I live and work in France and I am well versed in this type of Visa. It's a very nice arrangement, but it's still France. It's still dealing with the same administrative burdens for everything else. You don't get treated special, you just have a special deal. I've said before that if France wants to attract foreign talent what they need to do is assign someone in the French administration to help workers get established. That is the hard part about coming to work in France. If you've dealt with the DMV in the US, imagine that for everything. You can't just walk into a bank and open an account. You can make an appointment for next week...which is your first consultation. You'll need to bring a long of documentation for your second appointment the week after. You won't get your bank card for awhile, and by the way you'll have to activate it before you can use it. That might take a week. You'll need to go to Paris for a medical check that you can do your job. All French employees must do this. And you have to do it every two years. Pee in a cup. Undress over there. You'll need to go to the prefecture to get your residence permit. It took me 5 months to get my initial appointment and a total of 9 months to get my card, even though the "long term visa" in your passport is only good for 3 months. Some people I know waited 2.5 years for their residence card, another over a year. More? The French healthcare system is pretty good, but you won't get on it until after several trips to the Social Security office. Whoops, your entire file was sent back to you because they needed some additional piece of documentation they didn't tell you about. Make another appointment. Repeat. Repeat. Drivers license? If you are 1 of 14 states you can exhcange easily, but you only have 1 year to do that, after which you have to go to driving school. 3000 euros. Better learn French to pass the test. Better learn French to navigate all the adminstration. So Year 1 you will not be productive. You will be running around trying to stay legally. For an entire year. Ask me how I know.
I am French and I went through the process of immigrating to both the UK and the US. While I agree that France is particularly painful about burocracy, what you describe is not a breeze elsewhere either.
You have to compare with other systems, cause I don't know of any immigrants who can say "oh coming here was so easy".
That is unless you're sent by a big company who takes care of everything.
It was a nightmare for my partner and I as well. We lived together in Germany for 3 years with no problems (We are Australian), but moving to Lyon nearly broke me.
I won't go in to details (unless someone asks) but one thing that I want to share is a great option for expats needing a French bank account quickly. It's called Compte Nickel: a fairly new (at the time) startup that is essentially a small bank-like system which requires only a French mailing address, a passport, €20, and a visit to a participating newsagent.
That gets you a bank account with the required RIB so you can get your salary paid, use ATMs, make online payments, and the like. It comes with a Mastercard debit card which the newsagent hands you upon setup in-store. The account has some limits on transactions to prevent laundering but nothing we found a hindrance. It costs €20 a year. If anyone is having issues getting a French bank account just so they can get on their feet, it will be of use to you:
We've since moved back to Germany, which was a huge relief. Being able to just email the local immigration office to give some info or agree on an appointment time... unthinkable in France.
Disclaimer : I might be biased : I am currently waiting for my H1B to process in order to move to San Francisco.
I have worked in France for most of my career so far. My first hand experience is of course limited (I only have 5 years of experience) but I really feel that the FrenchTech is overblown. There are some great startups but they are extremely rare.
We have started hiring non french people in the startup I work for one year ago and the culture clash is tremendous. Things that have bothered me for a while are doubly strange for them :
- Everything takes a LOT of time and nobody prioritizes making the process more efficient. There are many bottlenecks.. after discussing with colleagues in non French companies, they have all found solutions in order to solve them. Here there is no will to do so. So it can take weeks to merge simple changes.
- very large aversion to new technology. Pretty much constantly lagging 1 to 2 years behind the rest of the community.
-LOTS of office politics
I don't expect any of these to become perfect in another country but I am more than ready for a change of air.
> If you've dealt with the DMV in the US, imagine that for everything. You can't just walk into a bank and open an account
I know the DMV is the ultimate symbol, to a lot of Americans, of the ultimate administrative clutter. But trust me, if any 'public services' of France could run with just half the throughput and efficiency of the DMV, people would be more than happy with that :P
-> For the ultimate kafkaesque experience, just try get a car registration outside of Paris intra-murros, say, Neuf-Trois. You'll discover an alternative universe and might realize that hey, the DMV is awesome!
It looks great on paper but the devil will be in the detail and how well they execute on the admin/bureaucracy side.
If my experience a few years ago with the auto entrepreneur scheme and URSAFF are anything to go by, you'll need a lot of patience, the ability to speak half decent French and a sense of humour if you want to avoid ripping all your hair out :)
I love France (have even married one of their citizens!) but this is a country where in 2013 we moved from one department to another and had to close our bank accounts with the branches in the first department and open new ones in the second department because there was no way to migrate accounts between branches of the same bank o_O We literally had to post cheques to a friend in the old department so he could deposit them while we waited for the old accounts to be closed and new ones opened (complete with different cards, chequebooks, account numbers - the works).
Why did we need to migrate accounts? Because you could only deposit cheques in the same department as your local branch. Why were we depositing cheques?! Because half of France (including my fiancées' employer at the time) still uses them for everything (which is also great fun if you're in a rush in Super-U and the person in front decides to pay with one).
Having said all of that, France is awesome despite its flaws and there are lots of reasons to be hopeful with Macron now piloting the ship.
After having lived and worked in multiple EU countries, I'm convinced that language is the single biggest barrier to true freedom of movement of workers in the EU. In Germany, for example, you cannot assume any daily task can be accomplished without the German language. You're then faced with either constantly dealing with communication problems with everything in your life, or paying the significant opportunity cost of learning a new language -- which you will likely never learn to high enough degree to fluently use in business, and which won't help you in the next country in which you live.
What is needed is a joint common language (English) that everyone in the EU learns starting in kindergarten and in which you're guaranteed state services in every member state. But there is no chance the French and German speakers would ever agree to that, it is like a religious issue.
Personally, I've moved two times and I didn't have to do the close/open/cheque stuff. And the direct debit authorization I've since before the first move keep working.
As for cheques, It's very rarely used, I still use the first chequebook I was given when I opened my bank account more than 10 years ago. I've never experienced the "pay by cheque" at the super market since I was a child. Cheques are used in very few situations, the last I encountered was for the "solde de tout compte" when I left my previous job.
At least 20% of French people express capitalism-hostile opinions (and it goes well beyond Mélenchon voters). You face hostility as soon as you make money, with consequences ranging from being denied places in the kindergarten to the "petit Gregory" affair where the 5 years old son of a newly promoted team leader was drowned. I'm trying to show off as much as I can that I'm sponsoring poverty, donating a lot, making a lot for minorities, etc, because truth is, I'm afraid of getting mugged. People who criticize me, talking as if I belonged to the group of tax evaders, themselves don't have a clean business and evade taxes just as much as Greek citizen, so don't expect any rationality in their despicable criticism. Things can be so simple as, if you don't buy locally-grown groceries, you deserve to be told off in public for not helping the local population.
If you belong to the Christian minority, expect to be harassed by those you say "We need to respect all religions". Everyday you'll face jokes like "priests rape kids, followers are stuck-up, donating is worse than sponsoring a mafia".
President Macron himself is seen as a capitalist enemy by those 20-50%, and this Mélenchon group explicitly denies his legitimacy. There are currently very active groups and many of my friends are preparing the ground on Facebook (God knows what kind of riots they're preparing for September – you think I'm kidding? wait and watch).
French people are entirely hostile to privately-owned companies and average-wealthy managers, so, no, I wouldn't recommend my country for entrepreneurs, not until they make peace with a reasonable dose of capitslism. And that's where I have hope for Macron: If he does the right things, he may tame anti-capitalism sentiments a bit and show that hard works does bring money.
I have the Auto Entrpreneur status (even though I'm currently employed). If you understand french, registering to it is a breeze, otherwise you can find help online, I agree that it could be improved though.
You can use an online bank if you think you'll move around a lot. Plus today it has become very easy to switch bank thanks to Loi Macron, and most bank now take charge of everything to attract new customers.
I'm not exactly sure, but i think of the EU countries. Flanders in Belgium would be a better place to start then France.
All developers/people speak: French, English and Dutch.
The only thing is, the taxes are very high. But on the other hand, the health care is awesome and cheap. Flemish people are also known to be hard workers
Anekdote: I'm Flemish, but this is what polls/research of EU-countries also conclude.
The things you hear in the news, is mostly when the Southern part of Belgium is involved ( strikes, political crisis, Brussels-Molenbeek). Due to differences between North and South Belgium ( south = very socialist and even communism since recently, where north is more liberal)
I actually believe the northern part of Belgium has more in common with the Netherlands, than the southern part..
PS. I'll probably be downvoted, but please add your opinion. I know it's very controversial. That doesn't mean i'm wrong. If you think i'm wrong, i'm open for alternative opinions as always.
I went through a similar situation myself and had a similar yet more positive experience.
> Why did we need to migrate accounts? Because you could only deposit cheques in the same department as your local branch.
Not true for all banks, national ones (like BNP) always allowed to deposit anywhere, and for most you could mail directly to the account branch (no need to go through a friend). Also, online banks solve this nicely.
> Why were we depositing cheques?! Because half of France (including my fiancées' employer at the time) still uses them for everything (which is also great fun if you're in a rush in Super-U and the person in front decides to pay with one).
"Half" is overemphatic, even for 2013. This is not the case anymore, huge majority now pays via chip and pin cards and waiting in line is not so much of a problem with self-checkout machines.
I definitely understand you in the banking thing. We found out a lot of their banks aren't actually banks but regional credit unions. Our bank in rive gauche was not the same bank in Picardi or Bordeaux. Getting new cards required us to drive down from Paris to our actual branch in Bordeaux.
We eventually transferred to a large multinational bank. It requires us to keep a lot of funds in their account. But I can deposit a check anywhere in France.
This seems sort of like the kind of visa system the USA would advertise to attract a particular talented group, does it not? The founder visa looks quite friendly and easy, but it's four years. What happens after that? And what if the startup fails, does the founder have to leave France?
I also wonder how appealing these international visa programs will be in light of the changing US immigration and visa system. Will the USA lose out on talent? Will the USA lose on half of the next generation of billion dollar+ startups? Assuming the past trend mentioned in WSJ persists, anyway
"The founder visa looks quite friendly and easy, but it's four years. What happens after that? And what if the startup fails, does the founder have to leave France?"
I think that ambiguity is by design, to attract certain type of demographics for people falling under the employees and founders groups. (i.e. young, unattached, adventurous)
For people falling into the investor group, I seriously doubt getting visa renewed after 4 year will be an issue as long as they are willing to bring in additional capital.
It says right there on the page that it's renewable. Also, if you are in the country legally for four years, and you work and pay taxes, it should be easy to get some other kind of permanent residence permit. After one more year, you can even apply for citizenship.
Here is a country that refused to give me knowledge when i needed it but it's now trying to lure me in.
A decade back i finished my high school in a French speaking country with honors and got an admission in a French university to study Business Administration. I've been refused the entry visa for some imaginary reasons. Unofficially i was part of the group of potential foreign students who may refuse to go back to their home-country after graduation.
I then stayed in my country went to university to get a "useless" B.A. that couldn't help me to face the socio-economic realities of the world.
In 2015 i read a book "Googled" by Ken Auletta that shacked me to the core and pushed me to learn how to code.
I'm now a self taught programmer with skills that will benefit any French Tech startup and products' projects that could create 1000s of jobs in France if i decide to start my companies there.
That said, I would not go to France because it didn't welcome me when i wanted to get in order to acquire knowledge. Now France "needs" me to come and boost their shrinking economy with the tech-knowledge i have acquired elsewhere.
Sorry Monsieur le President, I ain't coming.
It should not be that personal. This a weird way to think of it, France is 20 million times different from the "France" of that person or persons, who decided you do not go there. I was turned down from getting an entry visa to a country when I needed it the most, yet go it later very easily for something that I was not very keen to travel for it. By the way, I went to France last month and loved every minute of it.
I've been working on relocating to France, and while I'm very excited to do it it's been frustrating to try to get information about this program. People don't seem to know what documentation is required, and replies come after weeks (if ever) from government bodies.
If they're looking to attract founders, founders will obviously care about exits. It might not be the #1 concern, but it's up there. France has a reputation for very high taxes and a seeming contempt for very large cash windfalls. I'd be curious how they plan to improve this international image.
They're requiring masters degrees for entrepreneur visas. One thing Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk, Steve Jobs, Steve Wozniak, Lei Jun, Mark Zuckerberg, Bill Gates, Larry Ellison, Travis Kalanic and Cheng Wei all have in common is a lack of a master's degree.
Why would France add a restriction to their visa that would have eliminated the founders of Amazon, Paypal, Tesla, SpaceX, Apple, Xiaomi, Facebook, Microsoft, Oracle, Uber and Didi Chuxing?
Are they pinning all their hopes on someone following the path of Larry Page or Robin Li, except choosing to immigrate to France to start their search engine? Are the people who made the rule just not aware how few of the top tech company founders have master's degrees? Is it some kind of intentional low-beta strategy to try to scoop up a bunch of more certain, smaller wins?
I truly don't understand what kind of reasoning went into to this program. It's just making France look out of touch.
Edit: ok apparently the founder needs money and it's employees who all need masters degrees (nearly as bad).
I've been looking forward to more details about this program emerging seeing that I'm a french-speaking francophile who recently made a transition to a career in programming.
The minimum education requirement being a Master's degree is quite disappointing. I fear they are making the same mistake as Japan when the latter introduced their points-based immigration system that requires you to be fluent in Japanese with a Master's degree and published research, making far above the salary any Japanese worker would make in the same position.
France isn't exactly an easy country to immigrate to. I was toying with the idea of doing a Master's earlier this year; this might be the motivation I need to get it done now.
The US has a very similar requirement for their visa (I'm specifically referring to E3, which is the H1B for Australians) which only lets in 'skilled' people, defined by a university degree (or 3 years of work experience for every 1 year of degree, so a total of 9-12 years).
It was pretty disheartening to get a job offer from a big tech firm in New York only to have any chances shot down because of visa...
It will be interesting to see how French engineers and computer scientists see this type of visa. The perhaps equivalent H1B visa in the US is or was obviously a big plus in certain areas but was lately perceived as an abuse channel to get cheap labour to replace the locals. Hopefully this scheme won't be abused...
For those who are seriously considering moving to a European nation for work purposes, you might want to also look up the EU blue card scheme[1] which is most likely more flexible than this for employees (no idea of equivalent for founders and investors).
Edit - it turns out that the link I put here is actually for a private company. I haven't had any luck finding a more official link for information. If you can help, I'll update this.
This is PR. Innovation in France in the start up space is stale. Our talents usually go to somewhere else because you get 3 times the pay and much more exciting projects.
Projects here are usually quite classical. Investors are shy with money. People from both sides reject risks, and hence the chance of a big success. They want the unicorns for cheap, without having to go find it in the forest and care for it.
The administrative burden, the taxes and the terrible situation with hiring give the last blow.
France is a terrible place for start ups. We got some. But given the great talent pool we have, I find the quantity and quality pitiful. We have good people here, smart ones, efficient ones, nice onces. And we waste so many opportunities.
Very French for them to require a masters degree for employees. Contrast that to the more welcoming working permit in Germany[1]. Also currently the startup scene in Berlin looks pretty interesting!
As some here have posted disparaging comments about French bureaucracy, I'd like to share my own experience. I've have emigrated to France four years ago with my wife and our two kids. On the whole our experience dealing with the government has been quite positive.
Yes, some stuff feels really backwards, like getting a bank account (it helps a lot if you have a big wad of cash to dangle in front of your banker, you'll get treated differently), the RSI (social security for entrepreneurs) and the CAF (child support) are frustratingly incompetent, but most bureaucrats we dealt with have been quite understanding to our needs and some of them have really gone out of their way to help us.
I think it really depends who you stumble upon, and most of all - if you make an effort to speak French (which is definitely one of the hardest things about emigrating to France) you'll find that in the end it all works out, it just might take some time!
At this point it seems that many Europe nations are more "free" than the US. Now with same-sex marriage getting legal in germany the probably last big issue is resolved. You will not get extreme high salaries like in the US, but there is stuff like free higher education and getting serious medical care won't be expensive at all.
Also remember that the EU has a higher population than the US with very diverse countries to explore just a few hours apart, all rich of culture and stuff that is over thousand years old.
From reading the comments there seems to be huge potential for a startup in France: Making it easy to navigate the bureaucracy. Automate everything, streamline communications, speed up enquiries, etc
This is assuming that the bureaucracy cannot be disrupted itself outside of the government. I imagine if such a startup would work it would have lots of popular support. Uber for Bureaucracy.
[+] [-] graniter|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] d--b|8 years ago|reply
You have to compare with other systems, cause I don't know of any immigrants who can say "oh coming here was so easy".
That is unless you're sent by a big company who takes care of everything.
[+] [-] cknight|8 years ago|reply
I won't go in to details (unless someone asks) but one thing that I want to share is a great option for expats needing a French bank account quickly. It's called Compte Nickel: a fairly new (at the time) startup that is essentially a small bank-like system which requires only a French mailing address, a passport, €20, and a visit to a participating newsagent.
That gets you a bank account with the required RIB so you can get your salary paid, use ATMs, make online payments, and the like. It comes with a Mastercard debit card which the newsagent hands you upon setup in-store. The account has some limits on transactions to prevent laundering but nothing we found a hindrance. It costs €20 a year. If anyone is having issues getting a French bank account just so they can get on their feet, it will be of use to you:
https://compte-nickel.fr
We've since moved back to Germany, which was a huge relief. Being able to just email the local immigration office to give some info or agree on an appointment time... unthinkable in France.
[+] [-] on_and_off|8 years ago|reply
I have worked in France for most of my career so far. My first hand experience is of course limited (I only have 5 years of experience) but I really feel that the FrenchTech is overblown. There are some great startups but they are extremely rare.
We have started hiring non french people in the startup I work for one year ago and the culture clash is tremendous. Things that have bothered me for a while are doubly strange for them :
- Everything takes a LOT of time and nobody prioritizes making the process more efficient. There are many bottlenecks.. after discussing with colleagues in non French companies, they have all found solutions in order to solve them. Here there is no will to do so. So it can take weeks to merge simple changes.
- very large aversion to new technology. Pretty much constantly lagging 1 to 2 years behind the rest of the community.
-LOTS of office politics
I don't expect any of these to become perfect in another country but I am more than ready for a change of air.
[+] [-] vidoc|8 years ago|reply
I know the DMV is the ultimate symbol, to a lot of Americans, of the ultimate administrative clutter. But trust me, if any 'public services' of France could run with just half the throughput and efficiency of the DMV, people would be more than happy with that :P
-> For the ultimate kafkaesque experience, just try get a car registration outside of Paris intra-murros, say, Neuf-Trois. You'll discover an alternative universe and might realize that hey, the DMV is awesome!
[+] [-] corford|8 years ago|reply
If my experience a few years ago with the auto entrepreneur scheme and URSAFF are anything to go by, you'll need a lot of patience, the ability to speak half decent French and a sense of humour if you want to avoid ripping all your hair out :)
I love France (have even married one of their citizens!) but this is a country where in 2013 we moved from one department to another and had to close our bank accounts with the branches in the first department and open new ones in the second department because there was no way to migrate accounts between branches of the same bank o_O We literally had to post cheques to a friend in the old department so he could deposit them while we waited for the old accounts to be closed and new ones opened (complete with different cards, chequebooks, account numbers - the works).
Why did we need to migrate accounts? Because you could only deposit cheques in the same department as your local branch. Why were we depositing cheques?! Because half of France (including my fiancées' employer at the time) still uses them for everything (which is also great fun if you're in a rush in Super-U and the person in front decides to pay with one).
Having said all of that, France is awesome despite its flaws and there are lots of reasons to be hopeful with Macron now piloting the ship.
[+] [-] zmb_|8 years ago|reply
After having lived and worked in multiple EU countries, I'm convinced that language is the single biggest barrier to true freedom of movement of workers in the EU. In Germany, for example, you cannot assume any daily task can be accomplished without the German language. You're then faced with either constantly dealing with communication problems with everything in your life, or paying the significant opportunity cost of learning a new language -- which you will likely never learn to high enough degree to fluently use in business, and which won't help you in the next country in which you live.
What is needed is a joint common language (English) that everyone in the EU learns starting in kindergarten and in which you're guaranteed state services in every member state. But there is no chance the French and German speakers would ever agree to that, it is like a religious issue.
[+] [-] kakwa_|8 years ago|reply
Personally, I've moved two times and I didn't have to do the close/open/cheque stuff. And the direct debit authorization I've since before the first move keep working.
As for cheques, It's very rarely used, I still use the first chequebook I was given when I opened my bank account more than 10 years ago. I've never experienced the "pay by cheque" at the super market since I was a child. Cheques are used in very few situations, the last I encountered was for the "solde de tout compte" when I left my previous job.
[+] [-] tajen|8 years ago|reply
If you belong to the Christian minority, expect to be harassed by those you say "We need to respect all religions". Everyday you'll face jokes like "priests rape kids, followers are stuck-up, donating is worse than sponsoring a mafia".
President Macron himself is seen as a capitalist enemy by those 20-50%, and this Mélenchon group explicitly denies his legitimacy. There are currently very active groups and many of my friends are preparing the ground on Facebook (God knows what kind of riots they're preparing for September – you think I'm kidding? wait and watch).
French people are entirely hostile to privately-owned companies and average-wealthy managers, so, no, I wouldn't recommend my country for entrepreneurs, not until they make peace with a reasonable dose of capitslism. And that's where I have hope for Macron: If he does the right things, he may tame anti-capitalism sentiments a bit and show that hard works does bring money.
[+] [-] rorykoehler|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wavefunction|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] thbt|8 years ago|reply
You can use an online bank if you think you'll move around a lot. Plus today it has become very easy to switch bank thanks to Loi Macron, and most bank now take charge of everything to attract new customers.
[+] [-] NicoJuicy|8 years ago|reply
All developers/people speak: French, English and Dutch.
The only thing is, the taxes are very high. But on the other hand, the health care is awesome and cheap. Flemish people are also known to be hard workers
Anekdote: I'm Flemish, but this is what polls/research of EU-countries also conclude.
The things you hear in the news, is mostly when the Southern part of Belgium is involved ( strikes, political crisis, Brussels-Molenbeek). Due to differences between North and South Belgium ( south = very socialist and even communism since recently, where north is more liberal)
I actually believe the northern part of Belgium has more in common with the Netherlands, than the southern part..
PS. I'll probably be downvoted, but please add your opinion. I know it's very controversial. That doesn't mean i'm wrong. If you think i'm wrong, i'm open for alternative opinions as always.
[+] [-] lloeki|8 years ago|reply
> Why did we need to migrate accounts? Because you could only deposit cheques in the same department as your local branch.
Not true for all banks, national ones (like BNP) always allowed to deposit anywhere, and for most you could mail directly to the account branch (no need to go through a friend). Also, online banks solve this nicely.
> Why were we depositing cheques?! Because half of France (including my fiancées' employer at the time) still uses them for everything (which is also great fun if you're in a rush in Super-U and the person in front decides to pay with one).
"Half" is overemphatic, even for 2013. This is not the case anymore, huge majority now pays via chip and pin cards and waiting in line is not so much of a problem with self-checkout machines.
[+] [-] nraynaud|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wanghq|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] yardie|8 years ago|reply
We eventually transferred to a large multinational bank. It requires us to keep a lot of funds in their account. But I can deposit a check anywhere in France.
[+] [-] coredog64|8 years ago|reply
Don't they have the printers that will fill in your check?
[+] [-] notadoc|8 years ago|reply
I also wonder how appealing these international visa programs will be in light of the changing US immigration and visa system. Will the USA lose out on talent? Will the USA lose on half of the next generation of billion dollar+ startups? Assuming the past trend mentioned in WSJ persists, anyway
https://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2016/03/17/study-immigrants-fou...
[+] [-] pcurve|8 years ago|reply
I think that ambiguity is by design, to attract certain type of demographics for people falling under the employees and founders groups. (i.e. young, unattached, adventurous)
For people falling into the investor group, I seriously doubt getting visa renewed after 4 year will be an issue as long as they are willing to bring in additional capital.
[+] [-] tom_mellior|8 years ago|reply
It says right there on the page that it's renewable. Also, if you are in the country legally for four years, and you work and pay taxes, it should be easy to get some other kind of permanent residence permit. After one more year, you can even apply for citizenship.
[+] [-] NoB4Mouth|8 years ago|reply
A decade back i finished my high school in a French speaking country with honors and got an admission in a French university to study Business Administration. I've been refused the entry visa for some imaginary reasons. Unofficially i was part of the group of potential foreign students who may refuse to go back to their home-country after graduation. I then stayed in my country went to university to get a "useless" B.A. that couldn't help me to face the socio-economic realities of the world. In 2015 i read a book "Googled" by Ken Auletta that shacked me to the core and pushed me to learn how to code. I'm now a self taught programmer with skills that will benefit any French Tech startup and products' projects that could create 1000s of jobs in France if i decide to start my companies there. That said, I would not go to France because it didn't welcome me when i wanted to get in order to acquire knowledge. Now France "needs" me to come and boost their shrinking economy with the tech-knowledge i have acquired elsewhere. Sorry Monsieur le President, I ain't coming.
[+] [-] samer66|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] samer66|8 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] jgh|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wuxmedia|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] seiferteric|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hkmurakami|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] xiaoma|8 years ago|reply
Why would France add a restriction to their visa that would have eliminated the founders of Amazon, Paypal, Tesla, SpaceX, Apple, Xiaomi, Facebook, Microsoft, Oracle, Uber and Didi Chuxing?
Are they pinning all their hopes on someone following the path of Larry Page or Robin Li, except choosing to immigrate to France to start their search engine? Are the people who made the rule just not aware how few of the top tech company founders have master's degrees? Is it some kind of intentional low-beta strategy to try to scoop up a bunch of more certain, smaller wins?
I truly don't understand what kind of reasoning went into to this program. It's just making France look out of touch.
Edit: ok apparently the founder needs money and it's employees who all need masters degrees (nearly as bad).
[+] [-] ramblerman|8 years ago|reply
Only the employee's visa requires a masters degree. All the big names you dropped were people that never intended to be employees.
I'm not sure what the problem is.
> It's just making France look worse.
This is just silly.
[+] [-] magnusdeus123|8 years ago|reply
The minimum education requirement being a Master's degree is quite disappointing. I fear they are making the same mistake as Japan when the latter introduced their points-based immigration system that requires you to be fluent in Japanese with a Master's degree and published research, making far above the salary any Japanese worker would make in the same position.
France isn't exactly an easy country to immigrate to. I was toying with the idea of doing a Master's earlier this year; this might be the motivation I need to get it done now.
[+] [-] madeofpalk|8 years ago|reply
It was pretty disheartening to get a job offer from a big tech firm in New York only to have any chances shot down because of visa...
[+] [-] boobsbr|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sgroppino|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] devnonymous|8 years ago|reply
[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Card_(European_Union)
[+] [-] hluska|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Animats|8 years ago|reply
Any info on the success rate?
[+] [-] sametmax|8 years ago|reply
Projects here are usually quite classical. Investors are shy with money. People from both sides reject risks, and hence the chance of a big success. They want the unicorns for cheap, without having to go find it in the forest and care for it.
The administrative burden, the taxes and the terrible situation with hiring give the last blow.
France is a terrible place for start ups. We got some. But given the great talent pool we have, I find the quantity and quality pitiful. We have good people here, smart ones, efficient ones, nice onces. And we waste so many opportunities.
[+] [-] jedmeyers|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] samfisher83|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] raitom|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ensiferum|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kawera|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] alpeb|8 years ago|reply
[1]http://www.bluecard-eu.de/eu-blue-card-germany/work-permit.h...
[+] [-] ciconia|8 years ago|reply
Yes, some stuff feels really backwards, like getting a bank account (it helps a lot if you have a big wad of cash to dangle in front of your banker, you'll get treated differently), the RSI (social security for entrepreneurs) and the CAF (child support) are frustratingly incompetent, but most bureaucrats we dealt with have been quite understanding to our needs and some of them have really gone out of their way to help us.
I think it really depends who you stumble upon, and most of all - if you make an effort to speak French (which is definitely one of the hardest things about emigrating to France) you'll find that in the end it all works out, it just might take some time!
[+] [-] unknown|8 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] geodel|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] zura|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] anonyfox|8 years ago|reply
Also remember that the EU has a higher population than the US with very diverse countries to explore just a few hours apart, all rich of culture and stuff that is over thousand years old.
Oh, and of course we don't have Trump. :D
[+] [-] thinkingemote|8 years ago|reply
This is assuming that the bureaucracy cannot be disrupted itself outside of the government. I imagine if such a startup would work it would have lots of popular support. Uber for Bureaucracy.