This bgr article has unfortunately completely misunderstood what the news is.
> Amazon may be a one stop shop for home goods, electronics, furniture, clothing and more, but in order to actually get items to your home, the e-commerce giant has to depend on delivery services like FedEx and UPS
No, amazon already has its own logistics company that operates in many locations. The news is that it is now going to offer this to as a service to ship other companies' packages.
From the linked WSJ article:
> Dubbed “Shipping with Amazon,” or SWA, the new service will entail the tech giant picking up packages from businesses and shipping them to consumers, according to people familiar with the matter.
> Dubbed “Shipping with Amazon” (SWA), the service will pick up packages from businesses and deliver them to customers.
> Sources claims that Amazon will begin rolling out the service in Los Angeles within the next few weeks in Los Angeles with third-party sellers that do business through Amazon.com.
Their delivery service is frustrating. It seems to be the norm, and accepted, that drivers will mark packages delivered a full 24 hours ahead of time and do the delivery the next day, presumably to meet delivery requirements.
I've also had these individuals basically solicit me for a tip, recounting how they're underpaid, etc.
I really don't like this move to try to uber-ify package delivery. UPS/FedEx have their bad moments, but at least I don't have to worry that the employees are under too much duress to deliver, or are on the edge of unreasonably compensated.
I've been in Seattle for around a month and can completely agree with this. One time half of an order went to a wrong apartment, and the other half came the next day. UPS and related have access codes to get into the building where Amazon doesn't. Having free same day delivery is a life-changer, but Amazon needs to improve a lot.
just curious: how do they ask for a tip? i honestly can't imagine any scenario where it's reasonable for a delivery personnel to ask for a tip, so i imagine it must be super awkward to even bring it up.
I have had Amazon folks in my neighborhood: leave packages on the sidewalk, throw packages over fences and ask me for a tip.
These are antecdotal, but if Amazon wants to catch up to a company like UPS, they have a ton of ground to make up. Delivering packages is really hard work, believe it or not, and underpaying someone to do it isn't going to bring about the results you're after, guaranteed.
Was coming here to post the same thing. The vans in my area are unbranded, the employees unprofessional and the delivery is sloppy. "Soft" expenses such as uniforms and paint make a difference on perception, as would better supervision and training.
I also wonder, in the drivers' defense, if the delivery schedule is unrealistic. I can better understand lobbing a box on the lawn if you're 10 deliveries behind.
Ditto. I think Amazon is used to having complete supervision of people in their warehouses, where any slip-ups are found and fixed quickly before a package goes out. The delivery driver, on the other hand, needs a certain level of street smarts and people skills and has to be able to function with minimal supervision. That kind of person isn't going to work for you for minimum wage.
When I order from Amazon and see that they're going to try to ship it on their own, I just groan. It's going to be painful for sure.
Sounds pretty similar to my two experiences with Amazon Fresh. First guy shows up and goes into a long story about how his leg is broken and how terrible his day is going. Not to be unsympathetic, but clearly this guy was just trying to solicit a tip, which I was planning on giving anyway, but decided against after the experience. Second time around I just pick the "leave it at the door" option, and they dropped it off at the wrong building, and when I found it, it was also the wrong order.
Same. I've personally ran into amazon delivery people lost in our apartment complex, badged them into the building, and walked them to where they should drop off packages. I'd feel like it was a one time thing, but it seems like every week they've got a new guy delivering here, and its a tossup whether they're properly trained to know what to do. Meanwhile, the same USPS guy has been coming here for 3 years.
It got so bad with the AMZN delivery company that we finally requested they ship to us with anyone but them.
- Delivery dates constantly getting pushed back 1-3 days (why even have prime?).
- Delivery notifications for packages that were never delivered, and not even attempted to be. Someone is almost always home and we have a security camera on all approaches to the house, they don’t even try.
- Completely lost packages.
- Our stuff getting delivered to the neighbors, and vice versa.
Amazon’s delivery has been an unmitigated disaster in our neighborhood.
This will be no change for me. Where I’m at UPS and FedEx just toss the package at the porch/doors and then bolt. Very unprofessional and NEVER once ring the door bell. I don’t expect them to wait, but FFS how much extra work is it to hit the damn doorbell?
Seems like a lot of room to innovate with technology, and I bet Amazon is banking on that.
This reminds me a lot of Amazon marketplace, where they took the core service (Amazon e-commerce) and opened it up to others without holding inventory. They can use other people’s orders to gain even more scale and drive costs down lower in the distribution network, commoditizing the complement layer (delivery, in this case UPS and FedEx).
Just this week, I've once again found Prime -- on multiple packages -- to apparently mean "when we get around to it".
I'm going to finally watch "The Wire" and a few other of their streaming offers that have been on my todo list, and then consider not renewing. (And... I'm wondering how onerous the process of effectively disconnecting them from my credit card will be.)
IMO this is very bad news for the economy. Amazon will do very well as a delivery service, because unlike competition they have underpaid and overworked deliverers. They basically uberified delivery. The costs are much lower, but delivery jobs will shift to low paid, no benefits 'gigs'. Amazon is more and more scary as it monopolizes more and more businesses.
Based on the posts on HN, one of two things will happen:
1. Enough people will say "screw Prime" and Amazon will start trying to figure out how to fix that.
2. The turnover for delivery employees will be so bad, that it will cost Amazon more than if they just paid them better and had better working conditions.
Maybe this is bad for certain workers, but there's no reason to believe it's bad for the economy. The money saved on paying delivery drivers will be allocated elsewhere.
What specifically makes them underpaid? Are their wages getting stolen or illegally withheld? Is there some market force that is coercing lower wages than they would get otherwise?
It's interesting reading the comments in this thread as they seem to be very much from a US standpoint. Here in the UK it's rare for Amazon packages to be sent by anything other than Amazon Logistics. There are issues with misdelivery or leaving things in plain view, but the same is true of their competitors such as Yodel. The difference with Amazon is that even if they've taken a photo of a safe place as 'proof' of delivery for an item they don't argue if you report it as undelivered.
Prime gives you free next day delivery, including outside of business hours and weekends, and sometimes free same day depending on their logistics. Overall, buying from Amazon and having them deliver it is a better than average experience.
Logistics in the UK are quite different than in the US. In fact, I always thought the UK was a bit more innovative when it came to shipping. For example, shipping lockers are still quite new in the US. In fact, I think Amazon owns the only lockers I've ever seen in person.
As a side note, I will also apologize if you've ever used Yodel, since a small part of my development efforts went towards their early logistics systems.
It's possible that part of the difference is that here in the UK, the competitors are often companies like Yodel that had already taken the same gig-economy, overworked subcontractors with unrealistic targets approach that Amazon have.
According to the Yodel driver who delivers to us, they are paid a rather small per-parcel fee and expected to make an almost unreasonable number of deliveries in a certain timeframe. They already have the same factors that are likely responsible for pushing the quality of Amazon's service down.
Their service with their existing delivery service (Amazon Logistics) has been TERRIBLE thus far. Lazy drivers leaving packages in clear sight in the middle of the driveway, unreliable delivery estimates, etc.
This last Christmas season, everything shipped from Amazon via UPS / FedEx arrived on time as expected. Everything Amazon shipped via their AMZN Logistics / USPS was late, 50% arrived after Christmas even when ordered on December 14.
We've stopped shopping at Amazon in favor of other vendors who let you pick your shipping service. Their customer service just keeps collecting information, but it's not getting any better.
> If SWA is cheaper than FedEx or UPS, you can bet that customers will opt for Amazon’s service instead.
You get what you pay for... I'll avoid Amazon until I can pick my own RELIABLE carrier. UPS & FedEx have shown they are reliable.
I've noticed that Amazon has been silently bumping shipping estimates for my prime account. Ordered something on Monday morning that said it would arrive Wednesday. I get to Wednesday and didn't notice a shipping notification - I look at my amazon account and my formerly "guaranteed" delivery date now just said expected by February 7-8. Wednesday "or" Thursday.
On the other hand, I ordered something from bestbuy with their normal free shipping and it showed up on my doorstep literally the day after.
After fighting with chat/phone support for months, I finally emailed jeff@amazon with a lengthy message recounting my recent shipping experiences with USPS. They removed USPS as an option from my account. Everything now comes from UPS/FedEx.
It may be worth noting that I spend roughly one order of magnitude more than their average prime customer annually (work equipment).
+1 I really wish we could choose our carrier, and reward those that do a good job. I used to have a way better experience with UPS then Fedex, the difference was huge because I would have to go to the Fedex warehouse to pick up my package (long story, Fedex was pretty bad in my area). But I have no control over who delivers it.
The Amazon delivery guys are way worse. I never know when something is coming, even if it says out for delivery I might not get it for days. Every time I need something for a trip that I buy 3 business days early, with 2 day prime shipping, I don't get it before I have to leave.
I gave up trying to complain, you could review the seller, but not the delivery service. Hopefully they have changed that. I used to only shop on Amazon for pretty much everything. Now I decide if I should get it from a local store instead. When I need something that is time sensitive, I definitely get it from a brick and mortar store.
The worst is that while UPS will leave the packages on my doorstep (and knock on the door), the off-brand Amazon delivery guys tend to leave the package in front of my garage door because it is closer. One of these days I'm going to drive over something expensive by accident.
FedEx, USPS, UPS - they all manage to get into my building and deliver my packages. Sometimes they even go all the way up to my door.
I've asked Amazon to stop trying to send packages via their couriers, because they don't even seem to bother trying to get in before giving up and leaving.
I don't know if it's a laziness thing or if they're under some sort of horrible time crunch to deliver every single one of these packages (not sure if they get a bonus for more packages delivered or something), but Amazon couriers REALLY suck.
So far my experience with Amazon's delivery service has been pretty negative. Expensive packages going missing, packages delivered to the wrong address, attempts to deliver packages to business addresses outside of business hours etc.
Personally I would prefer the option of Amazon allowing me to pick the carrier I want to use rather than simply go with lowest cost. In most cases I value reliability over lower cost.
I ordered a graphics card from Newegg back in November and it got shipped via FedEx. What was really nice with Fedex was that I could have it shipped to my house, or pick from any FedEx or several Walgreens locations for pickup.
Since it was an expensive package I chose to pick it up from a Walgreens near my office.
Amazon's shipping is faster, but Newegg/FedEx shipping was a much better experience. It told me who was shipping the package up front and let me choose from several delivery options via that carrier.
I would rather to choose as well since I live directly beside carrier X pickup point, but they always use carrier Y which means driving across the city to get it.
The Amazon delivery drivers always harass you as well, phoning multiple times and totally perplexed you have a job and can't be home to pick something up demanding a time for redelivery on the spot which means I have to stop what I'm doing and screw around with my schedule. Either let me enter precise time windows for delivery, get pickup spots or let me choose the shipping company which is the easiest, I don't care about the extra $5 if it means I'm not spending half my Saturday in traffic to get a book.
Just to chime in here about how terrible and unaccountable the delivery service is -
I bought a part for my bike that on first attempt went to the wrong intermediate routing center. They marked it as undeliverable instead of just rerouting it. I had to get a refund and was promised a $25 credit to my next purchase. That didn’t happen.
I ordered the same item again. It was lost in transit. Got refund with no credit.
It took the third try to get my item. I selected same day delivery on the previous two but not the third.
I live in San Francisco and the item was in their Fremont fullfillment center. So....?
Under/Over 10 years after Bezos retires, does Amazon end up looking like GE does now? This spree of Amazon getting into markets that are already at near-perfect competition levels is a bit worrying. How many people could reasonably handle a business this complicated, with so many competitors?
I order something or other from Amazon every couple weeks and, living in Chicago, have often gotten it via Amazon delivery for a year or two now. It just seems like one problem after another: not actually dropping the package off, hiding the package in a crevice between buildings, very often not arriving when quoted, rude calls from drivers because I'm not at home. Add to this problems with worker pay and treatment, and I'll stick to UPS whenever possible.
I used to work for a company that did logistic software, and Amazon creating their own last-mile service was something they predicted years ago.
It's a nightmare for them because it will ultimately take business away from every carrier, and more sellers will ultimately want to use Amazon's service over time. The margins in shipping are already razor-thin, and Amazon would easily be able to take the loss to choke other competitors out.
Amazon logistics has a habit around here of delivering packages at 11pm to make the delivery day requirements...I can't help but feel it's yet another huge organization wringing out their employees because hey, employees are expendable.
..to complete with FedEX, UPS and USPS, with later one being the worst of them all. Amazon has been stockpiling used cargo aircrafts for some time now in Seattle (hint..hint) and creating a delivery service at grass root city level makes much more sense for them because 1) you are not relying to ship goods from your regional warehouses often 2) this helps you get tax benefits by bringing in delivery jobs locally 3) expedited shipping of common use products such toilet papers, toothpaste etc that do not need to get shipped from regional warehouses. A lot of time your late delivery complaint just ended up you getting a $5 credit or a month waiver from your annual prime membership because Amazon can't hold USPS delivery guy accountable as it can to one of its own.
Amzn shipping has changed for the much worse in the last two years, guessing to prioritize prime customers?
We used to get our items shipped promptly and they would arrive slowly but surely in about a week. You would see progress at e.g. ups/usps.
Now they sit on your order for a week then send it and it arrives in two weeks. If you call and complain they will two-day ship it. Much less progress is visible as well, leaving you to wonder the whole time and bother support.
How can that make any financial sense? How can sitting on it for a week make sense? They still have to deliver all the packages, now they’re a week behind.
Have done business with them for ~20 years and considering another merchant where treated with respect.
I hope they replace their Prime delivery routes first. UPS and FedEx are decent. Amazon's Prime delivery in NYC is awful. They toss packages near doors. Report attempting delivery and that no one was home without bothering to even show up at the building. Even the ones that actually deliver will hit every doorbell of a multi-unit apartment building until someone buzzes them and then open the front door and toss the box into the front hallway.
We've been having problem with packages stink with cigarette smell to the point that we have to open the packages outside of the house and the wash our hands.
When Amazon completely dominates the online market and all its aspects, wouldn't it be in a GREAT position to charge customers much much more? Would it still need to be "competitive"?
On the plus side you get a picture of the package at your door (or whatever) so you know they left it.
But it doesn’t integrate well with my delivery tracking app. They don’t know to drop packages at the package desk at my apartment complex instead of leaving them on my doorstep to be stolen.
[+] [-] resoluteteeth|8 years ago|reply
> Amazon may be a one stop shop for home goods, electronics, furniture, clothing and more, but in order to actually get items to your home, the e-commerce giant has to depend on delivery services like FedEx and UPS
No, amazon already has its own logistics company that operates in many locations. The news is that it is now going to offer this to as a service to ship other companies' packages.
From the linked WSJ article:
> Dubbed “Shipping with Amazon,” or SWA, the new service will entail the tech giant picking up packages from businesses and shipping them to consumers, according to people familiar with the matter.
[+] [-] sib|8 years ago|reply
> Dubbed “Shipping with Amazon” (SWA), the service will pick up packages from businesses and deliver them to customers.
> Sources claims that Amazon will begin rolling out the service in Los Angeles within the next few weeks in Los Angeles with third-party sellers that do business through Amazon.com.
Seems like the same news.
[+] [-] ironix|8 years ago|reply
I've also had these individuals basically solicit me for a tip, recounting how they're underpaid, etc.
I really don't like this move to try to uber-ify package delivery. UPS/FedEx have their bad moments, but at least I don't have to worry that the employees are under too much duress to deliver, or are on the edge of unreasonably compensated.
[+] [-] NickGerleman|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] twblalock|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] protopeer|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hyperbovine|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] BlytheSchuma|8 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] altotrees|8 years ago|reply
These are antecdotal, but if Amazon wants to catch up to a company like UPS, they have a ton of ground to make up. Delivering packages is really hard work, believe it or not, and underpaying someone to do it isn't going to bring about the results you're after, guaranteed.
[+] [-] stuart78|8 years ago|reply
I also wonder, in the drivers' defense, if the delivery schedule is unrealistic. I can better understand lobbing a box on the lawn if you're 10 deliveries behind.
[+] [-] joncp|8 years ago|reply
When I order from Amazon and see that they're going to try to ship it on their own, I just groan. It's going to be painful for sure.
[+] [-] anderskev|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 013a|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] manyxcxi|8 years ago|reply
- Delivery dates constantly getting pushed back 1-3 days (why even have prime?).
- Delivery notifications for packages that were never delivered, and not even attempted to be. Someone is almost always home and we have a security camera on all approaches to the house, they don’t even try.
- Completely lost packages.
- Our stuff getting delivered to the neighbors, and vice versa.
Amazon’s delivery has been an unmitigated disaster in our neighborhood.
[+] [-] bigtunacan|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] stevedc3|8 years ago|reply
This reminds me a lot of Amazon marketplace, where they took the core service (Amazon e-commerce) and opened it up to others without holding inventory. They can use other people’s orders to gain even more scale and drive costs down lower in the distribution network, commoditizing the complement layer (delivery, in this case UPS and FedEx).
[+] [-] pasbesoin|8 years ago|reply
I'm going to finally watch "The Wire" and a few other of their streaming offers that have been on my todo list, and then consider not renewing. (And... I'm wondering how onerous the process of effectively disconnecting them from my credit card will be.)
[+] [-] jacek|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] philfrasty|8 years ago|reply
This is a pretty accurate general description of the delivery industry per se, not Amazon specific.
[+] [-] refurb|8 years ago|reply
1. Enough people will say "screw Prime" and Amazon will start trying to figure out how to fix that.
2. The turnover for delivery employees will be so bad, that it will cost Amazon more than if they just paid them better and had better working conditions.
[+] [-] seizethecheese|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lolsal|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] zerotolerance|8 years ago|reply
Not sure how increasing competition in any space creates a monopoly.
[+] [-] MatthewWilkes|8 years ago|reply
Prime gives you free next day delivery, including outside of business hours and weekends, and sometimes free same day depending on their logistics. Overall, buying from Amazon and having them deliver it is a better than average experience.
[+] [-] beckler|8 years ago|reply
As a side note, I will also apologize if you've ever used Yodel, since a small part of my development efforts went towards their early logistics systems.
[+] [-] makomk|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] stordoff|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] euyyn|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] swamplander|8 years ago|reply
This last Christmas season, everything shipped from Amazon via UPS / FedEx arrived on time as expected. Everything Amazon shipped via their AMZN Logistics / USPS was late, 50% arrived after Christmas even when ordered on December 14.
We've stopped shopping at Amazon in favor of other vendors who let you pick your shipping service. Their customer service just keeps collecting information, but it's not getting any better.
> If SWA is cheaper than FedEx or UPS, you can bet that customers will opt for Amazon’s service instead.
You get what you pay for... I'll avoid Amazon until I can pick my own RELIABLE carrier. UPS & FedEx have shown they are reliable.
[+] [-] dang|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jclardy|8 years ago|reply
On the other hand, I ordered something from bestbuy with their normal free shipping and it showed up on my doorstep literally the day after.
[+] [-] leesalminen|8 years ago|reply
It may be worth noting that I spend roughly one order of magnitude more than their average prime customer annually (work equipment).
[+] [-] phyller|8 years ago|reply
The Amazon delivery guys are way worse. I never know when something is coming, even if it says out for delivery I might not get it for days. Every time I need something for a trip that I buy 3 business days early, with 2 day prime shipping, I don't get it before I have to leave.
I gave up trying to complain, you could review the seller, but not the delivery service. Hopefully they have changed that. I used to only shop on Amazon for pretty much everything. Now I decide if I should get it from a local store instead. When I need something that is time sensitive, I definitely get it from a brick and mortar store.
The worst is that while UPS will leave the packages on my doorstep (and knock on the door), the off-brand Amazon delivery guys tend to leave the package in front of my garage door because it is closer. One of these days I'm going to drive over something expensive by accident.
[+] [-] BlackjackCF|8 years ago|reply
FedEx, USPS, UPS - they all manage to get into my building and deliver my packages. Sometimes they even go all the way up to my door.
I've asked Amazon to stop trying to send packages via their couriers, because they don't even seem to bother trying to get in before giving up and leaving.
I don't know if it's a laziness thing or if they're under some sort of horrible time crunch to deliver every single one of these packages (not sure if they get a bonus for more packages delivered or something), but Amazon couriers REALLY suck.
[+] [-] spiralpolitik|8 years ago|reply
Personally I would prefer the option of Amazon allowing me to pick the carrier I want to use rather than simply go with lowest cost. In most cases I value reliability over lower cost.
[+] [-] pythonaut_16|8 years ago|reply
Since it was an expensive package I chose to pick it up from a Walgreens near my office.
Amazon's shipping is faster, but Newegg/FedEx shipping was a much better experience. It told me who was shipping the package up front and let me choose from several delivery options via that carrier.
[+] [-] hackermailman|8 years ago|reply
The Amazon delivery drivers always harass you as well, phoning multiple times and totally perplexed you have a job and can't be home to pick something up demanding a time for redelivery on the spot which means I have to stop what I'm doing and screw around with my schedule. Either let me enter precise time windows for delivery, get pickup spots or let me choose the shipping company which is the easiest, I don't care about the extra $5 if it means I'm not spending half my Saturday in traffic to get a book.
[+] [-] caffed|8 years ago|reply
I bought a part for my bike that on first attempt went to the wrong intermediate routing center. They marked it as undeliverable instead of just rerouting it. I had to get a refund and was promised a $25 credit to my next purchase. That didn’t happen.
I ordered the same item again. It was lost in transit. Got refund with no credit.
It took the third try to get my item. I selected same day delivery on the previous two but not the third.
I live in San Francisco and the item was in their Fremont fullfillment center. So....?
[+] [-] wonder_bread|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] arstin|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] beckler|8 years ago|reply
It's a nightmare for them because it will ultimately take business away from every carrier, and more sellers will ultimately want to use Amazon's service over time. The margins in shipping are already razor-thin, and Amazon would easily be able to take the loss to choke other competitors out.
[+] [-] efsavage|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Damogran6|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] CodeSheikh|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mixmastamyk|8 years ago|reply
We used to get our items shipped promptly and they would arrive slowly but surely in about a week. You would see progress at e.g. ups/usps.
Now they sit on your order for a week then send it and it arrives in two weeks. If you call and complain they will two-day ship it. Much less progress is visible as well, leaving you to wonder the whole time and bother support.
How can that make any financial sense? How can sitting on it for a week make sense? They still have to deliver all the packages, now they’re a week behind.
Have done business with them for ~20 years and considering another merchant where treated with respect.
[+] [-] JohnTHaller|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sgolestane|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] drukenemo|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] MBCook|8 years ago|reply
On the plus side you get a picture of the package at your door (or whatever) so you know they left it.
But it doesn’t integrate well with my delivery tracking app. They don’t know to drop packages at the package desk at my apartment complex instead of leaving them on my doorstep to be stolen.
Interesting to see them go more vertical though.
[+] [-] stinky613|8 years ago|reply
I think I saw one person who said he/she hadn't had any specifically bad experiences with AMZL, but that most of his/her deliveries are UPS anyway.
The phrase "piss-poor" comes to mind.