Discussing a rideshare worker's take-home pay as "profit" really accepts the framing of the company. Yes it's technically true that each driver is an independent contractor ("Small Business Owner"), but this designation is a farce without the ability to set pricing. The take-home pay isn't profit in practice, it's wages less unreimbursed expenses.
Let’s say I’m a dry wall contractor. A general contractor comes along and offers me $20k for a job. I say “$25k?” and he says, “No, $20k.”
If I take the job I am not magically transformed into an employee of his, simply because I lacked the bargaining power to negotiate the rate.
The reason I am still a contractor is that I have absolute control over whether to agree to do that job at that price.
There are obviously lots of factors that are considered in the employee/contractor analysis. I just don’t feel that “ability to negotiate rate” is a particularly important one when “absolute ability to refuse fare” is in the picture.
It's important to not use the IRS Mileage Rate to calculate real cost. (The linked study does not.) The IRS rate is designed for the worst case scenario for the purpose of tax filing (coz you don't want to penalize someone who has to drive a F-150 in a high-gas-price state in a year where gas price spikes to $5/gallon). Even if we don't consider the fact that the cost of vehicle depreciation, maintenance and insurance is an "almost-fixed" or marginal cost because you are going to own the vehicle and pay for the insurance any way, and let's be generous about estimating the cost here:
At IRS rate of $0.54 a mile, let's say we buy a Prius (which is the most popular car used for ridesharing), for $23,000, and drive it for 100,000 miles and throw it away.
At IRS rate, that's a cost of $54,000.
Gas cost is about $8,000 (50MPG [1], $4/gallon). Insurance $1500 x 5 years ($1200 base insurance + $300 extra for rideshare add-on [2]). That still leaves us $15,500 (28.7% of estimated cost) to cover repair deductible etc. That's almost enough to buy another Prius.
Edits: I mistakenly said the study used IRS Mileage Rate. It does not.
The paper actually uses a $0.30/mile figure. "A Median driver generates $0.59 per mile of driving, and incurs costs of $0.30 per mile."
The paper actually seems to be trying to make the point that Uber drivers are gaming the tax system because their actual costs are lower than the IRS allowance.
$0.30 seems like a fairly reasonable number and it also matches up well with renting a car that's intended to be driven for a week like this and just buying gas for it. (There's also some cost associated with deadheading to the next pickup.)
The $0.59/mile revenue does seem a bit low. UberX or Lyft would seem to typically have pricing in the neighborhood of $1.00 to $1.50 per mile of which about 75% goes to the driver. So $1/mile would seem likely to be a better revenue number in which case the net is more like $0.70/mile and I would have to believe most drivers, even in a larger city, are driving 10 miles or more in a typical hour.
I doubt driving for these services is a huge win once all costs are taken into account but it seems closer to being a minimum wage job than a total bust.
Disagree. First, time value of money. The Prius costs $24k that you don't get to invest over the time you're driving. Let's call that $1-2k.
Plus, most drivers will pay interest on financing the car. ($1-5k depending on credit rating).
Then add:
Car washing/cleaning (and/or time spent doing so).
Repair (as you noted).
Maintenance: oil changes, wiper replacement, tire changes.
(In the opposite direction, depreciation is overestimated because you're throwing the car away after 5 years).
That gets your $15.5k down much closer to zero.
The article's bottom line is that Uber/Lyft drivers are getting paid way, way below minimum wage when all expenses are taken into account. That's left intact by the above calulcations, even if the numbers vary by 20% high or low.
> Even if we don't consider the fact that the cost of vehicle depreciation, maintenance and insurance is an "almost-fixed" or marginal cost because you are going to own the vehicle and pay for the insurance any way,
But all of these costs go up if you drive more miles. Your vehicle depreciates more if you put more miles on it (but not if it's parked in your garage), you need more frequent oil and tire changes, and your insurance rates go up because you're more likely to make a claim the more miles you drive annually. And rideshare insurance is more expensive.
The problem isn't the profit, but that there are a number of people using this as one of their primary income sources. I'm not sure how Uber et. al was originally promoted to drivers, but I've originally seen it as something like "I'm heading home from work, let me turn on my uber app and see if anyone around me needs a ride going in that direction".
Or, "I feel like riding around tonight, no particular place to go, may as well see if I can make a couple bucks by giving others a lift". I know that back when I was around 18 - 22 or so, I would often spend a saturday night just cruising with the radio playing, windows down, and enjoying the ride.
> I'm not sure how Uber et. al was originally promoted to drivers, but I've originally seen it as something like "I'm heading home from work, let me turn on my uber app and see if anyone around me needs a ride going in that direction".
That's not how Uber was originally promoted to drivers at all. Uber was originally promoted to high-end professional car drivers.
> I know that back when I was around 18 - 22 or so, I would often spend a saturday night just cruising with the radio playing, windows down, and enjoying the ride.
Fairly sure that the parameters of driving for Uber/Lyft preclude every single aspect of what makes that activity enjoyable for an 18-22 year old.
That could have been the original intent, and they may still use that argument, but if so it needs to be squared up with the fact that they relentlessly try and entice drivers to keep driving longer and farther. See: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/04/02/technology/ub...
Is that realistic given the extra insurance costs associated with using your vehicle as a private hire car? You'd have to do a lot of this just to recoup that cost.
> see if anyone around me needs a ride going in that direction
Do they allow you to set a destination area so that your fares are limited to this, or do you just get to review and accept fares so you can choose ones in the right direction? I wasn't aware it could be used to just pick up someone going the same direction.
I can see something like that doing very well, but I can also see how Uber might want to brand it slightly differently, as those drivers may be slightly less invested in driving for Uber and might be more likely to flake or not be as accommodating to passengers.
With heavy investments in self-driving cars, I doubt if Uber would really want to improve drivers' income. It'll all become irrelevant when self-driving taxis become available. It may not happen soon, but it's quite worrisome if people are using as one of their primary income sources.
I've never heard it be offered as that, and I've never heard anyone use it like that. For one, Uber doesn't know where you're going, so how would they know that the person who just hailed an Uber is going in that direction?
No they wanted full time people, that is why they were giving bonuses if you did 30 rides or something your first week (I dont remember the exact number) but they wanted people on the road a lot.
They say more than 80% of Uber drivers work less than 40 hours per week so that "median profit of $3/hr" is probably for someone working 10 hours per week.
1. The cost is absorbed by another entity, usually the parents. It is the parents' car, or your parents bought you a car. You need some quick cash, so you basically "eat out" of that car to generate that "cash".
2. You are trapped in a situation where you need quick cash. So you "eat out" of your vehicle to generate that cash. This also happens when you have a low "realization" consciousness. (ie: You are bad at math and economics and you think you are making money while you are losing money).
By driving Uber you are exposing yourself to greater risks: Accidents, Lawsuits and Lost opportunities have you been doing something else. But most people either have low realizations or are trapped. Usually both of them.
I have seen countless of people getting into this kind of business. One of them and probably the biggest is real-estate renting when the economics says NO! The argument is usually: well, it is sitting there anyway so any cash is a profit. It is not and it usually led to worse financial situations and then worse decisions.
> a low "realization" consciousness. (ie: You are bad at math and economics and you think you are making money while you are losing money)
I've not heard that phrase before. It brilliantly captures exactly how such a clearly predatory business model was blindly accepted by drivers and passengers alike. My ethics won't let me use either as a passenger, regardless of the "good deal"; I never could, and this is an issue with my work as management insists any business travel uses Uber. I flat out refuse. Our CEO's mouth dropped when I explained why, replying in a tiny voice "I'd never considered it that way".
There was an interesting observation on the road a few years back.
I saw a Dominos delivery driver in a high end Jaguar. I can only presume it was a young person borrowing their parents' car to do deliveries as their summer job or whatnot. It was amusing to me (having an economics background), because I couldn't figure out what the lesson was being taught here.
Doing some back of napkin math, there was absolutely no way for this kid to generate enough money to make up for the cost of operating this car in a suburban neighborhood. Between the high maintenance cost and the low gas mileage of a luxury car, he was losing money every minute that the jag was being operated (barring, of course, some insane tips for big orders).
As far as real estate: yes, it doesn't take a financial genius to realize that renting income after all expenses is far lower than most people estimate and net profit hovers around $0-100 in vast majority of even profitable cases. Besides, you aren't the first person to think about investing in RE, so all the economic profit is generally already priced into the value of land, so you won't be able to get a bargain.
Uber has deals with car rental agencies in several places that doesn't "allow" you to "eat out" your vehicle equity (I've seen Enterprise in CA and, I think, one other place, and Otto in London). The viability of such deals suggests that the numbers work out even without spending your equity.
This paper has actual data on earnings from all Uber drivers in all cities in the US. They find that the average earnings are $20 per hour with a standard deviation of $5 (there is substantial variation across cities and especially across time, with late nights on weekends being especially high earning). http://www.nber.org/papers/w23296
The authors are very well respected economists from UCLA and Yale, though it should be noted that one author was a former Uber employee.
This is substantially higher than the estimates in this newer study unless you think that the per hour operating costs of a car are $16 per hour. The new study bases it's numbers on self reported values from a relatively small sample, which is much less accurate than calculating an average using Uber's actual full database.
Another interesting finding from the study I linked is that a majority of Uber drivers work 20 or fewer hours per week and place a substantial value on the flexibility that they get from being able to choose their own hours.
> This is substantially higher than the estimates in this newer study unless you think that the per hour operating costs of a car are $16 per hour.
Fuel costs per hour could easily be a quarter or so of that, and fuel costs seem to be around 1/7 of total operating costs [0], so, yeah, $16+/hr isn't unreasonably high.
What is the incentive to drive for one of these services at that price point? Couldn't these people make more money (and not have to replace their car in five years) flipping burgers or the like?
Are drivers misled into believing they will make more? Is the cost per mile intentionally hidden from them?
The flaw in these studies are the assumption that the person would not have a car unless they were an Uber/Lyft driver. This has a huge impact on the final per hour calculations.
If the vehicle is a fixed cost for the person regardless of whether or not they are a driver, then factoring in the cost and depreciation of the vehicle isn't really a fair measure.
Uber, Lyft, and Juno only exist because the Taxi apps are bad or non-existent. If there was a Taxi app that worked exactly like these 3 apps, and not just for hailing taxis, then there would be no need for this.
That is entirely dependent on where you live and the quality of the Taxis. For example, in the London and Singapore, Taxis are awesome. In California, (particularly in the Bay area) - Taxis are horrible beyond belief. The cars are unsafe and uncomfortable, the drivers are terrible and lack knowledge. It's often the case that I will come out of a peninsula hotel (Say, San Mateo) and see a queue of taxis waiting to pick up passengers, and at the same time, a queue of people (myself included) waiting 5-10 minutes for an Uber to arrive. And that's just Uber X. Can you imagine executives used to Uber Black ever getting in a Taxi again?
I've taken thousands of taxi rides and over a thousand uber rides. No comparison between the two in certain regions.
In speaking with various drivers I've had I either hear that driving for [Lyft|Uber] is great, or terrible. There's rarely any in between.
I've had drivers who had worked with them for years, and seemed to be really happy, also new ones who were happy. Perhaps they have lower living expenses, or this is more pay than they made at other ventures, or uniquely fits their lives.
And I've had others who are really frustrated with the app, the GPS, traffic, the company, their compensation, the Pooling services, riders, etc.
Of note these are generally in the same geographic areas roughly (Boston and SF is where I ride most and flip between services as needed), so in theory it's sampling from a similar population.
One thing in particular I've asked drivers is if pool-services work ok for them. About half say yes and seem to love it, and the other half grumble that it never makes them any money.
I really wish I knew the other factors that go into this to understand the root causes better.
I wonder how much airbnb hosts are making. In Lisbon most airbnb hosts are amateurs who spend a few hours every week cleaning and greeting, and get the bejeezus taxed out of their parallel activity. I wonder if they’re doing any better than “transportation entrepreneurs” working for ridesharing companies.
“Of the five sources of cost estimated per mile (Insurance, Maintenance, Repairs, Fuel and Depreciation), approximately 40% of costs are attributable to Insurance, Maintenance and Repairs, 40% to fuel expenses, and 20% to depreciation.”
I don’t understand how insurance is a relevant cost. Insurance is required to legally operate a vehicle - this is something that they must have for their personal vehicle regardless of whether or not they are driving for Uber or Lyft. The only way this is a relevant cost is if they own their vehicle for the sole purpose of Uber or Lyft driving. I have to imagine that this is usually not the case.
Insurance for driving an Uber/Lyft is much more expensive than regular insurance, because it's considered commercial. In previous years, people could get away with not having it, but today every insurance company asks specifically if this vehicle was ever used in a driving service and will deny claims if it was found to be.
My experience in a big metro area has been that almost every Uber driver does this full-time, and their vehicle is for the sole purpose of Uber. I guess it depends on where you are.
I think the economics of driving marginally for Uber/Lyft (when you already own a car and pay insurance) are much better than driving exclusively for Uber/Lyft (when you have the bear the full cost of the auto purchase and insurance against your Uber/Lyft earnings).
This was my problem with the article. It assumes that people own vehicles for the sole purpose of driving for Uber/Lyft. Costs like maintenance, insurance, and repairs are arguably costs that every car owner has to pay for.
Ways in which this headline is potentially misleading:
1) Driving for Uber/Lyft/etc is not a full time job, and was not intended to be a full time job. It's a piecemeal work side job. The flexibility of working when you want, and not working when you don't want, is valuable and you don't get it for free.
2) "Profit" is not income. This is profit net of expenses. Expenses that, among other things, you can write off against your income. And to pre-empt the "Uber drivers can't afford tax accountants" criticism, Turbotax costs $50
3) The profitability of Uber driving can vary dramatically place to place. I often ask Uber drivers in SF how they like their jobs, what they make, etc. They consistently report to me that they make between $40k and $55k/yr. This is significantly higher than "below minimum wage". OTOH, I imagine that driving Ubers in a low density place, where cabs are less financially viable (say, Fargo) is a shitty job. Averaging across the San Franciscos and the Fargos of the country to say "Uber is a terrible job" is not an accurate representation of the facts.
Because they have literally no other choice? When your choice is to lose money driving for Uber, or starve, you kinda lose the ability to stop if you don't find it "useful".
Perhaps these companies should charge at least that rate, not to mention the drivers should be setting their own rates on top of that.
With an average speed of about 20mph (EPA urban drive cycle) you would need to "profit" about $0.50 per mile to make $10 per hour. I'm not gonna look up minimum wage and it varies per state, but anyone charging less than $1 per mile to give you a ride would seem to be screwing themselves over and would be better off flipping burgers.
Questionable statistics.
I know several people who driver rideshares for a secondary income and do quite well. They're not irrationally wasting their time. They're using vehicles that they're _already_ paying insurance on, et cetera. From their POV, they either drive rideshares and make money (couple hundred bucks maybe), or stay at home and relax. They've explained to me that they do it because their bored or have free time.
[+] [-] thisisit|8 years ago|reply
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16498551
[+] [-] misterbishop|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] regulation_d|8 years ago|reply
If I take the job I am not magically transformed into an employee of his, simply because I lacked the bargaining power to negotiate the rate.
The reason I am still a contractor is that I have absolute control over whether to agree to do that job at that price.
There are obviously lots of factors that are considered in the employee/contractor analysis. I just don’t feel that “ability to negotiate rate” is a particularly important one when “absolute ability to refuse fare” is in the picture.
[+] [-] monochromatic|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] eddieplan9|8 years ago|reply
At IRS rate of $0.54 a mile, let's say we buy a Prius (which is the most popular car used for ridesharing), for $23,000, and drive it for 100,000 miles and throw it away.
At IRS rate, that's a cost of $54,000.
Gas cost is about $8,000 (50MPG [1], $4/gallon). Insurance $1500 x 5 years ($1200 base insurance + $300 extra for rideshare add-on [2]). That still leaves us $15,500 (28.7% of estimated cost) to cover repair deductible etc. That's almost enough to buy another Prius.
Edits: I mistakenly said the study used IRS Mileage Rate. It does not.
[1] http://mikes-review.com/does-a-toyota-prius-really-get-50-mi...
[2] https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/insurance/best-ridesharing-i...
[+] [-] ghaff|8 years ago|reply
The paper actually seems to be trying to make the point that Uber drivers are gaming the tax system because their actual costs are lower than the IRS allowance.
$0.30 seems like a fairly reasonable number and it also matches up well with renting a car that's intended to be driven for a week like this and just buying gas for it. (There's also some cost associated with deadheading to the next pickup.)
The $0.59/mile revenue does seem a bit low. UberX or Lyft would seem to typically have pricing in the neighborhood of $1.00 to $1.50 per mile of which about 75% goes to the driver. So $1/mile would seem likely to be a better revenue number in which case the net is more like $0.70/mile and I would have to believe most drivers, even in a larger city, are driving 10 miles or more in a typical hour.
I doubt driving for these services is a huge win once all costs are taken into account but it seems closer to being a minimum wage job than a total bust.
[+] [-] mhneu|8 years ago|reply
That gets your $15.5k down much closer to zero.
The article's bottom line is that Uber/Lyft drivers are getting paid way, way below minimum wage when all expenses are taken into account. That's left intact by the above calulcations, even if the numbers vary by 20% high or low.
[+] [-] jogjayr|8 years ago|reply
But all of these costs go up if you drive more miles. Your vehicle depreciates more if you put more miles on it (but not if it's parked in your garage), you need more frequent oil and tire changes, and your insurance rates go up because you're more likely to make a claim the more miles you drive annually. And rideshare insurance is more expensive.
[+] [-] derekp7|8 years ago|reply
Or, "I feel like riding around tonight, no particular place to go, may as well see if I can make a couple bucks by giving others a lift". I know that back when I was around 18 - 22 or so, I would often spend a saturday night just cruising with the radio playing, windows down, and enjoying the ride.
[+] [-] chrisseaton|8 years ago|reply
That's not how Uber was originally promoted to drivers at all. Uber was originally promoted to high-end professional car drivers.
[+] [-] beager|8 years ago|reply
Fairly sure that the parameters of driving for Uber/Lyft preclude every single aspect of what makes that activity enjoyable for an 18-22 year old.
[+] [-] willnewman|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Brakenshire|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kbenson|8 years ago|reply
Do they allow you to set a destination area so that your fares are limited to this, or do you just get to review and accept fares so you can choose ones in the right direction? I wasn't aware it could be used to just pick up someone going the same direction.
I can see something like that doing very well, but I can also see how Uber might want to brand it slightly differently, as those drivers may be slightly less invested in driving for Uber and might be more likely to flake or not be as accommodating to passengers.
[+] [-] echevil|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] s73v3r_|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ProAm|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] saas_co_de|8 years ago|reply
They say more than 80% of Uber drivers work less than 40 hours per week so that "median profit of $3/hr" is probably for someone working 10 hours per week.
[+] [-] csomar|8 years ago|reply
1. The cost is absorbed by another entity, usually the parents. It is the parents' car, or your parents bought you a car. You need some quick cash, so you basically "eat out" of that car to generate that "cash".
2. You are trapped in a situation where you need quick cash. So you "eat out" of your vehicle to generate that cash. This also happens when you have a low "realization" consciousness. (ie: You are bad at math and economics and you think you are making money while you are losing money).
By driving Uber you are exposing yourself to greater risks: Accidents, Lawsuits and Lost opportunities have you been doing something else. But most people either have low realizations or are trapped. Usually both of them.
I have seen countless of people getting into this kind of business. One of them and probably the biggest is real-estate renting when the economics says NO! The argument is usually: well, it is sitting there anyway so any cash is a profit. It is not and it usually led to worse financial situations and then worse decisions.
[+] [-] bsenftner|8 years ago|reply
I've not heard that phrase before. It brilliantly captures exactly how such a clearly predatory business model was blindly accepted by drivers and passengers alike. My ethics won't let me use either as a passenger, regardless of the "good deal"; I never could, and this is an issue with my work as management insists any business travel uses Uber. I flat out refuse. Our CEO's mouth dropped when I explained why, replying in a tiny voice "I'd never considered it that way".
[+] [-] kirkland|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] antisthenes|8 years ago|reply
I saw a Dominos delivery driver in a high end Jaguar. I can only presume it was a young person borrowing their parents' car to do deliveries as their summer job or whatnot. It was amusing to me (having an economics background), because I couldn't figure out what the lesson was being taught here.
Doing some back of napkin math, there was absolutely no way for this kid to generate enough money to make up for the cost of operating this car in a suburban neighborhood. Between the high maintenance cost and the low gas mileage of a luxury car, he was losing money every minute that the jag was being operated (barring, of course, some insane tips for big orders).
As far as real estate: yes, it doesn't take a financial genius to realize that renting income after all expenses is far lower than most people estimate and net profit hovers around $0-100 in vast majority of even profitable cases. Besides, you aren't the first person to think about investing in RE, so all the economic profit is generally already priced into the value of land, so you won't be able to get a bargain.
[+] [-] mseebach|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] spaceflunky|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rodonn|8 years ago|reply
This is substantially higher than the estimates in this newer study unless you think that the per hour operating costs of a car are $16 per hour. The new study bases it's numbers on self reported values from a relatively small sample, which is much less accurate than calculating an average using Uber's actual full database.
Another interesting finding from the study I linked is that a majority of Uber drivers work 20 or fewer hours per week and place a substantial value on the flexibility that they get from being able to choose their own hours.
[+] [-] dragonwriter|8 years ago|reply
Fuel costs per hour could easily be a quarter or so of that, and fuel costs seem to be around 1/7 of total operating costs [0], so, yeah, $16+/hr isn't unreasonably high.
[0] https://www.rita.dot.gov/bts/sites/rita.dot.gov.bts/files/pu...
[+] [-] Liquix|8 years ago|reply
Are drivers misled into believing they will make more? Is the cost per mile intentionally hidden from them?
[+] [-] bparsons|8 years ago|reply
If the vehicle is a fixed cost for the person regardless of whether or not they are a driver, then factoring in the cost and depreciation of the vehicle isn't really a fair measure.
[+] [-] martin_bech|8 years ago|reply
1. This is at subsidised Uber pricing, where Uber is loosing money at an alarming rate.
2. This means driving for Uber is terrible economicly.
3. This also implies that even getting to driverless cars, Uber will only save 3.37 per hour, not making the business model viable, I would think.
[+] [-] jdlyga|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ghshephard|8 years ago|reply
I've taken thousands of taxi rides and over a thousand uber rides. No comparison between the two in certain regions.
[+] [-] tibbon|8 years ago|reply
I've had drivers who had worked with them for years, and seemed to be really happy, also new ones who were happy. Perhaps they have lower living expenses, or this is more pay than they made at other ventures, or uniquely fits their lives.
And I've had others who are really frustrated with the app, the GPS, traffic, the company, their compensation, the Pooling services, riders, etc.
Of note these are generally in the same geographic areas roughly (Boston and SF is where I ride most and flip between services as needed), so in theory it's sampling from a similar population.
One thing in particular I've asked drivers is if pool-services work ok for them. About half say yes and seem to love it, and the other half grumble that it never makes them any money.
I really wish I knew the other factors that go into this to understand the root causes better.
[+] [-] chadwittman|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] zemvpferreira|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] vlovich123|8 years ago|reply
TLDR: It's probably correct but also highly misleading in how it's characterized.
[+] [-] filesystem|8 years ago|reply
I don’t understand how insurance is a relevant cost. Insurance is required to legally operate a vehicle - this is something that they must have for their personal vehicle regardless of whether or not they are driving for Uber or Lyft. The only way this is a relevant cost is if they own their vehicle for the sole purpose of Uber or Lyft driving. I have to imagine that this is usually not the case.
[+] [-] mywittyname|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] reynoldsbd|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hmahncke|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] thesumofall|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cyclonetiger|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] emodendroket|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] s73v3r_|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sol_remmy|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] eqdw|8 years ago|reply
1) Driving for Uber/Lyft/etc is not a full time job, and was not intended to be a full time job. It's a piecemeal work side job. The flexibility of working when you want, and not working when you don't want, is valuable and you don't get it for free.
2) "Profit" is not income. This is profit net of expenses. Expenses that, among other things, you can write off against your income. And to pre-empt the "Uber drivers can't afford tax accountants" criticism, Turbotax costs $50
3) The profitability of Uber driving can vary dramatically place to place. I often ask Uber drivers in SF how they like their jobs, what they make, etc. They consistently report to me that they make between $40k and $55k/yr. This is significantly higher than "below minimum wage". OTOH, I imagine that driving Ubers in a low density place, where cabs are less financially viable (say, Fargo) is a shitty job. Averaging across the San Franciscos and the Fargos of the country to say "Uber is a terrible job" is not an accurate representation of the facts.
[+] [-] qudat|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] s73v3r_|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] graeme|8 years ago|reply
They often have very nice cars. What is going on: are these drivers just doing it as a hobby? Are they somehow earning more than others?
One would assume that you can be fooled and stay in the game for 3-9 months at $3.37 an hour, but not 3+ years.
[+] [-] phkahler|8 years ago|reply
https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/standard-mileage-rates-for-2018...
Perhaps these companies should charge at least that rate, not to mention the drivers should be setting their own rates on top of that.
With an average speed of about 20mph (EPA urban drive cycle) you would need to "profit" about $0.50 per mile to make $10 per hour. I'm not gonna look up minimum wage and it varies per state, but anyone charging less than $1 per mile to give you a ride would seem to be screwing themselves over and would be better off flipping burgers.
[+] [-] cypherg|8 years ago|reply