Really hope purism finds success with this. An open phone platform has been a long time coming, I hope they can learning from the missteps of ubuntu and firefox.
I like the idea of managing my phone like I manage my computer; install whatever OS and software I want on it. Of course, that comes with the additional effort of keeping it well updated and working, and if this is a primary communication device that effort becomes more urgent. But hey, I think that's just what it takes to not be dependent on a corporation that takes my data/info in exchange for device support.
I "bought" mine. I'm not sure what their probability of success is, but if it's around 30% or so I'm fine with that. The world needs a viable alternative to the big 2 mobile OSs, and even if the market share is tiny the difference between having an alternative and not is huge.
I've been an iOS developer for years and made a comfortable living, but it bothers me on a deep and fundamental level that my primary communication and computing device is controlled by someone else, and the software I'm allowed to run and allowed to distribute is entirely decided by them. I'm willing to risk money if it helps our chances of having an alternative.
It's honestly very difficult to imagine how a small group, no matter how talented and driven, can possibly succeed where open source giants Canonical and Mozilla couldn't.
The only possibility I can imagine is that by leaning into a niche market, embracing low-volume but also the community that goes with it, rather than engaging in a quixotic quest to become a viable competitor to the established duopoly, Librem can become sustainable along the lines of niche laptop manufacturer System76. That doesn't seem entirely unreasonable, and it would be pretty cool.
I haven't had a phone mostly because I refuse to have any non-free software controlling my life. I don't want to be tracked, manipulated, or have a computer attached to me at all times with a second, hidden computer inside that can do things I don't want it to do nor can even know about.
I'm excited about Librem, if it is what I think it will be: a phone I can completely trust.
I'm also extremely surprised that it got funded. 1.5e6 USD is not a modest goal given how stingy we usually are about freedom-respecting projects.
Congratulations! I'm looking forward to the actual release. It's quite hard and risky however, and if anything, previous failed projects are an indication of how volatile all this is (like hardware partners pulling support in the middle of the development cycle and so on).
It would be great to have a device running Linux with native Wayland, and LTE modem separated from the CPU for better security. I just hope they'll go with i.MX 8M so it will be 64-bit.
How is etnaviv for it though? I also wonder what's the level of OpenGL support in it. I suppose Vulkan support isn't even started?
Th most interesting thing for me about i.MX is not 4K video or Vulkan. Quite the opposite. It is the chip powering my Kobo and, I suspect, Kindles.
An e-ink phone with a 3 day battery life! But being a hacker phone, as long as performance isn't too shabby when docked to a regular 3D accelerated LED monitor with Wayland desktop would be a nice balance.
This crowdfunding campaign started on August 24. It was at $750000 after a month on September 26, needed ten more days to reach a million on October 4, and then somehow raised the remaining $500000 in five more days? This seems weird. They didn't have that much press over this last week.
I wonder if they had investors all along and only pretended to crowdfund.
(I'm not saying this is a scam or anything. I participated.)
Yeah, that plus the fact that the campaign is just running on their own site (rather than a third-party crowdfund site like kickstarter, fig, crowdsupply or indiegogo) means that we're kind of relying on their word as to how much support they have really received.
My hope is that this is a successful campaign and that a good product is delivered, but the pre-order / crowdfund situation, at best, has an appearance of sketchiness.
I was (pleasantly) surprised by the fairly sudden jump too. I was an early backer and have been following the progress of the campaign and it looked like they were just going to make it last I checked, didn't expect to see it fully funded so early.
Yeah, I'm somewhat worried about this as well as 1.5 million is not a lot considering that they actually have to ship phones in the end and can't just pour it all into R&D. I'm assuming that they'll be using mostly commodity hardware (i.MX 8M SoC plus Alibaba-tier chassis, lcd, capacitive layer, etc.) but even then they still have to put everything together and create a deliverable product with reasonably workable software, although I expect that they plan on leaning heavily on the KDE/GNOME/Debian communities. Probably going to flip a coin later this week to determine whether I'm going to back this or not.
> "Does this mean that I can use my phone to install all apps that I can on my laptop?"
Yes. Any Linux app that runs on ARM. Most desktop apps don't have a UI that works well on mobile, and some apps are pretty much a no-go just because of performance, but aside from that you're free to install the software you want.
> "Can I apt-get install something in this (assuming debian/ubuntu installed) or have it's own app store?"
Yes, you'll be able to use package managers. The proposed phone aims to support multiple distros, including Debian and Ubuntu if you want to use apt-get. The flagship OS for the device is Pure OS, which currently uses GNOME Software as its app store (I'm guessing they might extend it with the option to install commercial software before launch):
It's super early here, so it's likely they don't know a lot for sure. It's not like they have a working reference phone even yet, they're playing with a system board and getting touch working according to the last post.
I pitched in $20 to support them, but buying a phone I might not get that I wouldn't be able to use for at least a year that may or may not meet my needs at that time was a bit of a stretch for me. Willing to bet there are many others in the same boat there.
This is an admirable effort, but unless tens of thousands of units are put into production it will be very difficult to get the attention of even the smallest Chinese OEMs. It appears they've pre-sold less than 2000 units. I wonder if it would be more fruitful to work from an existing phone with solid build quality and simplifying the process of jailbreaking it and installing FOSS on it.
Separating the CPU and the baseband is going to be a challenge when building this device and impossible on any other device. But, if you want a libre phone then you must because the baseband will be a black box that's unavoidable.
Jailbreaking and installing FOSS like Jolla is doing with Sailfish on Xperia X right this week, with some help from Sony Open Devices.
Still, it would be nice to have some hope do be able to do it without relying on manufacturers' goodwill... If ARM gets sufficiently commoditised so it's cheap (both time and money) enough for smaller players to create hardware, surely there must be enough open-source and/or privacy-oriented folks around to come up with a profitable product?
If Microsoft would support this from a distance - thru open source and maybe some financing - this would be their best play in the mobile space. They would achieve way more than Windows Mobile ever did.
Jan 2019 seems a bit aggressive. If they do manage to pull it off thought, even for a later date, I will be definitely placing an order as soon as possible.
I don't know about you, but I want to get as far away from the whole Android ecosystem as possible. I don't want "Linux-based." I want fully fledged GNU/Linux in my pocket. I want to take advantage of GNOME/KDE's convergence interfaces. I want to develop real Unix software and port it to a phone without rewriting it for cocoa touch or Android's java API.
There is so much great software available for GNU/Linux that we have the potential to tap into, and many of them can be made to work on a 5" touchscreen with a little bit of elbow grease. Firefox OS and Ubuntu phones failed because they ignored the giant stack of software sitting right in front of us. Purism would do well to leverage the software we already have and love, rather than wasting time designing new application models and distribution channels which nobody asked for in the first place.
There's been a hole in my heart since the day the Nokia n900 was discontinued. I've got my fingers crossed on this one.
I imagine they cannot afford to do their own radio chip. And that's already enough to track you.
Android does not seem to be the problem.
When going with custom OS if this phone gets any traction then I'm pretty sure some helpful OS contributor from three-letter-agency will add something from his heart, because by running it you are already signaling that you are an interesting target.
Seems a good phone for those that use Smartphones and have concerns about privacy issues.
In term of applications, is a phone focused in a particular ecosystem: Matrix for encrypted communications and HTML5 Apps. Maybe it will suffer from the same pain as Ubuntu Phone? No native Apps being developed by major Companies? Maybe is a tradeoff that users can live with.
There's also plans to port KDE's mobile stack (including PIM suite) to the librem's operating system, providing at least one fairly comprehensive set of software.
Your bank probably won't ever have an app running on it though, you're right. I think most mobile apps that people use elsewise have decent enough PWAs that it won't be such an issue as long as PWAs are well supported at the UI layer.
Anybody aware of the exact specifications? For camera, screen resolution, battery?
I love the concept but being an average smartphone user I'm sure many people, like me, would like to know more about the basic things that we use everyday (camera for example).
Looking through their website I'm curious why what they're aiming for can't be accomplished with the Android Open Source Project (AOSP) or a fork of it, rather than trying to build yet another smartphone ecosystem from scratch?
I'd love to have a BlackBerry-style phone with a keyboard and all main features are shell-based and implemented in a POSIX-like manner (with an optional GUI on top). But I think this will never happen.
To be honest, the communication of the neo900 project is not that good. They only made two updates during the entire year of 2017 and even those don't say much about what exactly they have been doing all this time.
I'm not implying that they have been fooling around with the money but it gives me the impression that they are not good at planning things and communicating with people.
[+] [-] c0smic|8 years ago|reply
I like the idea of managing my phone like I manage my computer; install whatever OS and software I want on it. Of course, that comes with the additional effort of keeping it well updated and working, and if this is a primary communication device that effort becomes more urgent. But hey, I think that's just what it takes to not be dependent on a corporation that takes my data/info in exchange for device support.
[+] [-] emilsedgh|8 years ago|reply
I don't know what you're talking about.
Almost every 5 years I get a new laptop, install Debian on it and it gets updated just fine forever.
And I customize it to the bone.
[+] [-] yjftsjthsd-h|8 years ago|reply
Yeah, but you actually get the option, and you, the owner of the device, have the power to make it happen.
[+] [-] mikenew|8 years ago|reply
I've been an iOS developer for years and made a comfortable living, but it bothers me on a deep and fundamental level that my primary communication and computing device is controlled by someone else, and the software I'm allowed to run and allowed to distribute is entirely decided by them. I'm willing to risk money if it helps our chances of having an alternative.
[+] [-] shmerl|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] diminish|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mortenjorck|8 years ago|reply
The only possibility I can imagine is that by leaning into a niche market, embracing low-volume but also the community that goes with it, rather than engaging in a quixotic quest to become a viable competitor to the established duopoly, Librem can become sustainable along the lines of niche laptop manufacturer System76. That doesn't seem entirely unreasonable, and it would be pretty cool.
[+] [-] ColanR|8 years ago|reply
https://hackaday.io/project/19035-zerophone-a-raspberry-pi-s...
http://www.davidhunt.ie/piphone-a-raspberry-pi-based-smartph...
[+] [-] s73ver_|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jordigh|8 years ago|reply
I'm excited about Librem, if it is what I think it will be: a phone I can completely trust.
I'm also extremely surprised that it got funded. 1.5e6 USD is not a modest goal given how stingy we usually are about freedom-respecting projects.
[+] [-] shmerl|8 years ago|reply
It would be great to have a device running Linux with native Wayland, and LTE modem separated from the CPU for better security. I just hope they'll go with i.MX 8M so it will be 64-bit.
How is etnaviv for it though? I also wonder what's the level of OpenGL support in it. I suppose Vulkan support isn't even started?
[+] [-] petecox|8 years ago|reply
An e-ink phone with a 3 day battery life! But being a hacker phone, as long as performance isn't too shabby when docked to a regular 3D accelerated LED monitor with Wayland desktop would be a nice balance.
[+] [-] starkruzr|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tom_mellior|8 years ago|reply
I wonder if they had investors all along and only pretended to crowdfund.
(I'm not saying this is a scam or anything. I participated.)
[+] [-] Arathorn|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] __d|8 years ago|reply
As the funding threshold neared, confidence grew, and more people signed up.
It might also just have taken people a week or two to decide to commit a bunch of money to a 15-months away delivery ...
[+] [-] shmerl|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pfooti|8 years ago|reply
My hope is that this is a successful campaign and that a good product is delivered, but the pre-order / crowdfund situation, at best, has an appearance of sketchiness.
[+] [-] mattnewport|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] foota|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] platinumrad|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] JepZ|8 years ago|reply
Nevertheless, I wish them luck and hope they succeed.
[+] [-] madmax108|8 years ago|reply
Can I apt-get install something in this (assuming debian/ubuntu installed) or have it's own app store?
Really interesting, but so many questions unanswered about what I can do with the phone once I buy it.
[+] [-] ZenoArrow|8 years ago|reply
Yes. Any Linux app that runs on ARM. Most desktop apps don't have a UI that works well on mobile, and some apps are pretty much a no-go just because of performance, but aside from that you're free to install the software you want.
> "Can I apt-get install something in this (assuming debian/ubuntu installed) or have it's own app store?"
Yes, you'll be able to use package managers. The proposed phone aims to support multiple distros, including Debian and Ubuntu if you want to use apt-get. The flagship OS for the device is Pure OS, which currently uses GNOME Software as its app store (I'm guessing they might extend it with the option to install commercial software before launch):
https://wiki.gnome.org/Apps/Software
[+] [-] ocdtrekkie|8 years ago|reply
I pitched in $20 to support them, but buying a phone I might not get that I wouldn't be able to use for at least a year that may or may not meet my needs at that time was a bit of a stretch for me. Willing to bet there are many others in the same boat there.
[+] [-] chrisper|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unlmtd|8 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] kepano|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] chx|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wvh|8 years ago|reply
Still, it would be nice to have some hope do be able to do it without relying on manufacturers' goodwill... If ARM gets sufficiently commoditised so it's cheap (both time and money) enough for smaller players to create hardware, surely there must be enough open-source and/or privacy-oriented folks around to come up with a profitable product?
[+] [-] j45|8 years ago|reply
Maybe there's a Oneplus angle here where they can start small and lean with a partner.
[+] [-] chx|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] closeneough|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] zanybear|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] quickben|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] noncoml|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] greenhouse_gas|8 years ago|reply
It's FOSS, Linux-based, has apps and is Mobike-optimized.
[+] [-] uabstraction|8 years ago|reply
There is so much great software available for GNU/Linux that we have the potential to tap into, and many of them can be made to work on a 5" touchscreen with a little bit of elbow grease. Firefox OS and Ubuntu phones failed because they ignored the giant stack of software sitting right in front of us. Purism would do well to leverage the software we already have and love, rather than wasting time designing new application models and distribution channels which nobody asked for in the first place.
There's been a hole in my heart since the day the Nokia n900 was discontinued. I've got my fingers crossed on this one.
[+] [-] comboy|8 years ago|reply
Android does not seem to be the problem.
When going with custom OS if this phone gets any traction then I'm pretty sure some helpful OS contributor from three-letter-agency will add something from his heart, because by running it you are already signaling that you are an interesting target.
[+] [-] andrefreitas|8 years ago|reply
In term of applications, is a phone focused in a particular ecosystem: Matrix for encrypted communications and HTML5 Apps. Maybe it will suffer from the same pain as Ubuntu Phone? No native Apps being developed by major Companies? Maybe is a tradeoff that users can live with.
[+] [-] rrix2|8 years ago|reply
Your bank probably won't ever have an app running on it though, you're right. I think most mobile apps that people use elsewise have decent enough PWAs that it won't be such an issue as long as PWAs are well supported at the UI layer.
[+] [-] sexydefinesher|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nitin_flanker|8 years ago|reply
I love the concept but being an average smartphone user I'm sure many people, like me, would like to know more about the basic things that we use everyday (camera for example).
[+] [-] onion2k|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] paxy|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] subway|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bo1024|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] earlybike|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] fghtr|8 years ago|reply
[0] https://neo900.org
[+] [-] pedroaraujo|8 years ago|reply
I'm not implying that they have been fooling around with the money but it gives me the impression that they are not good at planning things and communicating with people.