If you know a little bit about legal procedure dealing with something like this shouldn't be too hard.
You'd file against your local bank based on the address of the branch you go to for an order to show cause hearing where they are tasked to show up and show cause as to why the transfer of money should go forward. You'd state the basic grounds of mistaken identity, propose a temporary restraining order barring any further action until the case is heard, and go to the court for a judge to sign the order and give instructions for service.
Once it gets on everyone's radar as a conflicting court proceeding (rather than a customer service complaint) they'd likely quickly get to the bottom of it.
It sounds really hard but it isn't, most courts in bigger cities at least will have an office where you can make an appointment to get free volunteer legal help.
Yes this will burn a couple slightly frustrating afternoons getting it together but it's eminimently possible to do, and an interesting exercise for the average person who enjoys learning how things work.
> If you know a little bit about legal procedure dealing with something like this shouldn't be too hard.
Well, responses on here vary from "sue the bank, it's their fault," to "contact/sue the LASD, it's their fault" to "contact the plaintiff's lawyers, they'll fix it" to "contact the defendant's lawyers, they'll pay for it or else."
So clearly, this is likely to cost more than a couple afternoons.
One day, a sheriff showed up at my home and confiscated my guns. Turns out some lunatic that I don't even know had filed a domestic abuse restraining order against me and the state I was in grants a temporary order by default. Took 2 months to resolve this and cost me about $6k in legal fees. Took several months to get my guns back.
While that's not the same as "you're not actually the guy named in the lawsuit", it illustrates how disruptive this kind of thing can be.
> You'd file [...] an order to show cause hearing where
> they are tasked to show up and show cause as to why
> the transfer of money should go forward.
The article very plainly describes how he was not notified until after the transfer of money already occurred.
In California, I don't believe you can file against a local branch. You'd need to file against BofA at their central legal location for service, which I believe is in LA. However, I think (though not sure) you can still file the case itself in the county where you reside.
I know this because I recently filed a small claims case that included Chase as a defendant, and this was the process.
The small (<10k) amount of money makes this a bit difficult because that typically falls within the realm of small claims, and they don't move quickly with court dates. My hearing date was about 3 months after filing. Maybe there are special procedures for things that have to move quickly like this?
I know how to handle these dumb fucks. (I had a Mortgage with them, that makes me an expert)
I had a problem with them coughing up an escrow refund check, although there is much more to the story that would have most of you boiling.
I filed complaints with a total of 3 agencies and received my check via FedEx Priority overnight not long after. Suck it, BofA.
* Filed complaint with CFPB
* Filed with Texas State Attorney General's Office (Insert your state here)
* Filed complaint with Office of the Comptroller of Currency (HelpWithMyBank.gov)
Trust me. If you file a very well articulated complaint to each of these entities, they will feel the heat and resolve it.
I hope this information helps you alienchow, and many others.
CFPB was just called out [1, 2] by Rep. Jeb Hensarling as unaccountable and a "rogue agency". The head of CFPB responded in an interview this morning [3].
Mr. Jiang, you'd better get your complaint in now before they're disbanded!
It's amazing how well that stuff works when dealing with big companies. Years ago I had an issue with Dish. Spent hours on the phone getting passed around to different people who would give me their left pinky to avoid resolving the issue. Finally filed a complaint with the BBB and within a week got a phone call that the issue was being resolved (and the person making the call was not happy about it).
The CFPB is pretty awesome. I will try that next time I need to resolve something.
Here's a trick I have used in the past to deal with a large USA financial company...
- call corporate Headquarters
- Ask for the Chairman of the Board's office
- When they ask why, just say you only need to leave a message with their executive assistant
- when you get the EA on the line, say you'd like to complain, and have made a good faith effort to go through normal channels, but now your are pissed that the company has <thing that could get bad press if it got picked up by the media>
- that has gotten my stuff fixed twice, once to get debt a shady debt collector off my back (2009 was a rough year), and another to get an unpaid invoice paid
Basically, when a company screws up by taking your money, they don't want to draw the wrong kind of attention. "<Financial institution> makes mistake it can't (can't, not won't) fix" projects incompetence, which is a direct assault on the reputation of trust, stability, and prestige. No bank could survive if the proverbial fine print included "most of the time, we don't lose your money!"
He should be calling up the plaintiff's lawyers, not BOA. Lawyers don't want to collect only to have to give it back. Find out who they are and call them. Any other attorneys involved as well. Once they have proof the money should not be given out, any ethical attorney would be very wary of handing out money.
It's also likely the money will be sitting in the trust account of an attorney before it actually gets dispersed, so he has more time that way. Contacting the bank for help in the legal system is totally the wrong way to solve this. They've given the money away and can't actually get it back even if they tried. They're a useless avenue at the moment.
This would be my advice as well; talk to the Plaintiff's attorney. I have all my business accounts at B of A. I shopped around, and they have the best online banking services. Part of the problem is arcane banking laws. Since I opened the accounts at B of A in Texas and now live in Seattle. Even though I walk into the B of A office here in Seattle, my accounts are "out of state" and require all sorts of extra paperwork.
What I don't get: Why would he pursue some court order he's not a party to? The only logical counterparty to this dispute is BoA. They gave away your money without proper title. That shouldn't hold up in court? That they gave some money to the LA Sheriff’s Department, that would be BoA to recoup.
Trouble is, this guy is a random citizen who doesn't know much about how the law works, and so it hasn't clicked who the correct plaintiff would be for his case.
He'd probably get told who the right parties to lodge a complaint against, if there was any lawyer willing to talk to him for about 15 minutes, but the last half of the article is basically him being bounced all over California by legal professionals who won't speak to him, because he's out of their bailiwick.
> Why would he pursue some court order he's not a party to? The only logical counterparty to this dispute is BoA.
As someone very ignorant in how to handle legal issues, as the story went on I originally thought he had to go through the court system to get his fees returned. It didn't occur to me, until the very end, that it's something he needs to dispute with BoA.
Obviously the author needs to take BoA to small claims court but it took me a little while to realize that so I can understand.
If I got told I had to travel 6 hours to retrieve my money due to someone else's mistake, it would probably take law enforcement to calm the scene I would cause. I'm wondering how much this poor guy was bounced around because he was too much of a gentleman to express his frustration.
The error was committed by the LASD, their response here is wrong:
A few minutes later, she came back with the bad news. “Why didn’t you call earlier? It’s too late for us to withdraw the request. The money was already sent to the court! You need to go down to the courthouse and ask them to show you the court documents.”
It is not his problem what they did with the money, they took it from him plain and simple. The error was on their part and how they correct it on the other end is their problem.
Back in the day when people use MCI for some of their phone services , I got an adder to my phone bill from ATT (my carrier) for a charge attributed to a John Fox. I called ATT a couple times and pointed out that I'm not John Fox and they tried to tell me to call MCI. MCI used their LEC billing agreement to have ATT collect the fee. At some point I explained that I was not an MCI customer, had no relationship with them and that ATT had actually charged this fee to me, which is incorrect - how they wanted to deal with MCI or John Fox was their problem. They credited my account and I never heard about John Fox again.
EDIT: Actually the comment below by CLPX is better - the bank did this, they took his money and it is THEIR problem not the LASD. My point remains somewhat valid, it's not your problem to chase the money after someone wrongly took it - it's their problem. The bank didn't do a decent job of verification - they went on a partial name match alone apparently (no SSN, no account number, WTF).
Your anecdote about inter-carrier billing is a good one.
It reminds me of a position one of my best friends takes on "identity theft." He asserts it simply doesn't exist.
What bank's call identity theft most of the world calls "Bank Fraud." The banks don't want to eat it - so they lobby congress to pass laws making it your fault if a bad person tricks the bank.
tl;dr: Similar to how banks try to make identity theft your problem when it's really bank fraud.
It's a conundrum. He could tell the branch manager to fix it since it was their mistake, but with the low level of competence displayed by said branch manager it is doubtful he would ever see his money again. Maybe try to elevate it to the district manager in the hopes that they can find their ass with both hands?
Not sure if you have small claims court in America. In Canada for losses under 10000$ process is fairly straightforward. You should file and follow the process. If they don't give money back, go to the court and execute writ of seizure. One guy did this.
Don't mess around with the court, the whole thing is Bank of America's problem, don't let them make it your fault or the courts. They have debited the wrong account, you can prove this; in the UK if this happened and they didn't return me my money I would take them to the small claims court which can be filled in online. Surely California must have this?
I had the same problem with one of the biggest french bank.
I saw an important withdrawal on my account in a city where I wasn't. I called my bank and I explained the situation. They told me I'll get the money back in one day. I asked if I should change my credit card in case it was hacked, they told me calmy it was just an error on their part because another client had the same last name. I just couldn't believe it.
About 20 years ago on a Saturday I was shopping for a new washer and dryer for a new house. I gave the cashier my Visa card (from my credit union) and was subsequently told that I was over my credit limit. (At the time that card had a $20k limit and no balance.) I used a different card and waited until Monday to contact my CU. They told me I had requested a balance transfer, but when I pressed them they realized that it was a different customer with a similar name (who was overdrawn on all accounts). Somehow the CU clerk decided to use my account because it had enough credit available to complete the request.
I closed all of my accounts at that CU shortly thereafter. (It was actually after a second fiasco where they failed to pay my property tax, but still withdrew the money from my account.)
Ultimately, that's what happens when it's a human that gets the final sign off. You can put all the control and checks in place you need, either the human validates the case and events like this happens, or the computer has final authority and people complain about lacking human touch and comprehension and "they know me for decades but I can't get 20 euros out without several proof of identity".
I'm not sure which way I would consider best. I guess as long as banks are stepping up to their errors and fixing them immediately as in your case, I prefer that.
Wells Fargo did this to me many years ago from a business account. The State of California issued a seizer for unpaid taxes for another business. In the end I think Wells Fargo told us that our tax ID numbers were similar. We did end up getting the money back from the state of California after about 3 years. We of course never got back the penalties Wells Fargo charged or interest.
Wells Fargo did similar to me too. However, they then deleted all of my account history (I was paperless) and demanded I call their corporate office, refusing to do anything in writing.
Glad you were able to resolve things, I wasn't able to.
This entire fiasco could have been avoided if people were identified correctly. Here's another recent article where simply using "firstname lastname DOB" as a primary key resulted in a collision: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/apr/03/identity-the...
I wrote the blog post. It turns out writing a blog post works better than talking to the bank beyond simple catharsis. Just got a call from someone from Bank of America's social media team who credited the money back to my account. Thanks for all the suggestions here!
I will never use Bank of America again, for similar reason.
On two separate occasions they "lost" transfers to the IRS (totaling $40k) that I only discovered when the IRS came after me for failure to pay taxes. I had full receipts from BofA for the transfers that apparently never happened. At least as disconcerting, the reaction of BofA to the situation both times suggested that sending money to /dev/null was a routine occurrence in their organization.
BofA ranks first by the total number of cases which is to be expected given their footprint. What's notable is that BofA has actually improved over time.
Consider taking LASD, BofA and the LAPD to small claims court in a single case in Northern California.
All three of them acted together to take the $3.4k, and I suspect there would be a settlement rather than an actual day in court.
It might be too late, but maybe call the BofA fraud department and tell them it was an unauthorized charge. "Unauthorized charge" is like the root password for banks.
It might also be possible to call the judge that handled the case and ask for help.
Based on jury duty selection it is more or less the judge's job to babysit lawyers of varying degrees of competence. The judge's office should at least be able to get you on the line with the right person.
I don't get how BoA would pay when the SSN didn't match.
But maybe the LASD didn't cite the SSN, but just the bank account that they had erroneously identified. But still, it's mind-boggling that they'd be so sloppy.
It is not shocking at all that the bank had sloppy accounting. You don't get very many highly motivated professionals to sit around an office and help people fill out checking account applications all day. It's a retail gig with a fairly low salary, not much different than running a register at the Gap. If you are doing anything even slightly out of the ordinary you will run into headaches more often than not.
If everyone on this thread tweeted his story, he'll get his money back. In the age of social media, the only effective tool we have against corporations is public shaming.
I doubt that would have helped here, since the bank itself did the matching and picked the wrong account.
EU (IBAN to be exact) bank accounts do have a check digit, so typos tend to be caught and result in a transfer being blocked. More relevantly Dutch banks are going to add name checking in 2017 as an extra protection as well. The exact introduction date will vary per bank.
You mean the IBAN? We've used it to send money back and forth between people and companies all the time. For the most part it works. And if there is a dispute or error it can be reversed.
BOA is probably the worst institutions I've ever dealt with and I never even opened an account with them.
I did get to close one I had with them though and that was a very good day for me because I was among the very 1st of many here who did the same and I got to watch what happened to them here from start to end.
They came to Branson Missouri and bought out a well loved local bank where I had my business account. I closed it as soon as I found out. As the new management came and started enforcing BOA policy people learned fast that I and a few others familiar with them weren't bullshitting about them.
Soon, the long time employees of the old bank started leaving because they weren't willing to piss their friends and neighbors for BOA and, of course, they told everyone why they left. Most went to work for one of the several other local banks here, and all their close friends and family moved their money with them.
When the last of those employees were gone everyone here started moving their accounts over to one of the still locally owned banks and in just a few years BOA didn't have hardly anyone left here to screw so they closed their doors and left town.
I will always admire my neighbors here for that. I knew people who let that bank abuse them for decades out in Los Angeles and I could never, not for the life of me, understand why.
[+] [-] CPLX|9 years ago|reply
You'd file against your local bank based on the address of the branch you go to for an order to show cause hearing where they are tasked to show up and show cause as to why the transfer of money should go forward. You'd state the basic grounds of mistaken identity, propose a temporary restraining order barring any further action until the case is heard, and go to the court for a judge to sign the order and give instructions for service.
Once it gets on everyone's radar as a conflicting court proceeding (rather than a customer service complaint) they'd likely quickly get to the bottom of it.
It sounds really hard but it isn't, most courts in bigger cities at least will have an office where you can make an appointment to get free volunteer legal help.
Yes this will burn a couple slightly frustrating afternoons getting it together but it's eminimently possible to do, and an interesting exercise for the average person who enjoys learning how things work.
[+] [-] scrummytim|9 years ago|reply
Well, responses on here vary from "sue the bank, it's their fault," to "contact/sue the LASD, it's their fault" to "contact the plaintiff's lawyers, they'll fix it" to "contact the defendant's lawyers, they'll pay for it or else."
So clearly, this is likely to cost more than a couple afternoons.
One day, a sheriff showed up at my home and confiscated my guns. Turns out some lunatic that I don't even know had filed a domestic abuse restraining order against me and the state I was in grants a temporary order by default. Took 2 months to resolve this and cost me about $6k in legal fees. Took several months to get my guns back.
While that's not the same as "you're not actually the guy named in the lawsuit", it illustrates how disruptive this kind of thing can be.
[+] [-] wilsynet|9 years ago|reply
The article very plainly describes how he was not notified until after the transfer of money already occurred.
[+] [-] bgentry|9 years ago|reply
I know this because I recently filed a small claims case that included Chase as a defendant, and this was the process.
The small (<10k) amount of money makes this a bit difficult because that typically falls within the realm of small claims, and they don't move quickly with court dates. My hearing date was about 3 months after filing. Maybe there are special procedures for things that have to move quickly like this?
[+] [-] instaheat|9 years ago|reply
I had a problem with them coughing up an escrow refund check, although there is much more to the story that would have most of you boiling.
I filed complaints with a total of 3 agencies and received my check via FedEx Priority overnight not long after. Suck it, BofA.
* Filed complaint with CFPB * Filed with Texas State Attorney General's Office (Insert your state here) * Filed complaint with Office of the Comptroller of Currency (HelpWithMyBank.gov)
Trust me. If you file a very well articulated complaint to each of these entities, they will feel the heat and resolve it.
I hope this information helps you alienchow, and many others.
[+] [-] wyldfire|9 years ago|reply
Mr. Jiang, you'd better get your complaint in now before they're disbanded!
[1] http://www.npr.org/2017/04/05/522756745/head-of-consumer-fin...
[2] http://www.npr.org/2017/02/24/516983751/rep-jeb-hensarling-c...
[3] http://www.npr.org/2017/04/06/522826544/consumer-financial-p...
[+] [-] tmaly|9 years ago|reply
Also, switching to a smaller regional bank if you have the possibility is a good choice.
Remember Bank of America is the bank that took all the farms from the farmers during the Great Depression.
[+] [-] brightball|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] amorphid|9 years ago|reply
Here's a trick I have used in the past to deal with a large USA financial company...
- call corporate Headquarters
- Ask for the Chairman of the Board's office
- When they ask why, just say you only need to leave a message with their executive assistant
- when you get the EA on the line, say you'd like to complain, and have made a good faith effort to go through normal channels, but now your are pissed that the company has <thing that could get bad press if it got picked up by the media>
- that has gotten my stuff fixed twice, once to get debt a shady debt collector off my back (2009 was a rough year), and another to get an unpaid invoice paid
Basically, when a company screws up by taking your money, they don't want to draw the wrong kind of attention. "<Financial institution> makes mistake it can't (can't, not won't) fix" projects incompetence, which is a direct assault on the reputation of trust, stability, and prestige. No bank could survive if the proverbial fine print included "most of the time, we don't lose your money!"
[+] [-] nikanj|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tstegart|9 years ago|reply
It's also likely the money will be sitting in the trust account of an attorney before it actually gets dispersed, so he has more time that way. Contacting the bank for help in the legal system is totally the wrong way to solve this. They've given the money away and can't actually get it back even if they tried. They're a useless avenue at the moment.
[+] [-] joshuaheard|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wheelerwj|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pbreit|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wjnc|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] AimHere|9 years ago|reply
He'd probably get told who the right parties to lodge a complaint against, if there was any lawyer willing to talk to him for about 15 minutes, but the last half of the article is basically him being bounced all over California by legal professionals who won't speak to him, because he's out of their bailiwick.
It's the XY problem in legal form...
[+] [-] BinaryIdiot|9 years ago|reply
As someone very ignorant in how to handle legal issues, as the story went on I originally thought he had to go through the court system to get his fees returned. It didn't occur to me, until the very end, that it's something he needs to dispute with BoA.
Obviously the author needs to take BoA to small claims court but it took me a little while to realize that so I can understand.
[+] [-] Pigo|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|9 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] phkahler|9 years ago|reply
A few minutes later, she came back with the bad news. “Why didn’t you call earlier? It’s too late for us to withdraw the request. The money was already sent to the court! You need to go down to the courthouse and ask them to show you the court documents.”
It is not his problem what they did with the money, they took it from him plain and simple. The error was on their part and how they correct it on the other end is their problem.
Back in the day when people use MCI for some of their phone services , I got an adder to my phone bill from ATT (my carrier) for a charge attributed to a John Fox. I called ATT a couple times and pointed out that I'm not John Fox and they tried to tell me to call MCI. MCI used their LEC billing agreement to have ATT collect the fee. At some point I explained that I was not an MCI customer, had no relationship with them and that ATT had actually charged this fee to me, which is incorrect - how they wanted to deal with MCI or John Fox was their problem. They credited my account and I never heard about John Fox again.
EDIT: Actually the comment below by CLPX is better - the bank did this, they took his money and it is THEIR problem not the LASD. My point remains somewhat valid, it's not your problem to chase the money after someone wrongly took it - it's their problem. The bank didn't do a decent job of verification - they went on a partial name match alone apparently (no SSN, no account number, WTF).
[+] [-] late2part|9 years ago|reply
It reminds me of a position one of my best friends takes on "identity theft." He asserts it simply doesn't exist.
What bank's call identity theft most of the world calls "Bank Fraud." The banks don't want to eat it - so they lobby congress to pass laws making it your fault if a bad person tricks the bank.
tl;dr: Similar to how banks try to make identity theft your problem when it's really bank fraud.
[+] [-] jandrese|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] perlpimp|9 years ago|reply
http://business.time.com/2011/06/06/homeowner-forecloses-on-...
[+] [-] andy_ppp|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] louhike|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] anonymousiam|9 years ago|reply
I closed all of my accounts at that CU shortly thereafter. (It was actually after a second fiasco where they failed to pay my property tax, but still withdrew the money from my account.)
Somehow cash under the mattress seems safer...
[+] [-] nolok|9 years ago|reply
I'm not sure which way I would consider best. I guess as long as banks are stepping up to their errors and fixing them immediately as in your case, I prefer that.
[+] [-] brianwawok|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nathantotten|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jumpkickhit|9 years ago|reply
Glad you were able to resolve things, I wasn't able to.
[+] [-] pmarreck|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] darkmirage|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jandrewrogers|9 years ago|reply
On two separate occasions they "lost" transfers to the IRS (totaling $40k) that I only discovered when the IRS came after me for failure to pay taxes. I had full receipts from BofA for the transfers that apparently never happened. At least as disconcerting, the reaction of BofA to the situation both times suggested that sending money to /dev/null was a routine occurrence in their organization.
[+] [-] threepipeproblm|9 years ago|reply
They had to pay $17 billion because of the scale to which they institutionalized mortgage fraud http://nypost.com/2014/08/21/bank-of-america-to-pay-record-1...
The other big banks aren't too different... I went with a small, local bank years ago and haven't looked back.
Find a Local Bank http://banklocal.info/
[+] [-] passivepinetree|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Vivtek|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rodionos|9 years ago|reply
https://catalog.data.gov/dataset/consumer-complaint-database...
BofA ranks first by the total number of cases which is to be expected given their footprint. What's notable is that BofA has actually improved over time.
https://github.com/axibase/atsd-use-cases/blob/master/Consum...
[+] [-] hedora|9 years ago|reply
All three of them acted together to take the $3.4k, and I suspect there would be a settlement rather than an actual day in court.
It might be too late, but maybe call the BofA fraud department and tell them it was an unauthorized charge. "Unauthorized charge" is like the root password for banks.
[+] [-] hedora|9 years ago|reply
Based on jury duty selection it is more or less the judge's job to babysit lawyers of varying degrees of competence. The judge's office should at least be able to get you on the line with the right person.
[+] [-] uptown|9 years ago|reply
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/apr/03/identity-the...
[+] [-] Eric_WVGG|9 years ago|reply
Left me thinking that people who give their children names like River Phoenix or Seven Costanza might be on to something.
[+] [-] mirimir|9 years ago|reply
But maybe the LASD didn't cite the SSN, but just the bank account that they had erroneously identified. But still, it's mind-boggling that they'd be so sloppy.
[+] [-] jandrese|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cthulhuology|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] the-dude|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wichert|9 years ago|reply
EU (IBAN to be exact) bank accounts do have a check digit, so typos tend to be caught and result in a transfer being blocked. More relevantly Dutch banks are going to add name checking in 2017 as an extra protection as well. The exact introduction date will vary per bank.
[+] [-] yardie|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] PeterisP|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] oblib|9 years ago|reply
I did get to close one I had with them though and that was a very good day for me because I was among the very 1st of many here who did the same and I got to watch what happened to them here from start to end.
They came to Branson Missouri and bought out a well loved local bank where I had my business account. I closed it as soon as I found out. As the new management came and started enforcing BOA policy people learned fast that I and a few others familiar with them weren't bullshitting about them.
Soon, the long time employees of the old bank started leaving because they weren't willing to piss their friends and neighbors for BOA and, of course, they told everyone why they left. Most went to work for one of the several other local banks here, and all their close friends and family moved their money with them.
When the last of those employees were gone everyone here started moving their accounts over to one of the still locally owned banks and in just a few years BOA didn't have hardly anyone left here to screw so they closed their doors and left town.
I will always admire my neighbors here for that. I knew people who let that bank abuse them for decades out in Los Angeles and I could never, not for the life of me, understand why.