For those that are curious, as an early investor and advocate for clean meat, I wrote about my experience eating Memphis Meats' products and why their solution is so much better than convention meat production: https://medium.com/@sethbannon/i-just-ate-meat-for-the-first...
Since you seem to know people in this industry, can you encourage them to put phosphorus numbers on nutrition labels. Currently they are not required by law. People like I with a failing kidney need to watch our phosphorus levels but still consume high amounts of protein. Knowing this little bit of information would open up a new food options for us.
It is impressive that despite not eating meat for 20 years you feel you are in a good position to talk about the realism of the meat product you have invested in.
This, crispr, and self driving cars are my favorite up and coming innovations that just seem mind boggling and that will make a profound impact in our lives. I think it is realistic to see widespread use of all 3 in the next decade.
The social media, apps, cloud, big data, and phone innovations have been neat but I'm looking forward to disruptions in non tech arenas. Space, electric and hydrogen fuel cell cars, so many fascinating things up and coming.
This is just like when the British Parliament approved GMOs in the UK and on the same day officially forbid GMO foods from being served in the Parliament restaurant.
BTW I know the guy who was the head of the team who invented the GMO technology. He and his family and relatives only eat the cleanest, best quality ORGANIC food they can find.
Beyond Meat gets name-checked in the article, but I want to emphasize that their burgers are pretty good: https://jakeseliger.com/2017/08/23/beyond-meat-burgers-are-p... and in my view underappreciated right now. If you've not tried them yet, you ought to.
I love how highly, highly processed foods are suddenly A-OK to many people here once it's a fake meat product. Whatever happened to the concept of, "Eat real food?"
I shouldn't even have to post about "Textured Wheat Protein" but it's essentially another denatured protein, one that is completely doused in glyphosate right before harvest. That's the main ingredient of these "burgers."
>But high-temperature processing has the unfortunate side effect of so denaturing the other proteins in soy that they are rendered largely ineffective.23 That's why animals on soy feed need lysine supplements for normal growth.
>Nitrites, which are potent carcinogens, are formed during spray-drying, and a toxin called lysinoalanine is formed during alkaline processing.24 Numerous artificial flavorings, particularly MSG, are added to soy protein isolate and textured vegetable protein products to mask their strong "beany" taste and to impart the flavor of meat.25
>In feeding experiments, the use of SPI increased requirements for vitamins E, K, D, and B12 and created deficiency symptoms of calcium, magnesium, manganese, molybdenum, copper, iron, and zinc.26 Phytic acid remaining in these soy products greatly inhibits zinc and iron absorption; test animals fed SPI develop enlarged organs, particularly the pancreas and thyroid gland, and increased deposition of fatty acids in the liver.27
I'm sure it tastes just fine, but at something like $16/lb for a hamburger substitute that puts it on the same price level as prime grade ribeye or tenderloin.
It's really unfortunate all the meat "alternatives" take the organic/healthy but huge premium approach as this makes it very inaccessible to your standard consumer. Maybe for 6+ figure earning HNers it's not an issue but for the majority of the country it is.
The cat food smell when you cook them is for real. I noticed it independently, and it turns out plenty of people had already observed this. I wonder if this will hinder mass adoption -- it really did make my apartment smell strange! They tasted great though.
And I kind of don't see how Memphis Meat can possibly compete with Impossible Burger (or other companies that can produce meat-like products from vegetables + industrial processing).
Today Memphis Meat costs "several thousand" per pound and generates literal pounds of meat. It's a pre-alpha prototype.
Impossible Burger's ground beef costs "comparable to organic beef" and are scaling production to a million pounds of meat per month. They've shipped and are increasing velocity.
As a counter-counter-point, I recently tried the Impossible burger, and while it's amazing, it's not remotely close to real meat. And that's in ground-beef-covered-with-cheese-and-sauce-and-toppings form. Impossible vs a great steak or some grilled salmon? No way.
Lab grown meat is the industry I'd pick if I had to pick where the next rags to world's richest person will come from.
Can it be scaled & beat conventional slaughter economically? I'm betting that it can. And it will disrupt a 100B+ annual industry.
> Can it be scaled & beat conventional slaughter economically? I'm betting that it can.
I'm really skeptical of this. Feels like a "multiple PhDs later..." kind of problem. Is there are a reason why you think the research won't hit any roadblocks? And even if it succeeds, there could be insurmountable marketing issues.
In the meantime, it's bad for vegetarianism. Meat eaters saying "why bother changing my diet, when lab grown meat will be here soon?"
We need to eat more plants. We need to travel fewer miles. We need to dump less potable water into the sea. We need to throw away less packaging and stuff. We can't always wait for the perfect 1:1 replacement eco-technology. We also need to figure out how to change our culture.
People all over the world learned how to survive just fine without without eating a half pound of flesh per day. Why are we clinging to these practices?
I think this is great. The current way food is produced in America (and other places) is not sustainable for either environmental or moral reasons. Take your pick.
It's great but if it really works, isn't there a concern about the existence of our beloved domestic animals?
All domestic cattle nowadays descends from the Auroch, which is extinct. The Auroch disappeared because we did not need it as it was. It was hunted down as tend to be all large animals that can not be domesticated.
If we don't need cows, pigs, sheep and whatnot, isn't there a risk they will fade away?
When we invented cars, the domestic horse kept existing because it still has recreational use. Is there a recreational use for cows?
Ever hear of deer? We eat them, too, and even domestic ag as well. They also aren't "needed" and even tend to cause environmental issues of their own in the wild in certain areas. As expected, they also are recreationally hunted and regulated as such in each state that has a reasonable population of deer.
So, in short, no, I don't think they'd go away or become extinct, not in the slightest. Declining numbers of them over time? Probably but extinct? No way.
I think it's incredibly naive of people to assume that we can artificially replicate a food natural source. So much is unknown about the stomach microbiome and such things that I will be staying far away from this and the likes of Soylent for a long time.
I think it's safer, probably harder to get mad cow disease or salmonella, don't you think? Also, today we get it from animals pumped full of antibiotics, hormones living in their own excrement.
I do wonder though if this lab-grow meat will be allowed to be called meat, since there was a strange ruling about Vegan dairy products[0].
It seems that this is less likely to receive such a treatment, since it's much closer to the actual thing in terms of composition, but beyond Meat might be given a harder time there, since their product is plant-based...
A lot of investors are interested in Memphis Meat. From what I understand, people have been trying to grow meat in laboratories for decades. Does MM have some special technology?
Actually, the first (IIRC) lab-grown burger was served 4 years ago in Maastricht, The Netherlands, by a company called Mosa Meat, back then already backed by Gates. A quick google finds https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/08/bill-gates-and-richa... on that investment, but I'm sure there's more. I think they got the price down a few hundreds per burger by now, still a way to go obviously, but there are many in-vitro research groups in Europe.
While I am a meat/fish-eater, I have not eaten store- purchased meat in decades and I will never eat lab-produced food. What a great way for innovative evil people to kill millions. Be careful what you wish for...very careful
[+] [-] sethbannon|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pkaye|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] inciampati|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mmisu|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] edison85|8 years ago|reply
The social media, apps, cloud, big data, and phone innovations have been neat but I'm looking forward to disruptions in non tech arenas. Space, electric and hydrogen fuel cell cars, so many fascinating things up and coming.
[+] [-] aswanson|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hliyan|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] torpilla|8 years ago|reply
This is just like when the British Parliament approved GMOs in the UK and on the same day officially forbid GMO foods from being served in the Parliament restaurant.
BTW I know the guy who was the head of the team who invented the GMO technology. He and his family and relatives only eat the cleanest, best quality ORGANIC food they can find.
[+] [-] tonmoy|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bananicorn|8 years ago|reply
He states fair points, as far as I can see.
[+] [-] sweep4r|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] saiya-jin|8 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] jseliger|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Danihan|8 years ago|reply
Full Ingredient List:
>Water, Textured Wheat Protein, Coconut Oil, Potato Protein, Natural Flavors, 2% or less of: Leghemoglobin (soy), Yeast Extract, Salt, Soy Protein Isolate, Konjac Gum, Xanthan Gum, Thiamin (Vitamin B1), Zinc, Niacin, Vitamin B6, Riboflavin (Vitamin B2), Vitamin B12.
I shouldn't even have to post about "Textured Wheat Protein" but it's essentially another denatured protein, one that is completely doused in glyphosate right before harvest. That's the main ingredient of these "burgers."
Check out the chart on page two...
http://people.csail.mit.edu/seneff/ITX_2013_06_04_Seneff.pdf
These "vegan" foods are nowhere near healthy.
Then there's Soy Protein Isolate:
>But high-temperature processing has the unfortunate side effect of so denaturing the other proteins in soy that they are rendered largely ineffective.23 That's why animals on soy feed need lysine supplements for normal growth.
>Nitrites, which are potent carcinogens, are formed during spray-drying, and a toxin called lysinoalanine is formed during alkaline processing.24 Numerous artificial flavorings, particularly MSG, are added to soy protein isolate and textured vegetable protein products to mask their strong "beany" taste and to impart the flavor of meat.25
>In feeding experiments, the use of SPI increased requirements for vitamins E, K, D, and B12 and created deficiency symptoms of calcium, magnesium, manganese, molybdenum, copper, iron, and zinc.26 Phytic acid remaining in these soy products greatly inhibits zinc and iron absorption; test animals fed SPI develop enlarged organs, particularly the pancreas and thyroid gland, and increased deposition of fatty acids in the liver.27
http://www.mercola.com/article/soy/avoid_soy.htm
[+] [-] nightski|8 years ago|reply
It's really unfortunate all the meat "alternatives" take the organic/healthy but huge premium approach as this makes it very inaccessible to your standard consumer. Maybe for 6+ figure earning HNers it's not an issue but for the majority of the country it is.
[+] [-] emmp|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rglover|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] leovander|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kjksf|8 years ago|reply
And I kind of don't see how Memphis Meat can possibly compete with Impossible Burger (or other companies that can produce meat-like products from vegetables + industrial processing).
Today Memphis Meat costs "several thousand" per pound and generates literal pounds of meat. It's a pre-alpha prototype.
Impossible Burger's ground beef costs "comparable to organic beef" and are scaling production to a million pounds of meat per month. They've shipped and are increasing velocity.
[+] [-] ryanwaggoner|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nkkollaw|8 years ago|reply
As a new tech it will cost a lot (like computers once did, now you can get one for $5), but the price will eventually go down.
Perhaps my generation won't enjoy fake meat like a real steak just because of the idea, but younger people won't mind.
Personally, I'll take anything that can stop killing all those animals to then throw away huge quantities (if unsold).
[+] [-] sethbannon|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] grizzles|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] erikpukinskis|8 years ago|reply
I'm really skeptical of this. Feels like a "multiple PhDs later..." kind of problem. Is there are a reason why you think the research won't hit any roadblocks? And even if it succeeds, there could be insurmountable marketing issues.
In the meantime, it's bad for vegetarianism. Meat eaters saying "why bother changing my diet, when lab grown meat will be here soon?"
We need to eat more plants. We need to travel fewer miles. We need to dump less potable water into the sea. We need to throw away less packaging and stuff. We can't always wait for the perfect 1:1 replacement eco-technology. We also need to figure out how to change our culture.
People all over the world learned how to survive just fine without without eating a half pound of flesh per day. Why are we clinging to these practices?
[+] [-] adamnemecek|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] issa|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] grondilu|8 years ago|reply
All domestic cattle nowadays descends from the Auroch, which is extinct. The Auroch disappeared because we did not need it as it was. It was hunted down as tend to be all large animals that can not be domesticated.
If we don't need cows, pigs, sheep and whatnot, isn't there a risk they will fade away?
When we invented cars, the domestic horse kept existing because it still has recreational use. Is there a recreational use for cows?
[+] [-] fredsted|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] speby|8 years ago|reply
So, in short, no, I don't think they'd go away or become extinct, not in the slightest. Declining numbers of them over time? Probably but extinct? No way.
[+] [-] vbuwivbiu|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mmisu|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] drcross|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dsego|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dexterdog|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bananicorn|8 years ago|reply
It seems that this is less likely to receive such a treatment, since it's much closer to the actual thing in terms of composition, but beyond Meat might be given a harder time there, since their product is plant-based...
[0] https://www.just-food.com/news/eu-court-of-justice-rules-aga...
[+] [-] woodandsteel|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Pxtl|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] shadykiller|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jamesmattis|8 years ago|reply
India could become a huge market for the plant protein meat.
Beyondmeat is one great example.
[+] [-] coldtea|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Raz2|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] roel_v|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] josephmerz|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sunshiney|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] surrey-fringe|8 years ago|reply