I regret buying a maxed out XPS 13 a year and a half ago.
My list of problems:
* Coil whine
* Noisy fans
* Heat issues
* USB-C port has a bad pin (only works in one orientation with pressure)
* Charging port inconsistently charges
* Bad cell in the battery, so it suddenly shuts off without warning when on battery
The charging issues started just around the 12 month mark, so I quickly sent to a repair center under warranty. They returned it with a note that said "mainboard replaced", but nothing had actually been replaced. Same bad pin on the USB-C port (everything I plug into it only works "upside down", and that port is part of the mainboard), same dust in the ports as when I mailed it, etc. By the time they shipped it back, the warranty had expired.
If you're going to buy one of these, I recommend buying an extended warranty. I do also recommend the touchscreen. I've heard the i5 versions have less problems, I would probably take the performance hit next time if it meant a more reliable and longer-lasting machine.
Dan, I apologize for your experience. If you ever run into something like this again, besides contacting support directly, you can ping @dellcarespro on twitter and, if its related to the developer edition or project Sputnik you can loop me in @barton808. thanks!
I bought an XPS 15, also maxed out, years ago and regretted it also. I had all the power problems you mention, except the random shutoffs.
The machine was not really usable for professional work.
I now have a Thinkpad X1 Carbon 5th gen. It has no major issues and works reliably, even with Linux as the primary OS. Granted, it was more expensive, but well worth the purchase price.
Counterpoint, I have an older 9343, FHD, Broadwell-gen XPS 13.
I bought it used, from the outlet, on a lark. This was the consumer version, not even dev.
The damn thing's been the laptop equivalent of a Kabar knife. Deleted the Windows install and tossed Ubuntu on there. Then drops, generally rough treatment, and it's still running happily. No coil whine at all.
The only complaints I have were that the SSD was the Samsung model with serious degradation issues (solved via replacement), and the mouse was finicky until some patched drivers made it upstream.
I feel like quality control issues are a fact of life nowadays. (Aside from LG, because seriously, #&@$ that company for the 5x bootloop handling)
It existed on my HSW XPS 13 developer edition, and this "non-developer edition" KBL XPS 13 I just purchased.
I can totally sympathize with problems like this that surface, but I have no sympathy for a company that seems to ignore this issue for several generations. My next development laptop will probably not be an XPS, and will probably not be a Dell.
Re. touchscreen: The problem with them is how glossy they are. If I could get a touchscreen that doesn't reflect everything under the sun maybe I could work outside...
Mine from two years ago is still sitting broken (unable to charge). It went through so many warrenty repairs, it was completely unreliable it's entire life. Each repair just bought a few months before a different failure.
An extended warranty would not have helped in my case. That would have just extend the pain.
I'm writing this on a XPS 13 and my list of problems is similar.
- Coil whine
- noisy fans
- Computer doesn't shut down(or go to sleep) about 50% of the time. The screen turns off, but the fan stays on and the only way to wake it up again is to hold the power button down. Apparently it's a common issue with them and there's loads of threads about it on the internet with no solution anywhere.
I have only great stories about Dell Laptops with the bullet-proof extended warranties. But I have those stories because I've needed the extended warranty. Is the computer still worth it for $200+ more? Mine was.
The USB C XPS13 models don't support dual MHL monitors, something which older models apparently did (and why I figured it was a safe purchase). Intel is taking a surprisingly long time to implement the necessary Thunderbolt support. Not Dell's fault, but they could at least prod the folks in Santa Clara.
I don't need the touchscreen, but it's the only way to get 16GB of RAM in the US. Really, Dell, this is totally your doing. Same with that coil whine. I thought you had sorted that out after the Latitude I bought fifteen years ago.
I have Dell XPS 13 9350 (Full HD). The computer randomly wakes up from sleep and drains the battery. And sometimes it wakes up in airplane mode. I haven't been able to solve it no matter what. Updated all drivers including BIOS, tried all the solutions people suggested online, formatted Windows, changed wifi card. Problem still continues... Also the battery life is nowhere near what they advertised. Other than that I am satisfied but this issues are so annoying that I want to change it as soon as possible.
I've bought XPS 13 around the same time also maxed out everything and can relate to 90% of your issues. I've also had firmware updates that rendered the laptop completely inoperable (a technician needed to replaced the board).
Unfortunately the level of service also dropped significantly. When I bought XPS 12 6 years ago it was stellar making me a loyal customer but now... some things can be blamed on Intel (broken Thunderbolt, and the TB15 fiasco) but not all...
Thank you. I was really tempted to buy one since people on HN have been saying good things about it. I also had heat issues on a dell laptop years ago, sad to see it's still not fixed.
I have precision 5510, the main problem is random shutoffs, I suspect it caused by the overheating of ssd, my laptop hae 1T ssd, and several shutoffs occurs when I copying large number of files(e.g. more than 100GB), but I can't reproduce this when I perform the copy test.
I got an XPS 15 at about the same time. I've always had similar issues, especially with heat. Let me add 2 more:
* Upgrading from win 8.1 to win 10 causes frequent bluescreens unless speedstep is disabled, which leads to massive heat issues. There havn't been any driver updates since, so Dell seem to have no interest in fixing this.
* Random electric shocks where my arms touch the front of the unit while typing. Happens whether plugged in or not. Super annoying.
Overall I honestly can't recommend these. Reasonably good specs and sleek design but flaky construction and too many issues to be worth it. I'll probably get an HP next.
I mean, who uses touch screens for development? I can't really imagine a scenario where it would be helpful for me. Maybe when doing work in Illustrator and Photoshop, but I usually use a different machine for that anyhow, because of Adobe's lack of Linux support.
I don't want to pay for something I won't use.
I am otherwise actively looking for a laptop.
System76 does not have European keyboard layouts, otherwise I would go with them.
My XPS 13 9350 is undoubtedly the best computer I've ever owned. I don't seem to have this coil whine thing or I just don't notice it. The 8GB of RAM has served me well and I'd never want to sacrifice any of the battery life for increasing that - it's an ultrabook after all. I've always run Ubuntu and while I did have problems with WiFi and resuming when it first came out, they are both rock solid now. I have never tried to use the webcam, I don't even know if it works, so I'm happy with the design choice to minimise the top bezel. I personally see no reason to buy the new model but only because this one is so good.
In my experience virtually all LCD displays have it to some degree, you just don't notice it except with certain patterns (like that one) that interact with the scanout mechanism.
My first Dell as developer machine is XPS 15 9560 but it is in no way a developer machine:
- The thunderbolt dock wire out and laptop USB C are on opposite hands. I have to place my laptop on top of the dock like a giant book resting on a brick.
- Awful coil whine on the power adapter.
- Touchpad is annoying to use when clicking moves the finger resulting in wrong place click.
- Had to replace Killer wifi card with Intel's, Dell's support was top notch here.
- If you don't have nails, opening lid can be an unusual experience, especially when laptop is sitting on top of the dock.
Coming from Thinkpad W530 and miss it but our company switched from Lenovo to Dell
Where's the fucking USB ports?!? I have literally used or observed zero USB C devices till now. I've seen newer phones but who plugs phones into computers anymore? The main issue is flash drives, external HDDs, mice, keyboards, LTE modems, Kindle, and so on. None of those are available in type C variants and I don't want to be inconvenienced by my new laptop. If I wanted to hurt myself I'd just buy from Apple!
Very cool, but as an owner of the Cube Thinker/i35--which has the same exact 3000x2000 3:2 aspect ratio display as the Surface Book (but costs $500)--I can't imagine why any developer would put up with a 16:9 display.
Specially if you have "developer" in your product name, why can't they figure out that 16:9 is not the best aspect ratio for everyone?
I write code the whole day, not watch movies. That huge extra vertical space _does_ make a difference.
Yay Dell! So far I like this series. Coming from years of Macbook laziness and returning to my Linux desktop roots I just bought in to the Dell XPS 15 9560 on sale at Christmas. No regrets thus far, it's nice. However, I don't need 32GB RAM and as I am setting up Gentoo and ZFS root and am very busy (lost two days to flying this week already) I have not yet completed setup, so there may be some iceberg issues... https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Dell_XPS_15_9560
I'm a happy XPS 13 9360 (i7-8550U, 16 GB RAM, 512 GB SSD) user and have mixed feelings about the latest XPS 13. Biggest reason why I opted for the XPS 13 is the size -- it is literally the smallest 13.3" laptop on the market.
My 2 cents based on the stuff I read online:
- The new one is even smaller and lighter, a big plus in my book.
- USB-C exclusively seems good and bad at the same time. Three USB ports on 9360 all charge my phone at different speeds (two USB-A, one USB-C): Android reports "charging slowly", "charging" and "charging rapidly" depending on the port, and I _love_ having the option of charging my phone slowly, as the battery loses less capacity over time that way (due to reduced stress and heat). I don't mind having USB-C dongles around, but it would be great if all peripherals moved to USB-C, therefore having a USB-A port would be convenient, despite USB-C being progressive and pushing the market to switch. I see it as a good intent on Dell's part.
- Dislike microSD port. SD cards are faster and cheaper compared to microSD and with the new laptop one physically can't fit an SD card in it. So one would have to use an SD -> USB adapter, which most likely has USB-A on the other end, plus a USB-A -> USB-C dongle. Ugh.
- 4K screen not really needed. Not a big difference on 13.3", uses more power and QHD+ on 9360 can use nice 2X integer scaling -- shady fractional not needed.
- Equivalent configuration of my 9360 costs more than 2000 USD, tax excluded. I paid ~1400 USD for mine with the tax included, a non-refurbished model.
I've been waiting for the 9370 announcement and today I bought a 9360 :)
The bigger battery is nice, USB-A is nice. The weight is the same. Don't care about placement or camera. And the slower RAM doesn't bother me.
I got the updated version with an 8th gen that has win10 pre-installed, since the 9360 with 8th gen is pnly with win10. That's OK, was planning on setting up dual boot anyway.
The hardware is lovely but the available configurations make me sad. For compiling the projects I work on, I need an i7 and 16 GB of memory. But this configuration only comes with the touchscreen, which is not only useless but destroys battery life, has a far inferior viewing angle, and adds an obscene amount to the cost. Amusingly, the config that I want is available, but not to me, because I'm not in Europe. I would buy this in a heartbeat otherwise.
Re: touch. I just bought an XPS15 with 16GB for 1900AUD. It has touch, which I don't use. The viewing angle is wonderful, basically 360 degrees with no degredation and in this respect is no different to my 2013 Macbook Pro. AFAIK from reading other people's setups (see external resources at https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Dell_XPS_15_9560 ) you can disable touch to save power.
Re: cost. Macbook Pro in similar power range is like 3500AUD. So I'm not complaining.
Re: grunt. I also compile stuff sometimes (Gentoo user!) but generally don't need so much RAM. If you really need fast high power compilation consider a decent CI setup with on-demand cloud instances instead... means you don't need to pay over the top for occasionally used local grunt. Also works for others on the same project and enforces clean operations patterns (continuous deployment / effective build documentation).
My biggest problem is that with these screens Linux hiDPI support for fractional scaling is just bad. Sure, you can hack it. And unity, for it's failings, pretty much just works. But the rest of the space is horrendous.
8GB of RAM? Seriously? That's a non starter for me as a developer that works on multiple projects daily. At any given moment I'm running 3 or 4 backends, an equal or greater number of front ends, test suites, a vagrant VM... I can barely get by with 16.
> Why can't I get 16gb ram and have a 1080p screen?
I'm guessing there isn't much demand for lo res screens on high end laptops. I think that's probably especially true for machines that are mostly about working with text. Who wants to look at jagged type?
I've had so many problems with my XPS 13 that I bought in 2016 that I will never buy another one. Killer WiFi card was utter crap, laptop has issues going to sleep and waking up when closing the lid (sometimes it would hang on the the dell screen when trying to wake up and never recover), etc. Purely anecdotal, but a hard pass for me. Lenovo is my new laptop brand of choice.
I went the other direction. Bought a Thinkpad due to how amazing they were in the past. Found that the build quality had gone way down. Was pretty disappointed as this expensive piece of hardware developed cracks on the casing within the first year.
Switched to an XPS 15 and have been very happy. Love the build quality, specs are good enough. Battery life is much better even on Linux.
I have a kaby lake xps 13 and have never seen it fail to resume (and I suspend/resume very frequently). There is a really annoying bug between the dell bios and the intel pstate driver where it often gets stuck at a super low cpu frequency after resume though :(
The Killer wifi has been reliable for me, IMO atheros or intel is always a good choice for wifi on linux
Seconded. Build quality on the 9360 isn't great, trackpad and keyboard leave much to be desired for a high-end laptop. CPU seems to be throttled to deal with overheating, so performance just feels lacking.
Coil whine, stability and WiFi (terrible at first) have improved after some BIOS updates this year. Also my trackpad has stopped rattling, probably dirt got into the gap and plugged it.
Dell customer service experience was also poor when buying. Next laptop I'll be going back to Lenovo.
Lenovo's higher-end machines are still solid, but their midrange and low-end machines are really disappointing. Sucks that you've had this experience, but among the folks I work with, Dell's high-end machines have a rep for being really reliable in both Windows and Linux. My next machine's probably an Alienware 13, but the lighter XPS 13 is real tempting too.
On most laptops you can swap the killer WiFi card for an Intel one using a screwdriver and 15 minutes. Drivers also "just work" on all three relevant desktop OS for the Intel chipset.
I'm optimistic about this product line but I don't think it's there yet. I have a 13" 9360 and while the price was good, it does feel under-powered, specifically the 8G maximum memory configuration with the non-touchscreen.
Mine does have the "coil whine" thing, although it doesn't really bother me since I'm usually wearing headphones when I use it. But overall, the build quality is just pathetic compared to my Macbook, and this is supposed to be a competitor. The touchpad is way worse, the carbon fiber thing is cheesy, the awkwardly fat bezel at the bottom of the display is silly, the fact that you need a $100 dock to connect to external monitors is ridiculous, the webcam is weirdly placed in the bottom left of the display, there are just a bunch of strange/bad design choices.
That was all the bad things - otherwise it's better than any non-Macbook I've used. It's lightweight, small, gets the "little notebook you can take anywhere" niche fairly well. I hope they listen to feedback and iterate, but I can't say I'd eagerly recommend it.
I settled on the 13.3" form factor 6 years ago, but the lack of all dedicated PgUp, PgDown, Home, End, Ins, Del keys puts me off (I'm very used to copy/paste with Ctrl/Shift-Ins and whole line selection). Well, I'm sticking with the small ProBooks and Lenovos for now.
Selling a laptop with 4gb in this day and age is a joke, right? Especially a developer edition? Why bother. Even the Apple Macbook (not pro) come with at least 8gb.
[+] [-] dangrossman|8 years ago|reply
My list of problems:
* Coil whine
* Noisy fans
* Heat issues
* USB-C port has a bad pin (only works in one orientation with pressure)
* Charging port inconsistently charges
* Bad cell in the battery, so it suddenly shuts off without warning when on battery
The charging issues started just around the 12 month mark, so I quickly sent to a repair center under warranty. They returned it with a note that said "mainboard replaced", but nothing had actually been replaced. Same bad pin on the USB-C port (everything I plug into it only works "upside down", and that port is part of the mainboard), same dust in the ports as when I mailed it, etc. By the time they shipped it back, the warranty had expired.
If you're going to buy one of these, I recommend buying an extended warranty. I do also recommend the touchscreen. I've heard the i5 versions have less problems, I would probably take the performance hit next time if it meant a more reliable and longer-lasting machine.
[+] [-] barton808|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] echlebek|8 years ago|reply
The machine was not really usable for professional work.
I now have a Thinkpad X1 Carbon 5th gen. It has no major issues and works reliably, even with Linux as the primary OS. Granted, it was more expensive, but well worth the purchase price.
[+] [-] ethbro|8 years ago|reply
I bought it used, from the outlet, on a lark. This was the consumer version, not even dev.
The damn thing's been the laptop equivalent of a Kabar knife. Deleted the Windows install and tossed Ubuntu on there. Then drops, generally rough treatment, and it's still running happily. No coil whine at all.
The only complaints I have were that the SSD was the Samsung model with serious degradation issues (solved via replacement), and the mouse was finicky until some patched drivers made it upstream.
I feel like quality control issues are a fact of life nowadays. (Aside from LG, because seriously, #&@$ that company for the 5x bootloop handling)
[+] [-] craftyguy|8 years ago|reply
Damn it Dell, fix this shit.
It existed on my HSW XPS 13 developer edition, and this "non-developer edition" KBL XPS 13 I just purchased.
I can totally sympathize with problems like this that surface, but I have no sympathy for a company that seems to ignore this issue for several generations. My next development laptop will probably not be an XPS, and will probably not be a Dell.
[+] [-] metaphor|8 years ago|reply
Care to share your usecase(s) that drive why you'd recommend the touchscreen?
On the plus side, I would imagine higher resolution translates to crisper text.
But, at the moment, I couldn't justify it to myself for several reasons:
1. Perceived negative impact on battery uptime
2. Screen wobble and fingerprints on touch
3. $350 premium over equivalent non-touch spec
[+] [-] scrollaway|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] slavik81|8 years ago|reply
An extended warranty would not have helped in my case. That would have just extend the pain.
[+] [-] gambiting|8 years ago|reply
- Coil whine
- noisy fans
- Computer doesn't shut down(or go to sleep) about 50% of the time. The screen turns off, but the fan stays on and the only way to wake it up again is to hold the power button down. Apparently it's a common issue with them and there's loads of threads about it on the internet with no solution anywhere.
[+] [-] lowbloodsugar|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] puzzle|8 years ago|reply
I don't need the touchscreen, but it's the only way to get 16GB of RAM in the US. Really, Dell, this is totally your doing. Same with that coil whine. I thought you had sorted that out after the Latitude I bought fifteen years ago.
[+] [-] ZuLuuuuuu|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Shoothe|8 years ago|reply
Unfortunately the level of service also dropped significantly. When I bought XPS 12 6 years ago it was stellar making me a loyal customer but now... some things can be blamed on Intel (broken Thunderbolt, and the TB15 fiasco) but not all...
[+] [-] jopsen|8 years ago|reply
That's why I intermediately returned the one I bought.
[+] [-] chj|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] songco|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] inconsistency|8 years ago|reply
* Upgrading from win 8.1 to win 10 causes frequent bluescreens unless speedstep is disabled, which leads to massive heat issues. There havn't been any driver updates since, so Dell seem to have no interest in fixing this.
* Random electric shocks where my arms touch the front of the unit while typing. Happens whether plugged in or not. Super annoying.
Overall I honestly can't recommend these. Reasonably good specs and sleek design but flaky construction and too many issues to be worth it. I'll probably get an HP next.
[+] [-] torgard|8 years ago|reply
I mean, who uses touch screens for development? I can't really imagine a scenario where it would be helpful for me. Maybe when doing work in Illustrator and Photoshop, but I usually use a different machine for that anyhow, because of Adobe's lack of Linux support.
I don't want to pay for something I won't use.
I am otherwise actively looking for a laptop. System76 does not have European keyboard layouts, otherwise I would go with them.
[+] [-] kingosticks|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] paulmd|8 years ago|reply
https://thume.ca/screentunes/
In my experience virtually all LCD displays have it to some degree, you just don't notice it except with certain patterns (like that one) that interact with the scanout mechanism.
[+] [-] scorown|8 years ago|reply
- Awful coil whine on the power adapter.
- Touchpad is annoying to use when clicking moves the finger resulting in wrong place click.
- Had to replace Killer wifi card with Intel's, Dell's support was top notch here.
- If you don't have nails, opening lid can be an unusual experience, especially when laptop is sitting on top of the dock.
Coming from Thinkpad W530 and miss it but our company switched from Lenovo to Dell
[+] [-] dingo_bat|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ascendantlogic|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nkkollaw|8 years ago|reply
Specially if you have "developer" in your product name, why can't they figure out that 16:9 is not the best aspect ratio for everyone?
I write code the whole day, not watch movies. That huge extra vertical space _does_ make a difference.
[+] [-] contingencies|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] davidw|8 years ago|reply
I don't like having the camera in the lower left corner, but I don't use it much so it's not that big a deal.
[+] [-] baseethrowaway|8 years ago|reply
My 2 cents based on the stuff I read online:
- The new one is even smaller and lighter, a big plus in my book.
- USB-C exclusively seems good and bad at the same time. Three USB ports on 9360 all charge my phone at different speeds (two USB-A, one USB-C): Android reports "charging slowly", "charging" and "charging rapidly" depending on the port, and I _love_ having the option of charging my phone slowly, as the battery loses less capacity over time that way (due to reduced stress and heat). I don't mind having USB-C dongles around, but it would be great if all peripherals moved to USB-C, therefore having a USB-A port would be convenient, despite USB-C being progressive and pushing the market to switch. I see it as a good intent on Dell's part.
- Dislike microSD port. SD cards are faster and cheaper compared to microSD and with the new laptop one physically can't fit an SD card in it. So one would have to use an SD -> USB adapter, which most likely has USB-A on the other end, plus a USB-A -> USB-C dongle. Ugh.
- 4K screen not really needed. Not a big difference on 13.3", uses more power and QHD+ on 9360 can use nice 2X integer scaling -- shady fractional not needed.
- Equivalent configuration of my 9360 costs more than 2000 USD, tax excluded. I paid ~1400 USD for mine with the tax included, a non-refurbished model.
[+] [-] augustl|8 years ago|reply
The bigger battery is nice, USB-A is nice. The weight is the same. Don't care about placement or camera. And the slower RAM doesn't bother me.
I got the updated version with an 8th gen that has win10 pre-installed, since the 9360 with 8th gen is pnly with win10. That's OK, was planning on setting up dual boot anyway.
[+] [-] dsr_|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kibwen|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] contingencies|8 years ago|reply
Re: cost. Macbook Pro in similar power range is like 3500AUD. So I'm not complaining.
Re: grunt. I also compile stuff sometimes (Gentoo user!) but generally don't need so much RAM. If you really need fast high power compilation consider a decent CI setup with on-demand cloud instances instead... means you don't need to pay over the top for occasionally used local grunt. Also works for others on the same project and enforces clean operations patterns (continuous deployment / effective build documentation).
[+] [-] pkilgore|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jhasse|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bakedbean|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cevn|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] criddell|8 years ago|reply
I'm guessing there isn't much demand for lo res screens on high end laptops. I think that's probably especially true for machines that are mostly about working with text. Who wants to look at jagged type?
[+] [-] Tepix|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] csdreamer7|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rsynnott|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ythn|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gtaylor|8 years ago|reply
Switched to an XPS 15 and have been very happy. Love the build quality, specs are good enough. Battery life is much better even on Linux.
YMMV!
[+] [-] bwat49|8 years ago|reply
The Killer wifi has been reliable for me, IMO atheros or intel is always a good choice for wifi on linux
[+] [-] 3princip|8 years ago|reply
Coil whine, stability and WiFi (terrible at first) have improved after some BIOS updates this year. Also my trackpad has stopped rattling, probably dirt got into the gap and plugged it.
Dell customer service experience was also poor when buying. Next laptop I'll be going back to Lenovo.
[+] [-] eropple|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] api_or_ipa|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ReverseCold|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] foodstances|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 52804375092485|8 years ago|reply
Mine does have the "coil whine" thing, although it doesn't really bother me since I'm usually wearing headphones when I use it. But overall, the build quality is just pathetic compared to my Macbook, and this is supposed to be a competitor. The touchpad is way worse, the carbon fiber thing is cheesy, the awkwardly fat bezel at the bottom of the display is silly, the fact that you need a $100 dock to connect to external monitors is ridiculous, the webcam is weirdly placed in the bottom left of the display, there are just a bunch of strange/bad design choices.
That was all the bad things - otherwise it's better than any non-Macbook I've used. It's lightweight, small, gets the "little notebook you can take anywhere" niche fairly well. I hope they listen to feedback and iterate, but I can't say I'd eagerly recommend it.
[+] [-] gattr|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] megy|8 years ago|reply