[babyrainbow]

> such that societies should maximize liberty of the individual?

This is required only because the controlling mechanism (the ruler/government) can be selfish and clueless in regards to what rules the subjects should follow for the well being of everyone. and also they are so detached from the problems of individuals....

Imagine a system where a ruler experience every pain and discomfort of every one of their subjects, real time (like in the body of a living thing). In such a system, I think individual liberty can be completely removed, because no one would not want to do anything outside of the rules anyway...

[alansammarone]

I don't think this is desirable in general. In the case of an individual, it makes sense to have a "live or die together" behaviour (mostly). I don't think this is the case with modern societies (cities or countries). It's completely plausible that a single individual has conflicting interests with the the rest of the system, and still, the individual (and the system) is better off doing its own thing.

[coldtea]

>Imagine a system where a ruler experience every pain and discomfort of every one of their subjects, real time (like in the body of a living thing).

And now imagine that the rule is a masochist, which was to intensify such pain and discomfort!

[chongli]

Individuals commit suicide all the time because of the pain they feel. Do we want a government that does that to society? Obviously not.