From what I gather of this article I should be siding with rappler but I can't help but strongly dislike rappler for being part of facebook's effort to destroy the internet with their internet.org thing.
I also have a hard time having sympathy for a news outlet that choose to live inside facebook and then complains for having to deal with facebook's shenanigans. You should know better than that and you kinda deserve what happens to you when you choose to be subservient to a global master.
On the other hand this Duterte guy seems to be the usual violent dictator kind and there is no way I can get behind that.
I guess it is a story of two evils, one involved in violence and death but limited to a national local reach and the other empowering the first while having deep global reach and influence on a third of the world population.
Reading this was informative and I've learned about something I was not aware of but this leaves me in an incomfortable place where I feel powerless to help and unhappy to choose the 'right' side.
I wish we could get rid of facebook, this thing is epitome of everything wrong in our western world.
> I also have a hard time having sympathy for a news outlet that choose to live inside facebook and then complains for having to deal with facebook's shenanigans
This is like complaining about anticapitalists participating in capitalism. Just as capitalism is society here, so too is Facebook basically the Internet in Philippines. There isn’t really a choice.
The news orgs have discovered placing 10th grade problem sets on the desks of 2nd graders is very lucrative.
It's what the Rush Limbaugh and Jon Oliver types do day in day out (and if you are observant with zero long term impact). All the news orgs are doing it too and they will never regain the trust they once had.
Journalism was never about making people feel helpless.
Today's journalism is about making people feel helpless for profit.
So my advice don't read stuff that's above your grade level.
>> On the other hand this Duterte guy seems to be the usual violent dictator kind and there is no way I can get behind that.
An actress twitted that Duterte is a psychopath and his response was: "I leave her to her Constitutional right to free expression. She should enjoy that".
Dictator right? Some of Duterte's dictatorship plan include:
1. Federalism so that power can be spread throughout the country not in one place only
2. Freedom of Information
Online communities need active human management and engagement. You can't automate yourself out of this, Facebook. It seems like this pattern is repeated over and over. Slashdot figured out a way to have human cultivation aided by software. And the result was high quality. Digg came along and tried to go all software, and it failed. Ignoring these lessons, many, many newspapers open up their articles to unfettered commenting and are shocked when anonymous users with no sense of accountability produce ugly comments.
Facebook sometimes does good, sometimes does bad, depending on how its algorithms are tweaked. And it’s likely the algorithms are mostly tweaked to maximize profit.
Currently, the only way to get the company to focus its efforts on truthful news and protection from abuse is through regulation, which happily it looks like the EU has started doing.
But the deeper issue is Facebook being a for-profit, closed-data-garden, global social media behemoth who strangles competition aggressively. As a result, there are few other social media sources to get the truth from, and there is no real competitive pressure on Facebook to make it care enough about protecting its users from abuse.
Why does the truth have to come from social media sources? Did people suddenly forget about old-school journalism? Newspapers, publicly-funded radio and TV programmes etc. Those are far better sources of 'truth' than you'll ever get through social media.
Maybe in the past, when it was still a free for all, and governments hadn't woken-up to the power of social media. Since then, Facebook has "learned its place" and it seems to become increasingly more "optimized" toward government propaganda.
Reminded me of CBC’s piece on Duterte from earlier this year (many of the people in the Bloomberg article are represented here). Most of the comments on the video are critical of Leila de Lima, the CBC and the reporter.
The other way to see it is that traditional media may be losing the monopoly of information because people now have internet and social media as alternative.
It concerns me because it seems that Maria Ressa is now turning to foreigners to intervene and destabilize my country?
What if some of these "journalists" are the ones spreading fake news?
But the blogger RJ Nieto AKA Thinking Pinoy (http://www.thinkingpinoy.net/) pointed it out as fearmongering and fake news.
"Rappler cited Agence France Press who cited Rita Katz of SITE Intelligence Group who cited an anonymous "Marawi Contact".
THAT IS DOUBLE HEARSAY (OR EVEN TRIPLE HEARSAY).
You did not even bother to ask Katz herself and instead relied on a news wire!"
https://web.facebook.com/TheThinkingPinoy/photos/a.568177789...
When I saw this online and fully functional, I was glad and convinced that he is the opposite. He is a leader that upholds freedom and embraces technology (this is very important to me because I'm in the tech sector).
He promised to try to uphold peace and order to the people during the campaign. He openly told the people what he's going to do and it's his priority. People voted for him and he won. Well, that's democracy at work.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/01/philippines-pr...
How about some of the anti-Duterte who label other people as trolls and try to silence them by taking down their Facebook account, what do you call them?
I was just scrolling here for tech news but then I found this which prompted me to write this. Sorry for the long read. I'd like to know what you think about this. Just refrain from senseless bashing please.
By the way, I live in the PH since birth.
> You did not even bother to ask Katz herself and instead relied on a news wire!
Uh. Because the press relies on news wires all the time? While standard practice, I am not claiming that news wires are infallible. Mistakes can happen. But the difference between traditional journalists and Facebook bloggers is that traditional journalists are held to a standard in factual reporting. You might notice that the first Rappler article you linked to [1] is subheaded by an update which conveys a message different to the headline:
(6th UPDATE) The Philippine National Police says the 'isolated' incident is not a terrorist act but Defense Chief Lorenzana tells Rappler, "We're not ruling out that this is ISIS."
In contrast, bloggers (like RJ Nieto in the Senate hearing regarding fake news) would often just hide behind the excuse "I am entitled to my opinion". Sure, no one contests that you are entitled to your own opinion. But never peddle your opinion as fact.
> Previous administration promised Freedom of Information (FOI) but only Pres. Duterte implemented it.
I don't think this wins points for Duterte. The FOI came relatively late into the last administration's term. The previous administration basically did the bulk of the legislative footwork necessary to pass a bill. Almost all that's left for Duterte to do is to sign the bill.
Had the FOI been raised a few legislative seasons earlier, it might as well be Aquino who signed it into implementation. Carry over projects are common when administrations transition.
> Here's the FOI online portal (Browse over 2662 requests and 217 government agencies).
I think a better measure of FOI's efficacy are the actual statistics. [2] The graph isn't completely clear but it would seem that, as of this writing, there are 797 denied requests (278 labeled as "Denied requests" and 519 merely labeled "Denied"). Compared to 820 successful requests, that means it is roughly 50-50 on whether your FOI request will be granted. So much for "freedom" there.
Granted, some of the denied requests were unfulfilled allegedly since the office from which the data was requested did not have said data. While a believable response, I find it frustrating that our government could not cross-check with other agencies when reasonable. But that is as much freedom as you can get from bureaucracy, I guess.
This is an extremely biased piece of journalism that almost anyone on the ground in the Philippines would disagree with. Very dishonest and should not be trusted at face value.
This is a story about people spreading false, content-free things on social media to discredit political opponents. In that context, your comment raises more questions than it answers.
In addition, the piece makes a large number of factual assertions that could be easily verified. Are journalists being targeted for harassment? Are government-linked bloggers advocating for the arrest of journalists? A moment's googling suggests the answer is "yes". And of course Duterte's death squads are well known.
Edit: Also, I don't think a glib accusation of bias helps much here. Yes, no doubt there's two (or more) sides to this story, but even if true, that amounts to nothing more than a tu quoque at best, and a "they deserved it" at worst.
For those of us on the other side of the world, Would you be willing to give a quick summary of the biases you see in the piece, a taster of your experience of the reality on the ground?
FYI, since 2016 a certain Liberal Party Senator and Maria Ressa wants total control of social media and internet.
For those who have no idea about the Philippines and its politics. Rappler is a George Soros funded media outfit and Maria Ressa is well known Aquino (former president) or Liberal Party apologist. In the Philippines, Facebook, not twitter, is the more popular medium people used to engage in social media and politics and Rappler is losing the social media battle in Facebook that's why Maria Ressa is so desparate to get the attention of foreign media. And, from what I read Rappler is in trouble with funding.
The main reason why people are staying away from Rappler is becuase they spin almost all of their news about Duterte and the present administration. Yes there are fake news in Facebook but there are certainly a lot of fake news in Rappler, really.
Bullshit. Fake news is different from bias. CNN is biased. Fox News is biased. Rappler is biased. What they don't do is pass of fake information or rumors as news, like saying "since 2016 a certain Liberal Party Senator and Maria Ressa wants total control of social media and internet." You're entitled to your own opinion, but you're not entitled to your own facts.
[+] [-] bigbugbag|8 years ago|reply
I also have a hard time having sympathy for a news outlet that choose to live inside facebook and then complains for having to deal with facebook's shenanigans. You should know better than that and you kinda deserve what happens to you when you choose to be subservient to a global master.
On the other hand this Duterte guy seems to be the usual violent dictator kind and there is no way I can get behind that.
I guess it is a story of two evils, one involved in violence and death but limited to a national local reach and the other empowering the first while having deep global reach and influence on a third of the world population.
Reading this was informative and I've learned about something I was not aware of but this leaves me in an incomfortable place where I feel powerless to help and unhappy to choose the 'right' side.
I wish we could get rid of facebook, this thing is epitome of everything wrong in our western world.
[+] [-] TazeTSchnitzel|8 years ago|reply
This is like complaining about anticapitalists participating in capitalism. Just as capitalism is society here, so too is Facebook basically the Internet in Philippines. There isn’t really a choice.
[+] [-] hux_|8 years ago|reply
It's what the Rush Limbaugh and Jon Oliver types do day in day out (and if you are observant with zero long term impact). All the news orgs are doing it too and they will never regain the trust they once had. Journalism was never about making people feel helpless. Today's journalism is about making people feel helpless for profit.
So my advice don't read stuff that's above your grade level.
[+] [-] doggacula|8 years ago|reply
Well, if facebook is really epitome of everything, what's wrong in the Western World, then it (Western World) is doing quite well.
[+] [-] jister|8 years ago|reply
An actress twitted that Duterte is a psychopath and his response was: "I leave her to her Constitutional right to free expression. She should enjoy that".
Dictator right? Some of Duterte's dictatorship plan include:
1. Federalism so that power can be spread throughout the country not in one place only 2. Freedom of Information
[+] [-] vatotemking|8 years ago|reply
The founder of Rappler, was a former head of ABS-CBN news, a TV station aligned with the liberal party, the party who lost to Duterte.
Rappler, as an online media outlet, and itself a propaganda machine, is threatened by Facebook. That is why we have this article.
Basically, in HN speak, Facebook is disrupting the propaganda machine market and Rappler is scared to go out of business.
[+] [-] thebokehwokeh2|8 years ago|reply
Rappler, as a news organization, is head and shoulders above 90% of most other news outlets in the region when it comes to factual reporting.
Your comment is effectively the Philippine version of Fox News binging, functionally brainwashed, that say that the New York Times is fake news.
[+] [-] jcasman|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] scott_karana|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] danra|8 years ago|reply
Currently, the only way to get the company to focus its efforts on truthful news and protection from abuse is through regulation, which happily it looks like the EU has started doing.
But the deeper issue is Facebook being a for-profit, closed-data-garden, global social media behemoth who strangles competition aggressively. As a result, there are few other social media sources to get the truth from, and there is no real competitive pressure on Facebook to make it care enough about protecting its users from abuse.
[+] [-] wereHamster|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mtgx|8 years ago|reply
Maybe in the past, when it was still a free for all, and governments hadn't woken-up to the power of social media. Since then, Facebook has "learned its place" and it seems to become increasingly more "optimized" toward government propaganda.
[+] [-] rini17|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] eswat|8 years ago|reply
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVckX_-MYng
[+] [-] LeeHwang|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] anomie31|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mjohnre|8 years ago|reply
It concerns me because it seems that Maria Ressa is now turning to foreigners to intervene and destabilize my country?
What if some of these "journalists" are the ones spreading fake news?
Recently, Rappler reported this. https://www.rappler.com/nation/171702-isis-resorts-world-man...
Then she followed up with this article. https://www.rappler.com/newsbreak/in-depth/171784-terrorism-...
But the blogger RJ Nieto AKA Thinking Pinoy (http://www.thinkingpinoy.net/) pointed it out as fearmongering and fake news.
"Rappler cited Agence France Press who cited Rita Katz of SITE Intelligence Group who cited an anonymous "Marawi Contact". THAT IS DOUBLE HEARSAY (OR EVEN TRIPLE HEARSAY). You did not even bother to ask Katz herself and instead relied on a news wire!" https://web.facebook.com/TheThinkingPinoy/photos/a.568177789...
Thinking Pinoy is labeled by her as a troll and seems to be going around the world trying to convince other people. http://www.getrealphilippines.com/blog/2017/06/people-shriek...
Here, Thinking Pinoy shows that bloggers are having more engagement in Facebook than traditional media. That may be one of the reasons why she's trying to put down Thinking Pinoy. https://web.facebook.com/TheThinkingPinoy/posts/681350205345...
Is Pres. Duterte a tyrant or dictator? One may say that it depends on who is affected and why.
Previous administration promised Freedom of Information (FOI) but only Pres. Duterte implemented it. http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/798612/full-text-executive-orde...
Here's the FOI online portal (Browse over 2662 requests and 217 government agencies). https://www.foi.gov.ph/requests?agency=&status=SUCCESSFUL
When I saw this online and fully functional, I was glad and convinced that he is the opposite. He is a leader that upholds freedom and embraces technology (this is very important to me because I'm in the tech sector).
He promised to try to uphold peace and order to the people during the campaign. He openly told the people what he's going to do and it's his priority. People voted for him and he won. Well, that's democracy at work. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/01/philippines-pr...
He tries to make peace with the communists and muslim insurgents. He even let one of the leaders of our muslim brothers speak on the president's podium. http://www.mindanews.com/peace-process/2016/11/nur-and-digon...
According to a survey, majority of the people "agreed they can say anything they want openly and without fear even if it is against the government. http://www.philstar.com/headlines/2017/07/02/1715565/freedom...
He let protesters rally on the streets. Now, isn't that a working democracy where people are free voice out their concerns? http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/848056/duterte-to-protesters-yo...
How about some of the anti-Duterte who label other people as trolls and try to silence them by taking down their Facebook account, what do you call them?
I was just scrolling here for tech news but then I found this which prompted me to write this. Sorry for the long read. I'd like to know what you think about this. Just refrain from senseless bashing please. By the way, I live in the PH since birth.
[+] [-] skytreader|8 years ago|reply
Uh. Because the press relies on news wires all the time? While standard practice, I am not claiming that news wires are infallible. Mistakes can happen. But the difference between traditional journalists and Facebook bloggers is that traditional journalists are held to a standard in factual reporting. You might notice that the first Rappler article you linked to [1] is subheaded by an update which conveys a message different to the headline:
(6th UPDATE) The Philippine National Police says the 'isolated' incident is not a terrorist act but Defense Chief Lorenzana tells Rappler, "We're not ruling out that this is ISIS."
In contrast, bloggers (like RJ Nieto in the Senate hearing regarding fake news) would often just hide behind the excuse "I am entitled to my opinion". Sure, no one contests that you are entitled to your own opinion. But never peddle your opinion as fact.
> Previous administration promised Freedom of Information (FOI) but only Pres. Duterte implemented it.
I don't think this wins points for Duterte. The FOI came relatively late into the last administration's term. The previous administration basically did the bulk of the legislative footwork necessary to pass a bill. Almost all that's left for Duterte to do is to sign the bill.
Had the FOI been raised a few legislative seasons earlier, it might as well be Aquino who signed it into implementation. Carry over projects are common when administrations transition.
> Here's the FOI online portal (Browse over 2662 requests and 217 government agencies).
I think a better measure of FOI's efficacy are the actual statistics. [2] The graph isn't completely clear but it would seem that, as of this writing, there are 797 denied requests (278 labeled as "Denied requests" and 519 merely labeled "Denied"). Compared to 820 successful requests, that means it is roughly 50-50 on whether your FOI request will be granted. So much for "freedom" there.
Granted, some of the denied requests were unfulfilled allegedly since the office from which the data was requested did not have said data. While a believable response, I find it frustrating that our government could not cross-check with other agencies when reasonable. But that is as much freedom as you can get from bureaucracy, I guess.
[1] https://www.rappler.com/nation/171702-isis-resorts-world-man... [2] https://www.foi.gov.ph/statistics?type=outcomes
[+] [-] misterHN|8 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] RyanZAG|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Lazare|8 years ago|reply
In addition, the piece makes a large number of factual assertions that could be easily verified. Are journalists being targeted for harassment? Are government-linked bloggers advocating for the arrest of journalists? A moment's googling suggests the answer is "yes". And of course Duterte's death squads are well known.
Edit: Also, I don't think a glib accusation of bias helps much here. Yes, no doubt there's two (or more) sides to this story, but even if true, that amounts to nothing more than a tu quoque at best, and a "they deserved it" at worst.
[+] [-] sago|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ISL|8 years ago|reply
It is an opinionated piece, to be sure, but Bloomberg is generally relatively centrist and well-sourced.
Care to elaborate or point us to countervailing sources?
[+] [-] hacker-gene|8 years ago|reply
As other media organization have reported, in case you're interested: https://newrepublic.com/article/138952/rodrigo-dutertes-army... http://comprop.oii.ox.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/sites/89/2017...
[+] [-] jister|8 years ago|reply
For those who have no idea about the Philippines and its politics. Rappler is a George Soros funded media outfit and Maria Ressa is well known Aquino (former president) or Liberal Party apologist. In the Philippines, Facebook, not twitter, is the more popular medium people used to engage in social media and politics and Rappler is losing the social media battle in Facebook that's why Maria Ressa is so desparate to get the attention of foreign media. And, from what I read Rappler is in trouble with funding.
The main reason why people are staying away from Rappler is becuase they spin almost all of their news about Duterte and the present administration. Yes there are fake news in Facebook but there are certainly a lot of fake news in Rappler, really.
[+] [-] jinonoel|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] varjag|8 years ago|reply