Water has an exceptionally high heat capacity, I get it. But using drinking water to cool our servers (in the interest of seeing the very best ads) seems like an exceptionally short-sighted choice for us to make.
If there is a less worthwhile thing for us to be doing with potable water, I can't think of it.
Economics beats morality. Making it about morality is counter-productive.
Water is a resource with a price, just like land or gasoline.
If Google had a cheaper way to cool their servers, they would.
If we have plenty of cheap water then we should use it to cool the server or for watering lawns or whatever.
If the price of water is too low, then we should raise the price of water so that it's cheaper for Google to use a different way of cooling.
If you make it about Google and cooling servers (and not about the price of water) then you might win a battle but you'll still lose the war because Google is only one of many entities that will eventually deplete water resources if they are not priced properly.
> using drinking water to cool our servers seems like an exceptionally short-sighted choice for us to make.
In that case "us" is Google, in that server farm specifically. The article mentions there exists better alternatives :
> The National Security Agency cools its Fort Meade, Maryland data center with treated wastewater, touted as an environmental boon and cost savings compared to tap water or aquifer pumping.
And drawing water from an aquifer, when we don't even know how fast it's being replenished, seems like a particularly bad idea -- surprisingly so from a company whose headquarters is in California.
There isn't any lack of drinking water in the US other than maybe parts of Nevada. It's mostly used for commercial or agricultural purposes. When there is a shortage the question should be which the least important commercial or agricultural use.
Just using market based pricing would solve it. But western states have a shitty water rights policy that doesn't allow it. Someone growing water intensive crops in an arid region get priority over junior users. It's a bad system.
If there is a less worthwhile thing for us to be doing with potable water, I can't think of it.
China recently is cracking down on golf courses in order to preserve water. I imagine the game of golf is not actually worth the cultural heritage and entertainment it provides if you want to think about the water it uses. At least the Chinese government has concluded this and it's facing a severe potable water shortage issue in the future.
As well... water balloons and water guns? Baths as opposed to showers? The list goes on. Google's ads provide a service the general public finds useful.
It is not just South Carolina. My home state of Michigan probably has more fresh water than just about any other state but it still has become a political issue and not just in Flint.
Giant Nestle is pumping tens of millions of gallons in a rural Northern Michigan county in exchange for a $200 yearly permit. Even though the promised jobs never materialized they want to pump even more water threatening the aquifer. The community and the state say no but Nestle is not backing down.
The total ground water withdrawal in Michigan [mainly for agricultural use] is 98,000 Million gallons [1]. Why is Nestle extracting 100 Million a problem?
Are there any "municipal heating" systems in the U.S.?
It's popular in NL, the idea is basically hot (~70 degrees celcius) water being pumped from industrial areas (where it was used for cooling), to residential areas for cheap heating.
Why would anyone need to use potable water as a coolant, and why is potable water completely ruined and transformed into grey water by its use as a coolant?
Google is continually touted as the industry leader in efficient DC design, yet they do wasteful operations like this. I just don't get it.
On the other hand, Yahoo is constantly shat on (sometimes validly), yet they solved this years ago. Their Lockport, NY data center does not need air conditioning because of its design and the cool local weather. It uses 50 percent less electricity and 99 percent less water compared with traditional data centers.
We are industry-leading efficient, the water is used for evaporative cooling, very efficient. Other sites use water from an industrial canal or cold sea water.
Especially when the entity requesting the valuable resource (water they don't yet have permission to use), is the one prompting for the NDA.
Sorry, private corporation. Take your NDA elsewhere, and go swat at your lowly job applicants with it, as they grovel for permission to waste their youth away in your flourescent dungeons and air conditioned nightmares.
"The price of tap water has risen faster than gold or real estate . . ." What an odd pair of benchmarks. We don't expect the prices of either of those items to rise particularly fast. What was the actual rate of increase in the price of tap water? According to the Case-Schiller index, national housing prices have roughly doubled in the last twenty years (I don't know if the index accounts for inflation). That doesn't seem like an extraordinary rate of increase for the price of tap water.
Prima facie we don't expect them to rise fast, but they are probably the two best-known things which have risen reasonably fast (at least in the popular consciousness) in the past twenty-odd years.
"Trade secrets, which are defined as unpatented, secret, commercially valuable plans, appliances, formulas, or processes, which are used for the making, preparing, compounding, treating, or processing of articles or materials which are trade commodities obtained from a person and which are generally recognized as confidential and work products, in whole or in part collected or produced for sale or resale, and paid subscriber information. Trade secrets also include, for those public bodies who market services or products in competition with others, feasibility, planning, and marketing studies, marine terminal service and nontariff agreements, and evaluations and other materials which contain references to potential customers, competitive information, or evaluation."
Pardon my naivety but I am curious why in use cases like this the same water can't be reused? My car uses the same coolant over and over. While that is an apples to oranges comparison couldn't the water be allowed to naturally cool after use in a covered retention pond and then be recycled into the cooling system? Is the water from the aquifer particularly cold to begin with?
They dump it because it's not cool anymore and nobody is wanting to buy hot water from them at a cost that makes it worth their while.
If they had the capability to cool the water fast enough then they'd use a closed loop cooling system and wouldn't need to pump fresh, cool groundwater.
Yes, I don't get it either. The article implies that they reuse it for a while, and then dump. But I can imagine how filter and ion-exchange systems need water for back-flushing and other maintenance. So maybe there's some hard-to-avoid loss.
[+] [-] ryandvm|9 years ago|reply
If there is a less worthwhile thing for us to be doing with potable water, I can't think of it.
[+] [-] kjksf|9 years ago|reply
Water is a resource with a price, just like land or gasoline.
If Google had a cheaper way to cool their servers, they would.
If we have plenty of cheap water then we should use it to cool the server or for watering lawns or whatever.
If the price of water is too low, then we should raise the price of water so that it's cheaper for Google to use a different way of cooling.
If you make it about Google and cooling servers (and not about the price of water) then you might win a battle but you'll still lose the war because Google is only one of many entities that will eventually deplete water resources if they are not priced properly.
[+] [-] vmarsy|9 years ago|reply
In that case "us" is Google, in that server farm specifically. The article mentions there exists better alternatives :
> The National Security Agency cools its Fort Meade, Maryland data center with treated wastewater, touted as an environmental boon and cost savings compared to tap water or aquifer pumping.
[+] [-] ScottBurson|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rhino369|9 years ago|reply
Just using market based pricing would solve it. But western states have a shitty water rights policy that doesn't allow it. Someone growing water intensive crops in an arid region get priority over junior users. It's a bad system.
[+] [-] mjfl|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] PakG1|9 years ago|reply
China recently is cracking down on golf courses in order to preserve water. I imagine the game of golf is not actually worth the cultural heritage and entertainment it provides if you want to think about the water it uses. At least the Chinese government has concluded this and it's facing a severe potable water shortage issue in the future.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/china-golf-water-land-shortages...
As well... water balloons and water guns? Baths as opposed to showers? The list goes on. Google's ads provide a service the general public finds useful.
[+] [-] jasonkostempski|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rmason|9 years ago|reply
Giant Nestle is pumping tens of millions of gallons in a rural Northern Michigan county in exchange for a $200 yearly permit. Even though the promised jobs never materialized they want to pump even more water threatening the aquifer. The community and the state say no but Nestle is not backing down.
http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2017/04/19/ne...
[+] [-] labster|9 years ago|reply
http://www.lamag.com/citythinkblog/nestle-gets-away-pumping-...
[+] [-] acover|9 years ago|reply
[1] -http://www.michigan.gov/documents/mdard/2015_MAEAP_Water_Use...
[+] [-] cryptarch|9 years ago|reply
It's popular in NL, the idea is basically hot (~70 degrees celcius) water being pumped from industrial areas (where it was used for cooling), to residential areas for cheap heating.
[+] [-] droidist2|9 years ago|reply
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_steam_system
[+] [-] abrowne|9 years ago|reply
1: http://www.districtenergy.com/
[+] [-] aslkdjaslkdj|9 years ago|reply
http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2014/09/17/amazo...
[+] [-] hammock|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|9 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] paraboluh|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] homero|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jsjohnst|9 years ago|reply
On the other hand, Yahoo is constantly shat on (sometimes validly), yet they solved this years ago. Their Lockport, NY data center does not need air conditioning because of its design and the cool local weather. It uses 50 percent less electricity and 99 percent less water compared with traditional data centers.
[+] [-] jankey|9 years ago|reply
Look here: https://www.google.com/about/datacenters/efficiency/internal... . PUE globally is 1.06, compared to Yahoo/Cap Gemini Lockports 1.08.
(Disclaimer: I work in (another) Google datacentre.)
[+] [-] phdp|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] anticedent|9 years ago|reply
Sorry, private corporation. Take your NDA elsewhere, and go swat at your lowly job applicants with it, as they grovel for permission to waste their youth away in your flourescent dungeons and air conditioned nightmares.
[+] [-] pjc50|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] trhway|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|9 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] obstinate|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wyattpeak|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] shawn-butler|9 years ago|reply
What utter nonsense. Someone in SC should file a FOIA request on principle.
http://www.scstatehouse.gov/code/t30c004.php
[+] [-] ericcumbee|9 years ago|reply
"Trade secrets, which are defined as unpatented, secret, commercially valuable plans, appliances, formulas, or processes, which are used for the making, preparing, compounding, treating, or processing of articles or materials which are trade commodities obtained from a person and which are generally recognized as confidential and work products, in whole or in part collected or produced for sale or resale, and paid subscriber information. Trade secrets also include, for those public bodies who market services or products in competition with others, feasibility, planning, and marketing studies, marine terminal service and nontariff agreements, and evaluations and other materials which contain references to potential customers, competitive information, or evaluation."
[+] [-] macinjosh|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tinus_hn|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] canadian_voter|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] aaron695|9 years ago|reply
But I still enjoyed the book.
[+] [-] Brandonknight|9 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] Brandonknight|9 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] revelation|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ryandvm|9 years ago|reply
If they had the capability to cool the water fast enough then they'd use a closed loop cooling system and wouldn't need to pump fresh, cool groundwater.
[+] [-] dogma1138|9 years ago|reply
Basically they pump in cold water and pump hot water back out.
Cooling the water is expensive and ineffective on large scales.
Beyond that you have evaporative cooling which is used for large scale HVAC systems in this case the water simply evaporates away into the atmosphere.
[+] [-] mirimir|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jankey|9 years ago|reply
Check https://www.google.com/about/datacenters/inside/locations/be... and https://www.google.com/about/datacenters/efficiency/internal... .
(Disclaimer: I work in (another) Google datacentre)
[+] [-] wollstonecraft|9 years ago|reply