I've mentioned those machines before. They're still prototypes, nowhere near rugged enough for field use.
Agrobot: [1] Too many parts, too many places that can catch dirt, too slow. If they can solve the sensor problem, they need to do a complete mechanical redesign to make it field-ready.
Abundant Robotics: [2] Too slow, too fragile. For comparison, here's a Festo vision-guided robot picking up randomly oriented objects. Agricultural robotics needs that kind of speed.
This is going to be solved soon, but probably not by those startups.
Does anyone know of any groups or hacker like groups working on these types of problems? I own a small farm and for the life of me I cant find workers even at $25/hr. I have so far bought several tractors and implements and I am planning to semi-automate as much as possible. But that is not ready this year and I am basically by myself with a shovel... I would like to fully automate as much as possible, and I have zero skills in this area. To increase my chance of success I have bought several machines, such as 3d printers, a lathe, a milling machine, plasma cutter, welders (MIG and arc), and other tools, and I am building a shop right now. I have also worked with Ardunio, raspberry pi, ... basically I am going all out and want to go all the way to success. There are several machines I would like to build that I would like powered by the tractor´s PTO and hydraulic. The most important machine would be a planter that would plant solo-cup sized plant starts, and lay down drip irrigation. If I can build or buy that, that would save a lot of my time.
Wow, that is an epic start! IMO, the best thing you could do, is to meticulously document your projects, for a blog / vlog. The shop build would be a great first project to kick off a Youtube channel, for example. This should put you in contact with others who have similar technical-farming projects. Lots of hacker types in the aquaponics field, as well.
If this was happening anywhere near me, I would be all over it. I am in the complementary situation; I have a ton of ideas about how I want to build up an experimental farm/nursery/farm-tech incubator, but inadequate space and funding. Hope we see your work here in the future.
I work for a Systems Integration firm, and while we haven't automated a farm, we work a lot in Automation. If you're interested, you can check us out at CorsoSystems.com we do some pretty cool work and we do a lot of tinkerings with Raspberry Pi's and more. We do a ton of backend work with building databases and getting the information in and out of them, connecting everything. Guessing you'd need hell with that at some point.
On a side note, I feel your pain, my wife grew up in a farming community (kids were late to school because the cows got out) and there is food rotting in the fields because the migrant workers haven't been there en mass the last couple of years. With the INS crackdowns, it's only gotten worse.
We love farm stands and join CSA's when we can find them, you guys are great. Keep fighting the good fight!
I can't magic you up any workers but here's a hint:
You'd be astonished at how quickly and accurately a large air compressor with a small amount of water added to the flow can dig a shallow trench or small hole.
That’s because immigrant farmworkers in California’s
agricultural heartlands are getting older and not being
replaced.
As others have mentioned it's all to do with the wages that the fruit growers are willing to pay, and Driscoll's (mentioned in the article) have been at the center of controversy about their wages for some time for their practices in Mexico and elsewhere: https://boycott-driscolls.org/
The Union of Independent, National and Democratic
Farmworkers (SINDJA) calls for all independent and
autonomous boycott committees to unite for a global
day of action on November 19th. We invite all families
to support the International Boycott against
Driscoll’s in solidarity with farmworkers in San
Quintín, Mexico. In the US, when you sit down at
your tables on Thanksgiving Day, we’re asking you
to please think of the farmworkers in San Quintín,
who work 12 to 15 hours a day for as little as 6
US dollars in take-home pay. Meanwhile, Driscoll’s
is making multiple millions in profits.
Robots for labor are coming, and when they do it is time to take agriculturally productive land away from the profiteers. They serve no rational function in the economy and are merely monopolizing a resource.
> Robots for labor are coming, and when they do it is time to take agriculturally productive land away from the profiteers. They serve no rational function in the economy and are merely monopolizing a resource.
This is one of the big questions we'll have to ask in the next 20 or so years, and it just isn't farms. We are going to have to deal with plenty of industries that will merely consume resources and produce without providing any other benefits to society.
As has been confirmed in 95% of previous land reform efforts, farming is not "profiteering". When you take productive land from its owners and give it to the politically connected, you're left with unproductive land.
>From about 4000 BC oxen are harnessed and put to work. They drag sledges and, somewhat later, ploughs and wheeled wagons (an almost simultaneous innovation in the Middle East and in Europe). The plough immeasurably increases the crop of wheat or rice. The wagon enables it to be brought home from more distant fields.
The rising wages is notably mentioned in the article, and it is the implied reason for automation - the industry is not going to replace cheap workers with expensive workers, it's going to restructure everything (including the crop species it grows) to ensure that cheap workers are replaced with machines.
If some industry is employing $10 million of labor and market wages go up 20%, the expected outcome is not spending $12m on labor, you should rather expect something like spending $9m on labor and $2m on machines that weren't worth it back when labor was cheap but are worth it now.
Many industries, including this one, employ humans only because (and only while) they can do it cheaper than the machines. Yet. As the technology matures and becomes cheaper, and people want to earn more, the result is going to be simply less jobs.
The awful conditions and pay and protections result in people not wanting to do the work, since it's not even a livable wage. Might as well be begging (or move to somewhere else to beg), which is the easier and ultimately healthier choice.
Relative to what? Humans have been farming for thousands of years under worse condition and worse pay, yet humans still did it. In fact, even more humans used to do it. So awful pay and conditions are not a showstopper.
Necessity is also an agent of destruction... how many people here have projects that failed because the necessary resources (capital,resources,time) far exceeded what could be viably sourced?
> Stated bluntly, there aren’t enough new immigrants for the state’s nearly half-million farm labor jobs
That's why we need a "farmworker" visa system, which lets workers come when required and go back as needed. Millions of people work on such visas all over the world; I don't see why it won't work in the US.
Picking fruit and vegetables has always been peasant and serf work. The market has never once said, 'you should be paid more,' because there always is an underclass and even if you paid triple what you pay now it'd be the same class of people working the job. The problem is every American thinks he's too good to be at the bottom of the barrel these days.
It's not that simple with farming, unfortunately. Worker pay is necessarily based on individual productivity, which can only increase so much [0]. Margins are razor thin for producers to begin with. The vast majority of profits are captured by the manufacturing and distribution. This is why the IRS taxes farm workers and farm employers differently from any other kind of commercial activity.
They mention this in the article. The wages that the growers are willing to pay aren't capturing the interest of the locals or even the immigrant workers (since they have comparable jobs back home).
It's worth it to them to invest in tech rather than continue to pay higher wages.
Yeah... then the flip: When will it be unethical to eat food harvested by companies that don't employ people?
You can spin it in both directions... on one side, those poor people who do back breaking labor... on the other side, those poor people who can't get jobs that are done by robots.
I think the first step would be to work in the area for a while and learn about the real issues. A lot of industries look really easy when you take a quick look from the outside but reality is a little more complex.
there are startups. The issue is rarely technological capability as much as it is adoption, reliability, and durability. Not impossible just hard. There is a lot of work in the space being done by John Deere and others...a LOT of farm analytics, but most of their parts are still cast iron for a reason.
A lot of the issues currently are related to the mechanical handling of the fruit. It's very important not to bruise or damage the product. Buyers generally have strict rules on exactly how the fruit is picked, e.g., how much stem is still attached to the fruit, for both weight and quality reasons.
Other issues arise if the orchard is on uneven ground, or their are irrigation lines in the way.
Certainly not insurmountable, but not easy. Then there's the distinct problem of adoption.
Theoretically yes. Practically, no. Homelessness in rich countries is largely
a result of substance abuse and underlying personality disorders (which are often the reason the substance abuse starts).
Modern governments don't have the political will to break the social taboos necessary to instill discipline and personal responsibility in the homeless population, especially when there are large interest groups in the public sector who stand to lose financially from any serious effort to address the underlying causes of homelessness, especially if that effort rejects their ideological assumptions about the causes of homelessness.
It is definitely worth considering but there is the other side. Do you want prices to continue to rise as labor costs and healthcare grow? Or would you prefer these prices actually drop even as your income grows? I'm not saying either is right or wrong. Maybe this is solved with UBI or some other approach. If the taxes are super high, the incentive to automate is diminished.
Are you on drugs? If there are no margins nobody would even bother building a robot that actually can help with farm work.
You point is so delusional I really wonder how you can develop this kind of mindset and still end up in a technology/startup community like hacker news.
[+] [-] Animats|8 years ago|reply
Agrobot: [1] Too many parts, too many places that can catch dirt, too slow. If they can solve the sensor problem, they need to do a complete mechanical redesign to make it field-ready.
Abundant Robotics: [2] Too slow, too fragile. For comparison, here's a Festo vision-guided robot picking up randomly oriented objects. Agricultural robotics needs that kind of speed.
This is going to be solved soon, but probably not by those startups.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKT351pQHfI [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mS0coCmXiYU [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aH_t_1-tl40
[+] [-] delbel|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] devrandomguy|8 years ago|reply
If this was happening anywhere near me, I would be all over it. I am in the complementary situation; I have a ton of ideas about how I want to build up an experimental farm/nursery/farm-tech incubator, but inadequate space and funding. Hope we see your work here in the future.
[+] [-] The_DaveG|8 years ago|reply
On a side note, I feel your pain, my wife grew up in a farming community (kids were late to school because the cows got out) and there is food rotting in the fields because the migrant workers haven't been there en mass the last couple of years. With the INS crackdowns, it's only gotten worse. We love farm stands and join CSA's when we can find them, you guys are great. Keep fighting the good fight!
[+] [-] noonespecial|8 years ago|reply
You'd be astonished at how quickly and accurately a large air compressor with a small amount of water added to the flow can dig a shallow trench or small hole.
[+] [-] mac01021|8 years ago|reply
How is that possible? What part of the country are you in?
Is it that everyone willing to do the work lacks the necessary skills? Or just that no one is willing?
You can probably go to your local FedEx hub and find a bunch of guys who load trucks for less than $15/hr.
[+] [-] cwkoss|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|8 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] frabbit|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] seanmcdirmid|8 years ago|reply
This is one of the big questions we'll have to ask in the next 20 or so years, and it just isn't farms. We are going to have to deal with plenty of industries that will merely consume resources and produce without providing any other benefits to society.
[+] [-] jessaustin|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wtvanhest|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ams6110|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] minikites|8 years ago|reply
>From about 4000 BC oxen are harnessed and put to work. They drag sledges and, somewhat later, ploughs and wheeled wagons (an almost simultaneous innovation in the Middle East and in Europe). The plough immeasurably increases the crop of wheat or rice. The wagon enables it to be brought home from more distant fields.
[+] [-] dragonwriter|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dsfyu404ed|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] avs733|8 years ago|reply
In a market driven economy...which companies want...employees have market power as well when their is a shortage.
[+] [-] PeterisP|8 years ago|reply
If some industry is employing $10 million of labor and market wages go up 20%, the expected outcome is not spending $12m on labor, you should rather expect something like spending $9m on labor and $2m on machines that weren't worth it back when labor was cheap but are worth it now.
Many industries, including this one, employ humans only because (and only while) they can do it cheaper than the machines. Yet. As the technology matures and becomes cheaper, and people want to earn more, the result is going to be simply less jobs.
[+] [-] valuearb|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jack9|8 years ago|reply
The awful conditions and pay and protections result in people not wanting to do the work, since it's not even a livable wage. Might as well be begging (or move to somewhere else to beg), which is the easier and ultimately healthier choice.
[+] [-] randyrand|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] randomguy23|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gooseus|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 1024core|8 years ago|reply
That's why we need a "farmworker" visa system, which lets workers come when required and go back as needed. Millions of people work on such visas all over the world; I don't see why it won't work in the US.
[+] [-] unknown|8 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] sumedh|8 years ago|reply
The problem is, many people dont go back.
[+] [-] burner_account|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] csdrane|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] JustAnotherPat|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] aphextron|8 years ago|reply
http://nfwm.org/education-center/farm-worker-issues/low-wage... [0]
[+] [-] sushid|8 years ago|reply
It's worth it to them to invest in tech rather than continue to pay higher wages.
[+] [-] GirlsCanCode|8 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] xefer|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wernercd|8 years ago|reply
You can spin it in both directions... on one side, those poor people who do back breaking labor... on the other side, those poor people who can't get jobs that are done by robots.
Interesting time we live in.
[+] [-] rfrank|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mrfusion|8 years ago|reply
What would be the first steps to doing a start up in this space? Anyone interested?
[+] [-] maxxxxx|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] avs733|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rectangletangle|8 years ago|reply
Other issues arise if the orchard is on uneven ground, or their are irrigation lines in the way.
Certainly not insurmountable, but not easy. Then there's the distinct problem of adoption.
[+] [-] craigm26|8 years ago|reply
I’m definitely interested in the farm/cv realm. It takes funding though.
[+] [-] mikehines|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Jabanga|8 years ago|reply
Modern governments don't have the political will to break the social taboos necessary to instill discipline and personal responsibility in the homeless population, especially when there are large interest groups in the public sector who stand to lose financially from any serious effort to address the underlying causes of homelessness, especially if that effort rejects their ideological assumptions about the causes of homelessness.
[+] [-] RandyRanderson|8 years ago|reply
These will 99.999999% be McJobs.
[+] [-] hi1234567890|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] greglindahl|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] snarf21|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rlanday|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tonyedgecombe|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bflesch|8 years ago|reply
You point is so delusional I really wonder how you can develop this kind of mindset and still end up in a technology/startup community like hacker news.