> and reclaimed woods that we can't afford to grow any longer. and wood fiber products. and hdpe.
Copper (all metal) yes. But reclaimed wood costs more than alternatives. I looked into it once - the premium I would have to pay to keep wood out of a landfill was just unrealistic.
Wood fiber is only worth it from industrial plants that create it in quantity, and without contaminants.
HDPE is not worth recycling - it costs more than just making it fresh.
I propose just burn it for energy (and thus reduce oil use). Then use that oil to make other HDPE. The lifecycle works out better that way.
You're right. Scrap metal collection, architectural salvage, and so on are all important forms of reuse. I was being a little glib and talking mostly about the kind of multiple-plastic-bin consumer goods recycling that's most visible.
Glass is so worthless for recycling, all they do with it is crush it and use it to cover landfill each night to keep down rodents and dust. That's considered "recycled".
> As for an honest society, do you have some historical reference point, or are you just aiming for utopia?
For some reason greenwashing is really prevalent among people who should know better (policy makers, scientists, environmentalists). And regular people desperately want recycling to be a real thing so that they feel better about themself.
It's a perfect match, leading to the situation we have now.
No, glass is definitely recycled in the true sense at least some of the time. The key word to look for when researching this is "cullet": crushed glass used as a furnace input.
e.g. Here, http://uk.saint-gobain-glass.com/trade-customers/float-glass... : "SGG UK also utilises, on average, 30% recycled glass (cullet) in the batch, which has the additional benefit of lowering the melting point of the batch, resulting in a more efficient process."
Broken glass may be essentially worthless, but intact bottles can be cleaned and refilled. Since that actually happens, I imagine the logistics involved to be somewhat cost-effective compared to making new glass (or maybe it's all fueled by subsidies).
Glass can only be recycled so many times and then it is worthless as you say. Value depends on the quality, color, and clarity of the glass. Given that cullet is necessary to make new glass, there is always a market for it. Best of all though, bottles can be cleaned and reused many times for a fraction of the energy cost of making new ones.
There are a lot of subtleties to recycling, some in favor generally, environmentally, and economically... some not.
convolvatron|8 years ago
no. its not like we can really close the loop, but there are a lot of things that are perfectly viable to melt down and reuse.
in my shop, and quite a lot of others, we have a crucible and a rolling mill for metal scraps of any sufficiently valuable material.
ars|8 years ago
Copper (all metal) yes. But reclaimed wood costs more than alternatives. I looked into it once - the premium I would have to pay to keep wood out of a landfill was just unrealistic.
Wood fiber is only worth it from industrial plants that create it in quantity, and without contaminants.
HDPE is not worth recycling - it costs more than just making it fresh.
I propose just burn it for energy (and thus reduce oil use). Then use that oil to make other HDPE. The lifecycle works out better that way.
quotemstr|8 years ago
ars|8 years ago
Glass is so worthless for recycling, all they do with it is crush it and use it to cover landfill each night to keep down rodents and dust. That's considered "recycled".
> As for an honest society, do you have some historical reference point, or are you just aiming for utopia?
For some reason greenwashing is really prevalent among people who should know better (policy makers, scientists, environmentalists). And regular people desperately want recycling to be a real thing so that they feel better about themself.
It's a perfect match, leading to the situation we have now.
pjc50|8 years ago
e.g. Here, http://uk.saint-gobain-glass.com/trade-customers/float-glass... : "SGG UK also utilises, on average, 30% recycled glass (cullet) in the batch, which has the additional benefit of lowering the melting point of the batch, resulting in a more efficient process."
A discussion of the problem of having too much of the wrong colour glass in UK wine bottles: https://www.glass-ts.com/userfiles/files/2005%20-%20WRAP%20-...
yorwba|8 years ago
QAPereo|8 years ago
There are a lot of subtleties to recycling, some in favor generally, environmentally, and economically... some not.