So if I am reading this right, LSD reduced fearful reactions. I initially mis-read it as a correlation between LSD and fear.
Part of the reason psychedelics is kept away from treatment is because of those occasional bad reactions. You never know who might get a bad trip and for what reason. I wish psychedelics were researched without the baggage of "possible treatment". This would allow for the study for it's own sake, imho.
If anyone is interested in reading some first time experiences of random first time users here is a link. [0]
Anyway who has used them over the years and hope they are around for future generations, consider giving as they are more important than ever with the explosion in RCs and analogues where a slight mishap in dosage can result in death
> "So if I am reading this right, LSD reduced fearful reactions. I initially mis-read it as a correlation between LSD and fear."
Not really, the results were a bit more subtle and technical than that. They just found that there was a (fairly small) negative correlation on left amygdalar BOLD signal in the active group. They did not measure subjective fear, nor did they make any explicit claims about it. Just because blood oxygen levels changed does not mean the participants necessarily experienced less fear or anything different from the placebo group (in terms of fear at least).
The authors also mention toward the end of the paper that this was a fairly small dose, and that larger doses would likely induce more anxiety than placebo:
"Third, we can only provide data about one moderate dose. Higher doses of psychedelics are possibly difficult to use with fMRI, because they are more likely to induce anxiety,45 although the overall effects are still described as positive in the higher doses investigated.2, 45 The observed anxiolytic effect probably also depends on personal and environmental factors and might thus be different in the mentally ill or in uncontrolled settings."
Definitely agree with you about the possibility of an unexpected reaction: I had to experience my friend losing touch with reality, taking off his clothes, running around my dormitory almost naked, and finally pulling the fire alarm. He was last seen that day being handcuffed and put into an ambulance. In case you're wondering, he took about 200 ug of real LSD.
'Possible treatment' is almost a requirement to publish to these journals. Its usually some fluff added for that effect. Besides, one can easily make a connection to disease, however remote
This is a little disappointing considering that their conclusions can be summarized with the sentence "These data suggest that acute administration of LSD modulates the engagement of brain regions that mediate emotional processing". Not particularly surprising to anyone who has ever tried or read anything about LSD
A lot of the psychedelics literature is similarly unexciting unfortunately, but the reason is this "obvious" groundwork hasn't been done yet in a scientific context. So give it time and support and hopefully researchers' will have the opportunity to get to the more interesting bits!
The paper includes a caveat at the end: "Our study has several limitations. First, although the trial was formally double-blinded, assignment to placebo or LSD was unavoidably unblinded by the obvious psychedelic effects caused by the dose used."
You do raise an interesting point: would there be any value in emulating (some of) the subjective effects of a psychedelic to 'increase' blinding. Perhaps have all study participants wear VR headsets piping in video from their surroundings, then randomly assign a 'trippy' filter across groups so that some of the placebo group might (mistakenly) think that they were tripping?
Yeah it's pointless to even use that methodology when the psychoactivity of LSD is already well documented, and the effects are self-evident to the user. It might be appropriate in a microdosing trial or something but not in one where an active dose is being administered.
Interesting. I would have come to the oppisite conclusion, namely that lsd would increase the response to fearful stimuli. It makes sense. My friends who have had bad trips weren't triggered by fearful, external stimuli. They were caused mostly by repressed emotions or thoughts that lsd or mushrooms brought to the fore.
From my experience and observations, bad trips can be powerful experiences that have a positive effect, forcing you to face that which you have hidden away. Of course, it can be damaging as well.
A commenter here said, [this only measured a small chemical effect and did not make any claims about real fear]
Let me add some color for you, it's absolutely real. I predict the drug will eventually be validated as one of the most powerful and useful therapeutic substances discovered to date.
>>impaired recognition of fearful faces, while it did not significantly affect recognition of neutral, happy and angry faces
This characterization is a bit misleading. Recognition of faces is not impaired at all, recognition is also not impaired of some of your most terrifying inner thoughts. Instead, you recognize them fine and are simply not bothered because you perceive them in an unbiased, rational context.
>>exhibits some ‘empathogenic’ effects (such as increased openness and trust)
Some? I know, good medical science has to be conservative. However empathy, emotional connection and understanding, can become almost savant like. I won't give an example - too hard to offer an anecdote and not sound hyperbolic or like an exaggerated account. How's this: I believe it to be significantly understated.
Let that sink in. Who would believe taking an anti-depressant once could change your life years later? They would not believe it, because like every other mental health drug, anti-depressants can easily stop working (to the degree they work at all) as soon as you stop taking them. This is not like that. It's some kind of unusual mechanism that for reasons not yet entirely clear, is just very different from other drugs.
I would ask that no one act on my opinion by using illegal drugs. I'm not worried about liability, or even legality. The problem is simply that self-administering street drugs comes with quite a bit of risk that for some reason, a lot of people don't mind ignoring. Worst case you could be intentionally poisoned as part of a scam and die. You could get the wrong substance, for example fentanyl is unknowingly taken all the time, and again easily die. You might somehow get the real thing, but precise dosing is difficult enough that overdosing LSD is very common. Having the wrong dose will not kill you, but the results can be bad enough many people feel like death would have been an easier option. Some people believe that impurities and imprecise dosing are responsible for a lot of what people describe as "bad trips".
I don't have a dog in this hunt, I will simply point out that people who have used LSD have been claiming that it's pretty much magic, that everyone should try it, etc... for decades. The very guarded initial ventures into real research seem to be entirely secondary to the evangelical zeal of some people who have taken the drug in question, and feel it's "essential".
Edit: I should point out that obviously, they could have reached this conclusion because it is that amazing, but a lot of people have ironclad convictions about everything from drugs to religion after all. The research should hopefully offer an answer that can be, frankly, believed.
[+] [-] itchyjunk|9 years ago|reply
Part of the reason psychedelics is kept away from treatment is because of those occasional bad reactions. You never know who might get a bad trip and for what reason. I wish psychedelics were researched without the baggage of "possible treatment". This would allow for the study for it's own sake, imho.
If anyone is interested in reading some first time experiences of random first time users here is a link. [0]
-------------------
[0] https://erowid.org/experiences/subs/exp_LSD_First_Times.shtm...
[+] [-] senorjazz|9 years ago|reply
https://erowid.org/donations/donations.php
Anyway who has used them over the years and hope they are around for future generations, consider giving as they are more important than ever with the explosion in RCs and analogues where a slight mishap in dosage can result in death
[+] [-] thisisforyou|9 years ago|reply
Not really, the results were a bit more subtle and technical than that. They just found that there was a (fairly small) negative correlation on left amygdalar BOLD signal in the active group. They did not measure subjective fear, nor did they make any explicit claims about it. Just because blood oxygen levels changed does not mean the participants necessarily experienced less fear or anything different from the placebo group (in terms of fear at least).
The authors also mention toward the end of the paper that this was a fairly small dose, and that larger doses would likely induce more anxiety than placebo:
"Third, we can only provide data about one moderate dose. Higher doses of psychedelics are possibly difficult to use with fMRI, because they are more likely to induce anxiety,45 although the overall effects are still described as positive in the higher doses investigated.2, 45 The observed anxiolytic effect probably also depends on personal and environmental factors and might thus be different in the mentally ill or in uncontrolled settings."
[+] [-] rubatuga|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] empath75|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|9 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] return0|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] samrendall|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] digi_owl|9 years ago|reply
It is what separate anecdote from data.
[+] [-] jarmitage|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hprotagonist|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] thisisforyou|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] itchyjunk|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] thisisforyou|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] anigbrowl|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] FullMtlAlcoholc|9 years ago|reply
From my experience and observations, bad trips can be powerful experiences that have a positive effect, forcing you to face that which you have hidden away. Of course, it can be damaging as well.
[+] [-] researching0|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] WhitneyLand|9 years ago|reply
Let me add some color for you, it's absolutely real. I predict the drug will eventually be validated as one of the most powerful and useful therapeutic substances discovered to date.
>>impaired recognition of fearful faces, while it did not significantly affect recognition of neutral, happy and angry faces
This characterization is a bit misleading. Recognition of faces is not impaired at all, recognition is also not impaired of some of your most terrifying inner thoughts. Instead, you recognize them fine and are simply not bothered because you perceive them in an unbiased, rational context.
>>exhibits some ‘empathogenic’ effects (such as increased openness and trust)
Some? I know, good medical science has to be conservative. However empathy, emotional connection and understanding, can become almost savant like. I won't give an example - too hard to offer an anecdote and not sound hyperbolic or like an exaggerated account. How's this: I believe it to be significantly understated.
>>positive long-term effects outlast acute pharmacological effects
Let that sink in. Who would believe taking an anti-depressant once could change your life years later? They would not believe it, because like every other mental health drug, anti-depressants can easily stop working (to the degree they work at all) as soon as you stop taking them. This is not like that. It's some kind of unusual mechanism that for reasons not yet entirely clear, is just very different from other drugs.
I would ask that no one act on my opinion by using illegal drugs. I'm not worried about liability, or even legality. The problem is simply that self-administering street drugs comes with quite a bit of risk that for some reason, a lot of people don't mind ignoring. Worst case you could be intentionally poisoned as part of a scam and die. You could get the wrong substance, for example fentanyl is unknowingly taken all the time, and again easily die. You might somehow get the real thing, but precise dosing is difficult enough that overdosing LSD is very common. Having the wrong dose will not kill you, but the results can be bad enough many people feel like death would have been an easier option. Some people believe that impurities and imprecise dosing are responsible for a lot of what people describe as "bad trips".
[+] [-] M_Grey|9 years ago|reply
Edit: I should point out that obviously, they could have reached this conclusion because it is that amazing, but a lot of people have ironclad convictions about everything from drugs to religion after all. The research should hopefully offer an answer that can be, frankly, believed.
[+] [-] parshimers|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rbanffy|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] digi_owl|9 years ago|reply
LSD is a key, not a door.
[+] [-] unknown|9 years ago|reply
[deleted]