There's no evidence that this was due to legalizing marijuana. It's more likely due to first responder's greater access to naloxone.
"In April 2015, Colorado passed a new law, Senate Bill 15-053, expanding access to the life- saving drug naloxone, which is used to reverse overdoses to narcotic drugs, such as certain prescription medications and heroin. ... An individual at risk of overdose."
While this is true, there are quite a few stories, where heroine users write about becoming clean with the use of cannabis. Just search https://www.reddit.com/r/trees and see for yourself if you doubt that.
Also, if you have the numbers of calls to ambulance, you might see a drop there too. But maybe that's also not enough evidence for you.
Comparing the impacts of recreational marijuana laws on opioid deaths seems tricky to me. While there may be correlations I'm not sure there is enough to infer causation.
I'd say they'd want to focus more on the effects of the arrest rates going down. I think that is where you are going to see the biggest positive changes.
That said I think we still need to see marijuanna as a health danger. Much like smoking tobacco, long term irritation of your lungs is not a good thing. I hear a lot of people calling marijuanna a cure all and remember my grandmother telling me how she was told to start smoking as a cure to her anxiety. Not the same, but this was something she told me as I was watching her die slowly from a lifetime of smoking.
More study is always needed for any given substance that we introduce into the envorment/human body. But due to its federal classification it is very hard to do. The major drawback of marijuana ignoring the effect on the lungs is the hit to the reward center if the brain. But the same can be said about any shortcut to a reward. Especially when you consider the potency increase of marijuana since the 70s. The root problem here as with smoking is that humans are goal driven and if they cannot achieve and do, they will find a way to simulate that feeling.
Also the main medical use of marijuana is via CBD not THC which is the high you feel. For myself it relieves my hand tremors and reduces axiety with no high, which I take as a tincture droplet.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabidiol
I agree that smoking in general is probably harmful; marijuana can be vaporized, though, which seems like a good alternative.
One thing that worries me is that, at least around here, teenagers and young adults will often stretch the marijuana they can afford by mixing it with tobacco (from cigarettes). That's another reason for legalization: you get to actually impose rules on sellers, like giving away bags of more healthy filler herbs. Try doing that with the street dealer!
Agree with others in this thread: it's a tough correlation to demonstrate reliably.
HOWEVER, keep in mind that the prior for large parts of the country's leadership is still "OMG WEED IS A GATEWAY TO OPIODS" drug-warrior nonsense. This data certainly makes that interpretation less plausible.
> This data certainly makes that interpretation less plausible.
I still think that because it is possible that people will use weed instead of heron that it makes "nonsense" that people that start using one drug for personal pleasure won't use other drugs for personal pleasure.
What's interesting is the fact that the opioid crisis is a result of a couple of ultra-rich guys wanting to be even richer. Trump appears to be surrounded by people who are willing to sacrifice public health for their private excessive wealth. [0]
It would be nice if common people understood why their health care system makes fun of them (and why cheap and powerful substances such as psilocybin, MDMA, LSD are actively being blocked from receiving the required research funding).
That looks more like noise than something I'd be willing to bet on. Previous years, within that same graph exhibit similar trends to what the highlighted "downward" portion shows.
I agree. I hate that I have to preface this sort of thing by pointing out that I am not against legalization. But, according to that graph, the rate is actually higher after the legalization of marijuana, but the "trend" is down. Except that the trend would have been upwards had you made the stopped measuring at the end of 2014 instead of the end of 2015. And they're cheating by not measuring the trend in the same way for previous years as the post-marijuana years because before the graph the trend is measured as a single line spanning 14 years, while the trend is only for 2 years afterwards. So you'd need to do some sort of running average, or whatever the equivalent is for linear regression. Actually now I'm seriously interested in knowing if there's a running version of linear regression like there is for averages.
> Colorado’s legalization of recreational cannabis sales and use resulted in a 0.7 deaths per month (b = −0.68; 95% confidence interval = −1.34, −0.03) reduction in opioid-related deaths.
Which if I understand right, they're pretty sure it did something, but that something might be so small that the value of reporting it is negligible.
Judging by the actual data, the death count seems to have stabilized and stopped increasing at least. Unfortunately it's hard to tell with that completely bogus "trend" line atop the data.
As usual for popsci reporting, the headline discards any nuance the article may have had — which itself usually goes beyond the claims made in the science. :-(
> The authors stress that their results are preliminary
And we should take this with a huge grain of salt, wait a few more years, and see what the data looks like then.
That graph is very misleading. I don't have access to the published paper which may be accurate, but the article doesn't mention the reduction in opioid deaths from 2008-2010, which appears to be similar to 2014-2016. Also, the title of the graph states the timeline through 2015, but the x axis suggests there is data up to 2016?
Probably unrelated to marijuana. See [1]. In Colorado, opioid overdose deaths decreased 6% in 2016. But heroin overdose deaths went up 22%. This followed a state effort to cut down on opioid prescriptions. The number of high-dose opioid prescriptions for more than 30 days was cut in half from 2015 to 2016.
Like many of these stories, it's a bit shallow - that chart is interesting - but as others have pointed out it's pretty noisy.
However, you can line it up against national data[1] it's really bucking the trend. You also find that opioid prescriptions are at least stable or declining in Colorado. Again, against the national trend that's significant.
Equally, you see spikes in Heroin deaths - so picture is a lot more complex than that chart.
I wonder how that heroin stat will compare over a longer term. From what I understand, a common suggestion is that overprescription of opiods leads to abuse. Then removal of the prescription, tolerance gains, or financial considerations push the user to heroin. And once a user is hooked on that, I think introducing marijuana as an alternative is not going to have as much impact. But if reducing number of opiod prescriptions leads to fewer heroin users, I would expect there to be a measurable impact at some point over a longer term, at least in comparison to national trend.
In the article's main image, cited directly from the paper in question (https://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/files/2017/10/...), there doesn't really appear to be much of a correlation. Looking at the high variance in the opioid death data (because there are - fortunately - so few samples), so I'm not really certain if one can extrapolate a trend so soon after the legislation was enacted. The data simply appears to be too noisy. Even the paper states that the upper limit of its 95% confidence interval is a net reduction in deaths by a whopping... 0.03 per month.
I've said this before, but; by all means, we should embrace the (clearly very real) medical value of this plant by allocating funding and legal frameworks to research it properly. Lots of current cannabis research is plagued by bad experimental methodology, statistically insignificant conclusions, extrapolation of non-existent trends, and broad hand-wavey statements that aren't really backed up by facts, and it's a shame because it cheapens the value of a genuinely promising medical treatment that offers hope for people suffering from a litany of conditions (myself included).
Someone needs to study the effects of weed smoke on the lungs. That's the most common way to consume cannabis and I have a feeling it harms the lungs similar to the effects of smoking cigarettes.
Not an expert but I'm sure inhaling any kind of smoke is not good for the lungs but you don't smoke 20 Marijuana cigarettes a day like you would tobacco. It's not consumed in the same quantities. The biggest difference between the two are that the Tobacco companies add a lot of chemicals to their product that can cause cancer. I would think that Marijuana is organic.
I'm actively working on this. We've built lab equipment for academic researchers to run the ongoing study.
Further, second hand smoke from cannabis is worse than second hand smoke from tobacco!
>One minute of exposure to marijuana SHS substantially impairs endothelial function in rats for at least 90 minutes, considerably longer than comparable impairment by tobacco SHS.
I'm very suspicious of this claim for users in Colorado without a source. Anecdotally, the vast majority of legal use I see in Colorado is edibles. They don't have the stigma of smoking or the (legitimate) smoke inhalation concerns and thus seem much more popular among legal users.
I suspect you're right, but I believe (not a user myself) most users consume many fewer joints than cigarettes. I've known many "2 packs a day" tobacco users, but never someone who smokes so much weed. I'd guess that average marijuana users have similar lung issues to 'light' smokers.
That has been studied, of course. It's hard to believe most information about cannabis due to the decades of government-corporate propaganda against it.
Tobacco is highly toxic. Cannabis is not at all toxic, and in fact beneficial. That makes a difference in the smoke.
I read a report from the UK saying that cannabis's antioxidants and other helpful chemicals made up for any harm it caused by smoke.
One can vape anyway, and most serious enthusiasts dab.
Correlation does not equal causation. This is Yellow Journalism at its finest. The researchers even stated that their "results are preliminary" and not final, but of course the media runs with everything.
The -most important- subject about Marijuana nowadays, is about being arrested by smoking a joint. I do think.
It's a great thing that we have authorities, but we chase for a better concept for what is 'legal'.
So, while the "opioid deaths" may not have "fall following marijuana legalization" (In Colorado), the world does have great news about the legalization itself.
State/Fed. government: Let's make recreational marijuana legal!
Citizens: Awesome! We all feel relaxed, and those of us dealing with pain feel much better, and we're not dying from over-doses; yay! ...But, uh-oh, a few more car fatalities...what to do?
State/Fed. government: Let's build hypertube all over the state!
Citizens: Unsafe drivers - including drinkers AND smokers - simply take the hypertube home; fatalities have taken a nosedive yay! Second benefit: individual and state costs typically associated with maintaining cars and roads for cars (to support long work commutes) goes down, and overall traffic congestion is diminished; yay! ...But uh-oh, our healthcare costs are still pretty high, since now the likes of Pfizer, Merck, etc. are legally producing marijuana, and not cheaply, what to do?
State/Fed. government: With the infrastructure funds now more narrowly focused on supporting efforts such as hypertube, re-allocate (as appropriate and legal) the remaining, unused funds to help bring down health care costs...Either through government tax breaks (just plain giving this unused money back to citizens) for citizens to pay their healthcare insurance...OR...to buy their own marijuana at retail...OR...use these remaining, unused funds to subsidize programs like ACA.
Citizens: Yay! ...But uh-oh, now that marijuana is legal there are less people being put into jails...and now the jail lobby is whining, what to do?
State/Fed. government: Invite the people who might otherwise be sent to prison (or who have been freed from prison after being unfairly jailed for minor amounts of weed) and have them work as construction workers building the country's hypertube network. A likely side-effect is that the private companies running the jails will surely convert into hypertube construction/management companies, but hey jobs, right!?!
Citizens: Yay! Long-term problems - while not solved yet - are on the mend...but, uh-oh, it appears while sending our satellits to other planets, we disrupted the hybernation of some war-like aliens, and they're bent on attacking us with their advanced technology, strategically planning to strike the most powerful nations on earth first! What to do?
State/Fed. government: ... ... ...
Citizens: Hello? Hello!?! Did you hear our pleas about the pending alien attack? Hello? Is there anyone there in the government offices? where the hellz did they all go???? somebody help us; these guns we have are worthless against these aliens! Heeeeeelllpp!!! ... ... ...
Narrator: Apologies for the levity on serious matters. My whole point is to remember that things don't exist in isolation...and maybe there will always be good and bad side-effects that get triggered from one major legislation change. Nevertheless, the country has lived through Prohibition, and there are expected patterns that likely emerge. So, i say, marijuana should definitely be legalized, though let's have a plan to be ready for any unexpected fallout, should they manifest. Cheers!
oh god just enough with the propoganda already. only 0.1% of marijuanna smokers actually need it as a medicine, everyboyd else is simply a pothead. stop praising the thing like its a fucking elixir sent to save the humanity
Created an account just to vote this up and agree.
Personally, I enjoy smoking/using marijuana. I think it should be legal. I agree with all the typical talking point about legalizing it and the social harm caused by the drug war.
But nothing is more annoying that potheads pretending that some minor study somewhere showing that marijuana has some minor positive effect on something or other means it's a "miracle drug."
What is even worse - various nefarious actors - from intelligence agencies, to Big Pharma, to various players with their own agendas, have a long history of, and a very obvious financial/power stake in, promoting - or perhaps over-promoting - certain social trends, including recreational drug use - and have co-opted a HUGE group of people who should know better to exaggerate the benefits of various things.
St. John's Wart, ten years ago, was "just as effective as Prozac," and everyone was talking about "herbal remedies." The reality was that daily exercise was, for most people, "just as effective as Prozac" but that doesn't have the "cool factor" of being "like, against the drug war, man."
Intelligence agencies have been trying to use drugs like LSD for a half-century to do what in their own lingo is "mind control" yet every time some ad supported, Fortune 500, In-Q-Tel publication like Wired.com tells us how "all the super-smart Silicon Valley execs are micro-dosing on LSD" even hinting at a slight objection will get you downvoted to hell on these social media sites like Hacker News and reddit.
There's a reason for that but no one wants to risk their social media karma pointing it out - you might be accused of being a "alt right neo-nazi trump kkk racist sexist homphobica" something or other.
Even if marijuana were objectively bad to use for every possible purpose, I would still be in favor of it being legalized because prohibition is almost always worse.
I don't smoke or drink but what is your opinion about Alcohol drinkers are they all drunks? What about Opiate users are they all pill poppers?
Marijuana has been used for millennia as medicine why all the hate? Let it help the sick people and let the others enjoy it's other aspects. No one will force a joint into your mouth. You will be safe...
[+] [-] sparrish|8 years ago|reply
"In April 2015, Colorado passed a new law, Senate Bill 15-053, expanding access to the life- saving drug naloxone, which is used to reverse overdoses to narcotic drugs, such as certain prescription medications and heroin. ... An individual at risk of overdose."
[+] [-] code_duck|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rmetzler|8 years ago|reply
Also, if you have the numbers of calls to ambulance, you might see a drop there too. But maybe that's also not enough evidence for you.
[+] [-] elf_code|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] xupybd|8 years ago|reply
I'd say they'd want to focus more on the effects of the arrest rates going down. I think that is where you are going to see the biggest positive changes.
That said I think we still need to see marijuanna as a health danger. Much like smoking tobacco, long term irritation of your lungs is not a good thing. I hear a lot of people calling marijuanna a cure all and remember my grandmother telling me how she was told to start smoking as a cure to her anxiety. Not the same, but this was something she told me as I was watching her die slowly from a lifetime of smoking.
[+] [-] Individualist|8 years ago|reply
Also the main medical use of marijuana is via CBD not THC which is the high you feel. For myself it relieves my hand tremors and reduces axiety with no high, which I take as a tincture droplet. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabidiol
[+] [-] icebraining|8 years ago|reply
One thing that worries me is that, at least around here, teenagers and young adults will often stretch the marijuana they can afford by mixing it with tobacco (from cigarettes). That's another reason for legalization: you get to actually impose rules on sellers, like giving away bags of more healthy filler herbs. Try doing that with the street dealer!
[+] [-] al2o3cr|8 years ago|reply
HOWEVER, keep in mind that the prior for large parts of the country's leadership is still "OMG WEED IS A GATEWAY TO OPIODS" drug-warrior nonsense. This data certainly makes that interpretation less plausible.
[+] [-] baldfat|8 years ago|reply
I still think that because it is possible that people will use weed instead of heron that it makes "nonsense" that people that start using one drug for personal pleasure won't use other drugs for personal pleasure.
[+] [-] benevol|8 years ago|reply
It would be nice if common people understood why their health care system makes fun of them (and why cheap and powerful substances such as psilocybin, MDMA, LSD are actively being blocked from receiving the required research funding).
[0] http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41643080
[+] [-] adventured|8 years ago|reply
"Rep. Tom Marino withdraws from consideration as drug czar following uproar over his role in opioid legislation"
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/17/trump-says-rep-tom-marino-wi...
[+] [-] kolbe|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] saiya-jin|8 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] gravypod|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] c3534l|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mrmagooey|8 years ago|reply
> Colorado’s legalization of recreational cannabis sales and use resulted in a 0.7 deaths per month (b = −0.68; 95% confidence interval = −1.34, −0.03) reduction in opioid-related deaths.
Which if I understand right, they're pretty sure it did something, but that something might be so small that the value of reporting it is negligible.
[+] [-] whatever_dude|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] imron|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] loeg|8 years ago|reply
> The authors stress that their results are preliminary
And we should take this with a huge grain of salt, wait a few more years, and see what the data looks like then.
[+] [-] elf_code|8 years ago|reply
edit
Sorry, I'm asking about the "previous years similar trends".
[+] [-] nprecup|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mirajshah|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Animats|8 years ago|reply
Overview of heroin boom in Colorado: [2]
[1] https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/sites/default/files/Opioid%...
[2] https://localtvkdvr.files.wordpress.com/2017/04/heroin-in-co...
[+] [-] jwilliams|8 years ago|reply
However, you can line it up against national data[1] it's really bucking the trend. You also find that opioid prescriptions are at least stable or declining in Colorado. Again, against the national trend that's significant.
Equally, you see spikes in Heroin deaths - so picture is a lot more complex than that chart.
[1] https://www.drugabuse.gov/related-topics/trends-statistics/o...
[+] [-] heroprotagonist|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cnewey|8 years ago|reply
I've said this before, but; by all means, we should embrace the (clearly very real) medical value of this plant by allocating funding and legal frameworks to research it properly. Lots of current cannabis research is plagued by bad experimental methodology, statistically insignificant conclusions, extrapolation of non-existent trends, and broad hand-wavey statements that aren't really backed up by facts, and it's a shame because it cheapens the value of a genuinely promising medical treatment that offers hope for people suffering from a litany of conditions (myself included).
[+] [-] dingo_bat|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hourislate|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mklod|8 years ago|reply
Further, second hand smoke from cannabis is worse than second hand smoke from tobacco!
>One minute of exposure to marijuana SHS substantially impairs endothelial function in rats for at least 90 minutes, considerably longer than comparable impairment by tobacco SHS.
DOI: 10.1161/JAHA.116.003858
[+] [-] pilom|8 years ago|reply
I'm very suspicious of this claim for users in Colorado without a source. Anecdotally, the vast majority of legal use I see in Colorado is edibles. They don't have the stigma of smoking or the (legitimate) smoke inhalation concerns and thus seem much more popular among legal users.
[+] [-] lkozloff|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] KGIII|8 years ago|reply
Note, I do smoke pot and cigars. I'm pretty sure both are bad for me.
[+] [-] code_duck|8 years ago|reply
Tobacco is highly toxic. Cannabis is not at all toxic, and in fact beneficial. That makes a difference in the smoke.
I read a report from the UK saying that cannabis's antioxidants and other helpful chemicals made up for any harm it caused by smoke.
One can vape anyway, and most serious enthusiasts dab.
[+] [-] unknown|8 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] PatientTrader|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] irritant|8 years ago|reply
http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a46918/heroin-mexico-el...
"Okay, I'm going to say it: The heroin epidemic was caused by the legalization of marijuana."
[+] [-] elf_code|8 years ago|reply
It's a great thing that we have authorities, but we chase for a better concept for what is 'legal'.
So, while the "opioid deaths" may not have "fall following marijuana legalization" (In Colorado), the world does have great news about the legalization itself.
[+] [-] JulianMorrison|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mxuribe|8 years ago|reply
Citizens: Awesome! We all feel relaxed, and those of us dealing with pain feel much better, and we're not dying from over-doses; yay! ...But, uh-oh, a few more car fatalities...what to do?
State/Fed. government: Let's build hypertube all over the state!
Citizens: Unsafe drivers - including drinkers AND smokers - simply take the hypertube home; fatalities have taken a nosedive yay! Second benefit: individual and state costs typically associated with maintaining cars and roads for cars (to support long work commutes) goes down, and overall traffic congestion is diminished; yay! ...But uh-oh, our healthcare costs are still pretty high, since now the likes of Pfizer, Merck, etc. are legally producing marijuana, and not cheaply, what to do?
State/Fed. government: With the infrastructure funds now more narrowly focused on supporting efforts such as hypertube, re-allocate (as appropriate and legal) the remaining, unused funds to help bring down health care costs...Either through government tax breaks (just plain giving this unused money back to citizens) for citizens to pay their healthcare insurance...OR...to buy their own marijuana at retail...OR...use these remaining, unused funds to subsidize programs like ACA.
Citizens: Yay! ...But uh-oh, now that marijuana is legal there are less people being put into jails...and now the jail lobby is whining, what to do?
State/Fed. government: Invite the people who might otherwise be sent to prison (or who have been freed from prison after being unfairly jailed for minor amounts of weed) and have them work as construction workers building the country's hypertube network. A likely side-effect is that the private companies running the jails will surely convert into hypertube construction/management companies, but hey jobs, right!?!
Citizens: Yay! Long-term problems - while not solved yet - are on the mend...but, uh-oh, it appears while sending our satellits to other planets, we disrupted the hybernation of some war-like aliens, and they're bent on attacking us with their advanced technology, strategically planning to strike the most powerful nations on earth first! What to do?
State/Fed. government: ... ... ...
Citizens: Hello? Hello!?! Did you hear our pleas about the pending alien attack? Hello? Is there anyone there in the government offices? where the hellz did they all go???? somebody help us; these guns we have are worthless against these aliens! Heeeeeelllpp!!! ... ... ...
Narrator: Apologies for the levity on serious matters. My whole point is to remember that things don't exist in isolation...and maybe there will always be good and bad side-effects that get triggered from one major legislation change. Nevertheless, the country has lived through Prohibition, and there are expected patterns that likely emerge. So, i say, marijuana should definitely be legalized, though let's have a plan to be ready for any unexpected fallout, should they manifest. Cheers!
[+] [-] elvirs|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sctb|8 years ago|reply
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
[+] [-] agreewiththis|8 years ago|reply
Personally, I enjoy smoking/using marijuana. I think it should be legal. I agree with all the typical talking point about legalizing it and the social harm caused by the drug war.
But nothing is more annoying that potheads pretending that some minor study somewhere showing that marijuana has some minor positive effect on something or other means it's a "miracle drug."
What is even worse - various nefarious actors - from intelligence agencies, to Big Pharma, to various players with their own agendas, have a long history of, and a very obvious financial/power stake in, promoting - or perhaps over-promoting - certain social trends, including recreational drug use - and have co-opted a HUGE group of people who should know better to exaggerate the benefits of various things.
St. John's Wart, ten years ago, was "just as effective as Prozac," and everyone was talking about "herbal remedies." The reality was that daily exercise was, for most people, "just as effective as Prozac" but that doesn't have the "cool factor" of being "like, against the drug war, man."
Intelligence agencies have been trying to use drugs like LSD for a half-century to do what in their own lingo is "mind control" yet every time some ad supported, Fortune 500, In-Q-Tel publication like Wired.com tells us how "all the super-smart Silicon Valley execs are micro-dosing on LSD" even hinting at a slight objection will get you downvoted to hell on these social media sites like Hacker News and reddit.
There's a reason for that but no one wants to risk their social media karma pointing it out - you might be accused of being a "alt right neo-nazi trump kkk racist sexist homphobica" something or other.
[+] [-] NathanWilliams|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] empath75|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pstuart|8 years ago|reply
It's a drug. Yes. It has medicinal value but most people like the recreational aspects of it. Deal with it.
[+] [-] hourislate|8 years ago|reply
Marijuana has been used for millennia as medicine why all the hate? Let it help the sick people and let the others enjoy it's other aspects. No one will force a joint into your mouth. You will be safe...
[+] [-] csours|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mklod|8 years ago|reply
>"When I first started this project, I really thought of medical marijuana as a joke"
http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2015/07/14/42287697...