This smells like cheap and irresponsible journalism. For one, the CEO is quoted as saying “There’s an entire ecosystem of things and services that the smart home can deliver once you have a rich map of the home that the user has allowed to be shared.” Further evidence is given in the form of part of the TOS where you essentially agree that if iRobot goes under, the buyer will get all the data. Obviously.
That's one blatant ignoring of the CEO's full statement, and one unfounded misinterpretation of the terms of service. Hardly justification for both the title and the premise of the article.
The bullet point quoted in the article is not saying "iRobot goes under". Any new sale of shares, even a reorganisation of the company would trigger consent that your data is fair game.
If iRobot agrees that AMZ buys 0.01% of the company, AMZ they get that info and customers already agreed to it. The CEO can now safely say what he said.
While the title may be a little clickbaity, it's important to note that roomba is making it an all or none feature. If you want to use the mapping feature which gives the product better ability to navigate, you must agree to having your info sold. Definitely not cool.
I appreciate your optimism, but this is or will be probably part of ToS when registering the app and you can't use the Roomba without "aggreeing to share".
That's the problem with journalism today though. With ad based revenue platforms, a view is a view. The content itself doesn't matter, only a headline that makes views does.
I really want to see a subscription system that rewards quality over just views.
Also, "highest bidder" is ragebait. There's nothing to indicate Roomba is looking to maximize for short-term profit as opposed to, say, selling the data to the third-party that would please its customers the most, or that made the most strategic sense for the future of the company.
Roombas do not (currently) remember your home's layout between cleaning sessions.
I have a top-end Roomba bought last year. Every time it runs, it starts by finding a wall and then carefully learning the spacial layout of my home. It then efficiently cleans the entire area, not going over any spot more than once if it can avoid it. Then it goes back to it's home and forgets everything in learned forever.
You can sell the layout to my home to anyone you like Roomba, just for god's sake, have your damn robot remember that layout between cleaning sessions.
I have a Neato and although it doesn't "remember" the layout (I mean, layouts can change, things get moved etc) it usually only takes around 3-5 seconds for it to scan the room and then it's on its way. So I do not see it as an issue or inconvenience. Is the Roomba different in that respect?
I remember seeing Roombas a couple of years ago and they were very 'dumb' compared to the Neato. Even the top-end model used a pretty basic wall following algorithm whereas the Neato uses laser to scan the room. Do the new, top-end, Roombas not also use a laser now?
I've noticed this as well. I used to have a Neato XV21, but I got tired of dealing wiht costly filters and that it ate all of my cables. I do miss it because it was efficient and notified me when the dirt bin was full.
Roomba vacuum maker iRobot betting big on the 'smart' home
(Techmeme headline for the above: Roomba vacuum maker iRobot hopes to sell its users' floor plan data, seeking deals with Amazon, Apple, and Alphabet (I couldn't submit this Reuters source to HN).
On a side note, anyone know of any other appliance manufacturers selling mapping data for customer's walls. Specifically locations of room safes? Just curious.
Are we safe from no one trying to sell us to companies?
I guess everything that's remotely network capable these days should be kept off the internet until it proves that it needs to - how do you ensure that it's not sending extra data back home without manually intercepting and inspecting all it's network traffic when it does connect?
A lot of smart devices such as Philips Hue can work completely offline, but if you want to control them remotely you need to agree to their cloud terms and conditions, which most likely includes selling your data. So from a user perspective they get added benefits, but the hidden cost is their privacy.
I have a Roomba and in no way does it have any capability to connect to any type of network, Internet or otherwise. Is this only on the high end models? I've never used the app because mine doesn't offer it, does the app require sign-in so they can know who you are?
But I mean... of all the privacy invading pieces of tech I can think of, a representation of the floorplan of my house might be the least concerning. Considering I'm typing this within range of at least a dozen potentially always-on microphones and cameras, and have no idea where my keystrokes are actually going.
All current Roomba models [1] have wifi and app support. The app requires an account because it's the type where even when you're at home on the same network as the Roomba, the app doesn't actually talk directly to the Roomba, but goes out through iRobot's servers. Not sure about other models, but on the 980 that I have, the app is necessary to use the full functionality.
As much as I don't care for my data being sold like this, a lot of it is out there already. Public tax records contain many differnt bits of information about your house: room count, square footage, age, etc. Additionally, private companies typically track this information for entire apartment complexes including actual room layouts.
Source: work in real estate industry. Apartment floor plans are typically used to determine competitive pricing.
In my neighborhood, most of the houses were built from a fixed number of designs sourced from an architecture firm. Wouldn't the floor plans be the IP of the architect?
Good question. IANAL, but i would imagine the floor plan is public record. If, someone were to build a new building using a previous designed floor plan, I can see how that could be an issue. But that's not even whats going on here. they aren't using the ACTUAL plans that the architect drafted - they're making their own map, which is akin to taking photos of the space. Like how record companies can own a recording but not a song. Where you get it from matters.
But, not a lawyer. Curious what others make of it.
A floorplan is just a diagram showing factual data about a house, facts can't be copyright.
If you copy the architects drawings to make the floorplan then copyright may apply, however.
If the floorplan itself had intrinsic worth as a substantial piece of creative art, then maybe, just maybe you'd have a case. But the defence of "i measured the walls in my house and drew a plan" (using a computer, for example) should be watertight.
I would assume so, but iRobot will not be copying the original floor plans, so that is not relevant. iRobot will be creating their own floor plans based on their own measurements acquired from customers' Roombas.
Nonesense, obviously the money is in selling recorded conversations to the highest bidder. Identifying spending patterns via image recognition of pets and babies would be up there also.
> This smells like cheap and irresponsible journalism
Maybe, but it is still true and something most users probably won't pay attention to but probably should.
"This is all part of the larger quest for a few major companies to hoover up every bit of data about you that they can. Now, they want to know all about your living space"
Does anyone know if Neato has this in their terms?
TBH, if I could access a map of my home from Neato, and sketch problem areas I want it to remap, that would be very valuable for me. Or if I could sketch boundaries in software for it to ignore vs. using tape, that would be way better.
My home is my office, and it's constantly changing. Furniture gets moved every week, and there's always...stuff laying everywhere. I don't imagine a map of my home being very useful.
Capitalism is supposed to be an equitable trade for BOTH sides of the transaction. I am also quite certain a socialist government would be happy to have this information.
[+] [-] andrewstuart2|8 years ago|reply
That's one blatant ignoring of the CEO's full statement, and one unfounded misinterpretation of the terms of service. Hardly justification for both the title and the premise of the article.
[+] [-] bisRepetita|8 years ago|reply
If iRobot agrees that AMZ buys 0.01% of the company, AMZ they get that info and customers already agreed to it. The CEO can now safely say what he said.
[+] [-] givinguflac|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] _Codemonkeyism|8 years ago|reply
I appreciate your optimism, but this is or will be probably part of ToS when registering the app and you can't use the Roomba without "aggreeing to share".
[+] [-] tambourine_man|8 years ago|reply
Of course it does, it's Gizmodo.
[+] [-] kafkaesq|8 years ago|reply
As if anyone reads those things.
[+] [-] jjcm|8 years ago|reply
I really want to see a subscription system that rewards quality over just views.
[+] [-] raldi|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mabbo|8 years ago|reply
I have a top-end Roomba bought last year. Every time it runs, it starts by finding a wall and then carefully learning the spacial layout of my home. It then efficiently cleans the entire area, not going over any spot more than once if it can avoid it. Then it goes back to it's home and forgets everything in learned forever.
You can sell the layout to my home to anyone you like Roomba, just for god's sake, have your damn robot remember that layout between cleaning sessions.
[+] [-] golemotron|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] stevula|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] koyote|8 years ago|reply
I remember seeing Roombas a couple of years ago and they were very 'dumb' compared to the Neato. Even the top-end model used a pretty basic wall following algorithm whereas the Neato uses laser to scan the room. Do the new, top-end, Roombas not also use a laser now?
[+] [-] monksy|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] aphextron|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] untog|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tareqak|8 years ago|reply
http://gizmodo.com/roombas-next-big-step-is-selling-maps-of-...
Roomba's Next Big Step Is Selling Maps of Your Home to the Highest Bidder
2. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14842705 (this thread)
http://gizmodo.com/roombas-next-big-step-is-selling-maps-of-...
Roomba's Next Big Step Is Selling Maps of Your Home to the Highest Bidder
3. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14842822
https://www.theverge.com/2017/7/24/16021610/irobot-roomba-ho...
Roombas have been busy mapping our homes, and now that data could be up for sale
Other sources: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-irobot-strategy-idUSKBN1A...
Roomba vacuum maker iRobot betting big on the 'smart' home
(Techmeme headline for the above: Roomba vacuum maker iRobot hopes to sell its users' floor plan data, seeking deals with Amazon, Apple, and Alphabet (I couldn't submit this Reuters source to HN).
Edit: formatting
[+] [-] Anatidae|8 years ago|reply
On a side note, anyone know of any other appliance manufacturers selling mapping data for customer's walls. Specifically locations of room safes? Just curious.
[+] [-] FridgeSeal|8 years ago|reply
I guess everything that's remotely network capable these days should be kept off the internet until it proves that it needs to - how do you ensure that it's not sending extra data back home without manually intercepting and inspecting all it's network traffic when it does connect?
[+] [-] jasonkostempski|8 years ago|reply
The "need" is arbitrarily added to all kinds of things already. If the thing makes money collecting data, it will be required to operate.
[+] [-] lucaspiller|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] freehunter|8 years ago|reply
But I mean... of all the privacy invading pieces of tech I can think of, a representation of the floorplan of my house might be the least concerning. Considering I'm typing this within range of at least a dozen potentially always-on microphones and cameras, and have no idea where my keystrokes are actually going.
[+] [-] Merad|8 years ago|reply
[1]: http://www.irobot.com/For-the-Home/Vacuuming/Roomba.aspx#Com...
[+] [-] d-sc|8 years ago|reply
Source: work in real estate industry. Apartment floor plans are typically used to determine competitive pricing.
[+] [-] nhebb|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] meesterdude|8 years ago|reply
But, not a lawyer. Curious what others make of it.
[+] [-] pbhjpbhj|8 years ago|reply
If you copy the architects drawings to make the floorplan then copyright may apply, however.
If the floorplan itself had intrinsic worth as a substantial piece of creative art, then maybe, just maybe you'd have a case. But the defence of "i measured the walls in my house and drew a plan" (using a computer, for example) should be watertight.
[+] [-] oftenwrong|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] yakult|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] foobarhonest|8 years ago|reply
Maybe, but it is still true and something most users probably won't pay attention to but probably should.
"This is all part of the larger quest for a few major companies to hoover up every bit of data about you that they can. Now, they want to know all about your living space"
[+] [-] shostack|8 years ago|reply
TBH, if I could access a map of my home from Neato, and sketch problem areas I want it to remap, that would be very valuable for me. Or if I could sketch boundaries in software for it to ignore vs. using tape, that would be way better.
[+] [-] Overtonwindow|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] z3t4|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rodgerd|8 years ago|reply
Thanks, capitalism!
[+] [-] protomyth|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] MichaelMoser123|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jjcm|8 years ago|reply