I just downloaded my Facebook data archive. It is incomplete. They are leaving out one of the creepiest aspects: Your search history.
Click in the search bar on Facebook. On the right is an Edit button. This shows the search history they keep on you -- all the people you've looked up. Says a lot about you. It goes back years, unless you clear it. (And who knows what "clear" really means.)
This would be a rather unsettling thing to see in your archive. They totally left it out.
Why should Facebook remember the people I’ve cut off from my life?
For one reason, so they aren’t recommended to you as a possible friend in the future. Seems like a minor thing to be upset about in a possibility space of major things.
Seems reasonable. I can see the <insert perpetually outraged millennial news site> headline now: "An open letter to Facebook: How dare you recommended I be friends with my rapist"
By contrast, I found that my Facebook dump was extremely devoid of information. Sure, a few advertisers have my data (but much fewer than in the article, < 200!). Beyond that, the dump contains very little information that I didn’t explicitly provide to Facebook (such as Timeline posts, images, etc). At most it assigned a very broad category to me (“Established Adult Life” — OK, duh).
Of note, it did not contain any record of phone calls or SMS conversations I’ve had. This is probably because I didn’t give Facebook permission to collect this data, when asked.
Of course I’m under no illusion that this is the only data that Facebook has on me. Based on my (even sporadic) activity they must be able to infer lots more (and then there’s all that tracker data). They just don’t make the interesting bits downloadable.
Agreed; missing from the list is which entities have me in their list of contacts. This is of course available to Facebook. Of course they can't give me this data because they don't have consent from the other party, but still at least a nod to the missing data would be appropriate.
For a while I had enabled Messenger to handle texts on my phone, because it kept nagging me to do so, and also the one built in to the phone was terrible. So that means for a time they saw all my github/gmail authenticator login codes, delivery notifications, etc. I'm sure that's all somewhere.
On a brighter note, I downloaded an archive of my LinkedIn data. The data set was less than half a megabyte and contained exactly what I had expected: spreadsheets of my LinkedIn contacts and information I had added to my profile.
Somehow I'm unwilling to believe that Linkedin is really an exception here. More likely they don't include all the data they have on you.
I downloaded my facebook data, and the only thing that I was surprised at is that they actually give you so much of the data they have on you. I expected them to redact most of it. Is it really reasonable to think that they don't have even more data than they let you download? They're not required by law to give it all to you, are they?
Linkedin is worse than Facebook in terms of privacy. So many dark patterns on their site - someday their reckoning will come just as facebooks. Easier target too since it could hurt people’s jobs and careers.
> Is it really reasonable to think that they don't have even more data than they let you download?
No. They have more data. They have lots more data. Browsing history for example via trackers.
And no, we (Americans) do not have any meaningful laws. Nothing. Nor do we have any rights to privacy. We have no right to know what personal private information is being collected, bought, or sold.
Anecdotally, I had a very strange experience with LinkedIn. I went to stay with my friend in another country for a few days and upon returning home, LinkedIn recommended his father as a connection - despite me never electronically contacting him. The friend I stayed with doesn't have LinkedIn nor have I contacted him over email or similar. My guess is that it must have been location based or because I connected to their WiFi - very weird.
exactly... do not take at face value what these services deliver to you. I chuckled at the guy who assumed he deleted all of his FB data via a data scrapping client..
"They're not required by law to give it all to you, are they?"
Not sure about the law (which also changes from country to country) but even if they'd be required to give all users their data, it is possible that they keep a relevant slice of the results obtained by matching that data. Releasing all that data public could reveal the inner workings of their algorithms, so I'd understand if they would rather release what people gave them while keeping most of what they inferred from that information, which of course is where the real knowledge is.
In the UK, and possibly throughout the EU, they legally have to provide everything they have on you under the Data Protection Act for no more than a £10 administration fee.
I have known for a long time, even before the scandal, that my time on the socalled social media site was coming to an end.
Being a software engineer I believe I am aware of a good deal of what is going on behind the scenes at Facebook, in terms of collecting data etc.
Talking to people which has no technical insight around
privacy, and what data is collected as such, frustrates me to a whole new level than before.
It amazes me that people don't sit down for a couple of hours and tries to understand how the company works and what their business model is based on. And what data is collected from them, with or without their knowledge.
I am happy to be off and I will try to convince my peers to understand why.
If it were only social media companies that might be significant, but every company we interact with is doing the same things these days. For example, did you know that employers are selling weekly paycheck info to credit bureaus without consent? Unbelievable it's not illegal.
For some strange reason Americans only care about privacy regarding medical info, but everything else is totally up for grabs. Never understood that dichotomy.
>More important, the pieces of data that I found objectionable, like the record of people I had unfriended, could not be removed from Facebook, either.
The article somewhat alludes to this practice as nefarious so that Facebook can serve better ads. Through a different view, one where you don't assume the worst, you could argue they keep a record of who you unfriend, so they don't recommend them as a friend again.
We are currently in a place where everything Facebook does is bad. Let's be a bit more rationale at times.
Even if you were able to delete yourself entirely from Facebook. You have been "consumed" already.
Your data was valuable in at least 2 ways:
- Monetize to companies such as Cambridge Analytics.
- Train Facebook's AI models using it.
What was probably happening, was that Facebook was selling your data to other companies so that they can train AI models/make conclusions etc. In addition, Facebook itself is using this data to train AI, make conclusions etc.
Facebook will no longer be able to Monetize to companies as much after this media.
However, and this is the big one, if they use your data to train their models to target individuals (and therefore "take advantage" of them), then they can claim that your data was not used. And then they sell the models, or the results of the models. Its like indirectly selling your data.
This could be a big win for Facebook, because if Facebook does not dish out our information to other companies, it will *uniquely" be placed to provide such services to the rest of the world.
> then they sell the models, or the results of the models
Meh, the models will be worthless in a few months, and that is if they aren't already worthless right now.
All those black boxes with magic coefficients from inputs to outputs are inherently unmaintainable. Toss them a black swan, and it all goes pear-shaped.
Facebook doesn't and has never sold data. It has a free developer platform that has been reduced over time to almost nothing and it has ad products where it uses the data it has to deliver ads to people that match criteria.
It's interesting to note that the data Google stored was more alarming, though was taken up at the bottom of the article and with less detail. It also didn't make the headline. This is because bashing Facebook gets more views currently. This is a good example of how media bias can distort opinion, while maintaining that all data stated is accurate.
In other words, it's not enough that media is accurate. Bias is just as important.
No, they downloaded the portion Facebook is willing to allow them to download. This is absolutely not everything Facebook has.
Note the wording here, which is similar to the misleading wording Zuckerberg used to avoid honestly answering certain questions in recent days:
> “allows people to see and take out all the information they’ve put into Facebook.”
This doesn't include data such as:
- Data your "friends" have "put into Facebook" about you, which could include SMS/call records of your communications with those friends and various other details.
- Data Facebook purchases or collects from data brokers or public records
- Data Facebook collects on the broader web via "like" buttons, etc
Exactly. I downloaded mine and there were entire chat histories missing, and some of the ones I explored were incomplete. I could see more data in the actual browser chat interface than what was in the download. It didn't include posts I made on other people pages, all the likes, shares, and the thousands of gifs I've sh!tposted. It also did not include data from the pages I manage/own.
These dumps of all the stuff that is in the service about you is super dangerous. If they get your account they can then download everything you have ever posted almost effortlessly. I can imagine these will be on sale in the dark web.
Missing from the list is any way to find out what some of these listed entities mean. For example, under "Advertisers who uploaded a contact list with your information" is claimed "Nebula Mars". What exactly is that? I can't google it and get any useful result. It both meaningless in its terminally symbolic state and deeply meaningful as an indicator of where my data is truly living in the world.
I left Facebook years ago for this kind of privacy scraping antisocial greed (and LinkedIn et al), but one thing I'm curious about with this latest 'revelation' is whether or not you can get information about your shadow profile.
Presumably that doesn't mean an email address, they actually collate information about you the individual - what's the process of having a look at that?
Can anyone explain to me why FB and Google surveillance of me does not violate the 4th amendment? "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated..."
>The social network had even kept a permanent record of the roughly 100 people I had deleted from my friends list over the last 14 years, including my exes.
How useful is the info one can even get from this?
I mean even if you interpret unfriending as enemying (which is a leap), possibly revealing interests you don't have, associations you don't have.... it's a lot weaker (to advertisers) than positive information.
As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, it's probably so they don't recommend those connections in the future. I think the average user would be much more upset at facebook recommending they add their ex as a friend (because of course you have a lot of mutual connections, tagged pictures, and other flags that might indicate a strong bond) than just keeping a black list of people you've chosen to remove.
[+] [-] abalone|8 years ago|reply
Click in the search bar on Facebook. On the right is an Edit button. This shows the search history they keep on you -- all the people you've looked up. Says a lot about you. It goes back years, unless you clear it. (And who knows what "clear" really means.)
This would be a rather unsettling thing to see in your archive. They totally left it out.
[+] [-] WA|8 years ago|reply
- Likes on everything I liked on FB and external
- Shares via Share Buttons on external websites
- Websites I visited and where I was tracked because of Social Media buttons
- Time spent on FB
- Status updates I changed or dismissed
- Mouse hovering behavior to train the feed
- Data like my phone number that wasn’t put there by me but correlated through my friends address books
- Metadata through WhatsApp acquisition
- ...
[+] [-] sschueller|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] WillPostForFood|8 years ago|reply
For one reason, so they aren’t recommended to you as a possible friend in the future. Seems like a minor thing to be upset about in a possibility space of major things.
[+] [-] phy6|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mrlala|8 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] klmr|8 years ago|reply
Of note, it did not contain any record of phone calls or SMS conversations I’ve had. This is probably because I didn’t give Facebook permission to collect this data, when asked.
Of course I’m under no illusion that this is the only data that Facebook has on me. Based on my (even sporadic) activity they must be able to infer lots more (and then there’s all that tracker data). They just don’t make the interesting bits downloadable.
[+] [-] bdamm|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] phy6|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] qntty|8 years ago|reply
Somehow I'm unwilling to believe that Linkedin is really an exception here. More likely they don't include all the data they have on you.
I downloaded my facebook data, and the only thing that I was surprised at is that they actually give you so much of the data they have on you. I expected them to redact most of it. Is it really reasonable to think that they don't have even more data than they let you download? They're not required by law to give it all to you, are they?
[+] [-] taurath|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sixothree|8 years ago|reply
No. They have more data. They have lots more data. Browsing history for example via trackers.
And no, we (Americans) do not have any meaningful laws. Nothing. Nor do we have any rights to privacy. We have no right to know what personal private information is being collected, bought, or sold.
[+] [-] antisthenes|8 years ago|reply
1. Not providing tools to see or download your data
2. Simply not providing options to turn off data collection or pretending that the options available are complete.
3. Providing tools to see and download a portion of your data, pretending that it is complete
4. Pretending to delete your data on account deletion but retaining the data, or at least a portion of the data
5. Collecting more data than they say they do
6. Collecting data on people who do not directly interact with the company services
[+] [-] hunt|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jordache|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] whyever|8 years ago|reply
They are in Europe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Schrems
[+] [-] squarefoot|8 years ago|reply
Not sure about the law (which also changes from country to country) but even if they'd be required to give all users their data, it is possible that they keep a relevant slice of the results obtained by matching that data. Releasing all that data public could reveal the inner workings of their algorithms, so I'd understand if they would rather release what people gave them while keeping most of what they inferred from that information, which of course is where the real knowledge is.
[+] [-] celticninja|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] danielovichdk|8 years ago|reply
I have known for a long time, even before the scandal, that my time on the socalled social media site was coming to an end.
Being a software engineer I believe I am aware of a good deal of what is going on behind the scenes at Facebook, in terms of collecting data etc.
Talking to people which has no technical insight around privacy, and what data is collected as such, frustrates me to a whole new level than before.
It amazes me that people don't sit down for a couple of hours and tries to understand how the company works and what their business model is based on. And what data is collected from them, with or without their knowledge.
I am happy to be off and I will try to convince my peers to understand why.
[+] [-] mixmastamyk|8 years ago|reply
For some strange reason Americans only care about privacy regarding medical info, but everything else is totally up for grabs. Never understood that dichotomy.
[+] [-] giarc|8 years ago|reply
The article somewhat alludes to this practice as nefarious so that Facebook can serve better ads. Through a different view, one where you don't assume the worst, you could argue they keep a record of who you unfriend, so they don't recommend them as a friend again.
We are currently in a place where everything Facebook does is bad. Let's be a bit more rationale at times.
[+] [-] laythea|8 years ago|reply
Even if you were able to delete yourself entirely from Facebook. You have been "consumed" already.
Your data was valuable in at least 2 ways: - Monetize to companies such as Cambridge Analytics. - Train Facebook's AI models using it.
What was probably happening, was that Facebook was selling your data to other companies so that they can train AI models/make conclusions etc. In addition, Facebook itself is using this data to train AI, make conclusions etc.
Facebook will no longer be able to Monetize to companies as much after this media.
However, and this is the big one, if they use your data to train their models to target individuals (and therefore "take advantage" of them), then they can claim that your data was not used. And then they sell the models, or the results of the models. Its like indirectly selling your data.
This could be a big win for Facebook, because if Facebook does not dish out our information to other companies, it will *uniquely" be placed to provide such services to the rest of the world.
And this will be almost impossible to regulate.
[+] [-] B1FF_PSUVM|8 years ago|reply
Meh, the models will be worthless in a few months, and that is if they aren't already worthless right now.
All those black boxes with magic coefficients from inputs to outputs are inherently unmaintainable. Toss them a black swan, and it all goes pear-shaped.
[+] [-] spullara|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sixothree|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] danso|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] return1|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dc2|8 years ago|reply
In other words, it's not enough that media is accurate. Bias is just as important.
[+] [-] deckar01|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 908087|8 years ago|reply
Note the wording here, which is similar to the misleading wording Zuckerberg used to avoid honestly answering certain questions in recent days:
> “allows people to see and take out all the information they’ve put into Facebook.”
This doesn't include data such as:
- Data your "friends" have "put into Facebook" about you, which could include SMS/call records of your communications with those friends and various other details.
- Data Facebook purchases or collects from data brokers or public records
- Data Facebook collects on the broader web via "like" buttons, etc
[+] [-] phy6|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] spullara|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bdamm|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ta23464947|8 years ago|reply
Presumably that doesn't mean an email address, they actually collate information about you the individual - what's the process of having a look at that?
[+] [-] tzury|8 years ago|reply
Tracking cookies, personal profiling, and several other trails would probably never be exposed.
[+] [-] itakedrugs|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] zuckdrink|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wnevets|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] return1|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] phy6|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mudil|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] B1FF_PSUVM|8 years ago|reply
(Usually only when the sauce is for the goose. If for the gander, indignation ensues.)
[+] [-] greggarious|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ygaf|8 years ago|reply
How useful is the info one can even get from this?
I mean even if you interpret unfriending as enemying (which is a leap), possibly revealing interests you don't have, associations you don't have.... it's a lot weaker (to advertisers) than positive information.
[+] [-] lordCarbonFiber|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] phy6|8 years ago|reply