The new culture at Uber is off to a running start. At least he apologized but seriously, this kind of thing at a meeting "aimed at addressing the harassment of women and other unprofessional conduct within the company"? Totally tone deaf.
Yeah, though hopefully it was a public teaching moment as to the kinds of "microaggressions" that women face every day. Even ones accomplished enough to be on the board of a multi-billion dollar company.
The "joke" occurred shortly after Arianna made a "white men" "joke". I doubt he would have made his comment if she hadn't first made a similar comment that prompted that sort of kneejerk retort among two colleagues on familiar terms who are both at least two or more generations removed from the average tech worker. Arianna is 66 and Bonderman is 74.
I'd be skeptical of calling it a "new culture." When you make apologies and changes based on external pressure instead of true understanding, the problems won't actually go away.
It seems to me like the primary reason this turned into a big deal is because of context, not the remark per se. Not only was it at a large meeting where they were supposedly going to improve on the issue of how women are treated there, but it interrupted the only female board member. So, that is why this has turned into drama. It speaks volumes wrt the level of lack of respect for women there and just how deep it runs.
It just makes it an easier target that the remark was about women. But I am guessing this would have become news even if he had said something else because the point is "We are gathered here today to talk about how we are going to up our game and treat women with genuine respect...let me show you exactly how much respect I have for women by interrupting the only female board member to kind of mock her and the entire agenda we are discussing."
Since this has come up in the thread, I'll put this out there. While this would be an inappropriate comment regardless of whether it's true, it's also based on a unsupported and probably false generalization: http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=4488.
The strange thing is that the same comment has been used in support of gender equality. In Iceland, where every board must have at least 40% representation for each gender, they interviewed some female CEOs, who said something like, "Men are selfish! That's how we got the financial crises. Women will look out for the good of the group. It's in our DNA."
support: "In the collaborative setting, 37 female and 42 male master’s students worked to complete a graded assignment in 12 hours. The researchers found that women tended to interact more with each other, especially in long conversations."
Wow, what a damn idiot. I mean seriously. I just can't think of any way to paint this as ok! I've already uninstalled Uber and tell my friends to avoid it like the plague but this just takes the cake. They really think people are going to take their "investigation" seriously when they act like this?
To them it's normal. If you haven't seen any different then it can be very hard to get rid of your instantaneous embarrassing responses.
I worked for a short period at a large US bank branch office in the Netherlands. The stuff that got said there about the women working there when they were out of earshot (and sometimes within) does not bear repeating. It's only in the last decade or so that this is (slowly) improving but workplace harassment is on the order of the day and I won't hold my breath until it is all behind us.
The problem with this comment is that it's uncivil, baselessly inflammatory, and launches the discussion right into generic flamewar territory—territory that Hacker News needs to spend exactly zero time in. Please don't post like this again.
Nearly every study shows that men talk as much as women, if not more than women. However, men see their talk as "important networking and collaboration" and women's talk as "unimportant trivia and gossip"
You just don't get it. Who cares if its true! Try, for a moment, to put yourself in the shoes of someone of the opposite gender (I assume you're a man) and imagine how that would make you feel about joining a company board after all that's happened with Uber so far on the sexism and gender discrimination front. If you did, you'd never have written this comment...but you seem to have an empathy issue.
"It is statistically true that women speak more than men" [1], therefore it is wholly appropriate for this guy to crack this comment as a joke, interrupting a woman talking about the benefits of more women on the board, at an event specifically about sexual harassment.
Is that your argument?
[1] Is bullshit, by the way. Studies vary widely, and in some studies indicate that it depends on context to a degree that the conclusion that "women talk more" is basically meaningless.
To anyone who did not bother to read the article, the comment was something along the lines of "adding more women to the board will ensure more talking."
The remark wasn't directed at an individual, wasn't harassing, wasn't despairing, wasn't sexual, wasn't crude, and definitely wasn't in any way malicious. I realize it's trendy to get offended now-a-days (one word? three?), but come on. Seriously? This is what we've been reduced to getting worked up over?
To be honest, the context of the meeting makes this extremely tame joke kind of funny. I have zero problems with this and am actually a little salty I spent the time to type this reply about a non-story.
"Women talk so much, am I right?" is a sexist statement, and it's particularly egregious when interrupting a fellow (edit: female) board member at an event announcing the new, non-sexist culture of the company.
>[As a man], I have zero problems with this and am actually a little salty I spent the time to type this reply about a non-story.
Added additional context to your statement.
Why is the question you are asking is "Why are we getting upset over this?" instead of "Why do people say unnecessarily sexist jokes that aren't actually funny?"?
This was a mistake, but it is only outrageous in the context of the company's past misbehavior. It does make it clear just how difficult it will be to move past their present issues, though.
It is hard to judge if this was inappropriate without knowing the context. It can be seen as a positive thing to have more communication or "talking" if the board has more female members. It also depends on the guy's relationship with people present. It can be considered a joke if they were on friendly terms. I think journalism can be put to better use than reporting a non-story like this.
Edit. After knowing this was in all hands meeting I think it is inappropriate.
[+] [-] jacquesm|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] exelius|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] throwaway74953|8 years ago|reply
https://youtu.be/b4q-WwXgYHU
That said, the comment was still inappropriate.
[+] [-] gdulli|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Mz|8 years ago|reply
It just makes it an easier target that the remark was about women. But I am guessing this would have become news even if he had said something else because the point is "We are gathered here today to talk about how we are going to up our game and treat women with genuine respect...let me show you exactly how much respect I have for women by interrupting the only female board member to kind of mock her and the entire agenda we are discussing."
That is my read on it.
[+] [-] hyperpape|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] safek|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gertef|8 years ago|reply
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/features/do-women-talk-mor...
[+] [-] thebiglebrewski|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] joering2|8 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] DrJokepu|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jacquesm|8 years ago|reply
I worked for a short period at a large US bank branch office in the Netherlands. The stuff that got said there about the women working there when they were out of earshot (and sometimes within) does not bear repeating. It's only in the last decade or so that this is (slowly) improving but workplace harassment is on the order of the day and I won't hold my breath until it is all behind us.
[+] [-] unknown|8 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] unknown|8 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] cududa|8 years ago|reply
Ariana Huffington lays out course corrections
David Bonderman: "Yah but fuckn' women, amirite?"
[+] [-] ceejayoz|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rdxm|8 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] safek|8 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] sctb|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] valbaca|8 years ago|reply
Nearly every study shows that men talk as much as women, if not more than women. However, men see their talk as "important networking and collaboration" and women's talk as "unimportant trivia and gossip"
[+] [-] thebiglebrewski|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tunesmith|8 years ago|reply
"It is statistically true that women speak more than men" [1], therefore it is wholly appropriate for this guy to crack this comment as a joke, interrupting a woman talking about the benefits of more women on the board, at an event specifically about sexual harassment.
Is that your argument?
[1] Is bullshit, by the way. Studies vary widely, and in some studies indicate that it depends on context to a degree that the conclusion that "women talk more" is basically meaningless.
[+] [-] unknown|8 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] simen|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] CameronBanga|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] FerrisBowler|8 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] skizm|8 years ago|reply
The remark wasn't directed at an individual, wasn't harassing, wasn't despairing, wasn't sexual, wasn't crude, and definitely wasn't in any way malicious. I realize it's trendy to get offended now-a-days (one word? three?), but come on. Seriously? This is what we've been reduced to getting worked up over?
To be honest, the context of the meeting makes this extremely tame joke kind of funny. I have zero problems with this and am actually a little salty I spent the time to type this reply about a non-story.
[+] [-] ceejayoz|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lotso|8 years ago|reply
Added additional context to your statement.
Why is the question you are asking is "Why are we getting upset over this?" instead of "Why do people say unnecessarily sexist jokes that aren't actually funny?"?
[+] [-] _ea1k|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] MBCook|8 years ago|reply
It's just ESPECIALLY glaring during the meeting about sexual harassment.
[+] [-] furioussloth|8 years ago|reply
Edit. After knowing this was in all hands meeting I think it is inappropriate.
[+] [-] vorotato|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ceejayoz|8 years ago|reply
It was a company-wide meeting. Wikipedia says they have 12,000 employees, so I doubt he's on friendly terms with all of them.