It sounds goofy, but this strikes me as really clever. Compared to almost anything else with self driving cars adding a few indicators to outwardly show what it's going to do next (for pedestrians and other drivers) is a huge win.
There is a fair amount of waving for someone else to go first at a turn, seeing if a driver is distracted (on their phone) at a stop, making eye contact while using a cross walk etc that gets lost with SDVs.
I can't recall properly where I read it, but some time ago there was an idea to have stop signals also in front of the car, so the pedestrians would know if the driver/car is stopping.
There are also pedestrians who can take into account if the car is turning (obviously by watching the turning lights).
A self-driving car should have some reactions to people around it, so people could also respond properly to its actions, or know its intentions. There was a comment about an empty electric car near the intersection, staying still, and people around it can't tell if the car is parked, waiting, etc.
Ever since I heard of people getting blame for accidents, since they were effectively directing traffic (which only the police are allowed to do here), I've stopped waving people to go ahead and similar gestures, instead I'll give them space and wait for them to act of their own accord.
I've also stopped acting on other people's waves and gestures, I check for myself that everything is clear before I proceed.
Luckily I haven't witnessed an accident like this myself, but I know of people who've been T-boned on multi-lane streets because they were waved ahead by a guy in one lane, but someone came in another lane and couldn't see the turning car.
I don't mean to be offensive, but can someone please explain to me how the Stop signs work in US? Am I correct to understand that whoever arrived at the stop sign first goes first, regardless of where they are going? Is this considered a good system?
In EU you have strictly defined priority at stop signs - put simply, if you are going straight you have priority over someone turning, if you are turning, then the person turning right has priority over someone turning left. Simple as that.
I'm just thinking in context of automatic vehicles a strictly defined priority rules are easier to follow, no?
People in the comments are making references to prank videos and film techniques, but this type of research study has also been conducted multiples times in the last few years by institutions such as Stanford [1], UC San Diego [2], Virginia Tech [3], and more.
"they just needed people to believe wholeheartedly they were using one."
Don't they mean "seeing one" instead of "using one"? Or am I missing something?
"fill in gaps where we currently communicate via subtle gestures, eye contact and other less obvious mechanisms."
This also struck me as odd - do pedestrians and other drivers really make "eye contact" with drivers to gauge their intention? I guess it's possible, but in many cases you can't see the driver's head, let alone eyes.
> do pedestrians and other drivers really make "eye contact" with drivers to gauge their intention?
I certainly do - most commonly when merging into a congested lane from a side street, stopping and making eye contact helps understand if everybody is paying attention (the merger can move forward and the merged is leaving a space open for them).
do pedestrians and other drivers really make "eye contact" with drivers to gauge their intention?
They do, and it's even advised by some. But I'm here to tell you that the eyes lie. I've had people look me directly in the eye and still pull out in front of me.
Look at the wheels. The wheels will always tell you what the vehicle is going to do.
Pedestrians often do. For example, I'd want to make eye contact with a driver of a car attempting to make an unprotected left turn (and not looking in my direction) prior to crossing in front of it.
It's interesting, everybody is thinking about how this was used for pranks and films, but I immediately thought of the much more sinister attempts to flee east Germany. I was unable to find a photo, but I remember seeing a car that was modified so a person could be sewn into the seat in a Berlin Museum.
This is really quite common. I read an article about a car in Pittsburgh where a driver was similarly disguised in order to research specifically other peoples reactions to driverless vehicles on the road. In the article I read, I believe it occurred in Pittsburgh, PA and the researcher was affiliated with a university (maybe Carnegie Melon?). The reporter was able to speak with the costumed researcher just briefly, but got a more substantive statement from the org doing the research.
Seems like they need to turn the cameras inward too (or has this been done already?); they can start observing "good" drivers providing signs to other drivers to then learn how to communicate a driving decision better.
It's kind of funny imagining a robot / self-driving car program going through driver's ed and taking the driver's license test with a human scoring it. Will car models and algorithms be evaluated like this too? :)
I have been in a situation when I was mid-crosswalk when an idiot came screaming round a long shallow corner too fast (fast enough to have the white-line between his wheels).
I had a 50/50 choice. Keep going or run back. In the 3 or so seconds I had we made eye contact and I saw him return his eyes to my front (i.e. he was trying to get back on to his side of the road) so I moved backwards.
Not sure what I would have done if it were a self-driving car and unable to do the visual communication (Although the entire point might be moot since a self-driver wouldn't be in that situation)
Looks like they put a cylon indicator on it? Not terrifying at all...
As for devising new signals which other drivers are supposed to watch to understand what the car plans to do, I'd say we need a lot more research to understand if this actually helps or just distracts.
Interestingly, it was the same for me. I was really confused for a few seconds until "self-driving" sank in and it became clear that Henry Fore could not have been alive for that.
[+] [-] michaelbuckbee|8 years ago|reply
There is a fair amount of waving for someone else to go first at a turn, seeing if a driver is distracted (on their phone) at a stop, making eye contact while using a cross walk etc that gets lost with SDVs.
Also, I really feel like they stole this idea from Raid 2 https://youtu.be/ErrRhXItBWc?t=118
[+] [-] agumonkey|8 years ago|reply
That's how they made Knight Rider "driverless" scenes (http://www.knightriderarchives.com/knight_rider/season_one/g... <= can't find a clear shot, but if you find episodes online, it's pretty easy to see the double depth seat and raised up armrests)
[+] [-] cpv|8 years ago|reply
There are also pedestrians who can take into account if the car is turning (obviously by watching the turning lights).
A self-driving car should have some reactions to people around it, so people could also respond properly to its actions, or know its intentions. There was a comment about an empty electric car near the intersection, staying still, and people around it can't tell if the car is parked, waiting, etc.
[+] [-] dsfyu404ed|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] KozmoNau7|8 years ago|reply
Ever since I heard of people getting blame for accidents, since they were effectively directing traffic (which only the police are allowed to do here), I've stopped waving people to go ahead and similar gestures, instead I'll give them space and wait for them to act of their own accord.
I've also stopped acting on other people's waves and gestures, I check for myself that everything is clear before I proceed.
Luckily I haven't witnessed an accident like this myself, but I know of people who've been T-boned on multi-lane streets because they were waved ahead by a guy in one lane, but someone came in another lane and couldn't see the turning car.
[+] [-] gambiting|8 years ago|reply
In EU you have strictly defined priority at stop signs - put simply, if you are going straight you have priority over someone turning, if you are turning, then the person turning right has priority over someone turning left. Simple as that.
I'm just thinking in context of automatic vehicles a strictly defined priority rules are easier to follow, no?
[+] [-] stcredzero|8 years ago|reply
Didn't the Top Gear / Grand Tour guys jokingly propose to do this?
[+] [-] sailfast|8 years ago|reply
And Sherlock.
[+] [-] daveguy|8 years ago|reply
https://youtu.be/xVrJ8DxECbg
I'm sure it had probably been done before that too. :)
Even better when you "put a robot in the driver's seat":
https://youtu.be/CdggQr05LAA
[+] [-] mykeliu|8 years ago|reply
[1] http://wendyju.com/publications/RO-MAN2016-Rothenbucher.pdf
[2] http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/science/sd-me-ghost...
[3] https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2017/08/heres-the-rea...
[+] [-] tonmoy|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cs2818|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] shangxiao|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jhgb|8 years ago|reply
Well of course, anything else would have been a car seat cosplay fail!
[+] [-] unkown-unknowns|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Jeremy1026|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] brandon272|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] josefresco|8 years ago|reply
Don't they mean "seeing one" instead of "using one"? Or am I missing something?
"fill in gaps where we currently communicate via subtle gestures, eye contact and other less obvious mechanisms."
This also struck me as odd - do pedestrians and other drivers really make "eye contact" with drivers to gauge their intention? I guess it's possible, but in many cases you can't see the driver's head, let alone eyes.
[+] [-] uxp100|8 years ago|reply
Yes. Consciously, at every vehicle at an intersection, to make sure they aren't going to run me over. Same on a bike.
Other drivers? IDK, its harder through 2 windshields.
[+] [-] Splines|8 years ago|reply
I certainly do - most commonly when merging into a congested lane from a side street, stopping and making eye contact helps understand if everybody is paying attention (the merger can move forward and the merged is leaving a space open for them).
Motorcyclists also have a pretty large vocabulary (I'm not sure how many of these are actually used in practice): http://www.abate-il.org/Backroads/signals.html
[+] [-] mikestew|8 years ago|reply
They do, and it's even advised by some. But I'm here to tell you that the eyes lie. I've had people look me directly in the eye and still pull out in front of me.
Look at the wheels. The wheels will always tell you what the vehicle is going to do.
[+] [-] dwighttk|8 years ago|reply
>Don't they mean "seeing one" instead of "using one"? Or am I missing something?
the "they"s in the quote refers to the researchers, not "people"
[+] [-] Jarwain|8 years ago|reply
'they' is referring to Ford. Rephrased, "Ford just needed people to believe wholeheartedly [that] Ford [was] using one"
[+] [-] jvolkman|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jasonmaydie|8 years ago|reply
https://www.theverge.com/2017/8/7/16109378/driverless-van-ar...
[+] [-] jklp|8 years ago|reply
This statement both terrifies and piques my interest simultaneously ...
[+] [-] ATsch|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] london888|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] otakucode|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] josephpmay|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] B1FF_PSUVM|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dpflan|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dpflan|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] VMG|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] riphay|8 years ago|reply
I've seen some Youtubers pranking drive-through windows in the same way and they're pretty funny at the very least.
[+] [-] BjoernKW|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rurounijones|8 years ago|reply
I had a 50/50 choice. Keep going or run back. In the 3 or so seconds I had we made eye contact and I saw him return his eyes to my front (i.e. he was trying to get back on to his side of the road) so I moved backwards.
Not sure what I would have done if it were a self-driving car and unable to do the visual communication (Although the entire point might be moot since a self-driver wouldn't be in that situation)
[+] [-] yanni79|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kornork|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] firefoxd|8 years ago|reply
Is the driver in the car in front of you a human driver or a computer.
[+] [-] zaroth|8 years ago|reply
As for devising new signals which other drivers are supposed to watch to understand what the car plans to do, I'd say we need a lot more research to understand if this actually helps or just distracts.
[+] [-] ForFreedom|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ourmandave|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] foota|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] manmal|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] vincengomes|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nomoral|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ProAm|8 years ago|reply
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVrJ8DxECbg
[+] [-] mrspeaker|8 years ago|reply