I'm going on a trip to Canada within the next month, from the US, as a US citizen.
I want to be let into Canada without issue, so am taking a burner smartphone connected to a non-critical gmail account that is plausibly-maybe my "real" personal one. But not really. The maximum threat to me is detention, or more likely, refused entry. If I am asked to unlock the device, I will.
Crossing back into the US, I am less concerned. If I am asked to unlock the device, I will NOT. The maximum threat to me is semi-indefinite detention, and I know at the end of it, I can reach out to the EFF to seek representation in a larger action.
Does anyone else have any tips/tricks/ideas here? I realize trying to subvert any Canadian border search is not a good idea, but it's a good middle-grounds vs. "don't go to Canada" or "give them all your private data", I think. On the other hand, I am willing to be more stringent with the US border because (A) I am a citizen, I cannot be refused entry, and (B) this is a cause I would like to participate in, so invite any negative outcome caused by my refusal to unlock the device or share any logins.
>Does anyone else have any tips/tricks/ideas here?
The trick is to not worry about it so much. In fact, I'd say that worrying and looking nervous would make it more likely that you would be searched.
I live on the US/Canadian border (on the US side) and go over probably 2 or 3 times per month. I regularly drive from New York state to Ottawa (going through Canadian customs), then fly into the US (through US customs) and then back again through Canada (Canadian customs again) driving home to the US (US customs again) with no problems. It's closer than the nearest commercial airport to me in the US and even with the customs delay, much more convenient. I also just go over to have fun in Ottawa and Montreal regularly.
My vehicle has been searched 3 times in probably 6 years. My phone has always stayed with me, in my pocket, un-searched.
I have only ever personally heard of one case of someone having their electronics searched, and the extent of the search was Canadian customs using the Windows search to look for files with "boy" or "girl" in the filename -- presumably looking for child porn.
To be clear, I'm not saying this doesn't ever happen, or that it will 100% never happen to you, but the chances are very, very slim that they'll even ask you more than a few questions, let alone do any sort of search. Your mileage may vary, of course.
> I realize trying to subvert any Canadian border search is not a good idea
Erm, I don't see how you'd be "subverting" the search. The purpose of a border search is to examine what you're bringing into the country. If you smoke marijuana at home but (prudently) don't try to bring some into Canada, that isn't subverting their search.
The latest time I returned to into the USSA (a while ago), I had an old laptop that I zeroed out the hard drive and physically moved it out of the computer. I figured this would leave the thugs with less justification to steal my things. However, I lucked out and was not actually subjected to an invasive inspection.
Also, I don't know what you've previously used this burner phone for, but any flash filesystem won't actually erase things when you delete them.
$100 says nothing is going to happen. This is selection bias at its best, as you only hear about the people getting their devices searched not the ones crossing easily. The chances of this happening to you are slim to none.
I am not saying no one should be worried, I am just saying OP should not.
>> The maximum threat to me is semi-indefinite detention
Thanks for willing to take one for the team but be prepared to be put on a "troublemaker" list and be harassed, time and time again at border crossings.
Just apply for Nexus. You're harmless. They'll do supreme vetting once and you'll avoid any stupid power tripping boarder guards after that. Since I got that I've spent under 5 mins at the boarder each time.
My solution has been to not go to the US, but that is not always doable.
An interesting solution is to give something else to the border to worry about. Something perfectly legal but that would focus their attention. Like a perfectly registered and legally transported gun. Or some flour in plastic bags. Or a bottle of whiskey.
The US extends the border-search exception to anywhere within 100 miles of an airport with international fights, meaning something like 60% of the US lives within a "border zone" as most international airports are close to dense population centers.
Despite federal law allowing certain federal agents to conduct search and seizures within 100 miles of the border into the interior of the United States,[5] the Supreme Court has clearly and repeatedly confirmed that the border search exception applies only at international borders and their functional equivalent (such as international airports).[1] [2]
This is tangential, and I'm sure you didn't mean to, but you've come close to implying that a CBP agent can stop, search, and detain anyone within 100 miles of an International airport. That's not the case, it would have to be someone who actually crossed the border in to the USA.
That said, and I can' believe I have to make this disclaimer as it feels about as obvious as saying I'm against torturing kittens, but I am against the overreaching searches the EFF and ACLU are suing over here.
A few years ago, I considered starting regular donations to the EFF. Unfortunately, I did not realize they had taken pro position on state intervention and control of the Internet, a concept generally described with the orwellian phrase "net neutrality." This position directly contradicts much of the their advocacy that I wanted to support.
I'm glad they picked up this approach, I think they got it from the NRA. NRA's been doing donor merchandise and services quite well for a long time, they even have a wine delivery service.
I encourage anyone operating a non-profit to consider setting up programmes like this; you'll get more visibility (from people virtue-signalling their donation), and it will attract new revenue from sociopaths.
Interesting question to me: is any country offering easy-to-attain diplomatic-courier status, such that I could (legitimately) label my laptop bag as a diplomatic pouch to protect it from search?
(Yes, it's more complex than this; you'd have to be able to upload a manifest of what's in the bag and what it weighs to some service of that country's government, and then the country's embassy here would forward the manifest to the State Dept and they'd send you a sticker for your bag, etc.)
No. This would be in direct contravention of the Vienna Protocols [1] that define a diplomatic pouch and its protections. You are not allowed to stuff your personal shit in a diplomatic courier pouch, and any country openly and intentionally allowing the abuse of the Vienna Protocols for these purposes would be in very hot water internationally. Like, international-incident, embassies-expelled hot water.
[1] Article 27 Section 4: "The packages constituting the diplomatic bag must bear visible external marks of their character and may contain only diplomatic documents or articles intended for official use."
I hope this one goes to the Supreme Court, as that's the only place this will be resolved. Otherwise, U.S. Criminal Law is clear: searches and seizures at the border are exempt from requirements for warrants or probable cause.
Multiple circuit courts have upheld the Government's right to do this, and that this right extends to electronic files and information. Only the Ninth has disagreed (United States v. Cotterman).
Isn't the US Constitution the highest law in the US? The Fourth clearly states people should be secure from search or seizure of their personal effects and papers, which obviously extends to electronic devices.
So my question is, shouldn't there be extroardinary consequences for breaking laws such as these?
Why does it appear so easy for government to get away with this? Is it a really bad thing thay constitutional rights are being easily trampeled on? It seems like a bad deal to me.
4A says "secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures".
The exact definition of "unreasonable" is subject to interpretation by the executive agencies and the courts. Search at the border for the purposes of detecting contraband has been considered reasonable from the moment Constitution was in force. Right now, we're finding just how far this can be stretched.
The Supreme Court has determined that the 4th Amendment has lesser protections at borders.[1] Border patrol has the ability to search your containers , and perform non-invasive body searches without any degree of suspicion, for instance. More invasive searches, like cavity searches and involuntary body x-rays require a degree of suspicion. Whether electronic searches fall under the first category or the latter is what this lawsuit may determine.
The short answer is that the Fourth Amendment isn't actually all that clear, and that it's up to judges, lawyers, politicians, and citizens to figure out how it applies in different situations.
If they can search your bags without a warrant at the border, why can't they search your phone or laptop?
Edit: Contraband can be both physical and digital. If the government can conduct searches for physical contraband then searches for digital contraband in certain circumstances like border crossings seems reasonable.
It's one thing if a border guard inspects your house key you brought along, analyzes for dangerous substances, drugs, etc.
It's another if they clone that key and have someone drive out to inspect your house with it.
To me, your house in this scenario is your entire collection of private data accessible online / remotely (finances, taxes, possibly the private data of others -- possibly even portals to HIPAA/other PII data of a more commercial nature).
Assuming you agree that it is unfair to let the border search data outside of the phone, then it gets still more problematic.
One of the tricky aspects here is that it seems you can be detained / intimidated if you refuse to decrypt / unlock your device (as a US citizen re-entering your own country). I think you're getting at the idea that the phone/laptop is a physical device and should be searchable like any other object -- and, I think that's fairly reasonable. The problem is that the border guard can also "compel" you to decrypt that device / log in to it if you've put these measures in place. People have been forcibly detained for refusing to cooperate [1], even being put into a chokehold [2].
I respect that some amount of extra search power is required at borders -- but that power must be reasonably scoped (and in this case, I'd say it is not).
Your phone / laptop is now digitally connected to everything in your life.
Giving access of that over to a government agent is like handing them a diary of everything you ever thought, a list of everyone you ever met, a record of everywhere you ever went, a list of every book you've ever read, a list of every medication you've ever taken, a list of every game you've ever played, a list of every off-color joke you've ever cracked with friends, etc.
Because that's presumably to prevent you from importing physical contraband into the country. Checking your internet connected device for contraband makes zero sense.
One big difference is that digital searches aren't limited to stuff you're bringing with you -- they want to search your entire past history in terms of email, social media, etc.
Another big difference is the purpose of the search in the first place. We search for physically dangerous items to protect people, or unlawful items for customs reasons. The case for physically dangerous data and unlawful data is much less clear cut.
The real reason for searching your devices seems to be related to profiling you as a person in order to determine if they want to let you in, which is a completely different purpose than searching your bags.
It depends on the reasonableness of the search. Physically inspecting bags to prevent agricultural products and weapons is both more effective at protecting the country, and less invasive into the personal lives of the travelers. Searching your phone is not just what you are carrying with you, but your entire connected life. Because the CBP is doing so few of these searches already there is little reason that they cannot get a warrant in cases where there is a real reason further search is needed.
Checking for digital content at the border doesn't really make sense, given the Internet. Especially as applied to U.S. citizens and permanent residents, who are already authorized to work and live in the U.S. and therefore should have no motive to break immigration laws. If this is not a purely immigration inspection at the border, then the government should get a warrant.
It's complicated by your phone or laptop also being a gateway to a much larger digital footprint. My phone has some information stored locally, but it also has the keys to all my online accounts.
If I carry a key to my home safe with me across an international border, that doesn't give the government the right to seize that key and search my safe but that's effectively what they're doing with digital searches.
[+] [-] ironix|8 years ago|reply
I want to be let into Canada without issue, so am taking a burner smartphone connected to a non-critical gmail account that is plausibly-maybe my "real" personal one. But not really. The maximum threat to me is detention, or more likely, refused entry. If I am asked to unlock the device, I will.
Crossing back into the US, I am less concerned. If I am asked to unlock the device, I will NOT. The maximum threat to me is semi-indefinite detention, and I know at the end of it, I can reach out to the EFF to seek representation in a larger action.
Does anyone else have any tips/tricks/ideas here? I realize trying to subvert any Canadian border search is not a good idea, but it's a good middle-grounds vs. "don't go to Canada" or "give them all your private data", I think. On the other hand, I am willing to be more stringent with the US border because (A) I am a citizen, I cannot be refused entry, and (B) this is a cause I would like to participate in, so invite any negative outcome caused by my refusal to unlock the device or share any logins.
[+] [-] iamatworknow|8 years ago|reply
The trick is to not worry about it so much. In fact, I'd say that worrying and looking nervous would make it more likely that you would be searched.
I live on the US/Canadian border (on the US side) and go over probably 2 or 3 times per month. I regularly drive from New York state to Ottawa (going through Canadian customs), then fly into the US (through US customs) and then back again through Canada (Canadian customs again) driving home to the US (US customs again) with no problems. It's closer than the nearest commercial airport to me in the US and even with the customs delay, much more convenient. I also just go over to have fun in Ottawa and Montreal regularly.
My vehicle has been searched 3 times in probably 6 years. My phone has always stayed with me, in my pocket, un-searched.
I have only ever personally heard of one case of someone having their electronics searched, and the extent of the search was Canadian customs using the Windows search to look for files with "boy" or "girl" in the filename -- presumably looking for child porn.
To be clear, I'm not saying this doesn't ever happen, or that it will 100% never happen to you, but the chances are very, very slim that they'll even ask you more than a few questions, let alone do any sort of search. Your mileage may vary, of course.
[+] [-] mindslight|8 years ago|reply
Erm, I don't see how you'd be "subverting" the search. The purpose of a border search is to examine what you're bringing into the country. If you smoke marijuana at home but (prudently) don't try to bring some into Canada, that isn't subverting their search.
The latest time I returned to into the USSA (a while ago), I had an old laptop that I zeroed out the hard drive and physically moved it out of the computer. I figured this would leave the thugs with less justification to steal my things. However, I lucked out and was not actually subjected to an invasive inspection.
Also, I don't know what you've previously used this burner phone for, but any flash filesystem won't actually erase things when you delete them.
[+] [-] curiousgal|8 years ago|reply
I am not saying no one should be worried, I am just saying OP should not.
[+] [-] tryingagainbro|8 years ago|reply
Thanks for willing to take one for the team but be prepared to be put on a "troublemaker" list and be harassed, time and time again at border crossings.
[+] [-] 3pt14159|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Iv|8 years ago|reply
An interesting solution is to give something else to the border to worry about. Something perfectly legal but that would focus their attention. Like a perfectly registered and legally transported gun. Or some flour in plastic bags. Or a bottle of whiskey.
[+] [-] TheSpiceIsLife|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] greymeister|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wonderous|8 years ago|reply
[1] https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=693326075362777...
[2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Martinez-Fu...
[+] [-] djrogers|8 years ago|reply
That said, and I can' believe I have to make this disclaimer as it feels about as obvious as saying I'm against torturing kittens, but I am against the overreaching searches the EFF and ACLU are suing over here.
[+] [-] aey|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] abtinf|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] microcolonel|8 years ago|reply
I encourage anyone operating a non-profit to consider setting up programmes like this; you'll get more visibility (from people virtue-signalling their donation), and it will attract new revenue from sociopaths.
[+] [-] rdiddly|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] StavrosK|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] derefr|8 years ago|reply
(Yes, it's more complex than this; you'd have to be able to upload a manifest of what's in the bag and what it weighs to some service of that country's government, and then the country's embassy here would forward the manifest to the State Dept and they'd send you a sticker for your bag, etc.)
[+] [-] azernik|8 years ago|reply
[1] Article 27 Section 4: "The packages constituting the diplomatic bag must bear visible external marks of their character and may contain only diplomatic documents or articles intended for official use."
[+] [-] ceejayoz|8 years ago|reply
Countries get to limit the number of staff a foreign embassy is allowed to bring in, and they can kick folks out of the country.
[+] [-] basseq|8 years ago|reply
Multiple circuit courts have upheld the Government's right to do this, and that this right extends to electronic files and information. Only the Ninth has disagreed (United States v. Cotterman).
[+] [-] wallace_f|8 years ago|reply
So my question is, shouldn't there be extroardinary consequences for breaking laws such as these?
Why does it appear so easy for government to get away with this? Is it a really bad thing thay constitutional rights are being easily trampeled on? It seems like a bad deal to me.
[+] [-] int_19h|8 years ago|reply
The exact definition of "unreasonable" is subject to interpretation by the executive agencies and the courts. Search at the border for the purposes of detecting contraband has been considered reasonable from the moment Constitution was in force. Right now, we're finding just how far this can be stretched.
[+] [-] manfredo|8 years ago|reply
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_search_exception
[+] [-] ENOTTY|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] meri_dian|8 years ago|reply
Edit: Contraband can be both physical and digital. If the government can conduct searches for physical contraband then searches for digital contraband in certain circumstances like border crossings seems reasonable.
[+] [-] ironix|8 years ago|reply
It's one thing if a border guard inspects your house key you brought along, analyzes for dangerous substances, drugs, etc.
It's another if they clone that key and have someone drive out to inspect your house with it.
To me, your house in this scenario is your entire collection of private data accessible online / remotely (finances, taxes, possibly the private data of others -- possibly even portals to HIPAA/other PII data of a more commercial nature).
Assuming you agree that it is unfair to let the border search data outside of the phone, then it gets still more problematic.
One of the tricky aspects here is that it seems you can be detained / intimidated if you refuse to decrypt / unlock your device (as a US citizen re-entering your own country). I think you're getting at the idea that the phone/laptop is a physical device and should be searchable like any other object -- and, I think that's fairly reasonable. The problem is that the border guard can also "compel" you to decrypt that device / log in to it if you've put these measures in place. People have been forcibly detained for refusing to cooperate [1], even being put into a chokehold [2].
I respect that some amount of extra search power is required at borders -- but that power must be reasonably scoped (and in this case, I'd say it is not).
[1] http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/13/us/citizen-nasa-engineer-detai... [2] https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/american-citizens-u-s-b...
[+] [-] martinflack|8 years ago|reply
Giving access of that over to a government agent is like handing them a diary of everything you ever thought, a list of everyone you ever met, a record of everywhere you ever went, a list of every book you've ever read, a list of every medication you've ever taken, a list of every game you've ever played, a list of every off-color joke you've ever cracked with friends, etc.
Would you hand that over on paper?
[+] [-] __david__|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bo1024|8 years ago|reply
Another big difference is the purpose of the search in the first place. We search for physically dangerous items to protect people, or unlawful items for customs reasons. The case for physically dangerous data and unlawful data is much less clear cut.
The real reason for searching your devices seems to be related to profiling you as a person in order to determine if they want to let you in, which is a completely different purpose than searching your bags.
[+] [-] imbur|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sbov|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tony101|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] morgante|8 years ago|reply
If I carry a key to my home safe with me across an international border, that doesn't give the government the right to seize that key and search my safe but that's effectively what they're doing with digital searches.
[+] [-] tony101|8 years ago|reply
Edit: Saw the downvotes, so just wanted to note that the linked post was submitted before this one, and hence this comment. Not that it matters. :)
[+] [-] tony101|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|8 years ago|reply
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