone to hide our problems and pretend that everything is all right. It makes us blind to the shortcomings of our preferred political leaders. It makes us resent the few brave journalists and activists who dare to bring these problems to light. All of this hampers progress.
The same misguided sense of pride and embarrassment is at the root of Japan's constant refusal to admit their war crimes. They feel embarrassed that they are grandchildren of war criminals. But if they keep thinking that way, they will never be free of embarrassment. The only way forward is to do admit that something bad happened and to take pride in your passion to fix it. I truly hope that all Asian cultures can learn this, including Koreans and Japanese.
I'm not Korean, but overall this whole series of events gave me new respect for the nation. It's unfortunate that everyone had to suffer through her leadership, but it also really says something that democratic rule of law is so well established there that a malfunctioning leader could be peacefully removed.
Koreans have absolutely nothing to feel embarrassed about. I - and I'm sure many others - have actually gained a huge amount of respect for SK over this as it confirms the strength of your democracy and justice system.
The South Korean presidential scandal is one of the odder bits of contemporary political history. Imagine an alternate-history US President Hillary Clinton being impeached over PizzaGate and it starts to get close. Besides the actual corruption mentioned in the article, there are credible reports swirling of a "8 Goddesses" cabal and various occult practices.
Imagine that Americans elected Tom Cruise to the White House and it turns out that the Church of Scientology was pulling his strings. That would be an apt analogy.
This is somehow connected to geopolitics in the area and the THAAD project, since the US government is worried the next administration may not be so in favour of it (left leaning parties tend towards disarmament, as crazy as that sound with an insane neighbour north of the border)
>as crazy as that sound with an insane neighbour north of the border
Not every country sees international relations as a form of game theory, with mutual assured destruction as an important component. Korean reunification can be a preferable option instead of threatening the people that used to be part of your community, but had the bad luck to be at the wrong side of the ideological fight between the US and the USSR.
> left leaning parties tend towards disarmament, ...
That's what conservatives say, but doesn't match reality. Under the liberal president Roh Moo-Hyun, military budget increased by 8.8% per year on average. Under his conservative successor Lee Myung-Bak, 5.2% [1].
Roh also made an agreement with the US to finally take back wartime military command. It's an inconvenient secret that if war breaks out in Korea, South Korea's military command automatically transfers to the US. We don't have authority to command our own military. What kind of independent country does that? And then all the conservatives, including active and retired generals, blamed Roh for weakening our military. (According to them, having the authority to command our own military makes us less dependent on the US. But we can always trust the US: only a North Korean sympathizer would doubt that the US will be there to protect us. Therefore it's a communist plot. Or something like that.)
Incidentally, these generals' argument prompted Roh to utter the now famous phrase, "부끄러운 줄 알아야지!" (Know your shame!)
His successor Lee asked US to please take back the command. Wartime military command is still in the hands of the US.
> The nation now must hold a presidential election within 60 days, making it likely to fall on May 9.
This is different from how it works in USG where Congress elects a new President themselves from within Congress. At least that's what my understanding is from googling around, no President has been convicted in an impeachment trial.
Edit: As later comments have pointed out I'm wrong here, instead the normal line of succession applies.
The US Congress does not choose a new president if the current president is removed. The normal line of succession applies: Vice President, then Speaker of the House, then President Pro Tem of the Senate, etc. This was clarified in the 25th amendment.
No US president has been convicted in an impeachment trial, but when Nixon resigned, the normal rules of succession applied. Congress did appoint Gerald Ford as VP before Nixon resigned, but they were only able to do that because Nixon's previous VP had himself resigned, because he was a crook too. That is probably a source of confusion for a lot of people.
Reading the description of the political climate upthread, the majority in parliament in SK is opposition, split between two parties. Here, the R's have a majority in the House which impeaches, so our chances are unfortunately not that great.
[+] [-] bane|9 years ago|reply
At each stage of the very complex process, the government figured out what to do without too much fuss, even operating as a temporary parliamentary democracy.
It wasn't too long ago that this could have gone very differently: seizure of power, military occupation, coups, violence and corruption.
This is Korea's Nixon moment.
edit There's some very serious discussion regarding criminal charges they may now be brought now that she's freed from Presidential immunity.
edit2 For folks who want more background on what this is all about, "Ask a Korean" has done a magnificent job of writing the charges up.
http://askakorean.blogspot.com/2016/11/the-ultimate-choi-soo...
http://askakorean.blogspot.com/2016/12/the-ultimate-choi-soo...
[+] [-] Flammy|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ComputerGuru|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nether|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] poofyleek|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bane|9 years ago|reply
It's not perfect, but no place is, but I have a strong sense that it's changing for the better.
[+] [-] lifthrasiir|9 years ago|reply
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_Restoration
[+] [-] jdoliner|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pcurve|9 years ago|reply
But the way impeachment process works in SK, once the process begins, you are no longer able to function as president.
So 'effectively', she was already impeached.
Obviously I'm the one being pedantic. lol.
[+] [-] sideproject|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nercht12|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] throwaway17854|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kijin|9 years ago|reply
Unnecessary embarrassment at the sight of anything that could possibly cast a negative light on our country is one of the major causes of the trouble that we've been in. It makes us prone to hide our problems and pretend that everything is all right. It makes us blind to the shortcomings of our preferred political leaders. It makes us resent the few brave journalists and activists who dare to bring these problems to light. All of this hampers progress.
The same misguided sense of pride and embarrassment is at the root of Japan's constant refusal to admit their war crimes. They feel embarrassed that they are grandchildren of war criminals. But if they keep thinking that way, they will never be free of embarrassment. The only way forward is to do admit that something bad happened and to take pride in your passion to fix it. I truly hope that all Asian cultures can learn this, including Koreans and Japanese.
[+] [-] mwfunk|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] system16|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] magic_beans|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] h4nkoslo|9 years ago|reply
http://askakorean.blogspot.com/2016/10/the-irrational-downfa...
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/10/29/499864915/...
http://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_national/76...
https://medium.com/@thepenningtonlens/the-south-korean-puppe...
[+] [-] nether|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kijin|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hooo|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] xufi|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pcurve|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] howon92|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] vermontdevil|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] curuinor|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gotofritz|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] clydethefrog|9 years ago|reply
Not every country sees international relations as a form of game theory, with mutual assured destruction as an important component. Korean reunification can be a preferable option instead of threatening the people that used to be part of your community, but had the bad luck to be at the wrong side of the ideological fight between the US and the USSR.
[+] [-] yongjik|9 years ago|reply
That's what conservatives say, but doesn't match reality. Under the liberal president Roh Moo-Hyun, military budget increased by 8.8% per year on average. Under his conservative successor Lee Myung-Bak, 5.2% [1].
Roh also made an agreement with the US to finally take back wartime military command. It's an inconvenient secret that if war breaks out in Korea, South Korea's military command automatically transfers to the US. We don't have authority to command our own military. What kind of independent country does that? And then all the conservatives, including active and retired generals, blamed Roh for weakening our military. (According to them, having the authority to command our own military makes us less dependent on the US. But we can always trust the US: only a North Korean sympathizer would doubt that the US will be there to protect us. Therefore it's a communist plot. Or something like that.)
Incidentally, these generals' argument prompted Roh to utter the now famous phrase, "부끄러운 줄 알아야지!" (Know your shame!)
His successor Lee asked US to please take back the command. Wartime military command is still in the hands of the US.
[1] http://ppss.kr/archives/9256 (in Korean, sorry)
[+] [-] hackerboos|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] chompomonim|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jdoliner|9 years ago|reply
This is different from how it works in USG where Congress elects a new President themselves from within Congress. At least that's what my understanding is from googling around, no President has been convicted in an impeachment trial.
Edit: As later comments have pointed out I'm wrong here, instead the normal line of succession applies.
[+] [-] twblalock|9 years ago|reply
No US president has been convicted in an impeachment trial, but when Nixon resigned, the normal rules of succession applied. Congress did appoint Gerald Ford as VP before Nixon resigned, but they were only able to do that because Nixon's previous VP had himself resigned, because he was a crook too. That is probably a source of confusion for a lot of people.
[+] [-] tptacek|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] johnhenry|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rjeli|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nojvek|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] beedogs|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] warcher|9 years ago|reply
...asking for a friend.
[+] [-] unknown|9 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] unknown|9 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] gingerbread-man|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] treme|9 years ago|reply
2) Get 2% of the population participating in a peaceful protest & demonstration to put pressure on congress.
3) ???
4) profit!!
*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sohn_Suk-hee
[+] [-] Numberwang|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] noobermin|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lacampbell|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|9 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] 67726e|9 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] bitmapbrother|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jdjebc82747|9 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] dang|9 years ago|reply
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13836006 and marked it off-topic.