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Cinema’s greatest scene: ‘Casablanca’ and ‘La Marseillaise’

207 points| prismatic | 8 years ago |seveninchesofyourtime.com | reply

86 comments

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[+] ggm|8 years ago|reply
I cry at this scene, every time. I start to cry thinking about it.

From the wiki, which contextualizes what I was told by my parents (who were young adults in London during the war)

Much of the emotional impact of the film has been attributed to the large proportion of European exiles and refugees who were extras or played minor roles (in addition to leading actors Paul Henreid, Conrad Veidt and Peter Lorre): such as Louis V. Arco, Trude Berliner, Ilka Grünig, Lotte Palfi, Richard Ryen, Ludwig Stössel, Hans Twardowski, and Wolfgang Zilzer. A witness to the filming of the "duel of the anthems" sequence said he saw many of the actors crying and "realized that they were all real refugees".[25] Harmetz argues that they "brought to a dozen small roles in Casablanca an understanding and a desperation that could never have come from Central Casting".[26] They were frequently cast as Nazis in war films, even though many were Jewish.

[+] acjohnson55|8 years ago|reply
Oh my gosh, I cried again, just watching the clip. The battered pride and defiance are so palpable. I think everyone knows that feeling of when you're getting shat upon for no real reason, and all you want is a little dignity.
[+] LaMarseillaise|8 years ago|reply
It is a truly powerful scene, and I consider it one of the greatest in the history of cinema (as you might have guessed from my username). Thank you for sharing this.
[+] JBlue42|8 years ago|reply
Same here. Not sure when I first watched the movie - sometime in middle school - and I can picture and feel the whole thing. Maybe something I've still been chasing in creating emotion in my own works.

Thank you for adding the parts about the context.

[+] neves|8 years ago|reply
Must confess that I was crying when I finished reading.
[+] CalChris|8 years ago|reply
In the scene which sets up the Marseillaise scene, Yvonne comes into the bar with the German officer and he orders the only drink mentioned by name in a movie with a whole lot of drinking, the French 75, named after the French WWI 75mm field gun.

   gin, Champagne, lemon juice and sugar
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_75_(cocktail)

Yvonne finds her moral core when they play the Marseillaise just as Rick later finds his when he has to make a choice.

[+] ghaff|8 years ago|reply
I'm not sure the reason but this is the third time that I have seen the French 75 (something I had never previously heard of) come up in either conversation or as a bar special within literally the past two days. One of those times I can write off as awareness but still...
[+] MrBuddyCasino|8 years ago|reply
Ah, the French 75 - my favourite sparkling wine based cocktail. A good choice for new years eve. Its strong though!
[+] neves|8 years ago|reply
And do not forget the power of the music. Nice read below:

Why La Marseillaise is the only song that matters right now

The French national anthem is the greatest anthem there is, and its history will likely only increase your admiration for it, writes Alex Marshall.

http://www.bbc.com/culture/story/20151117-why-la-marseillais...

[+] toomanybeersies|8 years ago|reply
I think that one of the reasons that La Marseillaise is so rousing is because of its tempo.

Most national anthems have a comparatively glacial tempo, whereas La Marseillaise is generally played at ~120 BPM, a marching tempo.

Il Canto degli Italiani, the Italian national anthem, is similar.

[+] f_allwein|8 years ago|reply
I remember reading that the Germans were supposed to sing the Horst Wessel Lied, Nazi Germany’s unofficial anthem, but in that case, the studio would have had to pay royalties to the Nazis. So instead they chose Die Wacht am Rhein, which is apparently royalty free...
[+] 0xCMP|8 years ago|reply
I've found that a lot of "this is the best X ever" is often just hype, but when I watched Casablanca for the first time I was super happy to find out that wasn't the case for this movie.

All these years later it's still powerful, relatable, and timeless.

Great break down of this scene. It's made me want to watch it again.

[+] russellbeattie|8 years ago|reply
What I find fantastic about Casablanca is that while watching it, you sometimes find yourself thinking, "OMG, what a cliche!" (flashbacks, closeups, famous one liners, etc.) only to realize that it's all the movies that came after Casablanca were what made the cliches, this is the original.
[+] benbreen|8 years ago|reply
Agreed. It's interesting to me how some cultural products are completely dated and "of their time" when you experience them decades later, whereas others remain timeless. I'm reasonably sure that Casablanca will still be receiving praising like this in the 2210s. Part of what makes it so compelling for me is exactly what the author identifies toward the end -- a lot of the actors in this movie really are WW2 refugees, and you can see it in their performances. It's impossible for me not to cry when I watch the scene in question.
[+] exodust|8 years ago|reply
Well yes it's still hype. Obviously subjective in many ways. "Greatest" is nothing more than routine clickbait. Casablanca can be a great achievement without needing to call it the greatest, which is an attempt at both ending and starting an argument. Clickbait.

It's a shame that article writers can't use a sensible title such as "re-visting Casablanca's greatest scene." or similar. When the subject matter strikes a chord, that's no reason to elevate a scene's achievement relative to other cinematic scenes in other movies unrelated to war.

[+] PhasmaFelis|8 years ago|reply
Ditto. I'm not a huge cinema buff, and I was very much expecting Casablanca to feel quaint and stilted, and it really wasn't. It's fantastic.
[+] sytelus|8 years ago|reply
Absolutely. All lists such as "Top", "Best", "Greatest" etc are usually bogus. Even assuming that you had a quantitative criteria, you would need to apply that criteria to all movies ever released and has to watch every scene that was in each of those movies. It's a sorting operation across vast number of movies. Even than I would think that any such criteria can not be universal across the cultures, demographics, individual preferences and long enough time spans. A lot of people try to get away with this by measuring aggregate of social signal but one needs to understand that we have heard mentality. Once someone makes "Best" list, more people checks out the items in it and inflate their importance. Crowd sourcing the "sort" operation hasn't worked yet.
[+] ciscoriordan|8 years ago|reply
For those of you in SF, it’s playing at the Castro Theatre on December 17 (http://www.castrotheatre.com/p-list.html#dec17).
[+] frandroid|8 years ago|reply
Awesome.

My only and excellent experience of the Castro theatre is watching Hitchcock's Vertigo there, just days after my brother-in-law had given me the tour of city, of which I was a visitor. Suddenly you realize how central to the movie the city is. There's what's now a good joke about the Mission, too.

[+] ekianjo|8 years ago|reply
Do they play it with the original reels on film projectors?
[+] SagelyGuru|8 years ago|reply
My grandfather was a real Czechoslovak resistance leader, like the fictional Victor, which adds extra poignancy to "Casablanca" for me.

Unfortunately the reality was such that the Germans were unlikely to release such people. My grandfather was tortured and executed as "an enemy of the Reich".

[+] bradbeattie|8 years ago|reply
Given that Casablanca was filmed in 1942, one might argue that the actors' emotions in that scene are more timely than one might first guess.
[+] bambax|8 years ago|reply
Yes, but how ironic that the sinister Nazi officer was played by a German actor who opposed the Nazis and fled his country for fear of persecution of himself and his Jewish wife (Conrad Veidt, also the inspiration for the Joker character in the Batman franchise).
[+] mwilliaams|8 years ago|reply
The author writes about that. Many of the extras in the scene were refugees of occupied France.
[+] univalent|8 years ago|reply
I cry every time I see this scene. Great unpacking of a powerful few minutes of cinema. I could hear the song thundering in my ear just from reading the article.
[+] technosamay20|8 years ago|reply
Love this scene and the movie. It's my most favorite movie. I have seen it about 40 times right now, many times in Theater.

Stanford theater in Palo Alto screens this frequently and have made many friends there at Casablanca screenings.

Another great scene is "The Beginning of a Beautiful Friendship" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kiNJcDG4E0

[+] helloworld|8 years ago|reply
Before a scene is shot, who figures out where the camera will focus? Is that primarily the director's job -- or the cinematographer's?

In this scene, I'm struck that there are so many crucial close-ups: of Renault, Ilsa, Rick, Yvonne, and Laszlo. I'm assuming that someone planned that. Maybe with storyboards?

[+] sowbug|8 years ago|reply
I don't have an answer to your question, but I remember watching some commentary by a person involved in the making of the film. This is about the final pivotal scene where Captain Renault must quickly decide whether to implicate Rick as the killer of Strasser.

The first version of the scene had the police arrive just as Renault shouts to "round up the usual suspects." Whoever was in charge of the film (I assume the director) said this was all wrong, and told the editor to instead add a dramatic sequence of short cuts back and forth between Rick and Louis, showing that Rick was desperately wondering what Louis would do -- praying he wouldn't turn him in -- and Louis was thinking basically the same thing, realizing he had the option to switch sides in the moment.

As with the Marseillaise scene, this is minutes and minutes of incredible storytelling condensed into just a few frames of dialogue-free film. And apparently (finally getting to your point), it wasn't originally filmed that way; they probably had a bunch of shots of each actor glaring in various directions, and they used them in the editing room to powerful effect.

If anyone has a link to the interview I'm describing, I'd appreciate watching it again.

[+] pokler|8 years ago|reply
I imagine it varies from movie to movie. Generally, the director of photographer is in charge of the camera and lights, but how much independence they have depends on the director.
[+] mwilliaams|8 years ago|reply
What a great analysis to add even more depth to this great movie.
[+] swerner|8 years ago|reply
On top of that, the background music right after that are the first notes of the German national anthem - in minor.
[+] lolive|8 years ago|reply
I will name one movie and let your infer what the cinema's greatest scene is: MI-SE-RY.
[+] hk__2|8 years ago|reply
There’s a typo in the HN title: it’s 'La Marseillaise', not 'Le Marseillaise'.
[+] dang|8 years ago|reply
Thanks! Fixed.
[+] CalChris|8 years ago|reply
> Casablanca is widely remembered as one of the greatest films of all time, coming in at #2 on the AFI’s top 100 list ...

  1. CITIZEN KANE (1941)
  2. CASABLANCA (1942)
  3. THE GODFATHER (1972)
  4. GONE WITH THE WIND (1939)
  5. LAWRENCE OF ARABIA (1962)
I just don't enjoy CITIZEN KANE anymore. It's like a film school movie. I watched it maybe 10-15 times when I was younger and I just don't enjoy it anymore. Like so what? GONE WITH THE WIND is the pinnacle of Lost Cause propaganda. I enjoyed when I didn't understand it. (I'm sure glad I didn't watch Triumph of the Will when I didn't understand it.) I damn sure don't enjoy GONE WITH THE WIND now that I understand it.

But I can watch CASABLANCA, THE GODFATHER and LAWRENCE OF ARABIA over and over. And this was a good article telling me things I didn't appreciate and still I can go back and watch CASABLANCA again.

[+] frandroid|8 years ago|reply
*La
[+] barsonme|8 years ago|reply
The francophones are out in full force today!
[+] banned1|8 years ago|reply
Pftt! This scene is nothing. The best scene of all times is the bank robbery scene in the movie Heat and what happens after. Al Pacino and Robert Deniro were lethal. It makes me cry every time when Deniro leaves her behind:

“Don't let yourself get attached to anything you are not willing to walk out on in 30 seconds flat if you feel the heat around the corner.”

[+] kartD|8 years ago|reply
OMG That movie just went on and on...

Also got to say Al Pacino is so insufferable. De Niro was excellent though. My favorite scene is the end in stand up guys (also Pacino is far more mellow and tolerable in that one)

[+] mozumder|8 years ago|reply
This is the greatest scene, and not the scene where Arnold rips off Richter's arms in the elevator in Total Recall and Richter falls to his death and Arnold throws him back his arms and yells "See you at the party Richter"?
[+] timthelion|8 years ago|reply
Nothing like some good old black and white, two sided European nationalism to bring tears to the eyes, is there?
[+] dang|8 years ago|reply
We've banned this account for repeatedly violating the site guidelines and ignoring our requests to stop. Tossing this sort of flamebait into an HN thread is vandalism, let alone going full Hitler once people take the bait. We're trying for an entirely different kind of site here.

I appreciate that you also post the occasional substantive comment, but your balance is negative and it isn't worth it. If you don't want to be banned on HN, though, you're welcome to email us at [email protected] and commit to using the site as intended from now on.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15857292 and marked it off-topic.

[+] edoloughlin|8 years ago|reply
Try reading the article. Maybe also research what La Marseillaise stands for.