Can someone explain why people prefer implants over rings? Functionality wise it's same: read on RFID tag, maybe with some light computation.
People wear rings all the time, application is painless, easy to change once compromised or if there is a new model, and provides same features. Chips would have advantage if they would provide better IO, but currently they don't.
Not wanting something extra to remember to put on in the morning.
If you're not used to wearing one, it might be uncomfortable.
For example I love the functionality my smart watch gives me, like not having to dig for my phone from my pocket every time something happens, for timers, and most obviously for time keeping, but I hate how it feels and looks and I've had terrible experience with cheaper straps/bands breaking after few months of use. It's just because I'm not a watch person, but until we can somehow embed screens in our skin, have something like Google glass embedded into our eyes, or have the data somehow streamed to our brains I'm stuck with wearing one.
Meh. I got an rfid implant in 2010 ish, but took it out after a few years because there were so few benefits. If there was a universal standard maybe, or if the range was > 10 cm, or if it had more than a few bytes of memory. I think most people who got a chip implant over the last 10 years came to the same conclusion. The only applications that show up in the press every now and then are like this - for payments. But never something that is widely available.
It's great to get yourself labeled a freak though. I got mine done in a a piercing shop, and when I walked in, the place was full with people with dozens of facial piercings, stretched earlobes and full arm and neck tattoos. But as soon as I mentioned the chip implant and showed that I was serious by showing the actual one I wanted put in, they all started murmuring and looking at me like I was send back in time from the year 2210. The owner wasn't sure how to feel when I pulled out a laptop and rfid reader and grinned like an idiot when I successfully logged on to the machine by waving my hand over the reader.
Also, I think you can get chips with kilobytes of memory easily. Sure, not enough to store too much data on there, but fairly reasonable for a bunch of stuff.
Two things I'd want to know before even entertaining the idea:
1. Are these safe during an MRI?
From what I've been able to find some chips seem fine during an MRI (Kari of MythBusters had one implanted and had an MRI done with no problems on an episode), but the FDA lists MRI incompatibility as a potential health concern for chip implants.
At least one manufacturer that says their chips are safe for MRI do say that people undergoing an MRI with their chips need to be continually monitored visually and aurally and told to alert the operate if the feel anything unusual, and patients who are sedated or anesthetized or confused should not be given MRIs.
2. Will these show up during the security check at airports? I dislike commercial air travel to the point that I have no intention of ever taking it again, but if I do, or if these oppressive security theater shows get extended to other forms of transit that I'm still currently open to, I don't like the idea of something that might trigger more extensive screening.
Bonus concern: how standardized is this stuff? If implanted chips for payments, opening doors, etc., take off and all kinds of places support them, is one chip enough or am I going to need one to unlock my office, one for my home, one for my car, one to pay via my credit card account (or worse, a separate one corresponding to each credit card account), one for buses, one for each store's rewards program, and so on?
Yeah, this is a good question. Something Visa-level reliable might make sense, conditional on your other questions. But getting the Discover implant that doesn't work most places? Or the Diner's Club implant that's the first big player but fades in popularity?
I don't really want to take sides in a format war using my own body.
The justifications for this are so utterly marginal. I'm sure some could benefit but it's vanishingly few people who will.
A ring (as others suggest) gets you most of the benefits - and maybe rings have the downside of being forgotten, but I've left my work passcard a few times over the years and it's not the end of the world... Not so bad I'd prefer a minor surgical procedure!
And the supposed advantage of not getting it caught in things? I might change my mind when I personally know five people who've lost limbs, but right now I know zero people who lost limbs...
> And the supposed advantage of not getting it caught in things?
There are definitely people who take off their rings regularly, like electricians and climbers. But even then, I virtually never hear about them losing rings, and they can put them on any time they'd be shopping. I'm really missing the advantage here.
I remember talking to an ex colleague who worked for now no longer relevant mobile operator, about the setup his colleagues had who worked in Korea:
- they were required to have their "tags" on them all the time as it opened door and things like that...
- but they were also timed on when and how long their toilet breaks were. Or if they went to the canteen too early or stayed too long for their lunch. For all the "offences" their pay was docked.
OK, maybe I'm old or old-fashioned or just not creative enough...
But what exactly are the advantages of this implant over NFC-cards or something like Apple Pay? That I cannot forget my card or my phone? I don't even know when this last happened to me...
Hygiene and safety, I would guess. A card in a lanyard can get caught up in all sorts of machinery and even a wristband can be slightly difficult to keep clean.
Its attached to the user semi-permananetly (not an advantage). Perhaps the customers (the business) are assuming because its implanted it can't be substituted like a smart card and therefore is somehow more secure, which of course it isn't.
Perhaps it does up the threshold for misuse, but still doesn't eliminate it completely.
Funny they think GPS tracking is the problem with this.
The problem is that it's a way to check your identity even if you'd prefer not to voluntarily provide it. I can scan you as you pass our flower pots without your knowledge and, even if, at first, I can't identify you, with time I will.
And by then you won't be able to easily remove the implant.
Facial recognition is improving so rapidly that having an extra microchip does not seem to add much value for identifying people. It's simpler to get the same information from cameras, which are ubiquitous. On the GPS side there's all that location data streaming out of your cell phone, not to mention the semantic information about what you are looking at/doing on the Internet.
There's a lot to be concerned in the privacy realm but many of the threats are already implemented and getting more effective very quickly.
I was wondering the same thing. What happens if you find a hardware fault/vulnerability, and the company has to recall the chips? Do you disable it and leave it inside the person? Do you cut your hand to get it out? This is a bit hilarious tbh.
I liked the part about it being encrypted and secure. Uh-huh. At least until one of these employees picks up something with an embedded RFID cloner... Even if the underlying data in encrypted and considered unusable by the 'bad guy', they can still use it in the encrypted form to impersonate the employee... sooooo....
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Implants are great for both the novelty and the convenience, but I don't like it being pitched as somehow being inherently more secure than a standard access card or whatever (beyond it being more difficult to have your hand stolen or misplaced).
I don't see any immediate problem with that assuming taking it out is relatively painless and there's no cost associated.
I'd like to have one so I wouldn't have to worry if I have office keys with me, instead I could just scan my arm at the door. I've never left my hand at home.
I dunno, I'm surprised you thought it was mandatory. Pretty confident in the state of Wisconsin you cannot force someone who does not have life threatening ailments surgery.
[+] [-] mic47|8 years ago|reply
People wear rings all the time, application is painless, easy to change once compromised or if there is a new model, and provides same features. Chips would have advantage if they would provide better IO, but currently they don't.
[+] [-] nextlevelwizard|8 years ago|reply
Not wanting something extra to remember to put on in the morning.
If you're not used to wearing one, it might be uncomfortable.
For example I love the functionality my smart watch gives me, like not having to dig for my phone from my pocket every time something happens, for timers, and most obviously for time keeping, but I hate how it feels and looks and I've had terrible experience with cheaper straps/bands breaking after few months of use. It's just because I'm not a watch person, but until we can somehow embed screens in our skin, have something like Google glass embedded into our eyes, or have the data somehow streamed to our brains I'm stuck with wearing one.
[+] [-] smhg|8 years ago|reply
But I agree the disadvantages of the implant make the ring sound better.
[+] [-] unknown|8 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] roel_v|8 years ago|reply
It's great to get yourself labeled a freak though. I got mine done in a a piercing shop, and when I walked in, the place was full with people with dozens of facial piercings, stretched earlobes and full arm and neck tattoos. But as soon as I mentioned the chip implant and showed that I was serious by showing the actual one I wanted put in, they all started murmuring and looking at me like I was send back in time from the year 2210. The owner wasn't sure how to feel when I pulled out a laptop and rfid reader and grinned like an idiot when I successfully logged on to the machine by waving my hand over the reader.
[+] [-] lrvick|8 years ago|reply
Also 1024 bytes is plenty to store pretty useful things like encrypted deterministic seeds for private keys for things like cryptocurrency, ssh, etc.
Would do it again, and have more implants planned.
[+] [-] owenversteeg|8 years ago|reply
Also, I think you can get chips with kilobytes of memory easily. Sure, not enough to store too much data on there, but fairly reasonable for a bunch of stuff.
[+] [-] tzs|8 years ago|reply
1. Are these safe during an MRI?
From what I've been able to find some chips seem fine during an MRI (Kari of MythBusters had one implanted and had an MRI done with no problems on an episode), but the FDA lists MRI incompatibility as a potential health concern for chip implants.
At least one manufacturer that says their chips are safe for MRI do say that people undergoing an MRI with their chips need to be continually monitored visually and aurally and told to alert the operate if the feel anything unusual, and patients who are sedated or anesthetized or confused should not be given MRIs.
2. Will these show up during the security check at airports? I dislike commercial air travel to the point that I have no intention of ever taking it again, but if I do, or if these oppressive security theater shows get extended to other forms of transit that I'm still currently open to, I don't like the idea of something that might trigger more extensive screening.
Bonus concern: how standardized is this stuff? If implanted chips for payments, opening doors, etc., take off and all kinds of places support them, is one chip enough or am I going to need one to unlock my office, one for my home, one for my car, one to pay via my credit card account (or worse, a separate one corresponding to each credit card account), one for buses, one for each store's rewards program, and so on?
[+] [-] Bartweiss|8 years ago|reply
Yeah, this is a good question. Something Visa-level reliable might make sense, conditional on your other questions. But getting the Discover implant that doesn't work most places? Or the Diner's Club implant that's the first big player but fades in popularity?
I don't really want to take sides in a format war using my own body.
[+] [-] nmstoker|8 years ago|reply
A ring (as others suggest) gets you most of the benefits - and maybe rings have the downside of being forgotten, but I've left my work passcard a few times over the years and it's not the end of the world... Not so bad I'd prefer a minor surgical procedure! And the supposed advantage of not getting it caught in things? I might change my mind when I personally know five people who've lost limbs, but right now I know zero people who lost limbs...
[+] [-] Bartweiss|8 years ago|reply
There are definitely people who take off their rings regularly, like electricians and climbers. But even then, I virtually never hear about them losing rings, and they can put them on any time they'd be shopping. I'm really missing the advantage here.
[+] [-] dotemacs|8 years ago|reply
- they were required to have their "tags" on them all the time as it opened door and things like that...
- but they were also timed on when and how long their toilet breaks were. Or if they went to the canteen too early or stayed too long for their lunch. For all the "offences" their pay was docked.
[+] [-] struppi|8 years ago|reply
But what exactly are the advantages of this implant over NFC-cards or something like Apple Pay? That I cannot forget my card or my phone? I don't even know when this last happened to me...
[+] [-] mseebach|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lostboys67|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tonylemesmer|8 years ago|reply
Perhaps it does up the threshold for misuse, but still doesn't eliminate it completely.
[+] [-] nextlevelwizard|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] patrickk|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rbanffy|8 years ago|reply
The problem is that it's a way to check your identity even if you'd prefer not to voluntarily provide it. I can scan you as you pass our flower pots without your knowledge and, even if, at first, I can't identify you, with time I will.
And by then you won't be able to easily remove the implant.
[+] [-] flyinghamster|8 years ago|reply
Even though I make no pretense of being overly religious, things like this look, if not Orwellian, than downright Mark-Of-The-Beast-ish.
[+] [-] hodgesrm|8 years ago|reply
There's a lot to be concerned in the privacy realm but many of the threats are already implemented and getting more effective very quickly.
[+] [-] ourmandave|8 years ago|reply
So my thought was combine the two into an RFID nose ring or something.
But the downside is you'd have people swiping various body parts in checkout lines. "It didn't go, try again. Wait, please don't try again."
[+] [-] mattcoles|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] malikNF|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Cyberdelic|8 years ago|reply
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Implants are great for both the novelty and the convenience, but I don't like it being pitched as somehow being inherently more secure than a standard access card or whatever (beyond it being more difficult to have your hand stolen or misplaced).
[+] [-] teilo|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] therealidiot|8 years ago|reply
I've seen tons of RFID implantable chips which aren't that interesting, I've also seen NFC ones but they just look to be read/write storage...
[+] [-] ElijahLynn|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cwilson|8 years ago|reply
Still crazy that anyone would opt-in to do this, but a misleading headline all the same.
[+] [-] nextlevelwizard|8 years ago|reply
I'd like to have one so I wouldn't have to worry if I have office keys with me, instead I could just scan my arm at the door. I've never left my hand at home.
[+] [-] hgdsraj|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dispo001|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mrkrabo|8 years ago|reply