I've been burned by the Amazon Affiliate Program on three separate occasions, and as a result I would not recommend it to anyone else. All three cases were for completely legitimate, high-quality websites that I created (all original content, decent traffic, good conversion rates, no gimmicks). Each time, I would be approved for the program, generate a few hundred dollars in referred sales over the space of weeks or months, and then Amazon would send me a message that my account had been terminated (and of course, no way to get any of the commission I had earned).
Each time, they pointed me to a part of the agreement that says you need to have "original content" that isn't primarily just ads. In each case, I know the content was original (I created it: mostly articles about DIY electronics, 3D printing, etc), there were no other ads on the sites other than a few (2 or 3 per page) affiliate links where I mentioned products that I had incorporated into my own DIY projects.
I wasn't able to get any further explanation from Amazon in these cases, so I don't even know why they kept shutting down my accounts - and I guess that's what concerns me the most. Even if they hadn't shut me down when they did, the fact remains that they could, at any point in time, shut down or significantly alter the terms of our "agreement" at their (seemingly arbitrary) will.
Same boat here. We run an ecommerce marketplace that was sending a few hundred thousand of leads to Amazon every month. After a few years they shut us down for a minor infraction to ToS (which we fixed immediately upon being notified). No recourse to get account reinstated, in spite of us trying numerous avenues. And for good measure, they took the $15k worth of affiliate revenue they already owed us but hadn't yet paid out. Classy.
My conclusion: it's nice revenue while you can get it, but that probably won't be very long. Make money with their program and they're coming for you.
I would not recommend building a business on the affiliate model to anyone, unless they don't mind having virtually zero control.
eBay and Amazon are particularly notorious for draconian "enforcement" and sudden changes in terms and/or payouts.
Also, be aware that coupon and rebate sites generate the overwhelming majority of commissions across networks. While programs claim to want content, that's not where the real money or priority lies.
Some interesting takeaways further down in the OP's answers:
- Has "zero" web dev experience; everything is built on Wordpress and plugins.
- Gets "a couple hundred thousand PV/mo"
- He picked an broad niche that he himself doesn't particularly care about.
- Amazon's change to their commission rates last month hurt his income by about 25-30%
I found this part amusing:
> I filled my site with a few dozen high quality pieces of content, then started outreaching to other bloggers in my niche, either asking for a guest post or asking them to check out a piece of content/infographic I just created and asking them if they'd "share" (link) it with their audience (aka the skyscraper technique).
I get these goddamned emails every week, sometimes a dozen from the same person asking me to mention their blog post about SQL because I happen to have a page that ranks fairly high for some general SQL info apparently. Never thought the SEO actually paid off (these request emails look like they're generated from a template that can be easily automated(.
I'm interested in getting started with Amazons affiliate program. Whenever I go to research things, I find many stories like this one. But I don't want to pursue this track. I have dev experience, don't want to pay for views, want to write in a narrow niche I enjoy, and I don't care about the lower commissions to boot. I'd be beyond thrilled if I made made more than a hundred bucks a month.
Where can I find information about this path, versus the substanceless course this person took? I haven't had a public website in a decade and just want to know how to do things decently well and not get into trouble.
For me, number one takeaway is, "he has a worker paid 600/700 usd per month (superstar)" who I suppose is generating much more value than 7% (700 of 10000).
>> Never thought the SEO actually paid off (these request emails look like they're generated from a template that can be easily automated(.
There are services out there that make it really easy to manage blogger outreach, PR outreach, link building requests, etc. Sites like Pitchbox and Buzzstream.
> Has "zero" web dev experience; everything is built on Wordpress and plugins.
So what that sounds like to me is this website is just a delivery vector for whatever cookie cutter malware is floating around the ad networks who load up the sidebar.
So he's making $10k a month, and his trick, he says, is to have "high-quality, exceptional quality" content. But he does not write this content himself; rather, he pays $700 to "an expert copywriter in my niche [...] (he's a superstar)".
Seems like the real trick is to find someone talented but unaware of how much money they can generate on their own, and use their work to make money.
Now clearly, he's adding value, since that writer alone wouldn't know how to turn their writing into $10k a month. But I wonder if that writer is aware that their work is generating that much, and that they're only seeing 7% of it.
Dude could have just as easily (probably far more likely) have paid his writer for 6-8 months and ended up with a dud site. Writer is free to take that risk as well if he so chooses. Instead he's taking the less risky fixed payment.
He says that the copywriter writes 1 or 2 articles every week. He gets paid an average of 100$ per article. That's' not bad if you consider that the writer, for sure, is working for other people as well.
If I was going to spend this much time and effort creating content and building a site, I'd certainly not be sending the traffic and sales over to Amazon.
I'd most likely be drop-shipping products or actually carrying some inventory and then doing the shipping myself.
In the long run, it's much easier to sell a profitable business than sell an affiliate site. With the traffic and search engine rankings, I'd do a few things:
- Transition out of being an Amazon affiliate and start selling your own products, even if that means drop shipping or carrying inventory
- Change the overall look and feel of the site so that it's a real business with brand
- Use alternative methods of getting traffic to the site, other than Google organic search results. Develop an email list/email newsletter, test out FB ads and other paid search alternatives.
If you build a brand and actual store (rather than being an affiliate), it's a lot easier to cash out later on.
I was going to suggest maybe the guy involved wasn't interested in flipping the business & was happy working 5 hours a week and being able to run the business from anywhere.
However, the OP replied to this same comment over on Reddit [1]:
This seems like a cheap way to make money. You're basically filling Google search results with garbage. If I'm looking for recipes I want to be directed to Kitchn or Serious Eats or Chowhoud - no some blogspam site with tupperware container links.
Searching for things on Google is useless when the first 3 pages are just pages full of affiliate links and no real content. I don't know why they don't eliminate those pages from their rankings, or at least score them lower.
What if the site is genuinely useful, though? I like The Wirecutter for technology opinions, and affiliate links are the only way they make money. It seems like a win-win(-win) to me, if the products are actually things the visitors want to buy. They're a more informed and more satisfied consumer, Amazon (or whoever) gets another sale, and the blogger gets a commission.
I'm sorry but I call bullsh*t on a lot of aspects on this story. I think this may have been true 5-10 years ago, but not now, not the way the Web works now. Everyone ignores those cross-link e-mails. Getting the amount of articles he says is NOT enough; you need more. You just don't get high-quality content for .05 cents a word. And that's just for starters. I know, why would this person lie? But really, for those of us who do the Web day in, day out, there's a lot that just does not ring true in this post.
I assume its the tons of dumb 'content' put out there? Congesting Google Searches with nothing but wikipedia curated information with BS added to put Amazon Links in there. At least that's what disgusts me about that.
I agree. Every time I read about this type of "back-link hustling business" I come away feeling like I need to take a shower. Same with lead generation. I mean, congratulations, you can produce some cheap generic content and then spam it all over the web so my Google searches are 0.001% less relevant and you can suck a few $K a month out of Amazon.
Agreed. Not only is it completely destroying any hope I have of finding useful information in Google, but as someone who tries to create useful content, it makes you wonder why you even bother. Why write interesting articles/create informative YouTube videos when low quality clickbait and affiliate spam seems to make ten times more money?
Seeing stuff like this rake in the cash while actual journalists and publications struggle to stay afloat is incredibly depressing.
This is just another form of marketing, and marketing does create value. It's true that some marketing is dishonest and harmful, but I don't have a reason to think this is one of those cases.
This person is providing a service in reviewing products for people making buying decisions. As a result, they waste less time being unsure about their decision, and less money is spent on purchases they regret.
because... lo and behold! its not doing anything of value yet someone is getting paid a bunch. in fact, its probably doing more harm than good by spamming a bunch of people and chowdering up google. cue the "you cant know how valuable it is, thats what the market decides" people in 3... 2... 1...
dear younger people than me: strive to do something that you would be proud of even if you weren't getting paid. and if you do end up making a bunch of money without a lot of work, give it away! thats my feeling anyway.
Is Amazon still the only real large-scale affiliate program? I'm surprised Amazon is so unique in this when lots of competitors are trying to break into that space.
Amazon does their affiliate program in-house (It's just the &tag=affiliate-id on the regular URL. Many (most?) others use third party affiliate providers.
Adblockers often block third party affiliate providers.
Just an average Udemy creator here, but maybe what I've learned is useful.
I started doing Linux tutorials on YouTube a few years ago ( http://youtube.com/c/tutorialinux ) and then created a course on Udemy about a year ago. Affiliates make a decent percentage there (75%) but I suspect they have the same frustration that I do: Udemy has sales EVERY FEW DAYS.
Every few days there are sales that offer 90% off all courses, $10 courses, etc. etc. So a course with a $200 price tag will have an average sale price of $10-15, which leaves everyone (including affiliates) with pretty slim margins.
The simple problem is that they have the power to re-price courses as they see fit, and an incentive to do so (Udemy gets 50% of the revenue, possibly more from their promotions).
As it is, I make about the same amount of money from YouTube revenue (40k subscribers) as I do with one of the highest-rated Linux courses on Udemy (a few hundred dollars a month). It's really just a blip next to my salary; I can't see it replacing full-time tech work anytime soon.
I can't even begin to imagine putting in this amount of work and effort - while he may "only" spend 5-10 hours a week currently, apparently there was a lot of upfront effort - on something that is fundamentally of no interest to me: it really is just making money for money's sake, isn't it?
Makes me think about youtubers like Casey Neistat who post Amazon affiliate links in every video description. He's getting around 2m views per video. Wonder what that generates..
I'm not sure I understand, is this similar to the articles by comparison websites (e.g. The Wirecutter), or is he wholesale copy-pasting content from those sites & making affiliate money?
The trick is, it has to be high-quality. Exceptional quality. Read some articles on Greatist.com and you'll see exactly what I'm talking about. If you can write (or find a writer who can write) that type of content, then you're in business.
Describes his only employee, a writer, as a 'superstar' but pays him only $6-700/month while keeping $10,000 for himself. Sorry, that's sleazy. Give him more money you freeloader.
I've seen several stories like these lately. But no actually proof, no links to web sites etc. This might be an effort from Amazon to get more affiliates.
>Are you always one algorithm / policy change away from disaster?
Yes. I saw a peak of around $5k a month in AdSense around 2008 with a similar model as the story described. Personal finance articles. That got cut in half a few times by algorithm changes. Then I quit working on it altogether, and it slid more slowly. Though it still makes around $300/month with the current stale content and no updates for years.
It's not easy...basically a ton of outreach to get links, with few takers.
I made $600 with some friends on Amazon's affiliate program with a couple weeks worth of Facebook advertising, but I personally wouldn't recommend it as more than a side business. It doesn't scale very well due to the massive number of conversions you need, it's hard to track performance since you can't cookie the potential buyer, any sales outside of your country is usually lost (you have to sign up for separate affiliate programs for each country to make money abroad) and of course you're at the mercy of Amazon's business decisions.
It's better in the long term to set up your own store and build up lifetime value around your own brand, which is what I'm currently doing. You can start out that way dropshipping from AliExpress or with print on demand products. It's more work, but it's also more stable and of course scales a lot better.
But an even better suggestion is to build SaaS products. It scales even more and not many people know how to do it.
It sounds like he's doing quality work, really. There's no secret. He claims to have a GREAT copy writer for his niche and provides them with the exact info they are looking at google for. Do that for a few hundred well written articles and any site will rank well too.
But a google algorithm change could definitely crush his income.
[+] [-] dperfect|8 years ago|reply
Each time, they pointed me to a part of the agreement that says you need to have "original content" that isn't primarily just ads. In each case, I know the content was original (I created it: mostly articles about DIY electronics, 3D printing, etc), there were no other ads on the sites other than a few (2 or 3 per page) affiliate links where I mentioned products that I had incorporated into my own DIY projects.
I wasn't able to get any further explanation from Amazon in these cases, so I don't even know why they kept shutting down my accounts - and I guess that's what concerns me the most. Even if they hadn't shut me down when they did, the fact remains that they could, at any point in time, shut down or significantly alter the terms of our "agreement" at their (seemingly arbitrary) will.
[+] [-] emmelaich|8 years ago|reply
It's happened before; there was a HN post on it. Sorry can't remember the details off-hand.
[+] [-] wbharding|8 years ago|reply
My conclusion: it's nice revenue while you can get it, but that probably won't be very long. Make money with their program and they're coming for you.
[+] [-] unclebucknasty|8 years ago|reply
eBay and Amazon are particularly notorious for draconian "enforcement" and sudden changes in terms and/or payouts.
Also, be aware that coupon and rebate sites generate the overwhelming majority of commissions across networks. While programs claim to want content, that's not where the real money or priority lies.
[+] [-] danso|8 years ago|reply
- Has "zero" web dev experience; everything is built on Wordpress and plugins.
- Gets "a couple hundred thousand PV/mo"
- He picked an broad niche that he himself doesn't particularly care about.
- Amazon's change to their commission rates last month hurt his income by about 25-30%
I found this part amusing:
> I filled my site with a few dozen high quality pieces of content, then started outreaching to other bloggers in my niche, either asking for a guest post or asking them to check out a piece of content/infographic I just created and asking them if they'd "share" (link) it with their audience (aka the skyscraper technique).
I get these goddamned emails every week, sometimes a dozen from the same person asking me to mention their blog post about SQL because I happen to have a page that ranks fairly high for some general SQL info apparently. Never thought the SEO actually paid off (these request emails look like they're generated from a template that can be easily automated(.
[+] [-] carbonmachine|8 years ago|reply
Where can I find information about this path, versus the substanceless course this person took? I haven't had a public website in a decade and just want to know how to do things decently well and not get into trouble.
[+] [-] rdslw|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] FranOntanaya|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ivm|8 years ago|reply
It not only pays off for the ad-fueled sites, it's also the only way up in rankings for a product site.
No matter how good your software is – unless it went viral you'll be annoying people with link building emails.
[+] [-] bhartzer|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dsfyu404ed|8 years ago|reply
So what that sounds like to me is this website is just a delivery vector for whatever cookie cutter malware is floating around the ad networks who load up the sidebar.
[+] [-] GuiA|8 years ago|reply
Seems like the real trick is to find someone talented but unaware of how much money they can generate on their own, and use their work to make money.
Now clearly, he's adding value, since that writer alone wouldn't know how to turn their writing into $10k a month. But I wonder if that writer is aware that their work is generating that much, and that they're only seeing 7% of it.
[+] [-] SCdF|8 years ago|reply
> an expert copywriter in my niche who I pay about $600-$700 per month (he's a superstar).
> we're talking about $9,200-$10,200/mo in pure profit
Honestly the only thing I get out of this post is that to me it seems like his superstar copywriter is being ripped off.
Clearly I'm not cut out for entrepreneurial side hustle!
[+] [-] Trundle|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] middleman90|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bhartzer|8 years ago|reply
I'd most likely be drop-shipping products or actually carrying some inventory and then doing the shipping myself.
In the long run, it's much easier to sell a profitable business than sell an affiliate site. With the traffic and search engine rankings, I'd do a few things:
- Transition out of being an Amazon affiliate and start selling your own products, even if that means drop shipping or carrying inventory
- Change the overall look and feel of the site so that it's a real business with brand
- Use alternative methods of getting traffic to the site, other than Google organic search results. Develop an email list/email newsletter, test out FB ads and other paid search alternatives.
If you build a brand and actual store (rather than being an affiliate), it's a lot easier to cash out later on.
[+] [-] SyneRyder|8 years ago|reply
However, the OP replied to this same comment over on Reddit [1]:
"Great feedback, and I agree. eComm is Phase 2."
[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/Entrepreneur/comments/6lmotf/i_make...
[+] [-] bluedino|8 years ago|reply
Searching for things on Google is useless when the first 3 pages are just pages full of affiliate links and no real content. I don't know why they don't eliminate those pages from their rankings, or at least score them lower.
[+] [-] rthomas6|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] MrGrillet|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rewrew|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] NumberCruncher|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nudiustertian|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dna_polymerase|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ryandrake|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Mz|8 years ago|reply
I am increasingly inclined to go do something like this and see if it pays. Because trying to add value doesn't. It just makes me a chump.
[+] [-] CM30|8 years ago|reply
Seeing stuff like this rake in the cash while actual journalists and publications struggle to stay afloat is incredibly depressing.
[+] [-] rnprince|8 years ago|reply
This person is providing a service in reviewing products for people making buying decisions. As a result, they waste less time being unsure about their decision, and less money is spent on purchases they regret.
[+] [-] the_cat_kittles|8 years ago|reply
dear younger people than me: strive to do something that you would be proud of even if you weren't getting paid. and if you do end up making a bunch of money without a lot of work, give it away! thats my feeling anyway.
[+] [-] lamlam|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nimchimpsky|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rmason|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rb808|8 years ago|reply
Any other affiliate programs recommended?
[+] [-] corobo|8 years ago|reply
Adblockers often block third party affiliate providers.
[+] [-] antoaravinth|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bespoke_engnr|8 years ago|reply
I started doing Linux tutorials on YouTube a few years ago ( http://youtube.com/c/tutorialinux ) and then created a course on Udemy about a year ago. Affiliates make a decent percentage there (75%) but I suspect they have the same frustration that I do: Udemy has sales EVERY FEW DAYS.
Every few days there are sales that offer 90% off all courses, $10 courses, etc. etc. So a course with a $200 price tag will have an average sale price of $10-15, which leaves everyone (including affiliates) with pretty slim margins.
The simple problem is that they have the power to re-price courses as they see fit, and an incentive to do so (Udemy gets 50% of the revenue, possibly more from their promotions).
As it is, I make about the same amount of money from YouTube revenue (40k subscribers) as I do with one of the highest-rated Linux courses on Udemy (a few hundred dollars a month). It's really just a blip next to my salary; I can't see it replacing full-time tech work anytime soon.
[+] [-] bshimmin|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] IanCal|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] zimpenfish|8 years ago|reply
Depends if you want to retire early.
[+] [-] mandeepj|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] TaylorGood|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kikimaru|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] anigbrowl|8 years ago|reply
Describes his only employee, a writer, as a 'superstar' but pays him only $6-700/month while keeping $10,000 for himself. Sorry, that's sleazy. Give him more money you freeloader.
[+] [-] z3t4|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] MattLeBlanc001|8 years ago|reply
It will also get more people to find your Amazon affiliate ID and look for it on google. Which will reveal all your Amazon affiliate websites.
[+] [-] sillysaurus3|8 years ago|reply
It seems to rely primarily on Google ranks. Good gig if you can generate them.
Anyone have any other perspectives on how difficult this is?
[+] [-] tyingq|8 years ago|reply
Yes. I saw a peak of around $5k a month in AdSense around 2008 with a similar model as the story described. Personal finance articles. That got cut in half a few times by algorithm changes. Then I quit working on it altogether, and it slid more slowly. Though it still makes around $300/month with the current stale content and no updates for years.
It's not easy...basically a ton of outreach to get links, with few takers.
[+] [-] jameslk|8 years ago|reply
It's better in the long term to set up your own store and build up lifetime value around your own brand, which is what I'm currently doing. You can start out that way dropshipping from AliExpress or with print on demand products. It's more work, but it's also more stable and of course scales a lot better.
But an even better suggestion is to build SaaS products. It scales even more and not many people know how to do it.
[+] [-] Azkar|8 years ago|reply
But a google algorithm change could definitely crush his income.
[+] [-] unknown|8 years ago|reply
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