> The impacts of this extra protein were not enormous. Almost everyone who started or continued weight training became stronger in these studies, whether they ate more protein or not. But those who did ramp up their protein gained an extra 10 percent or so in strength and about 25 percent in muscle mass compared to the control groups.
Maybe it's me, but 10% extra performance and 25% extra muscle mass sounds like quite a huge difference to me - "not enormous" is technically correct but also lowered my expectations to a few percentages.
"The average RET-induced increase, with all measures of 1RM included, was 27kg (mean±SD; 27±22kg22 32). Notably, dietary protein supplementation augmented the increase in 1RM strength by 2.49kg (9%; figure 2; see online supplementary figure 4), which strongly suggests that the practice of RET is a far more potent stimulus for increasing muscle strength than the addition of dietary protein supplementation."
"In addition to increasing changes in muscle strength, RET alone (≥6; 13±8weeks) resulted in an increase in FFM (1.1 ± 1.2kg), an increase in fibre CSA (808±) and an increase in mid-femur CSA (52±30mm2). Dietary protein supplementation augmented the increase in FFM by 0.30kg (27%), fibre CSA by 310µm2 (38%) and mid-femur CSA by 7.2mm2 (14%). The postexercise protein dose did not affect the efficacy of protein supplementation on RET-induced changes in FFM whereas training status (positive), age (negative) and baseline protein intake (positive) did. Relative to untrained participants, resistance-trained participants have a smaller potential for muscle growth and an attenuated postexercise muscle protein turnover. As a result, we speculate that trained persons may have less ‘degrees of freedom’ to change with RET and therefore have a greater need for protein supplementation to see increases in muscle mass. Our thesis is supported by the observation of a more consistent impact of protein supplementation on gains in FFM in resistance-trained individuals than in novice trainees."
So working out regularly increases your 1-rep max lift by 27kg. Supplementing with protein can increases that max that by 2.5kg. Resistance exercise can increase your muscle mass by 1.1kg and protein can increase muscle mass further by 0.3kg. There was no difference past a protein dose of 1.6g/kg/day and supplementation mainly benefit those starting from a higher point of muscle mass and strength.
I think we are making a grave mistake by associating going to the gym and exercise with lifting weights.
Let me explain.
I think what most people should be doing is calisthenics. I’ve been lifting weights for over a decade, but only started calisthenics two years ago. Personally, I feel calisthenics gives you a much stronger and durable body over all compared to lifting weights. It also strengthens your joints and connective tissues, which people don’t really think about until it’s too late. Aesthetically, I also feel strong calisthenic trained bodies look much more well proportioned and hardened due to the active use of stabilizer muscles. People who have trained calisthenics for a long time are deceptively strong. They don’t look particularly huge, but they perform feats of strength that even the most professional weightlifter would struggle to do. To me, this is a sign of true mastery over one’s body.
If you’re just getting started in your exercise career, try calisthenics.
Do calisthenics have the same effect on bone density(that is, increasing bone density and decreasing chances of developing osteoporosis) that lifting weights does?
I agree with your point generally though that the best exercise routine(or diet) is one that you stick with and progresses you towards your goals.
"Grave mistake" is a hyperbolic criticism, considering your only arguments for calisthenics revolve around strength based on personal anecdotal evidence, and a personal, subjective view of aesthetics.
I've tried calisthenics and lacks in many areas. For starters, it woefully neglects the legs. Pistol squats and bridges are not nearly as taxing as barbell squats and deadlifts, though bridges have the added benefit of working flexibility. Push ups and pull ups quickly reach a plateau with 1 arm variations, and at that point you're no longer doing calisthenic movements but training like a gymnast.
Calisthenics seem to be most effective at building strength for the core (pikes, leg raises, planks) and the shoulders (if you have the coordination to do hand stand push ups).
Barbell training should not be avoided. I've also had serious injuries, such as a broken humerus as a child, where rotator cuff and deltoid muscles atrophied to an extreme level; and those joints are now stronger than ever because I weight trained in specific movement patterns that are difficult to replicate with calisthenics. And I say this as someone who has also been lifting weights for over a decade and has competed in both powerlifting and bodybuilding.
The benefits of protein are historically documented by all the great bodybuilders. Nothing new here. Mainstream is always behind the freaks who dare to go against "science".
Which is amusing, because in this context the bodybuilders are fundamentally doing science. They have experiments (aka, exercise and eating regiments) that, as I understand it, are repeatable, and consistently produce the desired outcome, at least in terms of sculpted muscle and body fat.
This article kind of addresses that. It mentions that this has been known but says it is unclear whether these high protein diets are effective for groups outside of your traditional, male bodybuilder.
> High animal protein intake was positively associated with cardiovascular mortality and high plant protein intake was inversely associated with all-cause and cardiovascular mortality, especially among individuals with at least 1 lifestyle risk factor. Substitution of plant protein for animal protein, especially that from processed red meat, was associated with lower mortality, suggesting the importance of protein source.
Thanks. Do you know of any naturally-high-in-protein plant-based source that isn't soy (i.e. tofu etc) or hemp?
Asking cos I've had a hard time finding protein dense plant based alternatives, and as a vegetarian, it's really hard to get a lot of proteins from plant-based sources without processed stuff like Vega etc.
I do eat quinoa but 1) it's very expensive and 2) you have to eat 2 or 3 cups of cooked quinoa to get like 25 gms of protein which is a lot of quinoa per day.
I would add a clarifying conjecture that probably the 1.6 grams per kg of body weight per day, should be based on your lean weight, i.e. how much you would weigh with only 10 or so percent body fat. If you're obese and weigh 200kg, you don't need to eat 320g of protein per day.
What would be a natural way to find if you're taking enough protein? If my sleep patterns, digestion, stomach, bowel movement, muscular recovery are fine, am I taking enough protein in accordance with my workout regimen? Or could it be that I may be absolutely fine but still taking less protein than the one my workout requires and hence building up less?
Edit: by natural I mean without using scales, going just by how I'm feeling and body is doing.
That being said, since fecal losses of protein and short-chain peptides tend to smell incredibly bad one can use a 'sniff-test' after bowel movements to assess if protein is being lost in the feces and thus not taken up by either the intestines or the muscle.
Not pleasant, perhaps, but should be effective :-)
Define "natural" - meaning you don't want to track what you eat? If that's the case, if you simply eat 4-8oz of some sort of lean protein with every meal, 3-5 meals a day, your protein intake will be adequate.
If you want to learn more about the basics of strength training and eating healthy with more protein, you should watch this lecture from a doctor and strength coach who would agree with the ask from this article:
over 40 your main concern is to make it sustainable and avoid injuries. A mix of moderate weights couple of times a week and HIIT couple of times a week would work best.
Start slow, don't push until your broken, just push enough so your body has to adapt.
If you've not been doing a lot of exercise just starting walking for 30 mins 4 times a week can be a good start.
After a couple of weeks you'll start adapting to that and feeling a lot better. Then you might want to join up at a gym.
I'd say start with something easy like the machines for a few months. The machines aren't the best way to lift but they're pretty hard to get wrong, come with instructions and get you used to going to the gym.
Limit your time at the gym. For me 40 mins and I'm out. If you feel like you have to be there for a long time it can impact the rest of your life and cause you to give up on it. Regular workouts are key to changing. Not one off insanely intense marathon sessions.
After 3 months or so you'll start noticing a little more energy and confidence. I'd say it's time to learn some barbell lifts. Deadlift, squat, bench press and overhead press. Get good at those over a year or so and you'll be amazed at the changes you see.
Starting strength is a great book to get you going on those lifts. If you can afford it a trainer is also a great way to start. https://athleanx.com/ is also something I've heard nothing but good things about.
Mobility is also huge, learn to stretch from day one. You'll feel amazing if you can get in 20 mins 3 times a week.
No one starts doing something that they have no motivation to do. You have to decide that it matters. To cringe a bit and quote Tony Robbins anyways: “burn the boats and take the island!”
I came home from college after ending a long relationship. I was broke, depressed and quickly gaining weight. I knew I was in trouble when my Mom starting telling me I was looking "puffy" around the face. As a hockey and soccer player, this was the final straw, I knew I had to do something but was so unmotivated to do anything.
I started slow. Got a on a treadmill (you can find some for free on craiglist) and did 10 minutes a day. Then I do resistance band for about 10-15 minutes and then tried as best I could to stretch out. I started at 30 minutes, and then as I improved my diet and started to lose the weight, I increased the intensity. Yeah, I was doing 10 minutes, but I was practically sprinting by the second month. I gave up the resistance bands and started doing light free weight lifting, but doing long reps (3 sets of 20-25 reps).
My advice? Basically just do anything. Go out and walk for 15 minutes. Go run for 5 minutes every day. Go out and work in your yard, get on a bike and bike for 15 minutes. Anything that gets your blood pumping and your heart rate up is beneficial. Try as best you can to eat better. Working out is useless if you don't improve your diet.
Just start somewhere and adjust as you go. My biggest bit of advice? Listen to your body. If you're sore or doing something is painful, stop. If you're sore? Don't push it, take a few days off, switch exercises and take it easy. When you get older, it takes a LOT longer to heal and get back to working out. You don't want to pull a muscle and be sitting on your couch healing for 2 months.
Figure out what matters to you personally and frame exercise in terms of a means to achieving or aiding you in that matter.
For example, if family is important to you, being strong and fit makes it easier to take care of a young family. If you're a woman I assume pregnancy goes easier if you're physically robust beforehand. Good health ensures longevity and gives you more and better quality time with your family.
If your career or work is important then you can note that being in better health puts you in a better position to achieve your professional goals - lower chances of RSI or lengthy hospital stays, easier to put in long hours without getting tired. And of course physically fit people are more attractive and, on average, attractive people do better professionally - they get paid more, are perceived as more competent etc.
If you care about the environment, becoming fitter makes it more likely you'll walk or bike instead of driving. You'll also require less healthcare in your old age, which means fewer resources are expended on you.
I could keep going - practically any personal goal could get a bit of a boost from better health.
If you have the budget, hire a personal trainer for 1-2 hours/week. It's not cheap, but having to make the appointment or lose the money you spent is a huge motivator. They'll probably work you harder than you would work alone as well as enforce good form. I got started lifting weights this way.
Then you'll be motivated to work out on your own to save money.
I’m an undergrad, and I’ve only very rarely worked out in the past. I just wanted to share how I feel about this today. I’ll be going for my second time today.
I think some important factors for this:
- It feels good
- I’m feeling sad and am looking to feel better
- I’m not feeling too physically tired. Last night I worked out, and this morning I worked out. I feel strong and as if I have enough energy to work out
- I am not distracted with stress about any obligations (when I am stressed/distracted, I tend to forget to do certain things or will badly time manage)
I think the main factors are that I am looking to feel better and I feel somewhat energetic because I worked out last night and today.
I have wondered how to solve this problem last month. I thought about how, through school and social norms, we learn to not react to our urge to move (and movement can bring pleasure). It’s important to react to our urge to move, to have a reflex. I might be developing that now, because as I wrote, I’m goingbecause I want to feel better.
Find a competent trainer - gyms that teach Olympic Weightlifting are going to have higher caliber trainers than the typical commercial gym full of 'personal trainers.'
There's a massive technical aspect to learn that puts a more scientific spin to appeal to people like us.*
Get a gym buddy, could be any friend that wants to hit the gym too or one that already goes and doesn't mind you tagging along. Don't have to workout together, you just want someone not to disappoint and text when you want to flake.
I started going to gym at lunch time. I just eat a sandwich or a shake (Jimmy Joy) in front of my computer and then I go to the gym. It takes me a total of 50 minutes (30 minutes of actual exercising) but I could feel a real change in my body going 4 times a week.
Honestly? I'd suggest not doing so. Take walks when you want to, and consider if there's somwthing else you could do that would still benefit your life, that yoy do have motivation for.
Research by McMaster University’s Dr. Stuart Phillips and others has found that if you eat more than 20 to 30 grams of protein at a time, you don’t get any further anabolic boost. Any extra protein is simply burned for energy; unlike carbohydrate or fat, you can’t save it for later.
[+] [-] vanderZwan|8 years ago|reply
Maybe it's me, but 10% extra performance and 25% extra muscle mass sounds like quite a huge difference to me - "not enormous" is technically correct but also lowered my expectations to a few percentages.
[+] [-] mikeyouse|8 years ago|reply
* 1RM = 1 Repetition Maximum Strength
"The average RET-induced increase, with all measures of 1RM included, was 27kg (mean±SD; 27±22kg22 32). Notably, dietary protein supplementation augmented the increase in 1RM strength by 2.49kg (9%; figure 2; see online supplementary figure 4), which strongly suggests that the practice of RET is a far more potent stimulus for increasing muscle strength than the addition of dietary protein supplementation."
"In addition to increasing changes in muscle strength, RET alone (≥6; 13±8weeks) resulted in an increase in FFM (1.1 ± 1.2kg), an increase in fibre CSA (808±) and an increase in mid-femur CSA (52±30mm2). Dietary protein supplementation augmented the increase in FFM by 0.30kg (27%), fibre CSA by 310µm2 (38%) and mid-femur CSA by 7.2mm2 (14%). The postexercise protein dose did not affect the efficacy of protein supplementation on RET-induced changes in FFM whereas training status (positive), age (negative) and baseline protein intake (positive) did. Relative to untrained participants, resistance-trained participants have a smaller potential for muscle growth and an attenuated postexercise muscle protein turnover. As a result, we speculate that trained persons may have less ‘degrees of freedom’ to change with RET and therefore have a greater need for protein supplementation to see increases in muscle mass. Our thesis is supported by the observation of a more consistent impact of protein supplementation on gains in FFM in resistance-trained individuals than in novice trainees."
So working out regularly increases your 1-rep max lift by 27kg. Supplementing with protein can increases that max that by 2.5kg. Resistance exercise can increase your muscle mass by 1.1kg and protein can increase muscle mass further by 0.3kg. There was no difference past a protein dose of 1.6g/kg/day and supplementation mainly benefit those starting from a higher point of muscle mass and strength.
http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/bjsports/early/2018/01/18/bjspor...
[+] [-] theoh|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] matte_black|8 years ago|reply
Let me explain.
I think what most people should be doing is calisthenics. I’ve been lifting weights for over a decade, but only started calisthenics two years ago. Personally, I feel calisthenics gives you a much stronger and durable body over all compared to lifting weights. It also strengthens your joints and connective tissues, which people don’t really think about until it’s too late. Aesthetically, I also feel strong calisthenic trained bodies look much more well proportioned and hardened due to the active use of stabilizer muscles. People who have trained calisthenics for a long time are deceptively strong. They don’t look particularly huge, but they perform feats of strength that even the most professional weightlifter would struggle to do. To me, this is a sign of true mastery over one’s body.
If you’re just getting started in your exercise career, try calisthenics.
[+] [-] oh_sigh|8 years ago|reply
I agree with your point generally though that the best exercise routine(or diet) is one that you stick with and progresses you towards your goals.
[+] [-] acconrad|8 years ago|reply
I've tried calisthenics and lacks in many areas. For starters, it woefully neglects the legs. Pistol squats and bridges are not nearly as taxing as barbell squats and deadlifts, though bridges have the added benefit of working flexibility. Push ups and pull ups quickly reach a plateau with 1 arm variations, and at that point you're no longer doing calisthenic movements but training like a gymnast.
Calisthenics seem to be most effective at building strength for the core (pikes, leg raises, planks) and the shoulders (if you have the coordination to do hand stand push ups).
Barbell training should not be avoided. I've also had serious injuries, such as a broken humerus as a child, where rotator cuff and deltoid muscles atrophied to an extreme level; and those joints are now stronger than ever because I weight trained in specific movement patterns that are difficult to replicate with calisthenics. And I say this as someone who has also been lifting weights for over a decade and has competed in both powerlifting and bodybuilding.
[+] [-] r0brodz|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] milesvp|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jjeaff|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] thesmallestcat|8 years ago|reply
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27479196
> CONCLUSIONS AND RELEVANCE:
> High animal protein intake was positively associated with cardiovascular mortality and high plant protein intake was inversely associated with all-cause and cardiovascular mortality, especially among individuals with at least 1 lifestyle risk factor. Substitution of plant protein for animal protein, especially that from processed red meat, was associated with lower mortality, suggesting the importance of protein source.
[+] [-] justboxing|8 years ago|reply
Asking cos I've had a hard time finding protein dense plant based alternatives, and as a vegetarian, it's really hard to get a lot of proteins from plant-based sources without processed stuff like Vega etc.
I do eat quinoa but 1) it's very expensive and 2) you have to eat 2 or 3 cups of cooked quinoa to get like 25 gms of protein which is a lot of quinoa per day.
[+] [-] matte_black|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rdiddly|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] shdwban|8 years ago|reply
Edit: by natural I mean without using scales, going just by how I'm feeling and body is doing.
[+] [-] lemming|8 years ago|reply
That being said, since fecal losses of protein and short-chain peptides tend to smell incredibly bad one can use a 'sniff-test' after bowel movements to assess if protein is being lost in the feces and thus not taken up by either the intestines or the muscle.
Not pleasant, perhaps, but should be effective :-)
[+] [-] acconrad|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] agnivade|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pjc50|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] acconrad|8 years ago|reply
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tsTwcOb_0k
[+] [-] deskamess|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] oh_sigh|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] e9|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sjg007|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] xupybd|8 years ago|reply
After a couple of weeks you'll start adapting to that and feeling a lot better. Then you might want to join up at a gym.
I'd say start with something easy like the machines for a few months. The machines aren't the best way to lift but they're pretty hard to get wrong, come with instructions and get you used to going to the gym.
Limit your time at the gym. For me 40 mins and I'm out. If you feel like you have to be there for a long time it can impact the rest of your life and cause you to give up on it. Regular workouts are key to changing. Not one off insanely intense marathon sessions.
After 3 months or so you'll start noticing a little more energy and confidence. I'd say it's time to learn some barbell lifts. Deadlift, squat, bench press and overhead press. Get good at those over a year or so and you'll be amazed at the changes you see.
Starting strength is a great book to get you going on those lifts. If you can afford it a trainer is also a great way to start. https://athleanx.com/ is also something I've heard nothing but good things about.
Mobility is also huge, learn to stretch from day one. You'll feel amazing if you can get in 20 mins 3 times a week.
[+] [-] throwaway9980|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] at-fates-hands|8 years ago|reply
I came home from college after ending a long relationship. I was broke, depressed and quickly gaining weight. I knew I was in trouble when my Mom starting telling me I was looking "puffy" around the face. As a hockey and soccer player, this was the final straw, I knew I had to do something but was so unmotivated to do anything.
I started slow. Got a on a treadmill (you can find some for free on craiglist) and did 10 minutes a day. Then I do resistance band for about 10-15 minutes and then tried as best I could to stretch out. I started at 30 minutes, and then as I improved my diet and started to lose the weight, I increased the intensity. Yeah, I was doing 10 minutes, but I was practically sprinting by the second month. I gave up the resistance bands and started doing light free weight lifting, but doing long reps (3 sets of 20-25 reps).
My advice? Basically just do anything. Go out and walk for 15 minutes. Go run for 5 minutes every day. Go out and work in your yard, get on a bike and bike for 15 minutes. Anything that gets your blood pumping and your heart rate up is beneficial. Try as best you can to eat better. Working out is useless if you don't improve your diet.
Just start somewhere and adjust as you go. My biggest bit of advice? Listen to your body. If you're sore or doing something is painful, stop. If you're sore? Don't push it, take a few days off, switch exercises and take it easy. When you get older, it takes a LOT longer to heal and get back to working out. You don't want to pull a muscle and be sitting on your couch healing for 2 months.
[+] [-] jogjayr|8 years ago|reply
For example, if family is important to you, being strong and fit makes it easier to take care of a young family. If you're a woman I assume pregnancy goes easier if you're physically robust beforehand. Good health ensures longevity and gives you more and better quality time with your family.
If your career or work is important then you can note that being in better health puts you in a better position to achieve your professional goals - lower chances of RSI or lengthy hospital stays, easier to put in long hours without getting tired. And of course physically fit people are more attractive and, on average, attractive people do better professionally - they get paid more, are perceived as more competent etc.
If you care about the environment, becoming fitter makes it more likely you'll walk or bike instead of driving. You'll also require less healthcare in your old age, which means fewer resources are expended on you.
I could keep going - practically any personal goal could get a bit of a boost from better health.
[+] [-] keithnz|8 years ago|reply
Maybe just commit to trying a bunch of things till you find something that you like
[+] [-] e1ven|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] onewland|8 years ago|reply
Then you'll be motivated to work out on your own to save money.
[+] [-] kovek|8 years ago|reply
I think some important factors for this:
- It feels good
- I’m feeling sad and am looking to feel better
- I’m not feeling too physically tired. Last night I worked out, and this morning I worked out. I feel strong and as if I have enough energy to work out
- I am not distracted with stress about any obligations (when I am stressed/distracted, I tend to forget to do certain things or will badly time manage)
I think the main factors are that I am looking to feel better and I feel somewhat energetic because I worked out last night and today.
I have wondered how to solve this problem last month. I thought about how, through school and social norms, we learn to not react to our urge to move (and movement can bring pleasure). It’s important to react to our urge to move, to have a reflex. I might be developing that now, because as I wrote, I’m goingbecause I want to feel better.
[+] [-] mancerayder|8 years ago|reply
There's a massive technical aspect to learn that puts a more scientific spin to appeal to people like us.*
* You're on HN, right?
[+] [-] dredmorbius|8 years ago|reply
http://rosstraining.com/blog/2015/12/29/motivation-is-overra...
[+] [-] lalos|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dannyr|8 years ago|reply
I've also been doing HIIT workouts by following this guy's videos: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSYr9PbKKbL-OdIEnIvqVOw/vid...
I love that it is timed. I'm not distracted by anything unlike if I'm just doing it on my own.
[+] [-] digitalzombie|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 6t6t6t6|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] oh_sigh|8 years ago|reply
Specifically, structure your starting workouts so they are simple and achievable, and if possible can help you in other areas of your life.
[+] [-] invalidOrTaken|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] taeric|8 years ago|reply
For me, I have found if I put something such that I have to do it, it typically gets done. Just making it so that I want to...
[+] [-] ClassyJacket|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|8 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] fahayekwasright|8 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] xupybd|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mikeyouse|8 years ago|reply
http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/bjsports/early/2018/01/18/bjspor...
[+] [-] msiggy|8 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] yakitori|8 years ago|reply
My grandparents lived well into their 90s. All you have to do is eat well and try to be active from time to time.
But there is a growing weightlifting movement with a healthy marketing budget...
[+] [-] mhb|8 years ago|reply
Research by McMaster University’s Dr. Stuart Phillips and others has found that if you eat more than 20 to 30 grams of protein at a time, you don’t get any further anabolic boost. Any extra protein is simply burned for energy; unlike carbohydrate or fat, you can’t save it for later.
https://www.runnersworld.com/sweat-science/why-and-when-you-...
[+] [-] rshannon3|8 years ago|reply
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJpdPYedWjc
[+] [-] lemming|8 years ago|reply