1. Getting women in the pipeline from an early age. Whether it's cultural, or women in developed Western economies don't need an escape hatch like in places they face few options --as a country, if we are to progress, we have to find a way to improve the pipeline. Increase the pool of women candidates, and you will not have to work hard at finding good candidates.
2. Google should have not touched the live wire that is a publicly stated policy for PR brownie points. If they meant to improve things, introduce processes without the unnecessary fanfare because, as we now are witnessing, they are being pincered from both sides --which is ultimately counterproductive.
I would agree with the first option, if people want more women in IT, the only realistic way is to get more in IT schools, recruitment quotas won't change anything about the reality of the field at all. It's just going to make things worse by triggering internal fights because some employees feel left out (already happens it seems). Even if in the hypothetical case where you manage to hire 50% women, you are just reducing the percentage of women everywhere else, it's not that much of an achievement.
And this is how blatant discrimination goes on. Why is it so important to have women in computer science or STEM? Why can't we leave them alone and let them choose? Is it money? Sure, google/fb and select few pays well. They also ask you to put in 40-50 hours per week. Not all jobs are dev jobs just for your information.
I worked for top 3 out of top 6 companies in the valley. You wouldn't believe amount of discrimination and denial of opportunities men face. Men are not considered at all and not making it to the pipeline itself.
If you are 30+ and male, it's game over in the valley.
1. Getting women in the pipeline from an early age. Whether it's cultural, or women in developed Western economies don't need an escape hatch like in places they face few options --as a country, if we are to progress, we have to find a way to improve the pipeline. Increase the pool of women candidates, and you will not have to work hard at finding good candidates.
I've been in relationships with 2 women who could code, but who absolutely didn't want to do that as a job. (They formed these ideas well before they met me.) I also taught 100 level Computer Science courses at University, and encountered many young women with similar attitudes. There is something going on in our culture which makes women not want to code as a job.
Google should have not touched the live wire that is a public policy for PR brownie points.
I suspect that they were invaded by large numbers of employees with an agenda who have what they feel is a moral mandate, who won't take no for an answer, who furthermore feel they are justified in toxic and intellectually stifling behaviors by their moral mandate. People are taught in college and socialized in online groups that it is their moral duty to pursue this agenda and take such actions. Given the scope of the reactions I saw come out of Google during the Damore furor, I think it's basically too late for them. I'd hope to be wrong, but I see little hope.
I don't think Google is wrong for trying to recruit more women. Their problems have to do with how their efforts have manifested in their internal culture in a way which stifles free inquiry and dissent. If it hasn't already happened it's only a matter of time before they succumb to stagnation and only run off of their market position and network effects. Also, as we have seen with other media companies, at some point in their decline, the decline will motivate behaviors which are harmful to society at large. I suspect this process has already begun.
I wonder at what point the work is more important? These discussions upto a certain point are helpful when does it start to hurt the competitiveness of company.
May sound odd but I have found working with a bunch of other white folks to be like high school especially in the 20 to 40 age range. While as a white guy working with just about all Indians to the best working environment. Though it is socially lacking due to culture differences there isnt a bunch of insecure back stabbing types .... just ppl that work well together and without judgement.
Also I work in the government sector redesigning and developing govt sites and apps. It's not Google and Facebook but it is Medicare and other names yet ppl aren't banging at their door begging to work there .. so there's also that lack of competition and competition/insecurities brings out the worst in many.
You must have been lucky enough to be working with Indians who were all from the same caste. I've worked as an intermediary to different teams comprised of competing castes because they refused to work with each other.
Interesting.. I've come to a similar conclusion with my team. A majority of the team is white men but there are immigrants from SE Asia (Philippines, Vietnam, India) other minorities (Black American [I'm one], African, & women). I generally find the immigrants / minorities more interesting to talk to.. especially when it comes to their thoughts on American culture. The white guys seem to be very similar and outside of work seem to love to talk about the same topics: beer, video games, 80s culture, etc.
You are mixing up race and culture. Being white or brown doesn't cause certain behaviors or interaction patterns, but being Californian/American/Indian really does.
What you are saying is that you prefer working with Indians because of their different culture, not that white 20-40 year olds are all like high-schoolers. The latter is racist.
It's also the same company that pushes out a "do no evil" narrative while throwing their AI on top of predator drones so middle grounds are a bit tough for them.
[+] [-] mc32|8 years ago|reply
1. Getting women in the pipeline from an early age. Whether it's cultural, or women in developed Western economies don't need an escape hatch like in places they face few options --as a country, if we are to progress, we have to find a way to improve the pipeline. Increase the pool of women candidates, and you will not have to work hard at finding good candidates.
2. Google should have not touched the live wire that is a publicly stated policy for PR brownie points. If they meant to improve things, introduce processes without the unnecessary fanfare because, as we now are witnessing, they are being pincered from both sides --which is ultimately counterproductive.
[+] [-] realusername|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] falcolas|8 years ago|reply
How is this any different from a culture which pushes women away from STEM? In either case, we're pushing our expectations upon those girls.
[+] [-] u5|8 years ago|reply
I worked for top 3 out of top 6 companies in the valley. You wouldn't believe amount of discrimination and denial of opportunities men face. Men are not considered at all and not making it to the pipeline itself. If you are 30+ and male, it's game over in the valley.
[+] [-] stcredzero|8 years ago|reply
I've been in relationships with 2 women who could code, but who absolutely didn't want to do that as a job. (They formed these ideas well before they met me.) I also taught 100 level Computer Science courses at University, and encountered many young women with similar attitudes. There is something going on in our culture which makes women not want to code as a job.
Liana K covered some of this in an even handed way, even as the fury was still running hot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIRvtA2JIIA
Google should have not touched the live wire that is a public policy for PR brownie points.
I suspect that they were invaded by large numbers of employees with an agenda who have what they feel is a moral mandate, who won't take no for an answer, who furthermore feel they are justified in toxic and intellectually stifling behaviors by their moral mandate. People are taught in college and socialized in online groups that it is their moral duty to pursue this agenda and take such actions. Given the scope of the reactions I saw come out of Google during the Damore furor, I think it's basically too late for them. I'd hope to be wrong, but I see little hope.
I don't think Google is wrong for trying to recruit more women. Their problems have to do with how their efforts have manifested in their internal culture in a way which stifles free inquiry and dissent. If it hasn't already happened it's only a matter of time before they succumb to stagnation and only run off of their market position and network effects. Also, as we have seen with other media companies, at some point in their decline, the decline will motivate behaviors which are harmful to society at large. I suspect this process has already begun.
[+] [-] hemantv|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] throwaway_234|8 years ago|reply
Also I work in the government sector redesigning and developing govt sites and apps. It's not Google and Facebook but it is Medicare and other names yet ppl aren't banging at their door begging to work there .. so there's also that lack of competition and competition/insecurities brings out the worst in many.
[+] [-] jingleheimer|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 40acres|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] TheAdamAndChe|8 years ago|reply
What you are saying is that you prefer working with Indians because of their different culture, not that white 20-40 year olds are all like high-schoolers. The latter is racist.
[+] [-] RobLach|8 years ago|reply