TBH the approach Muzmatch seems to be based on seems rather interesting.
-: Completely privacy (nickname and pictures hidden), particularly from family. (Family shame)
-: GPS validation, selfie verification etc. (Anti-catfishing)
-: Walis, or guardians in on the chat. (Family approval)
-: Rewards for good behaviour. (Anti abuse & dick pic behaviour)
It's impressive, culturally, but as a father of a 13 year old girl, some of these features appeal. Yes I am protective because I've seen how bad men can be on dating sites. However I recognise I have no right to impose myself on her privacy. Yes, educate her about the darker side of online dating. Yes, be that friend that does not judge and is there to support her. BUT no, do not control her. That is simply wrong. I love the fact my daughter has an independent spirit and does, rightly, stand up to me when she feels she is right and feels comfortable talking to me about pretty much anything (or her mum ;) ). Most importantly we trust her and give her the privacy she cherishes.
The thing is these dating apps are for 18+ year olds and that is when this logically fails for me. What right do I have to control an adult in such a way?
As an aside, about being a father. When my daughter was born I spoke to my neighbour who had two 18 & 19 year old girls. I asked him how it all works. His answer was "You have them until they are 14, and then you are there to pick up the pieces."
The other night I took a taxi home and started talking to the driver. He mentioned his 13 year old daughter was only allowed a basic phone and 1 hour of Facebook, observed, every night, just in case. I was surprised. I just regularly ensure my daughter knows about the various dangers and that she can always talk to us. I've seen this too many times though. Parents blocking porn web sites, then me hopping onto their computer and showing them porn on twitter.
Anyway getting back onto Muzmatch. I suspect it is a good cultural match, where the idea that women/men cannot be trusted and must be controlled, but still providing the ability for women/men to hide their identity from their own family and friends to prevent that control.
> Completely privacy (nickname and pictures hidden), particularly from family. (Family shame)
...
> Walis, or guardians in on the chat. (Family approval)
...
> The thing is these dating apps are for 18+ year olds and that is when this logically fails for me. What right do I have to control an adult in such a way?
It is not about you enforcing this on your daughter. The religion demands it. So if the app also facilitates that, it will appeal more to the target audience.
It is so disappointing to see a YC startup directed only to a particular religion. Where I come from (India) there are things like if you belong to religion X then you cannot go to temple of religion Y during prayers, etc. But we regard those policies as regressive and are trying to remove them.
And regarding the idea that Muslims are looking for marriage and not for casual encounters, it is possible to achieve it without focusing on religion aspect. For example, in India websites like shaadi.com (shaadi literally means marriage) are used as dating websites where participants know that they plan to marry in near future.
Also, I would expect VCs with supposedly liberal beliefs to stand for inter-religion marriages as they are much more dangerous (seriously, you can get killed for it) and not for an app "where single muslims meet".
It's a (large) niche market with specific needs that aren't met by traditional dating sites. Why is building a product to cater to those needs bad or wrong?
If I'm a Muslim and I want to date/marry a Muslim and there are a lot of things I have to solve for as a result of that, it makes a whole lot of sense that technology help me solve for those things.
This maybe your Indian bias showing where communal issues are a little more fiery. Religion based dating/relationship sites are fairly common in America and a lucrative business [1][2]. Not sure why we should suddenly start getting worried just when Muslims build their own as well. Seems like a sound investment from YC's POV.
Shaadi.com owns a number of related websites targeted at particular Indian communities. I live in Kolkata and ads for bengalimatrimony.com are everywhere (in a manner of speaking).
Agreed. Frankly I should think that many Muslims would find this entire notion offensive. Just because someone is Muslim doesn't mean they (a) necessarily want to find a muslim partner (b) have family with backward and regressive views (c) live in a society with backward and regressive views (d) want to support the continuation of backward and regressive views
IMHO in many traditional societies young people want to shake off the controlling habits of former generations and such an app would actually be a concrete step backwards.
(Full disclosure: My wife is Chinese muslim, and we have muslim friends in Australia, India, Indonesia, Thailand, Tunisia, UK, etc. I am personally irreligious.)
I can't see it working, dating sites aren't for people who get married quickly. They, as every site, need users stick for years, or LTV will be too low and not cover the UAC. So, it should be casual dating as in: 7000 contacts and 200 met in person over 12 years (me on mamba.ru). Users like me are definitely very profitable. Users who see 100 profiles, chat with 20, and get married and leave, aren't.
What is the LTV of a user like you? match.com charges ~$20 per year. How many years are you planning to use it (or any other dating website / app) for?
You are missing a key point here - this is a matchmaking app masquerading as a dating app. So they can extract a lot more value from a customer despite their brief tenure on the app.
Even though a bunch of startup blog posts say not to make a dating service it looks like they have had great success with this. This isn't a tinder for Muslims its more like a hip Christian Mingle for Muslims. Dating verticals seem to be easier to figure out than the general one. Also, stressing marriage and long commitment is better.
Also, this is great marketing for Muzmatch by techcrunch. Title entices people for engagement, statements enforce the values of the people that will use the service and the purpose / mission statement is well mixed by the central thesis.
For every hit like Tinder, there are a hundred dead dating apps that never got enough traction to take off or couldn't nail down the brutal acquire-retain-monetize math. Tinder's greatest "growth hack" is that it's used for hookups. They don't lose two users every time they make a successful match.
That's why people say to not start a dating service, because the base fundamentals are terrible. You need a tremendous advantage in acquisition or retention to survive.
> Younas — a young Muslim in London — bootstrapped and built the initial app himself [...] he plans monetizing beyond the business of matching by offering related services, such as, for example, helping users find a wedding venue.
In London there is a parallel legal system that does run counter to British law. Here hidden-camera footage how a "Muslim judge" suggests to a woman, she should just accept being beaten on a regular basis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gZCFdHkd4A
Hence, counseling or after-marriage check-ins with the women whether they are threated well would be a real help.
>"Not just market size — we’re more than 100 times larger market than the Jewish market, for example — but the real difference is the seriousness and intent."
Is that not kind of self-righteous and condescending? What is the implication, that people from other religious groups or those without religious affiliations somehow aren't serious about meeting someone? Or that their intentions are not quite as sincere? Why is this somehow their exclusive domain?
> So, for example, all users have to take a selfie via the app so their profile can be manually verified to help boost trust and keep out spammers; users don’t have to provide their real name though, and can choose not to display photos on their profiles or blur photos unless there’s an active match. Users are also asked to rate others they have interacted with — and these ratings are fed into the matching algorithm, with the aim of surfacing “quality users” and promoting positive behaviors.
All of this sounds like a big improvement on Tinder. I'm not Muslim, but I'd try a dating site that worked like this. They should open it up but allow users to restrict to the Muslim subset if they choose.
Anecdote but for some reason when I signed up to Minder (actually is a Muslim Tinder) when I was drunk, for some reason it thought I was a woman (probably because also drunk at previous date I'd selected female pronouns on Facebook), so in an interesting turn of events, the Muslim dating app was suggesting I date men.
Well, too bad. Look what happened to ChristianMingle. From what I hear, most of the men on there aren't even Christian, they're just cruising for what they think is an easy lay.
[+] [-] awjr|8 years ago|reply
-: Completely privacy (nickname and pictures hidden), particularly from family. (Family shame)
-: GPS validation, selfie verification etc. (Anti-catfishing)
-: Walis, or guardians in on the chat. (Family approval)
-: Rewards for good behaviour. (Anti abuse & dick pic behaviour)
It's impressive, culturally, but as a father of a 13 year old girl, some of these features appeal. Yes I am protective because I've seen how bad men can be on dating sites. However I recognise I have no right to impose myself on her privacy. Yes, educate her about the darker side of online dating. Yes, be that friend that does not judge and is there to support her. BUT no, do not control her. That is simply wrong. I love the fact my daughter has an independent spirit and does, rightly, stand up to me when she feels she is right and feels comfortable talking to me about pretty much anything (or her mum ;) ). Most importantly we trust her and give her the privacy she cherishes.
The thing is these dating apps are for 18+ year olds and that is when this logically fails for me. What right do I have to control an adult in such a way?
As an aside, about being a father. When my daughter was born I spoke to my neighbour who had two 18 & 19 year old girls. I asked him how it all works. His answer was "You have them until they are 14, and then you are there to pick up the pieces."
The other night I took a taxi home and started talking to the driver. He mentioned his 13 year old daughter was only allowed a basic phone and 1 hour of Facebook, observed, every night, just in case. I was surprised. I just regularly ensure my daughter knows about the various dangers and that she can always talk to us. I've seen this too many times though. Parents blocking porn web sites, then me hopping onto their computer and showing them porn on twitter.
Anyway getting back onto Muzmatch. I suspect it is a good cultural match, where the idea that women/men cannot be trusted and must be controlled, but still providing the ability for women/men to hide their identity from their own family and friends to prevent that control.
[+] [-] shakkhar|8 years ago|reply
It is not about you enforcing this on your daughter. The religion demands it. So if the app also facilitates that, it will appeal more to the target audience.
[+] [-] virtuabhi|8 years ago|reply
And regarding the idea that Muslims are looking for marriage and not for casual encounters, it is possible to achieve it without focusing on religion aspect. For example, in India websites like shaadi.com (shaadi literally means marriage) are used as dating websites where participants know that they plan to marry in near future.
Also, I would expect VCs with supposedly liberal beliefs to stand for inter-religion marriages as they are much more dangerous (seriously, you can get killed for it) and not for an app "where single muslims meet".
[+] [-] austenallred|8 years ago|reply
If I'm a Muslim and I want to date/marry a Muslim and there are a lot of things I have to solve for as a result of that, it makes a whole lot of sense that technology help me solve for those things.
[+] [-] pj_mukh|8 years ago|reply
[1] https://www.christianmingle.com/
[2] https://www.jdate.com/en-us
P.S: I am also Indian.
[+] [-] raverbashing|8 years ago|reply
I don't see what's the problem. It makes perfect sense to me
Temples of any religion are usually not public grounds and can enforce visitation rules.
[+] [-] mrkgnao|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] chimeracoder|8 years ago|reply
Those policies exist all across the US and Europe as well, as well as the rest of the world. It's not limited to India.
[+] [-] jgh|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] computerex|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] angersock|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wyager|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] contingencies|8 years ago|reply
IMHO in many traditional societies young people want to shake off the controlling habits of former generations and such an app would actually be a concrete step backwards.
(Full disclosure: My wife is Chinese muslim, and we have muslim friends in Australia, India, Indonesia, Thailand, Tunisia, UK, etc. I am personally irreligious.)
[+] [-] unknown|8 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] anovikov|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] shakkhar|8 years ago|reply
What is the LTV of a user like you? match.com charges ~$20 per year. How many years are you planning to use it (or any other dating website / app) for?
You are missing a key point here - this is a matchmaking app masquerading as a dating app. So they can extract a lot more value from a customer despite their brief tenure on the app.
[+] [-] bookmarkacc|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] whipoodle|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gurubavan|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] zitterbewegung|8 years ago|reply
Also, this is great marketing for Muzmatch by techcrunch. Title entices people for engagement, statements enforce the values of the people that will use the service and the purpose / mission statement is well mixed by the central thesis.
[+] [-] teej|8 years ago|reply
That's why people say to not start a dating service, because the base fundamentals are terrible. You need a tremendous advantage in acquisition or retention to survive.
[+] [-] avip|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] s3nnyy|8 years ago|reply
In London there is a parallel legal system that does run counter to British law. Here hidden-camera footage how a "Muslim judge" suggests to a woman, she should just accept being beaten on a regular basis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gZCFdHkd4A
Hence, counseling or after-marriage check-ins with the women whether they are threated well would be a real help.
[+] [-] bogomipz|8 years ago|reply
>"Not just market size — we’re more than 100 times larger market than the Jewish market, for example — but the real difference is the seriousness and intent."
Is that not kind of self-righteous and condescending? What is the implication, that people from other religious groups or those without religious affiliations somehow aren't serious about meeting someone? Or that their intentions are not quite as sincere? Why is this somehow their exclusive domain?
[+] [-] EGreg|8 years ago|reply
"I think some people think it’s just like JCrush for Jews. But it’s totally not about that from where we stand."
I think they are implying Muslims are proportionally less promiscuous than Jews. I wonder if this is so :)
Orthodox Jews don't even touch ther dates until marriage!
[+] [-] hedgew|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bogomipz|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] comnetxr|8 years ago|reply
All of this sounds like a big improvement on Tinder. I'm not Muslim, but I'd try a dating site that worked like this. They should open it up but allow users to restrict to the Muslim subset if they choose.
[+] [-] Grue3|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] antihero|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bogomipz|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hkon|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] becga|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] moretai|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bitwize|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] whipoodle|8 years ago|reply
Maybe others think that view of religion is closed-minded. :)
[+] [-] dang|8 years ago|reply
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14920276 and marked it off-topic.
[+] [-] Chris2048|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] alexdrans|8 years ago|reply