I'm filing this one under "Don't believe everything you read on the internet" until more evidence surfaces. The number is just too fantastic. That's the about the same size as our national debt, making it very hard to believe a number that large is possible.
With respect to the article it is over a 17 year period. According the the U.S CBO annual spending is around $4 trillion. I'm personally not surprised by these numbers.
Maybe the reports don't say what they claim (I'm no accountant), but if they do, the only other possibility I see is outright fabrication of official documents (with signatures!) by people who aren't exactly anonymous loonies.
In addition to what the person above stated about the period of time over which this occurred, I'd like to add that I would think the "don't believe everything you read on the internet" file would be filled with statements of the kind made by disreputable sources. This article concerns research done since at least 2015 which has led to an investigation from the Department of Defense. I don't think it should be taken so lightly, yet your comment seems to be trying to sweep this issue under the rug.
At the start of his tenure, Rumsfeld said that the DoD couldn't account for about $2T dollars, so regardless of whether $21T seems plausible, this (first ever!) audit is long overdue.
There are many layers of bureaucracy, and every dollar unaccounted for in every layer counts towards the total. The headline number is much bigger than the number of actual tax dollars spent, but the larger number is indicative of the bogus bookkeeping done throughout gov't agencies: 21 trillion in accumulated errors.
The number sounds ridiculously large but I'm not surprised that these things happen.
The entire financial system is built on fraud. I think that most people understand this at least subconsciously.
Many years ago, being honest and forthcoming was beneficial and people appreciated honesty.
If you made a mistake and were honest about it as soon as it came to your awareness, people would respect you for it and would be more lenient. These days this is not the case, being honest is actually a disadvantage. Lying and cheating is always the best option. People don't give a crap about honesty anymore, only money and social status.
So in a world where the value of honesty is a negative number, it's not surprising at all that fraud is rampant.
It is not clear from the article that this is mostly fraud. It appears that it might cover anything not done strictly according to procedure or documented incorrectly.
And 'not done strictly according to procedure' may or may not be a serious issue in any given case. Most bureaucracies have some rules that are incomplete, contradictory or simply infeasible.
Audits are a good idea, but I don't expect the $21T figure to stand, except perhaps in a purely formal way.
> Now, the Department of Defense has announced it will conduct the first department-wide, independent financial audit in its history
I recall a few (somewhere between 5 and 10) years ago they tried to do an audit and just threw their arms up in the air and said "impossible".
A bunch of people are going to choke on their morning coffee over this but I'm just going to say it: Trump promised to bring accountability to government and here's the DoD performing the impossible. I know, heresy...
Just so you know, this (the audit) was initiated under the Obama administration back on 2010. All Federal agencies were required to go through an audit but the DOD got a waiver for 7 years, which is why you are seeing this now.
I’m constantly amazed with the mental gymnastics people who advocate for tax increases partake in. The know the government is abysmal with money, yet think by giving it a blank check that magically all societal ills will be solved.
The problem is that the mental gymnastics of both sides are so full of holes they are absurd.
The left - we're just going to force everything to be correct and just, including of course, and most importantly, who has money for what. Needless to say, historical societies went quite far in this, and to say it didn't happen is an understatement.
The right - just give more money to people who already have it, and clearly hoard it (that's what lowering taxes does), and they will make everything just and correct. Needless to say, historically this has been done and to say things did not in fact become fair and just is an incredible understatement.
Where would a government department get this much actual money? Do they just have unlimited debit accounts? At some point someone in the treasury has to transfer the money and notice it’s above the budget right?
It's entirely possible that this spending is within their budgets.
The article talks about unauthorized spending not that they had extra money or did over budget spending. So a lot of it could depend on how one defines unauthorized spending.
I’m sure it can be frustrating to try to follow the rules in that environment when everyone around you seems to be getting their purchases through the system and you’re constantly being told there isn’t any money. I can imagine it would create a culture that demands lack of ethics to get anything accomplished.
I worked for the DOE for 12 years. There certainly were shady, sweetheart, and down right suspicious deals that happen for services, hardware and software.
The entire 2015 federal budget was around $3.9 trillion. If just the army had spent $5.6 trillion in 2015 that would be noticed. This article can't make extraordinary claims with extraordinary proof (or any proof) to back it up.
Would having traceable money in a distributed ledger help us keep track of money collected from taxpayers?
Obviously, the volatility of most cryptocurrencies would be disadvantageous for purposes of transferring and accounting for government spending. Isn't there a way to peg a cryptocurrency to the USD; even with Quantitative Easing? How is Quantitative Easing different from just deciding to print trillions more 'coins' in order to counter debt or inflation or deflation; why is the government in debt at all?
[+] [-] nuttzy99|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] larrydag|8 years ago|reply
https://www.cbo.gov/publication/52408
[+] [-] icebraining|8 years ago|reply
Maybe the reports don't say what they claim (I'm no accountant), but if they do, the only other possibility I see is outright fabrication of official documents (with signatures!) by people who aren't exactly anonymous loonies.
https://missingmoney.solari.com/dod-and-hud-missing-money-su...
[+] [-] Woberto|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nhebb|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] fundingshovel|8 years ago|reply
Roughly speaking that's like 8.8% of the GDP of the planet. That... just doesn't make sense.
[+] [-] gizmo|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] moxious|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] putinontheritz|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jondubois|8 years ago|reply
The entire financial system is built on fraud. I think that most people understand this at least subconsciously.
Many years ago, being honest and forthcoming was beneficial and people appreciated honesty.
If you made a mistake and were honest about it as soon as it came to your awareness, people would respect you for it and would be more lenient. These days this is not the case, being honest is actually a disadvantage. Lying and cheating is always the best option. People don't give a crap about honesty anymore, only money and social status.
So in a world where the value of honesty is a negative number, it's not surprising at all that fraud is rampant.
[+] [-] mannykannot|8 years ago|reply
And 'not done strictly according to procedure' may or may not be a serious issue in any given case. Most bureaucracies have some rules that are incomplete, contradictory or simply infeasible.
Audits are a good idea, but I don't expect the $21T figure to stand, except perhaps in a purely formal way.
[+] [-] fundingshovel|8 years ago|reply
While it's still a complete shit show. There's a huge, almost click bate difference.
[+] [-] joeframbach|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] UncleEntity|8 years ago|reply
I recall a few (somewhere between 5 and 10) years ago they tried to do an audit and just threw their arms up in the air and said "impossible".
A bunch of people are going to choke on their morning coffee over this but I'm just going to say it: Trump promised to bring accountability to government and here's the DoD performing the impossible. I know, heresy...
[+] [-] TheWiseOne|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mannykannot|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] seibelj|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] candiodari|8 years ago|reply
The left - we're just going to force everything to be correct and just, including of course, and most importantly, who has money for what. Needless to say, historical societies went quite far in this, and to say it didn't happen is an understatement.
The right - just give more money to people who already have it, and clearly hoard it (that's what lowering taxes does), and they will make everything just and correct. Needless to say, historically this has been done and to say things did not in fact become fair and just is an incredible understatement.
Neither works. Obviously.
[+] [-] unknown|8 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] obblekk|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dekrg|8 years ago|reply
The article talks about unauthorized spending not that they had extra money or did over budget spending. So a lot of it could depend on how one defines unauthorized spending.
[+] [-] cheschire|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] putinontheritz|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] TheAdamist|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] icebraining|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] moxious|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sschueller|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] propogandist|8 years ago|reply
see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWuAct1BxHU
[+] [-] westurner|8 years ago|reply
Federal debt (2017): $20T
$ 20,000,000,000,000 USD
[+] [-] westurner|8 years ago|reply
We already now have https://usaspending.gov ( https://beta.usaspending.gov ) and expenditure line item metadata.
Would having traceable money in a distributed ledger help us keep track of money collected from taxpayers?
Obviously, the volatility of most cryptocurrencies would be disadvantageous for purposes of transferring and accounting for government spending. Isn't there a way to peg a cryptocurrency to the USD; even with Quantitative Easing? How is Quantitative Easing different from just deciding to print trillions more 'coins' in order to counter debt or inflation or deflation; why is the government in debt at all?
[+] [-] unknown|8 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] down|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Juan_Largearm|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] djKianoosh|8 years ago|reply