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Russian submarine activity increases around Atlantic internet cables: report

117 points| erowtom | 8 years ago |thehill.com | reply

62 comments

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[+] dmourati|8 years ago|reply
I'm reminded of an excellent book detailing the US's own interference with Russian cables 30 years back:

https://www.amazon.com/Blind-Mans-Bluff-Submarine-Espionage/...

[+] kevin_thibedeau|8 years ago|reply
The best story surrounding this was a mole who was identified via taps on Russian cables. They were unwilling to prosecute him for fear of tipping off the Russians so he got off and was used to funnel disinformation.
[+] sorokod|8 years ago|reply
I seem to recall that the first action of the British in WW I was to cut the German communications cable in the Atlantic.
[+] temp-dude-87844|8 years ago|reply
Making others believe you're able and willing to interfere with cables is an effective and bloodless way of force projection. For a player like Russia, who's always been big on visible activities shrouded in a hint of plausible deniability, this fits.
[+] raverbashing|8 years ago|reply
Their plausible deniability is helped by the naivety or ideological blindness of some
[+] cdibona|8 years ago|reply
I was at the talk where CDS Peach discussed the cutting of cables. The gist of it was that the UK navy would want to start patrolling/monitoring incoming UK cables as it was a vulnerability point that he felt was ... a likely target of those who might work against the UK interest.

It was a pretty interesting talk. The video can be found here:

https://rusi.org/event/annual-chief-defence-staff-lecture-20...

With the youtube video here :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1o6YoI9kjbc

[+] richardw|8 years ago|reply
I guess we're entering the time of mutually assured cable destruction. Cheapest way to defend is to ensure the Russians know you can cut all their comms immediately.

Of course Russia could be doing that in response to US activity.

[+] Pyxl101|8 years ago|reply
Does anyone know if the data flowing across cables like these is typically encrypted? Does the infrastructure itself provide any defense against a submarine hacking into a cable and installing a device that can monitor traffic?

I would hope that the infrastructure could add its own encryption across the link to defend against unauthorized interception.

[+] virtuallynathan|8 years ago|reply
It is possible to do this, you can get DWDM transmission equipment with encryption built in, I assume some submarine cable capacity purchasers make use of this, but is raises the cost by a decent amount.
[+] cm2187|8 years ago|reply
I believe that until recently neither Azure or AWS had a datacenter in the UK. Cutting undersea cables between the UK and the US / Europe / Ireland could have some serious consequences in the UK, at the very least on the economy, possibly on its infrastructure (payment systems, communications, etc).

But aren't terrestrial cables more vulnerables than undersea cables? Cutting undersea cables require sophisticated technologies. Cutting terrestrial cables just requires a local guy with a map and some TNT. It's impossible to protect thousands of km of cables.

[+] einrealist|8 years ago|reply
Terrestial cables are easy to repair, in terms of hours. For undersea cables, this could take weeks or months, depending on location and wheather conditions.
[+] tpudlik|8 years ago|reply
There is much more redundancy in terrestrial cables (because they are vastly cheaper to lay), so they're much less of a single point of failure.
[+] teh_klev|8 years ago|reply
> Cutting terrestrial cables just requires a local guy with a map and some TNT.

The truth is much simpler, and less explosive, it's usually a JCB digger operated by the local water/gas/leccy company that causes mayhem.

[+] joshamania|8 years ago|reply
Cutting undersea cables can be done with as little as a fishing boat and an anchor.
[+] ridgeguy|8 years ago|reply
Non-oceanic internet distribution might mitigate concerns raised in the article. [1]

[1] https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/11/space...

[+] niftich|8 years ago|reply
Satellites are a poor choice for this particular problem (i.e. when you think an adversary may cripple your communication capabilities), because they can be disrupted, especially if your adversary is one of the premier states in spaceflight and weaponry.

A more resilient choice is troposcatter [1], which has evolved since the 50s [2][3]. A nice property of troposcatter is that it's difficult to intercept and difficult to disrupt between the origin and the destination.

Of course, such a system still lacks the bandwidth for day-to-day commercial usage, by orders of magnitude.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropospheric_scatter [2] http://www.comtechsystems.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Tro... [3] http://www.mwrf.com/systems/troposcatter-system-maintains-50...

[+] adrianN|8 years ago|reply
I don't think wireless technology will ever be able to compete with fiber for bandwidth. You can cram incredible amounts of data through glass. It's on the order of Petabits/second for a single strand.
[+] Scipio_Afri|8 years ago|reply
Will be quite awhile before that is as cheap and has as much bandwidth as those cables. The other disadvantage(s) is/are broadcasting your communication emissions in open air, weather or otherwise other types of interference (naturally occurring or deliberate).
[+] john_moscow|8 years ago|reply
Given that it's 2017 and a huge fraction of the traffic is HTTPS anyway, is there any practical benefit to this?
[+] yeukhon|8 years ago|reply
This is quite interesting: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12193353

and not too long ago a big portion of Internet were rerouted to Russia (BGP). One must wonder what they are up to.

Perhaps the Russian is mapping the world’s Internet, particularly on identifying critical infrastructure which without them would paralyze the world.

My theory is based on North Korea. Imagine NK owns its own cable (I believe they just have its own country interent, but still rely on the global cables) or is successful to hijack while severing communication of the rest of the world, NK can strike its adversaries without worries. Apply this to Russian. We are so dependent on the Interent (think dns and ntp), we are doomed if we can’t communicate (let alone getting emergency alert).

Btw, I can’t help but have to leave a note about the last part of your username... :)

[+] okket|8 years ago|reply
Show of power, threat total disruption of communication. I guess the point is "If we are only 12th most powerful economy (but equal defence wise) the 1st will suffer this much more from such an action."

Putin style politics, blackmailing like the Mafia. Sadly Trump starts to imitate this.

[+] gozur88|8 years ago|reply
It could also be encrypted at the cable endpoints, denying a snooper even the stuff that's normally unencrypted.

Might be worth the cost, too, since then there's no reason for people to cut your cables.

[+] niftich|8 years ago|reply
Sure. These days the point isn't to eavesdrop, but to insinuate that you could credibly disrupt communications.
[+] stctgion|8 years ago|reply
Anyone know the specifics of how you actually intercept data on a fibre optic cable?
[+] indubitable|8 years ago|reply
I would not assume the intention is to intercept data. Assuming this is accurate, it could be tactical repositioning given recent events. Some seem to think that Trump might actually take action in North Korea. If he does, that's going to radically escalate tensions between the US and China/Russia - both of whom border North Korea, and are keen to see them remain a buffer between US military installations and their homeland. Imagine some bizarro parallel universe where Russia and China are actively suggesting plans to invade Mexico and already well established in Guatemala. If we enter into another cold war era, electronic warfare including threats on communication systems (including satellites) would likely be the new invisible 'front' as all developed nations have become heavily dependent on these systems which remain extremely vulnerable.
[+] anonymfus|8 years ago|reply
You just clean and bend the fibre it until enough light escapes for you to detect.
[+] olegkikin|8 years ago|reply
Does it really matter? Most of the important data is already encrypted (and even the unimportant stuff like youtube video streams are served over HTTPS, not even sure why).

The real problem is them cutting or blowing up these cables.

[+] basicplus2|8 years ago|reply
You only have to wrap another optic fibre around it like a spring to pick up everything within
[+] gcb0|8 years ago|reply
and how do you exfiltrate the data?

if you can tap on petabytes/s of data with your probe, how can you move that data for analysis or how can you decrypt it in real time in case you only want to retransmit portions of it?

[+] 3pt14159|8 years ago|reply
You should read the Snowden papers (or was this some other leak? I’m getting so confused by all the leaking). They have two methods: first a device at the location dumps most of the traffic they don’t need like porn or torrents. The remaining data can be reencoded to look like normal https or ssh or whatever and sent through a third cable to another main network location. The data can also be stored locally and retrieved.
[+] basicplus2|8 years ago|reply
I think I can confidently say that every major power has tapped every undersea comms cable there is whether under the sea or where it exits to shore
[+] hbarka|8 years ago|reply
The history of sea cable espionage and sabotage is a fascinating one. A few good books by noted historians.
[+] valuearb|8 years ago|reply
If only the Internet was resistant to losing connections. I guess all we can do is give these guys more money to defend us from the big bad bear with a military that is a tiny fraction of ours.
[+] losteric|8 years ago|reply
Tapping and tampering with connections is more likely here. Cutting a cable doesn't require a sub
[+] craftyguy|8 years ago|reply
I seriously doubt that a full-scale military assault on Russia is 1) going to be productive in the long run and 2) really not justified just to protect a cable. Given the ultra-big egos of donald and vladmir, any act that one might interpret as an assault would very likely result in massive amounts of firepower launching at civilian targets. Maybe I'm alone in accepting some spotting internet connection to Europe vs hundreds of thousands (or easily, millions) of casualties.
[+] avh02|8 years ago|reply
or what they're doing is placing remotely detonated charges for later simultaneous usage should the need arise. (I'm not saying I think this is what has happened, but it's just a thought)

if you lose significant capacity (or all capacity) simultaneously you can't fall back to the "internet is resilient" routine. you're straight up screwed.