Video Shows Starving Polar Bear on Iceless Land

[eemax]

Individual animals in the wild die cruel, slow, painful deaths all the time, regardless of whether their species as a whole is thriving or not.

So while this video might evoke a strong emotional response, it is just an anecdote and not actually evidence one way or the other for human-caused climate change.

Of course, human-caused climate change is obviously real, but it's not OK to use bad arguments even if your conclusion is correct.

EDIT: To clarify further, I am not disputing that polar bears are not being harmed by climate change, or even that the particular bear in the video is not starving because of climate change. I am merely pointing out that one could produce a video of a starving polar bear both in our world and in the world where climate change is not happening, because wild animals starve all the time.

[ritchiea]

We need to use whatever arguments are effective to steer people and governments to good policy as long as we know those arguments are supporting a cause that is scientifically backed. Some people don't get and don't want to get scientific evidence. If there is a plausible causal chain from global climate change to that suffering polar bear we should be using that polar bear to convince people climate change is real and bad. Most people don't have the patience for or interest in scientific arguments and we have to convince most people that this is a problem not just hacker news.

[icc97]

Tangentially to this, I was wondering the rather simple question of - "Where do the old age ducks/birds go to die?". They mostly get eaten is the rather obvious answer [0].

[0]: http://ww2.rspb.org.uk/birds-and-wildlife/bird-and-wildlife-...

[ant6n]

> I am merely pointing out that one could produce a video of a starving polar bear both in our world and in the world where climate change is not happening, because wild animals starve all the time.

Good thing most people already know we don't live in the world where climate change is not happening, so this doesn't need to act as proof of it happening, but rather as an individual example of what is happening all over.

[000000000000001]

The changing climate conditions are going to wreak havoc on countless species in the coming century.

The only question is would we be ready when things start rolling faster than we could control?

[brakmic]

If the richest and most powerful countries say "there is no climate change" and "others want to destroy our economy", then the answer is a pessimistic one. The same applies to countries that say "yes, there is a climate change and we must do something", but in the end avoid doing anything to unwind the death spiral.

[freech]

Maybe you'd prefer watching a polar bear eat a seal alive?

[cyberpunk0]

No I'd prefer the ice caps not to be melting

[moocowtruck]

yea no kiddin seals are probably in favor of climate change

[thomasfl]

The world needs more SolarCoin and less Crypto Kitties https://cleantechnica.com/2017/06/29/solarcoin-cryptocurrenc...

[rebuilder]

Solarcoin issuance appears to be centralized and controlled by the SolarCoin foundation. I'd stay well away.

[jackhack]

This is getting really, truly absurd.

Might as well trade in four-leaf clovers. They're solar generated, renewable, organic, gluten free, etc. etc. etc. And just as worthless. Let me take that back. At least clovers can be plowed back into the soil and used to improve the earth.

What the world needs is to wake up from this nonsense and get back to actually making tangible products and quit obsessing on ways to sell mindshare of fellow citizens as if it is a commodity.

[anotheryou]

So how does proof of solar work? It's merely centralized payback points for solar without any promised value?

[sparkzilla]

Polar Bear populations are not declining. Also, the plural of anecdote is not data. https://polarbearscience.com/2017/02/15/baffin-bay-and-kane-...

[perbu]

Observed polar bear populations are not declining. However, since there is far less ice the polar bear are much easier to find these days, making the counts go up, rather than down. This has been the case in Svalbard, at least.

[wepple]

That link does not pass the sniff test at all. Massively slanted an opinionated pieces that look like any5ing but proper science.

[jhiska]

"Heart-wrenching" doesn't convince minds in Hacker News.

[fulafel]

Did you ever spring to action after intensely experiencing something you were already factually aware of? I think climate denialism is not a big problem on HN, but apathy and priorities are.

[superb_herb]

Did you watch the video?

It's rough.

[jordache]

maybe the bear is diseased?

[jackhack]

But that breaks the value of this finely-crafted propaganda and won't help the cause, brother. You can't question the Official Narrative(tm). Now off to the re-education camp with you!

[DavidTNcl]

Propaganda

[jamesmccann]

Meanwhile, we out here obsessing about making money on BTC...

[chinathrow]

There are folks who on purpose do not participate in BTC because they know the energy consumption is wrong. Go tell people about it and they might get it.

[brakmic]

Same thoughts on my side. And we're mostly doing nothing to stop the growing catastrophe. And I am no exception to that, ...just to be honest.

[awinder]

Given that bitcoin can be boiled down to essentially a Chinese energy index, these two things are not unrelated.

[refurb]

There will always be terrible things happening in the world. That doesn't mean we should only work on those problems at the expense of everything else.

[tim333]

While it's sad that the bear died it's a bit of a jump to link it to global warming.

[PostOnce]

The article is mostly about global warming and contains a wealth of citations / references / relevant links.

They provided their evidence as to why it's not a jump to link it to global warming -- where is your evidence that it is, in fact, a jump?

[sulam]

Are you familiar with Baffin Island? Are you aware that polar bears need sea ice to hunt?

It is very easy to draw a line from warming to lack of sea ice in a place where our living record shows there should be ample amounts to polar bears in Baffin starving. This is not a jump.

[dh-g]

There is an entire paragraph showing the causation. I disagree that its a jump.

[asadlionpk]

You won't see species vanish in a 1 minute video. It's a slow and painful death.

[emmelaich]

Yep, it's probably just old.

Which is not to doubt global warming and it's effect on polar bear populations. Just that this particular bear is not really evidence.