The nickel-and-diming of airlines has been clear to me for ages, but I found what I considered a surprising new low last year. I bought round-trip tickets but missed my outgoing flight. I booked a one-way trip for later the same day, reasoning that I would use my original return flight to come home.
Surprise! I found out (at the airport, trying to fly home a few days later) that because I hadn’t boarded the first flight, the airline had resold my seat on the return flight. I was not credited for the seat on the return flight (which was now unavailable to me). I wasn’t even notified that it was forfeited when my trip was cancelled. Pressed for time, I had to purchase an additional one-way ticket home.
I understand the motivation to resell an unused seat at flight time in the event of a no-show. This, however, struck me as a deliberate predatory theft of my reservation, a sort of loophole to deprive me of my reservation without recompense. I don’t think a scenario such as this is unforeseen by the airline (an honest misunderstanding); rather, I think it is exploited.
The airline may have a clause somewhere on their website explaining that the above is to be expected. That doesn’t make it square for me. The behavior of the airline was, IMO, unethical. If I ever face a similar scenario in the future, I will know to communicate explicitly with the airline about my intention to use my return ticket. However, I shouldn’t have to do so or risk finding myself stranded away from home.
Which airline? Did a staff member assist you in rescheduling your missed flight? I’ve never been told to ignore my missed flight and rebook a new one-way separately. Any flights I’ve been late for, the airline rebooked me for a later flight on the same reservation without any additional fees.
I believe the main reason for this is to prevent people from getting cheaper tickets for short trips by making two separate reservations.
Some airlines charge higher prices if you spend only night or two in destination (probably because these are usually business trips and business people have money). So back in the days you actually booked separate return trips to the destination and only used one part of each trip.
The trouble is that airlines want to sell the same product with many prices. Get maximum price from business traveler, while still competing also for the price conscious holiday traveler.
This has been going on for years, I had a worse experience. I book my christmas flights super early and had to change the outgoing flight. Found a reasonable flight on a different airline, so all i wanted to do is cancel the outgoing portion of the flight. Having been burned by a similar experience to yours in the past, so knew I had to call the airline.
Website says its not possible so I call them up. Apparently they cant cancel half the flight, they have to cancel and rebook, minus change fee, plus the difference in fare - insane due to it now being close to christmas. I ended up paying money to cancel half of my flight.
I have a relative who moved to the US a couple of years ago. A one-way ticket costed _more_ than a round-trip, so he and his family bought roundtrip tickets. They flew normally but obviously never caught the flight back.
The airline later cancelled his platinum frequent flying status and charged him with the difference threatening to sue for fraud.
This has been standard across airlines for more than a decade. It's to prevent people from taking advantage of cheaper legs that comprise a multi-leg trip.
Same thing happened to me only I got stranded at the airport Fuzhou, hours from my relatives and with no means to buy a ticket. If they had at least notified me of the cancellation I could have scheduled a flight in advance.
There’s an informal flat-tire rule to help travelers if they miss their flight but still show up at the airport within a reasonable time, but passengers who skip a flight entirely will find their entire ticket cancelled. The specific rule is that flight coupons must be used in order.
The flight reservation has changed if you're a no show for the first flight. They want a change fee. So if you don't give them a change fee, they basically apply a punitive "ok fine the whole ticket is cancelled and we keep your money".
A similar thing happen to me but on a multi-leg flight and they allowed me to board. I was told that if I was going to miss an outgoing flight, and wanted to use the return, then contact them in advance and the forfeit wouldn’t happen.
>The airline may have a clause somewhere on their website explaining that the above is to be expected. That doesn’t make it square for me. The behavior of the airline was, IMO, unethical.
Says everyone in every scenario where they run up against terms of services they agreed to but didn't read. I understand the sentiment, human beings don't like their assumptions being completed destroyed by reality.
And fyi, your situation would have occurred ages ago, as airlines have been canceling unused itineraries for years to prevent fare hacking, among other things.
>However, I shouldn’t have to do so or risk finding myself stranded away from home.
Because the airline should be omnipotent as to why you missed your flight and accommodate you correctly as to your uncommunicated intentions?
Southwest Airlines does not play these games (the first 2 checked bags are free and canceling your ticket before the flight gives you a voucher for the full fare you paid to use in the future). It also does not have fares listed with the airline ticket search sites. They usually have good fares, decent service, and on time flights. I try and fly them when ever I can get a direct flight with them.
I understand why they keep growing and wish other airlines would try their style. I try to choose companies with friendly business practices, even if it costs a bit more sometimes.
The new "basic economy" fares are the ones that piss me off.
For ~16 months, I've been taking the same handful of United flights between the same locations every few weeks. When they launched "basic economy" they insisted that they would just lower the price for people who didn't care about having a carry on, assigned seats, etc.
Not surprisingly, the basic economy fare is what I was paying before and to get all the "perks" like having a carry on, assigned seating or even having the miles count towards status, it's an extra $20-30 each way.
This drives me nuts - not only is it more money, but it seems that most of the people with Economy-- tickets don't realize it and get into fights with the gate agents. It's amazing how effective it is for turning all of the people in the airport against each other.
We hit a nice little trap while booking our tickets for Christmas (Copenhagen to Stuttgart). The outgoing flight was Lufthansa "Economy Basic", which includes checked luggage. But the return flight was "Economy Light", which doesn't include checked luggage.
Since we would actually like to take our bags home with us, it effectively added a hidden fee on top of the original price, just so it would show as "luggage included" in the aggregator.
Same thing happened to Brazilian carriers in general.
Law stated that every domestic flight fare within Brazil must include a 23kg checked bag, every international flight fare into and out of Brazil must include two(!!) 32kg checked bags.
Then the law changed and no more checked bag minimums, people cheered and airline promised lower fares, lo and behold, no more checked bags at domestic and one 23kg piece at international flights, but the prices have only gone up.
Travelled in the US earlier this year on 3 regional carriers. I realise this is only an anecdote, but I was surprised by a number of things:
- tickets stated as direct included a hidden stop and change of plane.
- there was an extra charge for a checked bag.
- the checked bag was promptly lost on my first flight and returned to me after 5 days.
- on one united flight, we had to wait on the tarmac for 1hr45 min while a guy sat each wing of the plane in turn refuelling it with a gas-pump style hose through a port on the wing. This was because the central rapid-fuelling system on the plane was broken.
- interior of aircraft was shabby. In one plane they had retrofitted LED lighting in the cabin, but it was too narrow and so exposed hull insulation and other structures in the gap.
- seats felt much closer together than usual. What on earth do you do if you're above average height in the US?
- price! Unbelievably expensive to fly between cities in the US. In SE Asia or Europe I have travelled between similar sized cities and similar distances for well under half the price in the US and at shorter notice.
What ever the airlines may tell you in the US, from the perspective of an outsider, I'm pretty sure they're ripping you off!
The prices are because of the recent big airline mergers (Alaska/Virgin America 2016, US Air/American '13, United/Continental '10, Delta/Northwest '09) [1].
United does its heavy maintenance in Beijing, China [2], so some maintenance issues are inevitable. I find it amazing that their planes even fly, it must be a huge logistical hassle.
Regional domestic travel in the US is shit — it’s not particularly profitable, and ends up with many monopolies. Flying between major cities/hubs is generally comfortable and efficient, albeit a hair expensive, but trying to go anywhere small is problematic.
What makes the PR situation around this worse is a lot of once-a-year flyers traveling to see family for Christmas (or weddings or funerals) have this as their flying experience. This is both subject to delays (because winter, and specific circled dates on a calendar) and often is when the system is running near full capacity. Thus, air travel as most people experience it is very different from air travel as experienced on most trips — the denominator matters, but it is hard to solve.
Flying in the US usually has less service and higher prices than Europe. It's often cheaper to fly from Europe to the US than within the US. European airlines also started charging for some extras but it's nowhere near the level of the US.
Population density is likely the explanation. In Europe most people fly between major city, small cities are often connected by rail to the next airport. That keeps costs low and makes competition easier. In the US there are few direct connections with a lot of demand so that you need to provide a network, increasing barriers of entrance.
How is a hidden stop possible? Wouldn't you be able to look at total flight times and see that it's estimated to take an extra 45+ minutes on that flight than other direct flights?
Airlines (in the US, mostly) are incentivized to add these fees for two major reasons:
1. Fees are exempt from the 7.5% federal excise tax on airfare.
2. It makes the initial fare lower on airfare sites like Kayak, for people who choose the cheapest route, then they up-sell customers once they've decided.
As someone who literally _just_ ranted on Twitter (and on their 1990s style, "/start.tk" issue website) that Turkish Airlines has never once replied to my messages after losing my bag on the 26th of October: I wish there were a central, democratic review system for airlines, outing them for all their faults. Paying for checked in bags is not fun if the bag doesn't arrive. Fighting for (soon) two weeks to get back what is yours is no fun either.
Any public outrage about airline practices gets my upvote..
(I understand that for certain routes you cannot really choose someone else..)
The economy (or even "premium") customer service on most of my recent flights has been awful. In most other U.S. service industries (restaurants, bars, etc), the staff is incentivized to serve you and increase sales and get tips. I've been on many 3-5HR flights where you see a flight attendant at most twice, and the attendants seem almost required to do the least. It comes across as if the airline firms are trying to make things as uncomfortable as possible to upsell to first/business.
Flight attendants aren't really there for service. Their primarily responsibility is supposed to be safety. Serving snacks is just a courtesy. You can always bring your own, or walk to the galley and ask for something.
How many times do you need to see a stewardess on a 3 to 5 hour flight though? What do you need from them during that time? I'm not sure what you're expecting from them.
We’re in a golden age of flying for both airlines and passengers. If you want 1960s style service, first class tickets are cheaper today than the cheapest tickets were back then.
The reason airlines nickel and dime is Americans’ preference for cheaper tickets over almost anything else. The bulk of the remaining demand comes from frequent fliers, who are exempted from most fees, or business travellers, who are too profitable to risk pissing off.
I sometimes fantasize about having one of these companies as a client and billing them with fees mirroring the ones they charge i.e. add a fee for “mandated federal and state taxes” (my income taxes), maybe an “internet surcharge” and of course a “fuel surcharge”. My biggest expense next year will be insurance so I’ll definately add an “insurance fee” that in there as well. I’m getting giddy just thinking about it...
In recent years, the only decent experiences I've had flying have been with JetBlue, European national carriers, and WOW.
JetBlue and the European carriers still offer decent service and don't nickel and dime everything. They let you check a bag or two. The gate and flight staff are competent and relatively efficient. The aircraft are clean, well-maintained, and modern. The European carriers even feed you. It's almost as good as flying was before 2000.
WOW is a cut-rate airline, and they're upfront about it.
The other major carriers are a dumpster fire. I won't even try to fly United or American or Delta anymore.
JetBlue is definitely one of the better US carriers for those who don't have status. (I typically fly United but I have relatively high status on them.)
But JetBlue has adopted a lot of the fee structures of the legacy carriers. They do charge extra for checked luggage now. They have pay for more legroom seats (although their regular seat pitch isn't bad by economy standards). They have pay for early boarding. Their change fees have gone up.
Unless you're going away for two weeks or more, cabin luggage really should be all you need. Pack smart and pack light, think long and hard about which clothes you're actually going to need. If you're bringing bulky items of clothing (such as hiking boots), wear them on the plane. Don't bring a bunch of extra stuff "just in case", odds are you'll be able to buy whatever it is at your destination.
Most airlines allow 55x40x20cm(-ish) size cabin luggage, plus a so-called personal item, which can be as big as 40x30x15cm on some airlines, or described as a purse, a handbag or a slim laptop bag. Sometimes the weight is included in the cabin luggage allowance, sometimes it's not, so you have to check the terms for each airline. This will let you bring a bit of extra luggage, or at least make sure your laptop isn't taking up a bunch of space in your cabin luggage.
This may seem like a bunch of needless extra work when packing, for saving a small fee, but it also means you won't have to waste time at the luggage carousel, and it will be much less hassle if you have to go by taxi or public transport. And of course your luggage won't be at the mercy of underpaid and possibly careless luggage workers.
So, what does a carry-on bag really cost an airline anyway?
Is it reasonable to discourage it because the airline needs to pay the airports for each bag and the ability to carry non-passenger cargo is reduced that much?
The airlines cost are based on weight, as that determines the fuel use for the flight (not including in-flight variances that would also contribute to fuel costs).
[+] [-] alsetmusic|8 years ago|reply
Surprise! I found out (at the airport, trying to fly home a few days later) that because I hadn’t boarded the first flight, the airline had resold my seat on the return flight. I was not credited for the seat on the return flight (which was now unavailable to me). I wasn’t even notified that it was forfeited when my trip was cancelled. Pressed for time, I had to purchase an additional one-way ticket home.
I understand the motivation to resell an unused seat at flight time in the event of a no-show. This, however, struck me as a deliberate predatory theft of my reservation, a sort of loophole to deprive me of my reservation without recompense. I don’t think a scenario such as this is unforeseen by the airline (an honest misunderstanding); rather, I think it is exploited.
The airline may have a clause somewhere on their website explaining that the above is to be expected. That doesn’t make it square for me. The behavior of the airline was, IMO, unethical. If I ever face a similar scenario in the future, I will know to communicate explicitly with the airline about my intention to use my return ticket. However, I shouldn’t have to do so or risk finding myself stranded away from home.
[+] [-] pxeboot|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jtokoph|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jpalomaki|8 years ago|reply
Some airlines charge higher prices if you spend only night or two in destination (probably because these are usually business trips and business people have money). So back in the days you actually booked separate return trips to the destination and only used one part of each trip.
The trouble is that airlines want to sell the same product with many prices. Get maximum price from business traveler, while still competing also for the price conscious holiday traveler.
[+] [-] idunno246|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] robteix|8 years ago|reply
The airline later cancelled his platinum frequent flying status and charged him with the difference threatening to sue for fraud.
EDIT: typo
[+] [-] refurb|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] CoolGuySteve|8 years ago|reply
Don't fly China Southern.
[+] [-] saryant|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gpderetta|8 years ago|reply
Apparently this is illegal in EU, but you'll have to fight to get your money back.
[+] [-] cmurf|8 years ago|reply
I think it's theft also.
[+] [-] Justin_K|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] decasteve|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] chaosbutters314|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Brockenstein|8 years ago|reply
Says everyone in every scenario where they run up against terms of services they agreed to but didn't read. I understand the sentiment, human beings don't like their assumptions being completed destroyed by reality.
And fyi, your situation would have occurred ages ago, as airlines have been canceling unused itineraries for years to prevent fare hacking, among other things.
>However, I shouldn’t have to do so or risk finding myself stranded away from home.
Because the airline should be omnipotent as to why you missed your flight and accommodate you correctly as to your uncommunicated intentions?
[+] [-] njarboe|8 years ago|reply
I understand why they keep growing and wish other airlines would try their style. I try to choose companies with friendly business practices, even if it costs a bit more sometimes.
[+] [-] tyingq|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ransom1538|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] waqf|8 years ago|reply
I think I'll give that a miss.
[+] [-] caseysoftware|8 years ago|reply
For ~16 months, I've been taking the same handful of United flights between the same locations every few weeks. When they launched "basic economy" they insisted that they would just lower the price for people who didn't care about having a carry on, assigned seats, etc.
Not surprisingly, the basic economy fare is what I was paying before and to get all the "perks" like having a carry on, assigned seating or even having the miles count towards status, it's an extra $20-30 each way.
They f*d us nicely there.
[+] [-] BostonEnginerd|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] KozmoNau7|8 years ago|reply
Since we would actually like to take our bags home with us, it effectively added a hidden fee on top of the original price, just so it would show as "luggage included" in the aggregator.
[+] [-] mrisoli|8 years ago|reply
Law stated that every domestic flight fare within Brazil must include a 23kg checked bag, every international flight fare into and out of Brazil must include two(!!) 32kg checked bags.
Then the law changed and no more checked bag minimums, people cheered and airline promised lower fares, lo and behold, no more checked bags at domestic and one 23kg piece at international flights, but the prices have only gone up.
[+] [-] chesimov|8 years ago|reply
- tickets stated as direct included a hidden stop and change of plane.
- there was an extra charge for a checked bag.
- the checked bag was promptly lost on my first flight and returned to me after 5 days.
- on one united flight, we had to wait on the tarmac for 1hr45 min while a guy sat each wing of the plane in turn refuelling it with a gas-pump style hose through a port on the wing. This was because the central rapid-fuelling system on the plane was broken.
- interior of aircraft was shabby. In one plane they had retrofitted LED lighting in the cabin, but it was too narrow and so exposed hull insulation and other structures in the gap.
- seats felt much closer together than usual. What on earth do you do if you're above average height in the US?
- price! Unbelievably expensive to fly between cities in the US. In SE Asia or Europe I have travelled between similar sized cities and similar distances for well under half the price in the US and at shorter notice.
What ever the airlines may tell you in the US, from the perspective of an outsider, I'm pretty sure they're ripping you off!
Edit: formatting
[+] [-] greeneggs|8 years ago|reply
United does its heavy maintenance in Beijing, China [2], so some maintenance issues are inevitable. I find it amazing that their planes even fly, it must be a huge logistical hassle.
[1] http://airlines.org/dataset/u-s-airline-mergers-and-acquisit...
[2] https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2015/11/airplane-maintenance...
(When this Vanity Fair article was written, 2015, American still did major maintenance in the US, but apparently not for much longer: http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2017/08/25/american-airli... )
[+] [-] jowiar|8 years ago|reply
What makes the PR situation around this worse is a lot of once-a-year flyers traveling to see family for Christmas (or weddings or funerals) have this as their flying experience. This is both subject to delays (because winter, and specific circled dates on a calendar) and often is when the system is running near full capacity. Thus, air travel as most people experience it is very different from air travel as experienced on most trips — the denominator matters, but it is hard to solve.
[+] [-] dx034|8 years ago|reply
Population density is likely the explanation. In Europe most people fly between major city, small cities are often connected by rail to the next airport. That keeps costs low and makes competition easier. In the US there are few direct connections with a lot of demand so that you need to provide a network, increasing barriers of entrance.
[+] [-] Jdam|8 years ago|reply
„What is the best US carrier? - Lufthansa“
[+] [-] whamlastxmas|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rchowe|8 years ago|reply
1. Fees are exempt from the 7.5% federal excise tax on airfare. 2. It makes the initial fare lower on airfare sites like Kayak, for people who choose the cheapest route, then they up-sell customers once they've decided.
[+] [-] pxeboot|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] darklajid|8 years ago|reply
Any public outrage about airline practices gets my upvote..
(I understand that for certain routes you cannot really choose someone else..)
[+] [-] selimthegrim|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bickfordb|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nradov|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] chrisseaton|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] JumpCrisscross|8 years ago|reply
The reason airlines nickel and dime is Americans’ preference for cheaper tickets over almost anything else. The bulk of the remaining demand comes from frequent fliers, who are exempted from most fees, or business travellers, who are too profitable to risk pissing off.
[+] [-] chrisbennet|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] megaman22|8 years ago|reply
JetBlue and the European carriers still offer decent service and don't nickel and dime everything. They let you check a bag or two. The gate and flight staff are competent and relatively efficient. The aircraft are clean, well-maintained, and modern. The European carriers even feed you. It's almost as good as flying was before 2000.
WOW is a cut-rate airline, and they're upfront about it.
The other major carriers are a dumpster fire. I won't even try to fly United or American or Delta anymore.
[+] [-] ghaff|8 years ago|reply
But JetBlue has adopted a lot of the fee structures of the legacy carriers. They do charge extra for checked luggage now. They have pay for more legroom seats (although their regular seat pitch isn't bad by economy standards). They have pay for early boarding. Their change fees have gone up.
[+] [-] Scoundreller|8 years ago|reply
Or, in the case of a Canadian airline, Westjet, you get a free checked bag when you have their premium credit card.
[+] [-] KozmoNau7|8 years ago|reply
Most airlines allow 55x40x20cm(-ish) size cabin luggage, plus a so-called personal item, which can be as big as 40x30x15cm on some airlines, or described as a purse, a handbag or a slim laptop bag. Sometimes the weight is included in the cabin luggage allowance, sometimes it's not, so you have to check the terms for each airline. This will let you bring a bit of extra luggage, or at least make sure your laptop isn't taking up a bunch of space in your cabin luggage.
This may seem like a bunch of needless extra work when packing, for saving a small fee, but it also means you won't have to waste time at the luggage carousel, and it will be much less hassle if you have to go by taxi or public transport. And of course your luggage won't be at the mercy of underpaid and possibly careless luggage workers.
Pack smart, avoid fees and hassle.
[+] [-] Scoundreller|8 years ago|reply
Is it reasonable to discourage it because the airline needs to pay the airports for each bag and the ability to carry non-passenger cargo is reduced that much?
[+] [-] tradersam|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pxeboot|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] chrismcb|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dingaling|8 years ago|reply
It would be less galling if they just called it 'Minimum Fare'.
Plus they add a 1% credit card charge!
[+] [-] msheif|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kwoff|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dawhizkid|8 years ago|reply