[rando832]

> If a team of hundred of engineers struggle with their codebase internally, Joe Farmer isn't going to have a fucking clue how to repair their software correctly.

> But trust me on this, locking this down is a very good idea.

Joe Farmer may not know, but Joe farmer has "the internet", and ability to pay an independent software engineer. And people would absolutely find and fix bugs that john deer is missing.

Honestly, your argument sounds so ridiculous, it sounds like saying "it's to protect the children from terrorism."

[RowanH]

So semi related, been in software for 20 years and contemplated getting a Motec w e-throttle for my (road legal) race car "no f-king way" is my thought process, I've got a race engine management system but no way I'm having anything other than a cable between me and the throttle body. I love software, I love engineering, I love what an e-throttle can do for traction control. But there will always be bugs with software ...I'd trust a road car with massive engineering teams, I struggle with the thought of a smaller team and how it could possibly go wrong. I personally get where he's coming from ... I can't imagine single engineers being able to test and have foresight on the umpteen permutations of "what-if"

[kodfodrasz]

I have worked in automotive and the testing of a software release took about 1 month for a ~150 member team. Yes, documentation because legal requirements was as much as 10% of the human labor, but the tests ran for a month in simulated environment.

This was not a particularly large software, about .5MLOC total with 3rd party RTOS as well (not in our test scope).

The tests did find unexpected bugs, as the dynamic behaviour of the system was much harder to reason about than about the single components, and sometimes pretty weird system effect kicked in.

I'd also not trust this to small teams, this is simply way more complicated than one presumes prior to experiencing it personally.

[dotancohen]

> I can't imagine single engineers being able to test and have foresight on the umpteen permutations of "what-if"

Maybe the answer to this is to have the software unit tests open source as well, and document the hardware integration tests (including spectacular failures) on Youtube.

[rando832]

Also, if it's built on open source as he says, that likely means linux, and tons of code that John Deer is not reviewing, so... trust you that john deer needs to protect farmers from letting people fix the code THEY WROTE. lol.

[justaman]

I'm out here in the soybean/corn/dairy fields of Wisconsin. I'm not originally from here but i'll tell ya, some of these farmers are brilliant! These rednecks have their trucks and their tools and are frequently more ingenuitive and resourceful than anyone anywhere else in the world. Most of these folks would outfit their tractor with bucket seats, two cup holders, falcon wing car doors, and a keggerator if it didnt come standard.

If Joe Farmer doesnt know, he will figure it out.

[lobotryas]

What happens if this independent fix results in a death? Do you really think JD will escape liability?

[db48x]

This is not exactly uncertain ground. Car manufacturers don't have liability when their customers modify their cars. Whoever made my clothes dryer doesn't have liability for any unsafe condition I may or may not have created when I removed that stupid annoying buzzer.

[RugnirViking]

Yes, for exactly the same reason that if I overclock my intel CPU then if it starts a fire intel won't be blamed because they expressly put that if I overclock or modify the CPU settings from the factory default they wont be liable into the terms of service and unlike many software SLAs it is accepted by courts around the world

[qq66]

Of course they will. If a hit man cuts your brake lines, Ford will not be liable.

[melq]

I absolutely think JD would escape liability. Consider the more egregious cases of any number of high-profile companies who have had significant customer data breaches in recent memory. Regardless of how negligent they may have been (lets say they stored user passwords in plain text), have you ever heard of a company being held responsible for even the most egregious/reckless behavior?

[jdietrich]

Independent mechanics have been repairing machinery for as long as machinery has existed. This is not an exotic legal problem.

[CamperBob2]

Life is full of risks. This is, or may be, one of them. Allowing a handful of opaque corporations to monopolize the tools of food production and dictate their after-sale use is another risk.

[dan00]

Sorry, but you sound like someone who never worked with complex and safety critical software.

[rimliu]

May I hope that this "independent software engineer" will also test everything after his changes?