I think this is a huge problem and one that is going to continue and get worse. How is it the banks were the ones at fault, but the customers are paying for it. They just hide behind AML / Knowing your customer and say talk to your MP.
I was locked out of internet banking for my business account with Lloyds for over 3 months due to a technical fault in the way it was setup. Was paid compensation in the end, but already had moved to another bank. They could not have cared less.
Some people will say no smoke without fire, but if you read on moneysavingexpert about people being locked out of their personal accounts for the same reason. Any transfer that is slightly different from your day to day will be flagged and risk having your account locked for weeks / months on end.
It happens more than we realise. A bit like winning the lottery, it could be you :(
The further we go down the road of electronic payments, and a cashless society it could get really messy.
The only way to solve in the short term is to spread the risk across many banks, and never keep your money in one place. Keep hold of some cash!
I have to pay for my linodes on the gf's credit card because HSBC randomly lock my card for suspicious payments.
That payment has gone on the same day of the month to the same place since 2009 and they still randomly do it. Last time was three days before Christmas.
> The only way to solve in the short term is to spread the risk across many banks, and never keep your money in one place.
This is always good advice, and when you reach the maximum amount for which an account is insured (100K or thereabouts) it is an absolute must. I have my funds spread over five accounts just in case and make sure you note the legal differences between savings accounts and current accounts, the latter may not be insured in case the bank folds depending on where you are.
I think part of the problem is banks don't make much money from the average account outside of fees. I would rather banks just charged say 20$ a month and had actual customer service instead of the mess big banks evolve into.
> How is it the banks were the ones at fault, but the customers are paying for it.
Market power. There are economies of scale in banks, so there are few banks which are huge and can generally afford to act shittily to their customers (unlike in competitive industries).
For the record, I don't think breaking up the banks or capping bank size will fundamentally solve the problem either.
That saved me in the 2007 crash, as one account of mine got frozen for a year. Just like it's a bad idea to put all of your investments into one stock.
After having similarly-frustrating things happen with my HSBC personal accounts over the years, I fully support this suggestion. They are awful. They take extreme steps (suspending accounts, rejecting payments, etc.) without contacting the customer; when you reach out to them, it's hours of being passed around before you reach the right person. If you reach a person at all.
Had HSBC screw over a co-worker. Someone, somehow, transferred money through his account. A fair sized amount, in and out within an hour.
He reported it and they suspended his account immediately while they investigated, which is fine. What wasn't fine was it took them well over a month to investigate, in the mean time all of his money was locked up tight and he was unable to access it, pay rent, buy lunch etc (we ended up shouting him for meals for a bit to help out until work organised an advance on his salary). In the end he really regretted 1) having all his money in a single account, and 2) ever having bothered telling HSBC about the transfer.
With all their bad press, I'm actually kind of surprised anyone would purposely open an account with them right now. I'm not even up-to-date on whatever crap they're pulling today, but they're on my mental list of "companies I keep hearing bad things about".
I bank with them and will continue to do so for a while.
years ago, they were the only bank to open an account with my history from another country. all other us banks had the same bullshit "you won't even have a credit card with us until you have credit history in the us, even though we have branches in the country you have history".
then they were the only ones offering investments with no administration fee and with returns above the monopoly of .5 point under official inflation. they were actually 1 point above.
but yeah, every time I travel and forget to tell them before, my card get lots locked. and they claim they didn't call me before locking because it was sleep hours in my home timezone, in case I wasn't really traveling.
also driving in the us, every time I stop in a motel 6 and such, locked card.
Their online banking is truly appalling, too. No full history of past payments to make a repeat payment easier. Weird distinction between 'current payments' (or whatever they call the default 'account' screen) and 'past statements' — seems like a hangover from the days when we used to get paper statements. Still a crazily short session timeout.
I would add to the list, but I can't login to my account at the moment since I don't have my bespoke HSBC 2FA physical device (despite having a far-superior, non-polluting equivalent on my phone...)
I think the chap has been incredibly calm about the whole thing. I'd be in my local branch every day refusing to leave until they take the necessary steps to re-open the account.
This really struck a nerve with me, as I've had similarly infuriating experiences with Natwest (though never to the point of my account being suspended).
Passed from one team to another -- and even witnessing colleagues from different teams argue with each other, not realising that I wasn't properly on mute... I wish I had it recorded.
Opening and administrating a simple small business bank account has been the single most unnecessarily difficult and frustrating thing about starting my own business.
It's why I'm so passionate about someone FINALLY disrupting the circle jerk of the mainstream banking industry and the organisational, bureaucratic and regulatory clusterfuck that it has become.
So, immediately get on the horn with your lawyer and have your lawyer on his letterhead send them a letter and if the response is not to your liking sue the bastards.
In the meantime set up another account with another bank and make sure all invoices that are pending but not yet paid are paid into that account and not into the HSBC account.
Then shift over all the monthly payments to the new account as funds appear.
Lawyers are expensive, and bank accounts have complicated T&Cs which basically say "We can do what we like, and fuck you."
You'll spend a fortune paying someone to argue some or all of the agreement is unenforceable.
I would suggest trying to get in contact with other businesses in the same boat. The UK doesn't have a formal class action suit mechanism, but there's nothing to stop you pooling your resources in a joint suit and suing for an eye-watering sum of common consequential losses.
My guess is that if you do that, HSBC will settle out of court by restoring your accounts and offering a "no-fault goodwill payment" to everyone.
At that point you can collectively choose to refuse the payment and fight the case all the way through.
Not sure if you're in the US? where that maybe possible. In the UK this is not that simple. Not even sure how you would sue them, their T&C would cover this under AML / Knowing your customer legislation. The problem is the knee jerk reaction from the government on stopping the bank's bad practices without thinking what happens, in reality, day to day.
You are not suing a poor guy who will not sleep because he received a letter from your lawyer. It goes to a complaint department which I am sure is as bureaucratic as the rest of the bank.
UK banks are ridiculous and they're hastening their own demise to challenger banks with attitudes likes this.
My bank (Barclays) suspended my account and blocked my cards after attempting to make a large payment.
It was £2000 to the Student Loans Company.
My account was a graduate account.
All of the clever machine learning anti-fraud algorithms in the world couldn't figure that one out.
I studied in the UK, lots of horror stories to tell:
# Name misspelled 4 times
* Santander: They spelled my name wrong on the debit card, 4 times in a row, with a different misspelling each time. Each time I had to go to the branch and type the correct spelling into a keyboard. They still got it wrong the next time. The 5th card was correct. I was without a working card for 3 months and had to pay everything in cash.
# Locked out after they sent money to somebody else
* Barclays: My flat mate paid me sublet rent. One of the transfer didn't arrive. When he checked, the money was sent to a completely different account number he had never entered (probably an off-by-one error in their code?). He called Barclays to correct the transfer. Instead of fixing the issue, they locked his account for 2 months, he couldn't pay any rent any more, he couldn't receive money from his parents to pay for rent or university fees.
# Ridiculous branch security
* Natwest: I'm at the branch with my friend. We're sitting directly in front of the clerk with her keyboard to her Windows computer in front of her. She unlocks the screen saver, 1-finger-typing the 5-character password (so I knew the password). Then she leaves us in the room alone for 10 minutes, not even locking the screen saver again. Also, the part of the PC where the keyboard is plugged into the USB is directly next to my right leg. It would be very easy to pop in a keylogger without anybody noticing (of course it has already been done: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/10322536/Barcla... and http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-santander-arrests/gang-held...). Later she asks my friend for a password. My friend looks at me, I put my fingers into my ears. Afterwards the clerk asks "why did you put your fingers into your ears?". I respond it was so I wouldn't learn my friend's password, obviously. She replies "Oh wow, that's cute!". Such is the qualification and training of those who safeguard your money.
# Preventing my card getting blocked abroad with Jedi tricks
* Santander: I'm abroad in Hungary with my UK debit card being the only one I have with me. After buying an 8£ ticket from ticket machine of the Hungarian public train transport MAV, I get an automated call from Santander to confirm whether a potentially fraudulent payment of 8£ is legit. I confirm. After a short while I receive a text that says my card is now blocked. I call Santander's support. They say my card is blocked because of a fraudulent transaction. I say I just confirmed that this transaction is not fraudulent, please unlock my card. They say "sorry, your card cannot be unlocked it has been marked with a red flag". After being stunned for a moment by this idiocy I say "so what, remove the flag then". "I can't do that Sir, we'll have to send you a new card to your UK address". I lose it with "You will not send me a new card, I am abroad and this card is the only one I can pay with here! You will unlock my card NOW!" (My inner self makes an Obi-Wan-esque hand guesture.) To my surprise, the answer is "OK, I'll check it with my boss", and shortly after "OK, card is unlocked. But we'll send you a new card in one month". I never received a new card.
I've never had any such problems with German and Swiss banks.
Barclays are intensively hiring developers for their fraud detection system at the moment - I've been approached several times but from what I can gather when I pressed them on remuneration they're looking to pay peanuts (relative to the skills required).
Reminds me of "Operation Chokepoint" where the U.S. federal government was able to persuade (not force) banks to cut off firearms dealers from their accounts in an effort to affect "unsavory businesses".
Another reason why I want to avoid a cashless society, at least in the way we're heading right now. Scary how quickly banks will cave in to pressure from the feds before any legal process even begins (if ever).
Also, can anyone tell me why the other reply to the parent is dead? It was a completely relevant response that, I assume, was downvoted because it mentioned something that Trump did in a positive way.
The presumption of guilt turns the entire concept of justice on its head. A 'cashless' society at best is one that ensures that only those at the top might get to enjoy the fruits of fraud and corruption.
I second not dealing with HSBC. They've been fined as mentioned in the article. They've also lost enormous amounts of data through mismanagement and to hackers, so have gone to the other extreme of "safeguarding" their data.
I put safeguarding in quotes because a couple years ago I was responsible for the technical aspects of the acquisition of a small fin. book from HSBC. They did a lot of absolute dictation of governance hurdles which they "enforced" - again the quotes, because they came to our offices and nodded wisely when I rattled through our list of safeguards. But very clearly didn't understand a thing about the controls we said we were using. They also didn't ask for any evidence of the controls. That really surprised me, after all the noise they'd made leading up to that meeting.
I don't rate them technically at all, so have to wonder what their business capability is like...
Not to pick on you particularly (this is just where I got to in the comments) but who _would_ you recommend instead for others trying to avoid this? Particularly for the UK, since a lot of the time the HN crowd is US-centric :)
When people tell me they don't "get" Bitcoin, this is exactly the sort of thing I have been looking for to try to explain it. Yes, it has problems and is still maturing, but no one can inexplicably just off your bank account like this.
Bitcoin can still be akin to keeping your life savings in the sock drawer. You still have to take steps to keep your holdings safe from a single point of failure and if you do get breached there's no legal recourse. You have nearly full control of your funds via bitcoin, but with that much control comes great responsibility to minimize risk that you normally expect a financial institution to do.
I've got coworkers and a friend who have been contacting coinbase for ~months because their funds have just disappeared into the ether. Deposited money, nothing showed up in their account. Apparently it's common, and they're just supposed to wait longer. I would guess that this is because just like you said, it has problems and is still maturing. But - doesn't that mean that coinbase could just off their accounts?
"Mt. Gox announced that approximately 850,000 bitcoins belonging to customers and the company were missing and likely stolen, an amount valued at more than $450 million at the time"
> Then Apple failed. This was a strange one — it appears you actually need a valid payment card associated with your Apple account or you cannot download free apps or update existing ones. Every time you try it just asks you to re-enter payment details. Not a show-stopper, but frustrating all the same.
Not true. They have a lot of dark patterns to make you think that but you don't actually need a payment account associated with your Apple ID. It's possible they've changed this since the last time I tried doing setting one up but you may need to go through the desktop interface rather than doing it directly on a iOS device.
At the moment banking is a total disaster. Personal accounts, under KYC disguise, are being questioned on "suspicious" £2-3k transactions sent between family members. Banks fraud altering systems are so inconceivably dumb, that they can't recognize two persons both having bank accounts at their same institution, both living on the same address as being part of a household, not to bother questioning them why they send cash to each other.(Lloyds Bank, UK).
Business banking is getting totally destroyed by fanatical and full of nonsense administration of KYC regulations, where banks want to verify not only the invoices and reasons for every transaction, but the underlying composition of every amount and how it was earned and why. And why the sum earned is higher, than what they think it should be. Their reviews of business models and revenue generation processes is more strict and intruding, than the figures some investors consider enough to provide business with funding.(Rietumu bank, Latvia).
At the same time many large European banks are losing their ability to transact in USD, after bank-correspondents are leaving them (Deutsche bank). SEPA transfers in EUR is what is left for many businesses as they are cut from making any international payments in non-EUR currency.
The situation is beyond worrying. I hope there are some sane banks left. Possibly smaller banks, friendly to online businesses, who realize that when you receive affiliate payments from Booking.com NV, you are not laundering money and it would be totally moronic to questions those transfers. Please comment if you can recommend such.
The story is very similar to what we experienced with HSBC exactly year ago. Its wrong on so many levels, in our case they sent us money via cheque so we got access to it in about 2 months. There is no point discussing anything with them, you are a small fish and have a business to run, not suing a bank or losing your focus on your main business.
Since HSBC kicked us out we have multiple banks and if things go wrong we just move to another one.
I am from India. A startup I was part of also had a bad experience with the bank. I can't go into the details but the bottom line is that the bank branch where we had our account was absolutely uncooperative. The problem was resolved after many days of mail writing, talking to phone banking and running after the branch people.
"what it was really doing was checking I’m not a drug cartel or rogue nation."
If they decide you are a drug cartel or rogue nation, you will be upgraded to Most Favoured Customer status and assigned a personal account manager. If requested the dimensions for the aperture of teller windows will be provided so you can custom manufacture boxes to fit the maximum amount of dirty cash through them in the shortest time possible.
You'll get the same treatment with the anti-fraud/kyc team at any bank. It's standard procedure to not disclose reasoning because it essentially helps fraudsters/criminals avoid checks.
There can also be legal restrictions on what they can tell you. For example if they think you're committing money laundering it can be a criminal offence ("tipping off") for them to tell you that why they're investigating you.
It might also not even be directly about your business, if for example one of your counter-parties (customer/supplier) is subject to criminal investigation it could result in you getting flagged up as a related party.
It sucks when it happens but unfortunately it's a reality at every bank.
Slightly Off Topic: The other thing i notice is how we are dependent on "Monthly" services and subscription. iCloud, Photoshop etc. A lot of these could have been a product that you buy it one off.
What a horror story. I also have a business bank account in UK and after reading this article I immediately went and paid myself a hefty dividend just in case something like this happened. I will try to keep balance in the business bank account low, just enough to pay corporation tax, VAT and salary.
This is an intentional strategy to increase the 'cost of regulation' so they can lobby against it and go back to accepting shoeboxes of cash through deposit windows.
We were just about to move our business banking over to HSBC, but this is appalling. I'm going to bring this up with the people we're dealing with and politely decline to go any further with the process for now.
Ironically, I know use Bitcoin and Bitcoin-linked debit cards to pay for Github, Amazon and the rest. Much easier than having all these calls from banks, and for less than 2000 €/month, KYC is very relaxed.
[+] [-] woodylondon|8 years ago|reply
I was locked out of internet banking for my business account with Lloyds for over 3 months due to a technical fault in the way it was setup. Was paid compensation in the end, but already had moved to another bank. They could not have cared less.
Some people will say no smoke without fire, but if you read on moneysavingexpert about people being locked out of their personal accounts for the same reason. Any transfer that is slightly different from your day to day will be flagged and risk having your account locked for weeks / months on end.
It happens more than we realise. A bit like winning the lottery, it could be you :(
The further we go down the road of electronic payments, and a cashless society it could get really messy.
The only way to solve in the short term is to spread the risk across many banks, and never keep your money in one place. Keep hold of some cash!
[+] [-] noir_lord|8 years ago|reply
That payment has gone on the same day of the month to the same place since 2009 and they still randomly do it. Last time was three days before Christmas.
HSBC are terrible.
[+] [-] jacquesm|8 years ago|reply
This is always good advice, and when you reach the maximum amount for which an account is insured (100K or thereabouts) it is an absolute must. I have my funds spread over five accounts just in case and make sure you note the legal differences between savings accounts and current accounts, the latter may not be insured in case the bank folds depending on where you are.
[+] [-] Retric|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] VHRanger|8 years ago|reply
Market power. There are economies of scale in banks, so there are few banks which are huge and can generally afford to act shittily to their customers (unlike in competitive industries).
For the record, I don't think breaking up the banks or capping bank size will fundamentally solve the problem either.
[+] [-] WalterBright|8 years ago|reply
That saved me in the 2007 crash, as one account of mine got frozen for a year. Just like it's a bad idea to put all of your investments into one stock.
[+] [-] webbrahmin|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bradleyankrom|8 years ago|reply
After having similarly-frustrating things happen with my HSBC personal accounts over the years, I fully support this suggestion. They are awful. They take extreme steps (suspending accounts, rejecting payments, etc.) without contacting the customer; when you reach out to them, it's hours of being passed around before you reach the right person. If you reach a person at all.
[+] [-] Twirrim|8 years ago|reply
He reported it and they suspended his account immediately while they investigated, which is fine. What wasn't fine was it took them well over a month to investigate, in the mean time all of his money was locked up tight and he was unable to access it, pay rent, buy lunch etc (we ended up shouting him for meals for a bit to help out until work organised an advance on his salary). In the end he really regretted 1) having all his money in a single account, and 2) ever having bothered telling HSBC about the transfer.
[+] [-] Pharylon|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gcb0|8 years ago|reply
years ago, they were the only bank to open an account with my history from another country. all other us banks had the same bullshit "you won't even have a credit card with us until you have credit history in the us, even though we have branches in the country you have history".
then they were the only ones offering investments with no administration fee and with returns above the monopoly of .5 point under official inflation. they were actually 1 point above.
but yeah, every time I travel and forget to tell them before, my card get lots locked. and they claim they didn't call me before locking because it was sleep hours in my home timezone, in case I wasn't really traveling.
also driving in the us, every time I stop in a motel 6 and such, locked card.
[+] [-] xroche|8 years ago|reply
Unless you are a drug cartel, of course.
[+] [-] oneeyedpigeon|8 years ago|reply
I would add to the list, but I can't login to my account at the moment since I don't have my bespoke HSBC 2FA physical device (despite having a far-superior, non-polluting equivalent on my phone...)
[+] [-] butler14|8 years ago|reply
This really struck a nerve with me, as I've had similarly infuriating experiences with Natwest (though never to the point of my account being suspended).
Passed from one team to another -- and even witnessing colleagues from different teams argue with each other, not realising that I wasn't properly on mute... I wish I had it recorded.
Opening and administrating a simple small business bank account has been the single most unnecessarily difficult and frustrating thing about starting my own business.
It's why I'm so passionate about someone FINALLY disrupting the circle jerk of the mainstream banking industry and the organisational, bureaucratic and regulatory clusterfuck that it has become.
[+] [-] jacquesm|8 years ago|reply
In the meantime set up another account with another bank and make sure all invoices that are pending but not yet paid are paid into that account and not into the HSBC account.
Then shift over all the monthly payments to the new account as funds appear.
[+] [-] TheOtherHobbes|8 years ago|reply
You'll spend a fortune paying someone to argue some or all of the agreement is unenforceable.
I would suggest trying to get in contact with other businesses in the same boat. The UK doesn't have a formal class action suit mechanism, but there's nothing to stop you pooling your resources in a joint suit and suing for an eye-watering sum of common consequential losses.
My guess is that if you do that, HSBC will settle out of court by restoring your accounts and offering a "no-fault goodwill payment" to everyone.
At that point you can collectively choose to refuse the payment and fight the case all the way through.
[+] [-] woodylondon|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cm2187|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] maxehmookau|8 years ago|reply
It was £2000 to the Student Loans Company. My account was a graduate account.
All of the clever machine learning anti-fraud algorithms in the world couldn't figure that one out.
Go figure.
[+] [-] lucaspiller|8 years ago|reply
It usually happens for companies I've made countless payments before to, last time it was Three when I tried to top up £10 on my phone.
On the other hand it allows me to go to random countries I have never visited before, and make contactless transactions without issue...
[+] [-] nh2|8 years ago|reply
I studied in the UK, lots of horror stories to tell:
# Name misspelled 4 times
* Santander: They spelled my name wrong on the debit card, 4 times in a row, with a different misspelling each time. Each time I had to go to the branch and type the correct spelling into a keyboard. They still got it wrong the next time. The 5th card was correct. I was without a working card for 3 months and had to pay everything in cash.
# Locked out after they sent money to somebody else
* Barclays: My flat mate paid me sublet rent. One of the transfer didn't arrive. When he checked, the money was sent to a completely different account number he had never entered (probably an off-by-one error in their code?). He called Barclays to correct the transfer. Instead of fixing the issue, they locked his account for 2 months, he couldn't pay any rent any more, he couldn't receive money from his parents to pay for rent or university fees.
# Ridiculous branch security
* Natwest: I'm at the branch with my friend. We're sitting directly in front of the clerk with her keyboard to her Windows computer in front of her. She unlocks the screen saver, 1-finger-typing the 5-character password (so I knew the password). Then she leaves us in the room alone for 10 minutes, not even locking the screen saver again. Also, the part of the PC where the keyboard is plugged into the USB is directly next to my right leg. It would be very easy to pop in a keylogger without anybody noticing (of course it has already been done: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/10322536/Barcla... and http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-santander-arrests/gang-held...). Later she asks my friend for a password. My friend looks at me, I put my fingers into my ears. Afterwards the clerk asks "why did you put your fingers into your ears?". I respond it was so I wouldn't learn my friend's password, obviously. She replies "Oh wow, that's cute!". Such is the qualification and training of those who safeguard your money.
# Preventing my card getting blocked abroad with Jedi tricks
* Santander: I'm abroad in Hungary with my UK debit card being the only one I have with me. After buying an 8£ ticket from ticket machine of the Hungarian public train transport MAV, I get an automated call from Santander to confirm whether a potentially fraudulent payment of 8£ is legit. I confirm. After a short while I receive a text that says my card is now blocked. I call Santander's support. They say my card is blocked because of a fraudulent transaction. I say I just confirmed that this transaction is not fraudulent, please unlock my card. They say "sorry, your card cannot be unlocked it has been marked with a red flag". After being stunned for a moment by this idiocy I say "so what, remove the flag then". "I can't do that Sir, we'll have to send you a new card to your UK address". I lose it with "You will not send me a new card, I am abroad and this card is the only one I can pay with here! You will unlock my card NOW!" (My inner self makes an Obi-Wan-esque hand guesture.) To my surprise, the answer is "OK, I'll check it with my boss", and shortly after "OK, card is unlocked. But we'll send you a new card in one month". I never received a new card.
I've never had any such problems with German and Swiss banks.
[+] [-] philjohn|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] djmobley|8 years ago|reply
That is quite an unusual thing to do.
[+] [-] weirdstuff|8 years ago|reply
Another reason why I want to avoid a cashless society, at least in the way we're heading right now. Scary how quickly banks will cave in to pressure from the feds before any legal process even begins (if ever).
http://www.newsmax.com/US/Operation-Choke-Point-federal-bank...
[+] [-] colemannugent|8 years ago|reply
Also, can anyone tell me why the other reply to the parent is dead? It was a completely relevant response that, I assume, was downvoted because it mentioned something that Trump did in a positive way.
[+] [-] carterpaige|8 years ago|reply
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/08/17/trump-reverses-obam...
The presumption of guilt turns the entire concept of justice on its head. A 'cashless' society at best is one that ensures that only those at the top might get to enjoy the fruits of fraud and corruption.
[+] [-] Spearchucker|8 years ago|reply
I put safeguarding in quotes because a couple years ago I was responsible for the technical aspects of the acquisition of a small fin. book from HSBC. They did a lot of absolute dictation of governance hurdles which they "enforced" - again the quotes, because they came to our offices and nodded wisely when I rattled through our list of safeguards. But very clearly didn't understand a thing about the controls we said we were using. They also didn't ask for any evidence of the controls. That really surprised me, after all the noise they'd made leading up to that meeting.
I don't rate them technically at all, so have to wonder what their business capability is like...
[+] [-] katet|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rwmj|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jopsen|8 years ago|reply
Ombudsman, politicians, media, lawyers, business interest groups...
HN probably isn't local enough.
[+] [-] matheweis|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] krisdol|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dmoy|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kelvin0|8 years ago|reply
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mt._Gox
"Mt. Gox announced that approximately 850,000 bitcoins belonging to customers and the company were missing and likely stolen, an amount valued at more than $450 million at the time"
[+] [-] koolba|8 years ago|reply
Not true. They have a lot of dark patterns to make you think that but you don't actually need a payment account associated with your Apple ID. It's possible they've changed this since the last time I tried doing setting one up but you may need to go through the desktop interface rather than doing it directly on a iOS device.
[+] [-] homarp|8 years ago|reply
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201266 is "Change or remove your Apple ID payment information"
[+] [-] vizzah|8 years ago|reply
Business banking is getting totally destroyed by fanatical and full of nonsense administration of KYC regulations, where banks want to verify not only the invoices and reasons for every transaction, but the underlying composition of every amount and how it was earned and why. And why the sum earned is higher, than what they think it should be. Their reviews of business models and revenue generation processes is more strict and intruding, than the figures some investors consider enough to provide business with funding.(Rietumu bank, Latvia).
At the same time many large European banks are losing their ability to transact in USD, after bank-correspondents are leaving them (Deutsche bank). SEPA transfers in EUR is what is left for many businesses as they are cut from making any international payments in non-EUR currency.
The situation is beyond worrying. I hope there are some sane banks left. Possibly smaller banks, friendly to online businesses, who realize that when you receive affiliate payments from Booking.com NV, you are not laundering money and it would be totally moronic to questions those transfers. Please comment if you can recommend such.
[+] [-] forcer|8 years ago|reply
Since HSBC kicked us out we have multiple banks and if things go wrong we just move to another one.
[+] [-] webbrahmin|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] shermozle|8 years ago|reply
If they decide you are a drug cartel or rogue nation, you will be upgraded to Most Favoured Customer status and assigned a personal account manager. If requested the dimensions for the aperture of teller windows will be provided so you can custom manufacture boxes to fit the maximum amount of dirty cash through them in the shortest time possible.
[+] [-] ig1|8 years ago|reply
There can also be legal restrictions on what they can tell you. For example if they think you're committing money laundering it can be a criminal offence ("tipping off") for them to tell you that why they're investigating you.
It might also not even be directly about your business, if for example one of your counter-parties (customer/supplier) is subject to criminal investigation it could result in you getting flagged up as a related party.
It sucks when it happens but unfortunately it's a reality at every bank.
[+] [-] ksec|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jaclaz|8 years ago|reply
An aspect of SaaS that needs to be considered.
[+] [-] richardknop|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tweedledee|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] petercooper|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] atemerev|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 9to5isdead|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nolite|8 years ago|reply