Tldr politics, glass ceilings, re-orgs, purposeless/abandoned projects. As a former Googler, I can see why people post these: internally Google is hyper-evangelized as the best place to work ever (why would you work anywhere else). When leaving, its a necessary step to form a good argument for yourself as to why you've decided to go against the culture. The personal spin makes it an interesting read.
For me, it was easy. In 2015, we really wanted to move back to our east coast flyover-city home from the Bay Area. Google would not let me work remotely, but Netflix would. So it was a no-brainer.
It turned out to be a great move. In my experience, just about everything is better about Netflix as compared to Google: impact, pay, freedom, culture. The only thing that's worse is that I really miss the on-campus food at Google. And TGIF, eng-misc, etc.
> As a former Googler, I can see why people post these: internally Google is hyper-evangelized as the best place to work ever (why would you work anywhere else). When leaving, its a necessary step to form a good argument for yourself as to why you've decided to go against the culture.
As another former Googler, this was one of the most concerning things about my experience at Google. The pressure I put on myself and received from others when I was debating whether to leave was enormous, especially because it was my first job. Nevermind the rampant imposter syndrome while you still work there. In hindsight, it was super toxic and led me to stay there even longer than was good for me and burning out harder. I've talked to a few current Googlers and Xooglers who also felt that way.
I always find the "best places to work" type lists a lot of crap. Usually its just a case of biggest and best known companies. I have worked for a real mix of places and the biggest companies haven't been any better than the smaller ones. Usually a good manager makes a far bigger difference.
This is one of the scariest things about Google, and indicative of its public face, too. People in the US often compare the government to Big Brother in 1984, but the government can't be Big Brother if people think that, as one of the most important qualities of Big Brother was that people actually loved him. The entire system rested on the idea that people believe in it out of love, not out of fear. Google seems to be the same. Only when you insist on having both power and the love of those you have power over can you truly be Big Brother.
Yeah I've been at Google a decade and I strongly don't agree with the notion that it's hyper evangelized as the best place to work. In official communications, yes, but I think most people here are aware of the drawbacks and problems. Maybe even a little too aware. Internal lists are rife with the discussions of even the slightest deviation from perfect execution on the part of management, product teams, the culture, etc. That's not to say there's no one here with rose tinted goggles, but I think most people have their eyes open.
I'm not ever wanting to work at Google, but that process resonates loudly with my experience of leaving academia.
From the inside you're dealing with a lot of people who have internalized the job as part of their identity and it's very difficult to just up and leave without formulating a narrative about why it's okay.
If you have to evangelize about how awesome it is to work there, that sounds like a cult and not culture.
It also sounds like Microsoft in the 90’s, when they were stepping on necks and didn’t give a shit about anybody else. Because they were better than everybody else and why should you worry about inferior people?
Although in MS’s case they took it a step further: we are the best people in the world.
Yes, one needs a reason for leaving a company. But at the same time, one leaves a company or a religion or a relationship for a reason. The argument and reasoning necessitate the departure; they're not developed post hoc.
Of course, additional supporting reasons become clear as one looks for and finds the door, and the understanding for why a person or institution is wrong for you evolves as you separate.
I'd be interested in hearing more about how that understanding/perspective changes over time.
I think such situation exists in almost all high-salary sectors. Financial - why I left Golman/Merrill Lynch/Wall Street stories, etc. People will try to explain everything from moral side. It's permanent dilemma.
In fairness, you really should have a good reason for leaving a company like Google. The pluses of working there are substantial. If you're leaving lightly, you are almost certainly making a mistake.
When I worked at Aflac, it was the largest civilian employer in Columbus, GA. It had the tallest building in town. If I made small talk while getting a haircut or buying lunch in town, people would ooh and aah that I had a job there. This was a little funny and surreal because I could not get promoted out of my entry level job. I felt like a loser, yet here were people acting like I'm not worthy.
When I quit, I left town and began doing freelance work. If I had stayed in town or transferred to a different job at a smaller company, I might have felt compelled to justify my decision to leave. I probably would have gotten a lot of social push back and inquiries as to why on earth I would do such a thing.
I imagine most of these posts are written partly for that reason. It cuts back on being asked in the first place and then you can email the link the next 20 times you are asked. Plus, it is free therapy, among other things.
I think this is accentuated because for a lot of people, when you move across the country right after college to work at a big company like Google, it becomes your life. Early on, you don't know anyone and you spend way too much time working because that's what you do when you're fresh out of college new hire in a new town. As time goes on, most of the friends you make are friends from work and even if you get a pretty healthy work-life balance, a lot of your free time is spent hanging out with your friends from work.
So when the time comes for you to leave the company, you aren't just leaving the company, you're leaving your entire life. It's the life change of leaving your job, getting divorced, and moving to a new town all rolled into one: it is one of the most significant events in your life, and you can't not think about it and try to understand it and explain it to other people.
There was a tool at Google called 'percent' that you could run that would tell you what percent of the employees had joined Google after you (some measure of gravitas was associated with people who had been there 'a long time'). It was not surprising that Google hired a lot of people, there were like 50 people in my 'noogler' class. But the number of people reported as working at Google did not go up at a similar rate. When you did the math it was pretty clear there are many people who spend a relatively short amount of time there.
As a result I'm a bit surprised that there aren't even more of these stories. At lunch one day the topic came up and we joked it would be interesting if engineers could earn medals (similar to the ones in the military) for each company they worked for. It would make for an interesting fashion accessory.
One doesn't need to speculate about who is leaving.
It is very easy to tell exactly who leaves google. It has a list available to any employee which is auto-updated and often includes any farewell message the leaving person sent.
> As a result I'm a bit surprised that there aren't even more of these stories.
I'm not all that surprised. I can see people that stay a relatively short period of time just attributing it to a bad fit, or blaming themselves. Once you've established yourself comfortably and see yourself as an employee (and not a "new hire"), it's much more obvious that the choice is purely because you decided you wanted to change the status quo, and that might be something people feel better about talking about, or even feel compelled to talk about.
On a somewhat related note, I have found Algolia to be an effective way to search for popular stories that got flagged. Once or twice a day I go to hn.algolia.com and view popular stories for the last 24 hours. This is also an effective way to review popular stories for the last day, whether they got flagged or not. Since Algolia is using a much simpler ranking than the Hacker News front page, you get a much more stable view, which is a nice alternative to submissions flying up and down on the front page at various speeds.
I'm curious to see what kind of discussion this generates before the HN mods inevitably kick it off the front page. Most of these links seem to be of employees who quit, but I'll add my article as a user who quit:
“First, I do not sit down at my desk to put into verse something that is already clear in my mind. If it were clear in my mind, I should have no incentive or need to write about it. We do not write in order to be understood; we write in order to understand.”
I incidentally made the same search yesterday because I had the same question regarding the tone, in light of how the most recent viral post (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16220666) utterly slams Google.
Unless there's corporate malfeasance, it's counterproductive in the long run to talk so badly about a former employer, especially on a forever-archived blog post. Even if it does feel good to let out pent-up thoughts.
When I wrote a blog post about leaving Apple (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14270897), I made a conscious effort to be objective with the rationale why I left (to grow my technical skills), and not emotionally judge Apple as a company (I still strongly support Apple).
It was actually interesting to read some of these. Most of them seemed to have really been turned off by the culture or the morals of what they were / are doing.
Maybe it's just that it's interesting and useful to look at why folks have left a workplace that is otherwise hyped up as the best place to work in the industry. We hear plenty about Google being a great place to work. We don't hear so much about why people move on from it.
Regardless, I think working at a mega-tech-corp like any in the valley are immensely important. It shows you immediately that software is built by bureaucracy. Many large projects are in fact built that way; you have to collaborate with many teams.
Lots of people here talking about what it is like to work at Google or other companies.
I am puzzled that nobody is talking about the author's claim that Google has lost the ability to innovate and is not focused on users any more. Is he right or wrong?
Would this be useful to analyze the posters' sentiments and reasons while knowing what products / divisions they worked on / for and their position at G?
[+] [-] y3sh|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] drewg123|8 years ago|reply
It turned out to be a great move. In my experience, just about everything is better about Netflix as compared to Google: impact, pay, freedom, culture. The only thing that's worse is that I really miss the on-campus food at Google. And TGIF, eng-misc, etc.
[+] [-] bradyo|8 years ago|reply
As another former Googler, this was one of the most concerning things about my experience at Google. The pressure I put on myself and received from others when I was debating whether to leave was enormous, especially because it was my first job. Nevermind the rampant imposter syndrome while you still work there. In hindsight, it was super toxic and led me to stay there even longer than was good for me and burning out harder. I've talked to a few current Googlers and Xooglers who also felt that way.
[+] [-] collyw|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pron|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] b4lancesh33t|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] scarecrowbob|8 years ago|reply
From the inside you're dealing with a lot of people who have internalized the job as part of their identity and it's very difficult to just up and leave without formulating a narrative about why it's okay.
[+] [-] hinkley|8 years ago|reply
It also sounds like Microsoft in the 90’s, when they were stepping on necks and didn’t give a shit about anybody else. Because they were better than everybody else and why should you worry about inferior people?
Although in MS’s case they took it a step further: we are the best people in the world.
[+] [-] stochastic_monk|8 years ago|reply
Of course, additional supporting reasons become clear as one looks for and finds the door, and the understanding for why a person or institution is wrong for you evolves as you separate.
I'd be interested in hearing more about how that understanding/perspective changes over time.
[+] [-] utellme|8 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] johan_larson|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Romanulus|8 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] DoreenMichele|8 years ago|reply
When I quit, I left town and began doing freelance work. If I had stayed in town or transferred to a different job at a smaller company, I might have felt compelled to justify my decision to leave. I probably would have gotten a lot of social push back and inquiries as to why on earth I would do such a thing.
I imagine most of these posts are written partly for that reason. It cuts back on being asked in the first place and then you can email the link the next 20 times you are asked. Plus, it is free therapy, among other things.
[+] [-] saalweachter|8 years ago|reply
So when the time comes for you to leave the company, you aren't just leaving the company, you're leaving your entire life. It's the life change of leaving your job, getting divorced, and moving to a new town all rolled into one: it is one of the most significant events in your life, and you can't not think about it and try to understand it and explain it to other people.
[+] [-] sokoloff|8 years ago|reply
People who talked to him literally couldn't believe that he voluntarily left P&G and assumed he'd gotten fired. So strange.
[+] [-] ChuckMcM|8 years ago|reply
As a result I'm a bit surprised that there aren't even more of these stories. At lunch one day the topic came up and we joked it would be interesting if engineers could earn medals (similar to the ones in the military) for each company they worked for. It would make for an interesting fashion accessory.
[+] [-] compiler-guy|8 years ago|reply
It is very easy to tell exactly who leaves google. It has a list available to any employee which is auto-updated and often includes any farewell message the leaving person sent.
[+] [-] nitrogen|8 years ago|reply
Best available alternative: wear tshirt from company A with jacket from company B and backpack from company C
[+] [-] kbenson|8 years ago|reply
I'm not all that surprised. I can see people that stay a relatively short period of time just attributing it to a bad fit, or blaming themselves. Once you've established yourself comfortably and see yourself as an employee (and not a "new hire"), it's much more obvious that the choice is purely because you decided you wanted to change the status quo, and that might be something people feel better about talking about, or even feel compelled to talk about.
[+] [-] jvolkman|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jay-anderson|8 years ago|reply
We get t-shirts instead. Can't wear multiple at the same time though.
[+] [-] samlittlewood|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] curtis|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] eitland|8 years ago|reply
It surprises me how many interesting stories get flagged off the front page.
Edit: beaten by softawre
[+] [-] softawre|8 years ago|reply
https://hckrnews.com/
[+] [-] unknown|8 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] Sir_Cmpwn|8 years ago|reply
https://drewdevault.com/2016/11/16/Getting-on-without-Google...
[+] [-] tompetry|8 years ago|reply
― Cecil Day-Lewis
[+] [-] reificator|8 years ago|reply
> 404 page not found
[+] [-] shrikant|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] minimaxir|8 years ago|reply
Unless there's corporate malfeasance, it's counterproductive in the long run to talk so badly about a former employer, especially on a forever-archived blog post. Even if it does feel good to let out pent-up thoughts.
When I wrote a blog post about leaving Apple (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14270897), I made a conscious effort to be objective with the rationale why I left (to grow my technical skills), and not emotionally judge Apple as a company (I still strongly support Apple).
[+] [-] amelius|8 years ago|reply
https://hn.algolia.com/?query=why%20i%20joined%20google&sort...
[+] [-] unknown|8 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] ronilan|8 years ago|reply
https://youtu.be/yJDHkjXBtcU
[+] [-] woodandsteel|8 years ago|reply
I am puzzled that nobody is talking about the author's claim that Google has lost the ability to innovate and is not focused on users any more. Is he right or wrong?
[+] [-] dpflan|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] webXL|8 years ago|reply