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jerrylives | 8 years ago

It was a war started to invade a nation with whom we made a treaty (Treaty of Fort Laramie) to respect their sovereignty. So, we broke the treaty which is illegal and then we proceeded to plunder their sacred lands in the name of God and gold.

discuss

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clock_tower|8 years ago

Speaking as a Catholic, I have no idea how people can break a treaty and think they're fighting for God. Isn't He traditionally called to witness that treaties will be kept sacrosanct?

eesmith|8 years ago

Here's the relevant treaty: http://www.pbs.org/weta/thewest/resources/archives/four/ftla... .

Not one mention of God.

TREATY WITH THE OTTAWA, ETC., 1821 - http://www.kansasheritage.org/PBP/books/treaties/t_1821.html . No mention of God, outside of a "in the year of our Lord".

Treaty With The Osage, 1825 - https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Treaty_With_The_Osage,_1825 only mentions "in the year of our Lord" and doesn't otherwise mention God.

Fort Bridger Treaty of 1868 - https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Fort_Bridger_Treaty_of_1868 has three "year of our Lord"s but otherwise no mention of God.

Moving now toward treaties with European nations:

Jay's Treaty (1794, with Britain) - https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Jay%27s_Treaty mentions God once, in a parenthetical note "If at any Time a Rupture should take place (which God forbid) between His Majesty and the United States ..." Otherwise, no mention of God.

Pinckney's_Treaty (1795, with Spain) - https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Pinckney%27s_Treaty again has no mention of God.

Treaty of Tripoli (1786) - https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Tripoli doesn't call on God. This is the one which (in the English text ratified by the US Senate) famously says "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries." It is therefore unlikely to call on God as a witness.

Louisiana Purchase Treaty (1803, France) - https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Louisiana_Purchase_Treaty . No mention of God.

Where do you get your idea that treaties traditionally call on God as a witness?

EDIT: I looked for non-US treaties, but couldn't find the text for the Treaty of Aix-La-Chapelle or the Treaty of Åbo, which were the first I looked for. I then chose British treaties:

Treaty of Seville ("between the Crowns of Great Britain, France, and Spain, concluded at Seville on the 9th of November, N. S. 1729") - https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Seville . That one has "In the Name of the most Holy Trinity, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, three distinct Persons, and one only true God." and is made between "THEIR most Serene Majesties the King of Great Britain, the most Christian King, and the Catholic King". Otherwise, no mention of God as a witness to ensure the peace.

The closest I found was in the Treaty of Utrecht (1713) - https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Peace_and_Friendship_Treaty_o... has many references to God, including "But if (which God forbid) the disputes which are composed should at any time be renewed between their said Royal Majesties". The text "God forbid" was also used in two clauses regarding what happens should a royal not having children in the line of succession, so even this isn't quite the same as a "witness that treaties will be kept sacrosanct".