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Merrell Trail Glove Failures and Minimal Running in a Communist Shoe

40 points| joshrotenberg | 8 years ago |blatanterror.com

59 comments

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oblib|8 years ago

I really liked the Merrill hikers I started buying about 10 years ago. I wore out about 4 pair over the course of about 6 years. Then they quit making them and the next time I tried to buy a pair of Merrill's none of them were near as good.

There were a lot of discussions on a backpacking forum I belong to about this and the universal consensus came to be that Merrill was no longer a shoe we could recommend. As they got more popular their quality receded and I and others really mourned that.

Before we started buying Merrill's we bought aftermarket insoles for our shoes and many of us are back to doing that again. But you can do that with a lot less costly shoe and Merrill offers no real advantages right now over some of those cheaper shoes.

Selling a cheaper made shoe for the same premium price may have increased their profits a bit in the short term, but that cost them a huge amount of good will.

You cannot fool hikers or runners with inferior quality and they don't care what your logo looks like. Reputations rise and fall with them and Merrill has lost theirs.

ignoramceisblis|8 years ago

Agreed. I've had one of their Trail Gloves and while I loved what they did with the design and fit of it, the quality was very lackluster. Holes started to appear within 2 months of very light use, and it had only gotten worse after that. Shame.

abakker|8 years ago

second to that. I had many pairs of Merrills. The last pair lasted ~6 months, and the interior fabric had torn apart and the padding was entirely ruined. I don't even exercise that hard, and I don't pronate. the sole wear was fine, but the uppers were ruined.

kolbe|8 years ago

This is the trend with all Merrell's as far as I can tell. I had the same experience with the Trail Gloves as OP had. Which sucks, because Merrell could have been a good business for decades if they hadn't moved to the model of cutting costs and fucking customers to exploit brand loyalty biases.

aidenn0|8 years ago

You can't fool hikers and runners for very long, but you can fool people who want to be hikers and runners, since the shoes mostly sit in the closet.

Infernal|8 years ago

Have you found the "new" Merrill?

voicedYoda|8 years ago

I run relatively regularly these days. My journey of running started with a marathon. I went from nothing to marathon in 6 months, with lots of training, weight loss (healthily because I still love to eat), and stamina increases. But after the marathon, it took over a week to walk normally again. Long runs sucked, and I really began to hate running. Running shoes were killing me, and I hated the idea that the shoe was there to help cushion the foot fall.

Then a friend encouraged me to try vibrams. And suddenly I fell in love with running again. I have huge calves, and these helped tone them a lot more, but now my strike is mid-front, and it’s comfortable to go 4-6 miles (though I struggle keeping pace with my dog).

We have a wonderful suspension system built into our bodies, but it only works correctly when applied correctly. We do not strike the ground the same when running as when walking. And Vibrams taught me quickly to strike differently (especially if I wanted to avoid really sore heels). The springiness of running on our feet transfers to our ankels to our knees to our hips to our back. I’m not an expert, and I know others can run with a rear strike, but for my body shape and what I’ve learned to run with, the front strike was important and I have Vibram FF to thank for it!

mlevental|8 years ago

i love low drop shoes for normal day to day wear - i hate feeling padding under my feet (original chucks) but i wore vibrams for 6 months and got to about 6 miles on em before i gave up out of pain on my tarsals and metatarsals. if you're running on cement (which most of us are) you just can't do it in vibrams. i still toe strike but in regular trainers.

michaeljbishop|8 years ago

My friend, the company you need to go visit is Vivobarefoot. They are not as cheap as your Chinese shoe, but they are the wide-toebox, no-support, tough-as-nails-soles that you have been looking for.

  https://www.vivobarefoot.com/
Because of them, every shoe that I wear for every occasion can be minimal and I get to feel everything under my feet everywhere I go. I even have fancy black leather shoes for special occasions.

They are wonderful.

kenm47|8 years ago

Oh hai, there is an HN Post... who knew. I'm the writer here... I have worn VivoBarefoot shoes. They were fine nothing more. I wasn't impressed enough to buy another pair but it's been 5 years maybe.

joncrane|8 years ago

Those prices are astronomical, though. $240 for a pair of shoes, when according to the author of the original article, something that serves the purpose is available for a dollar a pair?!

JofArnold|8 years ago

I’ve had the same two pairs of Vivo Barefoots for 10 years now (since I worked with Galahad briefly at their tiny Bermondsey studio). They are excellent shoes and last a long time. The current off/road ones (which look a bit like climbing shoes) are superb.

noelwelsh|8 years ago

Seconding Vivo. I've been wearing them for about a decade, from the time they were called Worn Again. Love their shoes.

biophetik|8 years ago

I'm surprised that the author went with the vapor glove over another version of the trail glove.

I was another one of those that loved the first version. Ran them through multiple spartan races, half marathons, etc. They lasted a good 2 years before the sole really started to wear through. I remember looking for the next version during that time and seeing they were not continuing with the line. But they must have changed their mind, because they eventually came out with the trail glove 2.

I'm currently running with v2, with about a year of minimal wear on them, although it's mostly been weight training and 4 mile runs. They also seem to be continuing the line as it's now on v4. It would be interesting to see if there is any consistency on wear through the versions.

Eric_WVGG|8 years ago

Just a few days ago I was remembering a pair of these that I picked up back in the eighties for… a school play? I liked them so much that I wore them until they disintegrated.

We picked them up from a martial arts store (this was during the Karate Kid fad), and sure enough, a quick search for "kung fu shoes" on Amazon is all it took, $10. I'm going to grab a pair as soon as spring rolls around…

cag_ii|8 years ago

Cool! After reading this article I clearly remember buying "Kung-fu shoes" in DTLA/Chinatown as a kid, they were a couple of bucks a piece and probably my favorite shoes at the time.

I also clearly remember they did very little to protect your feet from the black asphalt playground heat in the middle of summer, lol.

gumby|8 years ago

I'm not a runner but I am a hiker and what I learned was to buy resoleable boots (obviously this opinion is of no value to runners).

There are lots of decent midpriced boots but all have the soles glued on. Typically they don't even last 1000 miles before they wear out and need replacement. The problem is that by then they have adjusted properly to my foot!

Now i've had the same boot for almost a decade, having been resoled four times. (in that time my dog has gone through about 10 sets of boots)

danielvf|8 years ago

Brand recommendations? The last three half hight hiking shoes I’ve bought have fallen apart in months...

kolbe|8 years ago

I've been a minimalist runner for about a decade at this point. Merrell disappointed me in this exact same way. They also used to have a zero drop gore-tex shoe for running in snow that they discontinued.

My best solution has been to turn towards running sandals. I've done a lot of barefoot (foot to ground) running, but the sandals provide enough protection from hot pavement and rocky trails. Also, the main reason I've had to throw away my minimalist shoes is due to how bad they smell after a while. That's not a problem with sandals.

There's a great company based out of Santa Cruz called Shamma. Leather straps and made to order for $70. I get a few thousand miles out of them. I've done hundred mile stretches on the PCT in them and even ran a 50 mile race in them. And I swear to god I do not work for the company. https://shammasandals.com/

kenm47|8 years ago

A couple of people have asked me separately about where I found these on Taobao. Here is a link: https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.135.17cc5590...

I'm not sure it was this particular buyer I bought from, but they are approximately this. Beware, it's pretty difficult (read near-impossible) to buy off taobao without chinese because the seller will expect that you chat with them about the purchase before they ship.

rpenm|8 years ago

The author is incorrect - his shoe is a Vapor Glove 2, not a 3 - as evidenced by the design and clearly visibly label.

And the Vapor Glove is definitely not a follow-up to the Trail Glove, it's a different shoe. Merrell still makes Trail Gloves (though yes, the design has changed both for better and worse). I'm currently considering the Trail Glove 4.

pasbesoin|8 years ago

Last year, I bought two pairs of Merrell boots: A "normal" pair and a winter pair (bit more insulation, and some extra-grippy bits on the soles).

Unfortunately, trial in the store was not long enough and/or was too distracting, but on both -- different models -- the "box" of the left boot is narrow than that of right. And over the course of a few hours and/or more extensive walking, this causes my left foot to hurt from the constraint. Meanwhile, my right foot is perfectly cosy and fine.

This is not something I have experienced regularly with other brands. For some reason, that season, Merrell seemed to be making lefts smaller/narrower.

(Unfortunately, I ended up severely ill for a couple of months, two days after purchase. By the time I was well enough to consider returning them, I was too embarrassed at the time passed. And I'd gotten them on quite a good combination of sales, meaning that the store probably would have had to eat their cost, if they took them back, due to model/yearly revisions.)

P.S. I'm returning to just buying "decent" stuff from LL Bean. I seem to find less size variation in their products (e.g. jeans). And even "premium" products too often seem to be a crap shoot, these days.

Although I do love and baby my Asolo's, bought from an expert who spent an hour fitting me. Over a decade ago, now. But I'm not going to wear them out on daily tromps for exercise on our local gravel trail.

P.P.S. I also had a pair of those Chinese slippers -- looked exactly like the ones pictured. Bought somewhere in San Francisco's Chinatown. They were ok, certainly for the price, although I wouldn't run in them. Had them until I took them to a friend's, because they were obsessive about people removing their shoes. Never got them back. You can't trust your friends, either. ;-)

frabbit|8 years ago

I just wish I could get shoes wide enough for my feet. Anything wide enough is too long (a good 4cm of wasted space at the front). I have tried supposedly extra wide shoes like Lems, but the only thing that is comfortable is either the Vibram Five Fingers or Crocs (terrible for running) or some Birkenstocks (just).

DanCarvajal|8 years ago

Take a look at Altra shows, their signature feature is a very wide toe box. They make a trail running shoe that's currently very popular with distance hikers.

noelwelsh|8 years ago

I have very wide feet. In the UK shoe measurement system a width of H is the widest. One of my feet is H, and the other one is wider. I wear Vivobarefoot https://www.vivobarefoot.com/ and they actually fit. I'm no longer buying shoes 1-2 sizes too big to fit my feet. I'm currently wearing Gobi for every day wear, and exercise in a Stealth II. All of these needed a bit of time to break in. When I tried on a Primus they were a bit tight all around, so probably best to avoid that style (or try them on yourself).

rhinoceraptor|8 years ago

I think most specialty "wide" shoes are only normal wide, that is they're the correct width for people who don't have particularly wide feet.

I have a pair of Otz boots that I love, they look like Timberlands but have a really nice wide toe box, and a zero drop vibram lugged sole. And of course, they don't make them any more. I would have bought 3 or 4 pairs if I knew that to last me a while.

It's even worse with bike shoes, and I don't even have wide feet. I just want a pair of mountain bike shoes that don't make my toes hurt.

cafard|8 years ago

New Balance used to make very wide shoes, but not needing anything that wide, I don't know whether they still do.

pascalxus|8 years ago

I'm on the opposite spectrum. I find that the vast majority of shoes are too wide for me. Merrils, Vibram and their ilk are the only ones that seem to be about right.

gowld|8 years ago

If you haven't checked your arches, you might find that you need more arch support, not wider shoes. Arch support prevents your feet from splaying out.

frabbit|8 years ago

Thanks for all of the helpful suggestions below. Am going to be investigating them. Sorry to OP if I hijacked this at all.

meritt|8 years ago

This doesn't excuse Merrell's quality control at all but for a bit of consumer protection: If you purchase your shoes at REI and they fall apart like this, they'll happily provide you with a refund or replacement.

namiller2|8 years ago

I had a pair of Trail Gloves pictured and they were great. Every pair of Merrells I've bought since have been disappointing. Either wore down too fast or were uncomfortable.

sdenton4|8 years ago

I'm kinda confused. I'm wearing a pair of trail gloves right now, and Merrel has continued to make them, incrementing a version number along the way... I wear them every day, and have been rocking them for my last four pairs of shoes, using 'em til the sole wears through.

sorenjan|8 years ago

I remember when the Trail Gloves came out, Merrell seemed to be really into minimal shoes. They even had what looked like dress shoes but with a thin and flexible sole, like the Trail Glove. Last time I looked for new shoes Merrell was pretty disappointing, it seems like the minimal shoes didn't sell well enough.

giarc|8 years ago

Seems like Toms are pretty similar to the Chinese shows mentioned in the article.

gowld|8 years ago

Toms sells $10 shoes for $40, though.

kevin_thibedeau|8 years ago

He should just coat the soles in ShoeGoo and patch as necessary. Same for the high wear areas of the cloth.

joncrane|8 years ago

I'd love a link to where the author found those 布鞋 on TaoBao. that seems like the best bet.