Red Dawn in Lapland

[joelrunyon]

Terribly interesting.

I ran an ultra marathon in Lapland last winter and it's an incredible, surreal place.

Also, it was very interesting to see the pseudo-paranoia some of our hosts (here and in Estonia) had about Russia. One made the point to me that "your paranoia is justified when you've been occupied on and off so many times over the last century."

[jacquesm]

> Also, it was very interesting to see the pseudo-paranoia some of our hosts (here and in Estonia) had about Russia.

All of the Baltics have this, not without reason. Keep in mind too that Kaliningrad is Russian and that the shortest path between Russia major and Kaliningrad runs right through Lithuania, just a little bit North of the Polish border.

With what happened in Ukraine in recent memory you can't really fault the people there for being paranoid.

[mstade]

The paranoia is real. I'm of Swedish-Baltic descent and since a very early age was taught that Russians are not to be trusted, for the very reason you mention (occupation.) This paranoia runs very deep in Baltic culture, in my experience, however in Swedish culture much less so – presumably because we don't share a border with Russia.

Not gonna lie, when Russia entered Crimea I got a pit in my stomach.

[fishcolorbrick]

@PeopleOfFinland, one of those Twitter accounts that is run by a different person every week, was ran by a Saami indigenous person native to Lapland last week and they had some criticism of this style of article where Lapland is portrayed as wilderness without reference to the Saami, who've lived there for 10k years.

https://twitter.com/PeopleOfFinland/status/95006224332396954...

[bmelton]

Coincidentally, in looking for Christmas movies for the holidays, I stumbled across "Rare Exports: A Christmas Tale[1]". I won't go into spoilers, but a) it was an unexpectedly smart horror film , and b) seemed to be rooted in actual mythology. Of course, as I knew nothing of the Saami people of Lapland, I started delving into them, their associations with Santa and Christmas, etc., and learned that they've been treated with a great deal of disrespect[2], which actually help to put some parts of the movie in context.

Particularly disturbing to me was this passage in the Wiki:

    The genetic makeup of Sami people has been extensively studied for as 
    long as such research has been in existence. Ethnographic photography 
    of the Sami began with the invention of the camera in the 19th century.[137] 
    This continued on into the 1920s and 1930s, when Sami were photographed 
    naked and anatomically measured by scientists, with the help of the 
    local police—sometimes at gunpoint—to collect data that would justify 
    their own racial theories.

[1] - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1401143/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1

[2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sami_people#Discrimination_aga...

[yeahforsureman]

It doesn't really make sense to claim the Saami have lived there for 10k years. Samic language(s) arrived in that area more like 1.5k years ago.[1] Sure, there were people there before that, but they were not "Saami" in any meaningful sense. But yeah, it's before the Finns, anyway.

[1] https://www.academia.edu/4811760/An_Essay_on_Saami_Ethnoling...

[zokier]

While I do understand (and mostly approve) the general criticism, I'm not sure if it really applies to this article specifically. Mostly because the article discusses the operation of Finnish defense forces and the overall military situation in the area, a topic of I feel Sámi are of little relevance. Also I don't see significant unfair characterization of Lapland (as "uninhabited, uncivilized wilderness") in the article.

[Jhsto]

I think self-sufficiency is also worth mentioning. The state owns a monopoly in railways and a stake in a national airline. Also, most equipment is produced within Finland (Nokia even made assault rifle ammunition at one point), supposedly to minimize shortage in case of war.

Moreover, about survival, I recall tactics for nuclear war. The instructions were to take cover and use spruce branches to shake off the fallout, and then continue fighting.

[kaitai]

I seem to remember something about fireplaces or wood stoves being required in new construction, as well, in order to maintain energy independence on an individual-house basis if necessary.

[sbmthakur]

I believe Russian paranoia in Finland is justified. And recalling how Fins cozied up to the Nazis, I guess it's pretty much same for the Russians.

[andersriutta]

In the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact [0], the USSR cozied up to the Nazis with a plan for dividing up the countries unfortunate enough to be located in between them. In 1939, the USSR launched an unprovoked war of aggression against Finland.

The question of how Finland should have responded, especially from 1941 on, is a valid topic of discussion, but this discussion must be based on fact, taking into account the context of Soviet aggression and the lack of options available to Finland. Limiting yourself to what was known at the time, what would you have advised Finland to do?

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pac...

[jacquesm]

> And recalling how Fins cozied up to the Nazis

Not until after they were rebuffed by Sweden and Great Britain, there was no way they were going to stand up to Russia in the longer term without outside help.

[jernfrost]

I would have done the same if it was about national survival. Nobody was coming to Finland's aid. They had run out of options. Nazi Germany was the last option.

Not exactly first or last time this has happened. Vietnam had been promised independence from the US after WWII, and tried to align with the US. When they US, renegaded on their promise and let France take Vietnam back, those fighting for Vietnamese independence ran out of options, and eventually allied with their last option, the Soviets.

Same with the founding of Israel. the UK and the US refused to take in jewish refugees from Nazi Germany. It left jews with the shitty option of declaring the state of Israel for their own survival.

People want to survive so they pick the options they have even if they aren't great. Then they get to listen to people from big countries moralize and criticize for the rest of their existence.

Okay, that last part was kind of exaggerated ;-)

[skrebbel]

As an outsider who lived in Finland, I agree the paranoia about Russia is real and I disagree that it's justified. Unlike the Baltics, there is no sizeable Russian minority that "needs protection" nor is Finland in the way between a Russian exclave such as Kaliningrad.

There is no geopolitical reason to invade Finland and there is also no economical reason to do so. Most companies are foreign owned and would be pulled out of Finland the moment an invasion would start. The main natural resource of Finland is trees, which Russia has more than plenty of. Adding Finland to Russia simply solves no problem whatsoever, perceived or real.

Finns ignore this. They're paranoid because their parents taught them to, whose parents taught them to until you reach turtles.

[_lbaq]

Factoid: Large areas of both Finland and Sweden has been historically called Lapland, I never know which one they write about when you see it in a headline. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sápmi

[huhtenberg]

One thing to keep in mind is that Finland was a part of the Russian Empire from 1806 to 1917. It had a fair amount of autonomy, but it was a part of Russia still. The "Winter War" was in 1939, which puts it just 20 years after Fins used the post-revolution mess and declared their independence.

[pmoriarty]

Fascinating article, but I wish it had also described what was happening on the Russian side of the border.

The Finns are not the only ones who've learned lessons from the Winter War. If Russia has any plans for another invasion, you can be sure they would be keen not to get humiliated a second time. No doubt the Russians are making their own contingency plans, and undergoing their own cold-weather training in freezing terrain that Russia itself has no shortage of. It's unlikely that they would go in to Finland unprepared again.

[jacquesm]

Homecourt advantage.

[Zeebrommer]

Times have changed. If Russia were to invade Finland today, they wouldn't do it in the midst of winter, with large armies along roads that can easily be cut off. I think the Fins are right in preparing for the worst, or as the department of Defense puts it "messaging about where the limits are". I am very curious about what kind of warfare they are expecting from the east though.

[dyyni]

>I am very curious about what kind of warfare they are expecting from the east though.

What they're prepared for is a "strategic strike" and/or a limited scale invasion which is a part of a larger conflict in Europe. Combined arms and fast pace, but not a hybrid war like in Crimea or a separate war where Russia is only engaged in Finland. The Finnish Army reformed their doctrine quite recently [1] with the goal of ensuring adequate performance with lesser troops (war time strength has been reduced significantly in the 2000s).

[1] video with Eng subtitles: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2crAx8kibis

[jernfrost]

I think you overestimate the Russians grossly. They screwed up in countless wars since then against small nations. They couldn't take out Czeczenia. They failed in Afghanistan. Why should they succeed in Finland.

Russia is capable of dealing with long drawn out battles on home turf. They have not displayed that great ability to invade. To be real, neither has really the US either.

You can't underestimate an opponent fighting on home turf for their own independence against an opponent, where the soldiers don't really see the reason why they are invading in the first place.

Also remember for whatever tech or equipment the Russians have. They have really shitty democratic traditions. They don't let their men work independently. History has shown again and again that top heavy armies are ineffective.

It is how Israel beat 3x bigger Arab armies, even when the Arabs had better tech.

[WillyOnWheels]

photos of the course the Finnish forces invited the US squad to

https://imgur.com/gallery/Wc3P1

[brabel]

They are glorifying a brutal war that nobody could win. Sad to see war preparation rather than friendship and dialog in response to instability.

[nabla9]

You need two for peace. Only one is enough to start a war.

Finland has done everything it can to be friendly with Russia but Russia want's to play the role of a bully. Just few years ago Russia started to intentionally violate Finnish airspace. Finnish Air Force had to increase preparedness to the level where drivers sit in the cockpit and scramble to intercept. Today Russia is fighting constant propaganda war against Finland within Russia and inside Finland.

[classicsnoot]

When has friendliness and diplomacy ever mitigated a threat from an invasive or expansionist neighbor? I hear this refrain quite often, but people who say it are usually referring to some glorious future event wherein two or more belligerents come to the table as equals, share some tea, then discuss what's really going on. To my understanding of history (limited though it may be) this has never happened unless both parties are capable of destroying each other. If there is any imbalance in the capabilities, diplomacy is a facade used to wrangle for time and optimum position. The concept of diplomacy in lieu of conflict is an interesting theory that has never really been borne out in practice. As Thucydides so elegantly put it, "the strong do what they can, the weak suffer what they must."

[mieseratte]

Si vis pacem, para bellum

[jacquesm]

When you have a dictatorship next door that has already invaded at least one other country recently being prepared is a pretty good strategy.

[Bromskloss]

Oh, I thought we were talking about something else: _Space Invasion of Lapland_

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Invasion_of_Lapland

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3Dxo8tYU3M

[minipci1321]

possibly of interest:

http://beaufortmagazine.fi/2014/08/seven-years-sailing/

[ensiferum]

I think the best defense for Finland would be to have a couple of nukes pointed at Moscow. You know.. just as a stabilizer.

[alkonaut]

I doubt nukes are a good idea for a small country, but you need a high threshold for the aggressor, I.e “we know you’ll defeat us in a week if you try, but it will always cost more than you are willing to pay”. A good second strike capability is key. Sadly both Finland and Sweden reduced that capability in the last 20 years (see e.g Sweden’s road airbase System). Defense is only a four now after Crimea - and a proper invasion defense might never exist again. A more reasonable defense than both nukes and a defense against a massive invasion would be a second strike ability through sub launched (conventional) cruise missiles or similar. Something that hurts and also is guaranteed to last a week.

[1001101]

Motti (chopped wood) tactics, and the White Death served them well in the Winter War.