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Matias Click Switches: Tactile mechanical keyswitches

46 points| arm | 8 years ago |matias.ca | reply

53 comments

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[+] TrispusAttucks|8 years ago|reply
This article is lying or perhaps I am misunderstanding.

The article states: "Cherry switches are linear — by definition, not tactile. They lack a click leaf, which is required for tactile feedback."

I have used and built several mechanical keyboards with Cherry MX Blue switches. They _are_ non-linear and _do_ include a click leaf which gives the Cherry MX Blue [1] its characteristic "bump" feel and click.

[1] https://ergodox-ez.com/pages/keyswitches

[+] bla2|8 years ago|reply
Browns, clear, grey, green, white are nonlinear as well: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherry_(keyboards)

Subjectively I like cherry more than Mathias so far from the typing feel. I built keyboards with blues, greens, and reds, and I got one keyboard with Mathias switches. I like Topre even more than Cherry. But it's all very subjective.

[+] trampypizza|8 years ago|reply
As a blues-user myself I agree with you. They are both non-linear and include the click leaf. I've found quite a good gif [1] that demonstrates the difference between switches and shows the mechanism in the blue switch. Whilst I don't know if this diagram was produced by Cherry, or another authoritative source, I know that within the Mech community it has been recognised as being entirely accurate.

[1] https://i.imgur.com/WWH2M96.gif

[+] kw71|8 years ago|reply
They are also not very honest about "Cherry copied our backlighting idea" - all the MX I ever saw have a hole for a 3mm LED, and I'm sure I saw other vendors selling backlit keyboards with MX switches even if Cherry itself was late to this game. I think it's all retarded, and it's not very innovative by itself to replace blue diodes or whatever with multicolor diodes. Whatever will sell to kids eh?
[+] ch_123|8 years ago|reply
The tactility of the Cherry MX Blues is not particularly satisfying by the standard of other clicky switches (e.g. buckling springs, Alps, etc). I've recently tried out the Kailh Box switches which have a different tactile mechanism, and they are (IMHO) a big improvement over the MX Blues.
[+] sleepybrett|8 years ago|reply
article lies. Cherry makes several varieties of mx switches. They generally fit into one of three buckets. Linear (constant force throughout the stroke), clicky (has a tiny "clicker" int he switch that adds a small "bump", or area where you need to apply a few more grams for force, and an audible click), and tactile (contains a "bump" in the stroke to indicate the actuation point, like clicky but without the auditory feedback.. though the bump generally doesn't feel as crisp).
[+] yellowapple|8 years ago|reply
I use Cherry MX Greens at work. Ain't linear at all. Definitely agree that whoever wrote this worded it poorly.
[+] sz4kerto|8 years ago|reply
I have a Matias Ergo Pro. It's a brilliant split keyboard. Great quiet but tactile switches, tenting, etc.

But the QC is terrible. The interconnect cable had connection issues, keys are often 'stuck' (not physically, just keeps repeating until I press it again), etc.

And the internet is full with complaints. It's a pity, but I would not recommend them right now. (I've sent it back then got a new one with exactly the same issues, then I didn't bother in the end even though I paid more than 200 Euros for it.)

[+] monsieurbanana|8 years ago|reply
Paid 150 euros for mine (matias silent something), was faulty (some keys would either not record a press, or record twice), asked for a replacement.

Replacement had the same problem. 150 euros thrown.

Otherwise an awesome keyboard, that I'll never recommend to anyone.

[+] castillar76|8 years ago|reply
I had exactly the same problem with the Ergo Pro, with exactly the same resolution: within a year, it was simply untenable to continue using it due to repetitive key issues. It's a shame, because I actually liked the feel of their keyswitches, but it was starting to drive me nuts the number of times I'd have to correct something, to say nothing of the number of mangled vi and zsh commands that resulted from a stuck "r" or "t".

I really liked the split layout, though, and going back to a tenkeyless non-split keyboard started to bug my wrists. Fortunately, Kinesis now has a split keyboard that uses genuine CherryMX switches, and it's been terrific: the combination of a split, adjustable keyboard with actual mechanical switches has finally made my wrists and fingers happy.

[+] kgtm|8 years ago|reply
I echo this. When my TKL KBParadise with Matias Quiet Click switches started misbehaving I was quite disappointed to find out that chatter is a common defect of Matias switches. Don't like the stabilizers either. Should have stuck with Cherry MX Browns, by far my favorite switch.
[+] arnvald|8 years ago|reply
Unfortunately I've had the same experience.

1st keyboard: connectivity issues after 2 months, got replacement

2nd keyboard: some keys (4-5 letters) detected two presses when I pressed a button, got replacement

3rd keyboard: same issue as 2nd one, with different keys.

Then I gave up and switched back to my old keyboard.

[+] Nexxxeh|8 years ago|reply
There's very possible still some value in the keyboard. Someone over at /r/Mechanicalkeyboards would certainly take a look. It might be a matter of removing the current controller chip and putting in something custom. Or removing the switches and using them in a new design. They've put more effort into less.
[+] FranOntanaya|8 years ago|reply
Same here. Even soldering and replacing switches couldn't keep it going. The switches had a thin metal contact that has to bend to close the circuit and it'd just break after little use.
[+] tuananh|8 years ago|reply
for me, the problem is the key (pressing 1 time resulting in 2 chars, not sure what's the proper term for that)
[+] rlonstein|8 years ago|reply
I've gone through a lot of keyboards. IBM, Unicomp, Sun Type 4 and 5, Apple ALPS with ADB converter, a bunch with various Cherry switches including Filco, Leupold, etc.

I had two Matias keyboards, the tactile pro (I think original) and the 2, and while the switches are okay neither held up to daily use with keys that wobbled, cracked plastic, and both suffered from keybounce and had poor NKRO (enough that I noticed it in Emacs). No thanks.

I settled on a KUL tenkeyless board with Cherry Green key switches[1] which feel similar to buckling spring and it takes up less deskspace. The caps have worn slick and the printing nearly gone but the feel is still good.

[1] https://deskthority.net/wiki/Cherry_MX_Green

[+] yla92|8 years ago|reply
Did you manage to try HHKB Topre ?
[+] jmull|8 years ago|reply
I loved my Matias keyboards, but they just did not last.

After a while I’d start getting dead keys and double-characters. Pulling the key caps, blowing some air, and putting them back on helps... for a while. Ultimately, it was too frustrating and now I’m back to an un-clacky keyboard :( oh, well.

[+] sleepybrett|8 years ago|reply
Yeah the Matias Alps clone switches are notorious for accumulating crap inside the switch causing them to need to be cleaned to maintain working order.
[+] tuananh|8 years ago|reply
I love matias switches, however my experience with them is terrible. i got replacement twice (3 boards), however, none of them work properly.
[+] mseidl|8 years ago|reply
I have a keyboard with a mathias silent switches, but I'm replacing it with a Pok3r with browns. I like the browns better.
[+] bovermyer|8 years ago|reply
I have two mechanical keyboards. One is a Corsair K70 with Cherry reds that I use for gaming at home. The other is a Velocifire T11 with brown (non-Cherry) switches that I bought for $37 on Amazon, which I use at work.

The K70 I've had for at least 5 years now, and it still works flawlessly. The T11 I've had for about a year and a half, and it also works flawlessly.

[+] ssebastianj|8 years ago|reply
My first (and current) mechanical keyboard was a Corsair K70 non-RGB with Cherry MX Browns. I don't game so I use it mostly for work-related tasks: programming, writing docs, books. I'm quite happy with it so far.
[+] Pingk|8 years ago|reply
I have a Matias Quiet Pro Mini (2016) and it's by far the most comfortable mech I've tried (Cherry brown, red, blue and black. Would like to try clear and green).

From what I've heard their QC has improved over the past couple of years, and I've not had any problems with mine. They're also working on PBT keycaps which should arrive in a few months.

The dream would be a Planck or Preonic with Matias switches...

[+] zaarn|8 years ago|reply
I do recommend trying Clears. I have a natural heavy typing, I do hammer keys with extreme force if they have any more way than cheap rubberdome keyboards.

The clears are very nice to type on though I wish I would have had a chance to try the superblacks. I'm looking into ways to increase the force on the switches for a while now, springs have been suggested at some point.

[+] amelius|8 years ago|reply
Halfbaked idea: somebody should start a service where you upload a 3d design of a keyboard, including a mapping of keys to keycodes, and they will build the keyboard for you.
[+] nicwest|8 years ago|reply
so while it's not exactly the all in one service you describe, you can do something similar already:

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/

to design your layout, then

http://builder.swillkb.com/

to design a layer case, files go to a laser cutting service,

then you would need a controller of some sort (commonly something like a https://www.pjrc.com/teensy/), switches, diodes, usb ports, etc.

then hand wire everything together.

tmk/qmk is more or less a defacto standard in custom keyboard firmware:

https://github.com/qmk/qmk_firmware

here are some examples of people generating firmware with webtools, I don't know what they use on the backend.

https://www.massdrop.com/configurator/ergodox

http://qmk.thevankeyboards.com/

[+] sleepybrett|8 years ago|reply
Matias switches are knockoffs of the classic Alps switches you might find in an older apple, dell or SGI board. However their tacticle is nowhere near as good as classic brown alps. They also have a reputation for collecting dirt, causing them to need to be cleaned to stay in good working order.

My suggestion, just go with cherry or their knockoffs unless you really really want to use a classic set of alps keycaps.

[+] jonloldrup|8 years ago|reply
Having tendon issues in my wrists, I would love a linear keyboard with gentle push down force. Or at least just gentle push down force. Any suggestions?
[+] jdietrich|8 years ago|reply
The Gateron Clear switch is the lightest linear switch currently available, with an actuation force of about 30g - half that of a typical membrane key switch and 50% less than the Cherry MX Red linear switch. It's not a particularly popular switch, because it's so light that the weight of your fingers tends to cause accidental keypresses on the home row. Nonetheless, you can buy a KBParadise V60 keyboard with Gateron clears. The Qisan Magicforce 68 is occasionally available with Gateron clear switches. Alternatively, you could buy the keyswitches and build a keyboard to your own specifications using a bare keyboard PCB.

http://www.mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Gateron-Clear-switch-3-pin-for-mech...

https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_det...

[+] opencl|8 years ago|reply
Cherry MX Red switches are probably what you want, there are tons of keyboards with cherry switches and frankly not a whole lot of difference between them in terms of typing experience. Corsair K66 is a decent example, one of the cheapest at $60 from amazon currently and doesn't have the ridiculous "gaming aesthetic" that plagues so many mechanical keyboards.
[+] DennisP|8 years ago|reply
Cherry Red switches are linear with light force. I was having some finger joint pain for a while, and bought keyboards with both Cherry Reds and Cherry Browns (similar but with a slight force bump). It took a little while but I trained myself to type on these without bottoming out the keys. My finger problems cleared right up, and as a bonus I ended up typing faster.