India is an interesting place at the moment and the pressure to succeed is immense (often to the detriment of personal wellbeing). So much so that cheating schemes are commonly devised by large groups of people, and the ingenuity involved is often quite remarkable and creative.
I've personally hired a number of people in my Delhi office from the local IIT, and these are a few things I've noticed amongst new grads: parrot fashion learning is rife across the board. Despite being smart, they often struggle to think on their feet. It's as if they want a fully defined a problem domain, AND want to solve problems only within that defined domain, much like an exam! Anything outside of their comfort zone is met with a rather damp response equating to "we haven't covered that in class yet". In business (and even development), that attitude is not a good one to have.
What's funny, however, is that if you walk past an Indian shanty town, you will find examples of (often illegal) innovation at every corner, from stolen electricty to rigged water meters etc - usually concocted by people with little education. The innovative mindset exists in the heart of Indian society, but the education system somehow seems to restrict it by making people believe that the path to success is narrow and the same for everyone. Hence the competition.
I feel the education system needs to encourage free thinking more than rote learning. I believe it would allow students to enjoy their subjects, rather than just looking at them as a stepping stone to success. Perhaps if students approached their studies with a sense of wonder and excitement, rather than competetive aggression, their mental state would be significantly better during their years of education.
Without a doubt all the years of exam preparation in the teenage years come at a steep cost. For a young person in their teens to not have the time to reflect, be self-aware, and explore what life has to offer, is necessarily a failure of the system as a whole. But that is the reality in India, and if students must trade all that for studying hard then it simply reflects their (I would argue correct) perspective on the potential rewards of a solid career and securing your future from the certain chaos that awaits the uneducated or even poorly performing students in India.
In that sense I would say it is unfair to claim that Indian students graduating from an IIT can't do this or that; it is actually an achievement in and of itself that they managed to get there and out without turning out to be entirely dysfunctional. While I would not argue that competition in India (in the context of these national examinations) is much higher than the competition in the West in various spheres (sports, sciences, tech, etc.), the reality is that the breadth of options to a good place in life is extremely limited, and the competition is rather concentrated to a few possibilities. You cannot opt to become a YouTuber, pro basketball player or a digital nomad if you're born Indian. There is essentially a bunch of careers in science, engineering and medicine, and a few top institutions for each of these ends, whose pedigree can get you very far, and failing that, there is much uncertainty to be faced. And most Indian students, while unable to articulate this, clearly feel these pressures and act accordingly.
What you're witnessing is the contradiction between real education (designed for learning) and credentialism. The truth is that the world is facing a massive crunch. Billions of people are struggling to get out of the circumstances they're trapped in. Getting a credential and getting a professional job is seen as one of the only paths out of the mire.
People who are desperate have no interest in free thinking. Their goal is to escape. That's it.
Reminds me of an anecdote Richard Feynman had in his book on the Brazilian education system [1]. Basically, the students could memorize crap from books but didn't really comprehend what they were learning, such that when Feynman would ask a question such as "if I hold a glass of water in front of this picture, what will it look like?" they couldn't answer. But if he asked "What is the refractive index of water?" they would answer instantly.
This is an accurate observation on the IIT students. A student in an IIT is an demonstration for their will power to sacrifice their social life in their teens to know all the common problems(past years exam questions) by repeated practice. The one thing that makes harder to work with IIT students is they feel entitled forever and feels they belong to a higher caste. That is why its always best to form teams with only IIT graduates. Also another important thing to note is IIT as an under graduate is much tougher to get in to rather than as an IIT post graduate.
They seem efficient and ingenious. It's clear that they're optimizing for their incentives. They're incentivized to pass the test, so they come up with these brilliant schemes for cheating. I can't even get three friends to agree on a place to have lunch, how much organization, skill, and leadership does it take to cook up a class-wide cheating scheme? How valuable would that skill be in the workplace?
>What's funny, however, is that if you walk past an Indian shanty town, you will find examples of (often illegal) innovation at every corner, from stolen electricty to rigged water meters etc - usually concocted by people with little education. The innovative mindset exists in the heart of Indian society,
Yes, very true. Seen stuff like this myself. A couple of examples:
1. When living in Bhopal (city in central India) in teens, I used to frequent auto mechanic shops to get my bike or jeep fixed. Over many such visits over years, I was often amazed to see the way they innovated and managed with less resources, scrounged, adapted, etc., to get parts, to fix things, etc. I remember multiple cases where they were fixing a vehicle problem and needed a rod or wire or screw, and would just look around a bit, and almost inevitably would find some piece of metal nearby that fit the need, and make use of it, maybe with a bit of tweaking, such as filing, bending or hammering it. Of course, in a mechanic's shop you expect parts and scrap to be lying around, but still, it was uncanny. In North and Central India they use the word jugad a lot (some spell it jugaad, and it has a Wikipedia entry too, IIRC), for this ability or approach (not just related to mechanic's work but for anything in life), and that is what inspired me to name both my blogs "jugad", since the broad topic of both is software innovation. The older one, jugad's Journal, which was at jugad.livejournal.com, is not available now, after LiveJournal was acquired (except maybe via the internet Archive), but I've been blogging at the newer one, jugad2.blogspot.com, since 2008, except for some gaps.
2. In Pune, once, I was looking for C. K. Prahlad's book "The Fortune at the Bottom of the Pyramid". [1] I first went into a well-known bookstore, Manny's, and asked the salesperson there for it. He had a lackadaisical manner and almost did not bother to reply, just mumbled something. maybe saying no.
Then I went out and just nearby, saw a bookstall on the footpath. I mentioned the book to the guy. Not only did he know the book title, he also knew the author's name, and mentioned a few other books by him. He then said he did not have the book right then, but could arrange to procure it in a few days. Sure enough, when I went back there a few days later, he had the book available, in the original, and I bought it. Very enterprising people, they often are, the roadside vendors and such, often more than more privileged people.
Italian here. In Naples we've been having those 'smart people who steal electricity and rig water meters' for a looooooooong time. You might want to find your exceptional talents here.
The pressure to succeed is immense everywhere, this is hardly a notable feature of Indian society. Others have mentioned this already on this thread but let me paraphrase, basically no one is satisfied with some objective notion of success (like a high standard of living), rather success means to do better than those around you. So if you have three cars parked in your garage in the USA and are living an impossibly comfortable life, materially, by all measures, it is nevertheless almost surely the case that you feel the "pressure to succeed".
This is a pretty inane article for placing too much emphasis on a stupid gimmick like anti-suicide ceiling fans, when the underlying issue is a serious mental health issue of extraordinarily stressed students.
I'm Indian and I remember the summer of my 12th grade exams back in 2007 just like yesterday because of some latent awareness that something very important is happening here. I sat in so many exams that summer. First was the CBSE boards aka AISSCE (which was the all-important failsafe), then AIEEE (for admission to the NITs), then BITSAT (for admission to BITS), and finally the IITJEE (for admission to the IITs). All these exams are fairly long, and you compete at the national level.
Already back then the competition was fierce with kids enrolling in tuition centers half a decade even before their first attempt at any of these exams (it was quite common for people to try a few times). I could write a very long essay about the depth of preparation that goes into attempting these exams. It is quite natural that the competitive pressures has worsened over the years with students attempting to out-prepare one another by even bigger margins.
In a country so huge, of course not all students attempt this route, but landing a seat in the small list of prestigious institutions is the only ticket to a good career in India for the most part. This is not unlike American students who take AP level courses, demonstrate exceptional talent in sports or music, or volunteer their time in different ways to stand out in the application process at one of the big name schools. So in that sense, this is describing a very relatable struggle among students across nations, though the means are substantially different.
the underlying issue is a serious mental health issue of extraordinarily stressed students
The underlying issue is that billions of people around the world are being squeezed through an ever shrinking funnel in a desperate attempt to escape poverty. The pressure continues to build, year over year. Looking at it as a "mental health" problem is only one less level removed from the source than looking at it as a "ceiling fan" problem.
Yep. It matters less apparently if millions of people wander around feeling suicidal as long as they don't actually commit suicide. For what? So we can pick candidates for the professions more efficiently.
I did my grade 10 in 2009 and grade 12 in 2011, giving CBSE board exams as well. Holy hell, i remember those two years as pure torture. My day looked something like this,
Go to school at 6:30 ( didn't give much attention in classes), come home at 2:30, go to tuition from 4 to 9, come home, have dinner and then be forced to "study". Looking back, i still don't know how i survived that.
Contrast that to my undergrad in Canada where it was fun to study and do assignments.
- Ridiculously redundant number of tests : AIEEE, BITSAT, IITJEE, AIIMS MBBS, JIPMER MBBS, EAMCET/KCET/KEAM/TNEA (state level entrance tests in south india).
- Lack of common syllabus, common books : When every student's ultimate goal is to become a good engineer or a doctor , why so much disparity in the syllabus being taught in various high schools.
Hahaha, 2007 here too! I also felt really uneasy in December 2006 about where I was, so I wrote entrance examinations to a bunch of third rate colleges as well (VIT, Amrita, Manipal, etc)
> This is a pretty inane article for placing too much emphasis on a stupid gimmick like anti-suicide ceiling fans, when the underlying issue is a serious mental health issue of extraordinarily stressed students.
That's what happens when a nation of over a billion people has only a few hundred thousand spots on a top. It is insane competition. Wired is writing about it because this level of competition is absolutely foreign to the last few generations of westerners.
It is a norm for India, China or Russia. And these are the people who will be competing with us in 10-20 years.
I am from Kota - the city mentioned in this article as the epicenter of this crisis. India's annual suicide rate is 10.5 per 100,000 people, while the suicide rate for the world as a whole is 11.6 per 100,000 [1]. Kota has seen an extremely large influx of young students over the last decade. Roughly 200,000 [2] students come to live in this city to study for college entrance exam. Now, while the high-pressure exams are a problem and there are a complex set of contributing factors that make the exams "high pressure" - social norms, lottery-ticket-out-of-middle-class-mindset, lack of other options, population, demographics (large number of young people) etc. - but the article is trying to make a link between the high pressure exam and suicides, that seems a bit problematic to me. This exam has existed for more than 50 years, and has always been very hard and high pressure.
This article states that "from the start of 2014 to November 2017, 45 Kota students committed suicide". Please make up your mind about the facts, but it seems like lazy journalism and a stretch to make the connection between the exam and suicides without accounting for deviations from per capita rates.
I am from Kota too and your argument is just nit-picking. Of course, when you're blaming high-pressure exams, you're also blaming every factor related to it. Your analysis of suicide rates fails to consider that these are very young students barely in the age group of 15-19 and the cause is singular (high-pressure parenting).
But suicide rate is just one symptom that this industry engenders. The immense pressure these kids are subject to is depressing as fuck. They (and their parents) all have been fed the dream that working 15 hours/day is a sure-shot way to make it in. And once you make in IIT, you don't have to fret about anything else.
Some kids have been working towards this dream, right from 6-7th grade. Yes! six years before they are to take the actual exam.
I was very lucky to escape this trap. I considered myself to be very dumb and knew that there's absolutely no chance I was going to make it.
Looking back, it just escapes me how so many people can come to believe that a single exam is going to narrate your whole fate in life.
> India's annual suicide rate is 10.5 per 100,000 people, while the suicide rate for the world as a whole is 11.6 per 100,000
You need a little bit of caution here. It's very difficult to compare rates of death with other countries because there are different definitions for suicide, and different levels of recording and reporting.
In particular, there are problems in some areas of India of under recording deaths.
> In the last two decades, the suicide rate has increased from 7.9 to 10.3 per 100,000,8 with very high rates in some southern regions.9 In a study published in The Lancet in June 2012, the estimated number of suicides in India in 2010 was about 187,000.10 According to the National Crime Records Bureau (NCRB); state of Tamil Nadu, West Bengal, Andhra Pradesh, Maharashtra and Karnataka have registered a consistently higher number of suicidal deaths during the last few years and together accounted for 56.2% of the total suicides reported in the country. Uttar Pradesh, the most populous state (16.5% share of the population) has reported a comparatively lower percentage of suicidal deaths, accounting for only 3.6% of the total suicides reported in this country, but this researcher feels that this is due to the underestimation of suicide cases in this area. There is a general agreement that previous statistics on the incidence of suicide in the Lucknow region were grossly inadequate and that their comparison based on the figures available is inaccurate and misleading. This causes the suicide problem to be underestimated and, thus, neglected by the government, although this problem seems to be universal. In addition, the features of deaths due to suicide are changing constantly, revealing complex social and cultural developments.11 Prichard and Amanullah (2007)12 suggested that, to avoid the under-reporting of suicides, both formal suicide verdicts and other violent deaths should be considered together because the other violent deaths may include hidden suicides.
"Large group of young students in India, pursuing a future under impossible circumstances, collapsing under the immense pressure and leading some of them to commit suicide."
Well, that's terrible. Surely we should discuss why they even get to this point, and how this could be prevented?
"Most suicides happen by hanging from ceiling fans, so let's make anti-suicide ceiling fans."
While I agree that simply focusing on the method used is missing the bigger picture, it can have benefits. In England & Wales, changing domestic gas formulation dropped the overall suicide rate [1], so there is a precedent for positive effects from removing easy access. While this should certainly not be the only measure, it can be accomplished quite a bit more quickly and easily than changing both the university entrance process as well as the parenting culture. But I would consider it at-best to be a stopgap measure.
Obviously you need more than safer fans, but don't knock it. Reducing access to means and methods is the most important thing you can do for suicide prevention.
People talk about method substitution, but that doesn't always happen.
I am from India, and I have experienced the kind of pressure that this article is talking about. Personally, I feel that the root cause of this kind of pressure placed on teenagers is the abject fear of failure that is prevalent in India, especially in the middle class population. If one cannot crack these exams with flying colors, then society(most part of it at least) writes them off as losers who are doomed to a low paying job with no prospects of success in life, financial and personal.
A lot of people equate academic brilliance with intelligence and build up on that logic that it'll lead to financial prosperity, which in turn will lead to a good image in society and hence happiness. Don't have good marks, you are worthless. Never bother if you are a great athlete, singer, artist or any of the other vocations.
Even within academics, if you can't make it into one of the areas which pay a lot, like CS/EE/Medical science etc, then society views you with pity about your wasted talent. Doesn't matter how skilled of a Civil/Mechanical engineer or architect you are.
I feel lucky to have been exposed to the western system to get out of such a though process and hope that India can pick up some good things from the west in the field of education.
These things have always existed in India. Largely happens because most people come from a strata of society where failure is not an option. Should you fail, you go back to the same crappy conditions all life.
Having said that, Indians solicit social approval as a report card that evaluates their life. And due to this people face irrational pressures from total strangers who have no stake in their lives. I remember suicide cases were common even during lay offs.
Thank fully now the society is gradually gaining numbers in non-conformists. This is now considered cool. I remember as a teenager I was largely treated as a rebel outcast, if didn't care for social approval.
People need to understand they can do what they want, how they want, and on their terms. Social approval means nothing, especially if people granting the approval have no real stake in your life.
> Having said that, Indians solicit social approval as a report card that evaluates their life.
Ask any psychologist and they will confirm that 'soliciting social approval as a report card to evaluate their life' is basically a human condition affection close to 100% of the species.
The only thing 'Indian' about it is that maybe only Indians think that its an 'Indian' thing.
>People need to understand they can do what they want, how they want, and on their terms
Not to be nit picker...but while encouraging to hear, that sentence seems a wee bit exaggerated. I think the main takeaway from your post--which I 100% agree with--is that social approval being the motivator in your life is a recipe for disappointment.
Extreme economic incentives perpetuate odd socio-economic behaviour. Look at the Japanese greying population renting everything from fake family to a complete fake wedding with the whole 9 yards[1](Yes Virginia there is a Netflix documentary on it as well[2]).
But enough about Japan. The dangers to India are very real.
- 1 million people entering the workforce every month due to demographics.
- 50% population engaged in agriculture providing 14% of the GDP.
- Difficult labor laws, swamped Judicial system makes for only technology intensive industries that employ fewer people.
It is a unique experiment in the history of Democracies where ~600 Million people need to be lifted out of poverty and into sustainable jobs. This has not been done before.
>To prepare, students from across India travel to the historic northern city of Kota, spending months or even years away from their family and home. Whether the children of manual labourers or business tycoons, all have traveled to Kota for one reason: academic glory
Highly misleading. Only a small percentage of people actually go to Kota for preparation, and the number of students in Kota coming from poorer sections of society is exetremely low. The coaching institutes are not cheap, sometimes costing almost as much as college tuition.
This paragraph paints it as some kind of pilgrimage that every student goes through.
An anecdote and a poll. I grew up in India in middle class family where education was considered important. A recurring nightmare (autual dream I see during sleep) I see even in my adulthood is about me about to take an exam and not being prepared for it. I do not see this nightmare often but I still remember it since the amount of panic I feel when I see it. I discussed with my wife and she also have these nightmare of similar nature. I wanted to check whether anyone out here see this and whether it is more prevalent in culture like Indian culture or is it a universal phenomenon?
Notice how large percentage of the article was about a stupid fan, whose main feature is falling off the ceiling, rather than about the actual topic you clicked on the article for.
The root problem is that there are too few institutes offering quality education, and given the limited seats, the competition is sky high. Without going to Kota, there is almost zero chance a student from a small town or village is going to make it to any of those institutions. The quality of education in a reputed City school and the best small town school is vastly different. I consider myself lucky that my district happened to have a good school, that students even from neighbouring districts attended (we are talking about travelling 30 kms to school). But not everyone has access to one and hence Kota is their only alternative.
The issue is that kids aren't taught to handle pressure, that is the main problem because parents pamper kids until they go to college!
as a child, you are not allowed to have your own decisions, like ever. You eat what your parents tell you to eat, you take admission to undergrad/postgrad about what your parents tell. You study hard as they told you, they even decide when and to whom you lose virginity! (arranged marriage)
No wonder if there is a little pressure then kids can't handle it. This is not a governmental issue, this is societal one. and the government can't do shit, pardon my language.
Now what will happen? The govt will panick and reduce the quality of exams, the exams which are already pathetic in quality, the proof for which can be found by counting the number of Indian instituties in top 100 in the world, ONE!!
I have studied in Indian and American universities. Many "top ranked" American universities have considerably milder requirements than what is required for passing IIT JEE.
Ranking is based on a number of factors like funding and number of foreign faculty and students. It has nothing to do with the toughness of the entrance exams.
In fact, if you rank institutes according to acceptance ratios, IITs will nearly be the top institutes in the world (the acceptance percentage, roughly 10000 among 1200000, or approx 0.8 percent), along with places like University of Tokyo. If you say restrict to the 5 old IITs, the acceptance ratio is around 0.4 percent. Acceptance ratios have been kept out from ranking parameters.
I agree with you on most things but not the last part. Have you even seen Indian Engineering/Medical entrance exam questions? North American high school exams are a joke compared to Indian Engineering Entrance tests. And IITs are good schools. They aren't ranked as high because they don't fulfil the breadth requirements for those ranking studies. They are purely engineering schools.
I appreciate this for the article points out an alarming issue.
But there has been slight mis-representation. It slightly portrays that Indian engineering education landscape starts and ends in IITs only.
No, there are the NITs, BITSes, IIITs, IISc and others which have equal facilities as IITs and are even doing better than some IITs.
>>It slightly portrays that Indian engineering education landscape starts and ends in IITs only.
Well, the problem is people treat degrees from these institutions as lifelong aristocratic privilege. Once you start going in that direction, its now in your interest to keep the myths alive about your alma mater.
How else are you going to earn higher than everybody else? You have to convince the society nobody can ever be good as you, by very social design, and you have to keep things that way.
The ridiculous thing is that exams are irrational: they don't measure knowledge and ability, i.e. they don't measure what they purport to measure. It makes the societal scale suffering and death all the more meaningless and disturbing.
Just wondering how this might be tied to the statistic[1] which ranks top countries (hours/week) where parents help their kids with their homework. India ranks as the top country. This might set bad habits to the students with learning, as they come more dependant to get help from their parents (and other peers) and it might also hamper their problem solving skills.
And not too far from parental "assistance: is the question of cheating, which is reportedly widespread. Is it the pressure of the exams alone, or anger about the cheating-prevention measures?
Somewhat related, I recall stories of riots in China due to anti-cheating measures -- teachers and proctors were dragged into the streets and beaten, and one parent indignantly proclaimed "It's not fair! If they cannot cheat, how will they succeed?"
One thing for Westerners to be aware of: In India, your exam scores (SAT-type thingys) are public, very public. They are usually published in a special edition of the local newspaper, in descending order. Meaning that the best kid comes first in a very public way. Couple this with the familial honor system/arranged marriages and I think you'll understand why pressure can be so intense. Even your love-life can be radically changed by these tests.
The exploding population of India has put a huge pressure on the public infrastructure. Any credible university/college (because of numerous swindling orgs) which usually means govt. run has a flood of candidates, the IITs being the archetypal example. Add this to the social pressure put by the definition of success according to the culture and you've got yourself in an Indian pressure cooker[1] which shapes you to perfectly fit the mold of the educational system- effectively quenching creativity.
I wouldn't generalize though. The smart still are able to wiggle through and come out the other end without selling their soul. But the opportunity cost for the others who would have excelled given better instruction and infrastructure is unfathomable.
> From the start of 2014 to November 2017, 45 Kota students committed suicide.
Every suicide is a tragedy, but what's the base rate? I have no idea if 45 is a lot or a little without knowing how many people were Kota students during this timeframe and what the overall youth suicide rate in India is. For all the reader knows, the suicide rate is lower in this population. Why doesn't the media report the basic information that would make their case? It's bad, innumerate reporting.
I bring this up because the way this is reported is similar to the Foxconn suicide "scandal" where it turned out the suicide rate among Foxconn employees was lower than the national average. (https://www.zdnet.com/article/media-gets-its-facts-wrong-wor...)
[+] [-] osrec|8 years ago|reply
I've personally hired a number of people in my Delhi office from the local IIT, and these are a few things I've noticed amongst new grads: parrot fashion learning is rife across the board. Despite being smart, they often struggle to think on their feet. It's as if they want a fully defined a problem domain, AND want to solve problems only within that defined domain, much like an exam! Anything outside of their comfort zone is met with a rather damp response equating to "we haven't covered that in class yet". In business (and even development), that attitude is not a good one to have.
What's funny, however, is that if you walk past an Indian shanty town, you will find examples of (often illegal) innovation at every corner, from stolen electricty to rigged water meters etc - usually concocted by people with little education. The innovative mindset exists in the heart of Indian society, but the education system somehow seems to restrict it by making people believe that the path to success is narrow and the same for everyone. Hence the competition.
I feel the education system needs to encourage free thinking more than rote learning. I believe it would allow students to enjoy their subjects, rather than just looking at them as a stepping stone to success. Perhaps if students approached their studies with a sense of wonder and excitement, rather than competetive aggression, their mental state would be significantly better during their years of education.
[+] [-] 110011|8 years ago|reply
In that sense I would say it is unfair to claim that Indian students graduating from an IIT can't do this or that; it is actually an achievement in and of itself that they managed to get there and out without turning out to be entirely dysfunctional. While I would not argue that competition in India (in the context of these national examinations) is much higher than the competition in the West in various spheres (sports, sciences, tech, etc.), the reality is that the breadth of options to a good place in life is extremely limited, and the competition is rather concentrated to a few possibilities. You cannot opt to become a YouTuber, pro basketball player or a digital nomad if you're born Indian. There is essentially a bunch of careers in science, engineering and medicine, and a few top institutions for each of these ends, whose pedigree can get you very far, and failing that, there is much uncertainty to be faced. And most Indian students, while unable to articulate this, clearly feel these pressures and act accordingly.
[+] [-] chongli|8 years ago|reply
People who are desperate have no interest in free thinking. Their goal is to escape. That's it.
[+] [-] ythn|8 years ago|reply
[1] http://v.cx/2010/04/feynman-brazil-education
[+] [-] eric24234|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Kluny|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] vram22|8 years ago|reply
>What's funny, however, is that if you walk past an Indian shanty town, you will find examples of (often illegal) innovation at every corner, from stolen electricty to rigged water meters etc - usually concocted by people with little education. The innovative mindset exists in the heart of Indian society,
Yes, very true. Seen stuff like this myself. A couple of examples:
1. When living in Bhopal (city in central India) in teens, I used to frequent auto mechanic shops to get my bike or jeep fixed. Over many such visits over years, I was often amazed to see the way they innovated and managed with less resources, scrounged, adapted, etc., to get parts, to fix things, etc. I remember multiple cases where they were fixing a vehicle problem and needed a rod or wire or screw, and would just look around a bit, and almost inevitably would find some piece of metal nearby that fit the need, and make use of it, maybe with a bit of tweaking, such as filing, bending or hammering it. Of course, in a mechanic's shop you expect parts and scrap to be lying around, but still, it was uncanny. In North and Central India they use the word jugad a lot (some spell it jugaad, and it has a Wikipedia entry too, IIRC), for this ability or approach (not just related to mechanic's work but for anything in life), and that is what inspired me to name both my blogs "jugad", since the broad topic of both is software innovation. The older one, jugad's Journal, which was at jugad.livejournal.com, is not available now, after LiveJournal was acquired (except maybe via the internet Archive), but I've been blogging at the newer one, jugad2.blogspot.com, since 2008, except for some gaps.
2. In Pune, once, I was looking for C. K. Prahlad's book "The Fortune at the Bottom of the Pyramid". [1] I first went into a well-known bookstore, Manny's, and asked the salesperson there for it. He had a lackadaisical manner and almost did not bother to reply, just mumbled something. maybe saying no. Then I went out and just nearby, saw a bookstall on the footpath. I mentioned the book to the guy. Not only did he know the book title, he also knew the author's name, and mentioned a few other books by him. He then said he did not have the book right then, but could arrange to procure it in a few days. Sure enough, when I went back there a few days later, he had the book available, in the original, and I bought it. Very enterprising people, they often are, the roadside vendors and such, often more than more privileged people.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C._K._Prahalad
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fortune_at_the_Bottom_of_t...
[+] [-] unknown|8 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] yourstruly33|8 years ago|reply
Yours truly.
[+] [-] 110011|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] adreamingsoul|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 110011|8 years ago|reply
I'm Indian and I remember the summer of my 12th grade exams back in 2007 just like yesterday because of some latent awareness that something very important is happening here. I sat in so many exams that summer. First was the CBSE boards aka AISSCE (which was the all-important failsafe), then AIEEE (for admission to the NITs), then BITSAT (for admission to BITS), and finally the IITJEE (for admission to the IITs). All these exams are fairly long, and you compete at the national level.
Already back then the competition was fierce with kids enrolling in tuition centers half a decade even before their first attempt at any of these exams (it was quite common for people to try a few times). I could write a very long essay about the depth of preparation that goes into attempting these exams. It is quite natural that the competitive pressures has worsened over the years with students attempting to out-prepare one another by even bigger margins.
In a country so huge, of course not all students attempt this route, but landing a seat in the small list of prestigious institutions is the only ticket to a good career in India for the most part. This is not unlike American students who take AP level courses, demonstrate exceptional talent in sports or music, or volunteer their time in different ways to stand out in the application process at one of the big name schools. So in that sense, this is describing a very relatable struggle among students across nations, though the means are substantially different.
[+] [-] chongli|8 years ago|reply
The underlying issue is that billions of people around the world are being squeezed through an ever shrinking funnel in a desperate attempt to escape poverty. The pressure continues to build, year over year. Looking at it as a "mental health" problem is only one less level removed from the source than looking at it as a "ceiling fan" problem.
[+] [-] truculation|8 years ago|reply
Yep. It matters less apparently if millions of people wander around feeling suicidal as long as they don't actually commit suicide. For what? So we can pick candidates for the professions more efficiently.
[+] [-] parthdesai|8 years ago|reply
Go to school at 6:30 ( didn't give much attention in classes), come home at 2:30, go to tuition from 4 to 9, come home, have dinner and then be forced to "study". Looking back, i still don't know how i survived that.
Contrast that to my undergrad in Canada where it was fun to study and do assignments.
[+] [-] pvelagal|8 years ago|reply
- Ridiculously redundant number of tests : AIEEE, BITSAT, IITJEE, AIIMS MBBS, JIPMER MBBS, EAMCET/KCET/KEAM/TNEA (state level entrance tests in south india).
- Lack of common syllabus, common books : When every student's ultimate goal is to become a good engineer or a doctor , why so much disparity in the syllabus being taught in various high schools.
Sheer stupidity !
[+] [-] praneshp|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] notyourday|8 years ago|reply
That's what happens when a nation of over a billion people has only a few hundred thousand spots on a top. It is insane competition. Wired is writing about it because this level of competition is absolutely foreign to the last few generations of westerners.
It is a norm for India, China or Russia. And these are the people who will be competing with us in 10-20 years.
[+] [-] a_d|8 years ago|reply
This article states that "from the start of 2014 to November 2017, 45 Kota students committed suicide". Please make up your mind about the facts, but it seems like lazy journalism and a stretch to make the connection between the exam and suicides without accounting for deviations from per capita rates.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_India
[2] https://www.quora.com/How-many-students-are-in-Kota
[+] [-] shubhamjain|8 years ago|reply
But suicide rate is just one symptom that this industry engenders. The immense pressure these kids are subject to is depressing as fuck. They (and their parents) all have been fed the dream that working 15 hours/day is a sure-shot way to make it in. And once you make in IIT, you don't have to fret about anything else.
Some kids have been working towards this dream, right from 6-7th grade. Yes! six years before they are to take the actual exam.
I was very lucky to escape this trap. I considered myself to be very dumb and knew that there's absolutely no chance I was going to make it.
Looking back, it just escapes me how so many people can come to believe that a single exam is going to narrate your whole fate in life.
[+] [-] DanBC|8 years ago|reply
You need a little bit of caution here. It's very difficult to compare rates of death with other countries because there are different definitions for suicide, and different levels of recording and reporting.
In particular, there are problems in some areas of India of under recording deaths.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2090536X1...
> In the last two decades, the suicide rate has increased from 7.9 to 10.3 per 100,000,8 with very high rates in some southern regions.9 In a study published in The Lancet in June 2012, the estimated number of suicides in India in 2010 was about 187,000.10 According to the National Crime Records Bureau (NCRB); state of Tamil Nadu, West Bengal, Andhra Pradesh, Maharashtra and Karnataka have registered a consistently higher number of suicidal deaths during the last few years and together accounted for 56.2% of the total suicides reported in the country. Uttar Pradesh, the most populous state (16.5% share of the population) has reported a comparatively lower percentage of suicidal deaths, accounting for only 3.6% of the total suicides reported in this country, but this researcher feels that this is due to the underestimation of suicide cases in this area. There is a general agreement that previous statistics on the incidence of suicide in the Lucknow region were grossly inadequate and that their comparison based on the figures available is inaccurate and misleading. This causes the suicide problem to be underestimated and, thus, neglected by the government, although this problem seems to be universal. In addition, the features of deaths due to suicide are changing constantly, revealing complex social and cultural developments.11 Prichard and Amanullah (2007)12 suggested that, to avoid the under-reporting of suicides, both formal suicide verdicts and other violent deaths should be considered together because the other violent deaths may include hidden suicides.
[+] [-] lozenge|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] intended|8 years ago|reply
India just doesn’t have the reporting or data to showcase it. This will improve over time and the scope of it will be clear.
[+] [-] more-coffee|8 years ago|reply
Well, that's terrible. Surely we should discuss why they even get to this point, and how this could be prevented?
"Most suicides happen by hanging from ceiling fans, so let's make anti-suicide ceiling fans."
Nailed it.
[+] [-] zrobotics|8 years ago|reply
[1] https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/449144?jou...
[+] [-] DanBC|8 years ago|reply
People talk about method substitution, but that doesn't always happen.
[+] [-] manojlds|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] trinkletingas|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] oarla|8 years ago|reply
A lot of people equate academic brilliance with intelligence and build up on that logic that it'll lead to financial prosperity, which in turn will lead to a good image in society and hence happiness. Don't have good marks, you are worthless. Never bother if you are a great athlete, singer, artist or any of the other vocations.
Even within academics, if you can't make it into one of the areas which pay a lot, like CS/EE/Medical science etc, then society views you with pity about your wasted talent. Doesn't matter how skilled of a Civil/Mechanical engineer or architect you are.
I feel lucky to have been exposed to the western system to get out of such a though process and hope that India can pick up some good things from the west in the field of education.
[+] [-] kamaal|8 years ago|reply
Having said that, Indians solicit social approval as a report card that evaluates their life. And due to this people face irrational pressures from total strangers who have no stake in their lives. I remember suicide cases were common even during lay offs.
Thank fully now the society is gradually gaining numbers in non-conformists. This is now considered cool. I remember as a teenager I was largely treated as a rebel outcast, if didn't care for social approval.
People need to understand they can do what they want, how they want, and on their terms. Social approval means nothing, especially if people granting the approval have no real stake in your life.
[+] [-] modi15|8 years ago|reply
Ask any psychologist and they will confirm that 'soliciting social approval as a report card to evaluate their life' is basically a human condition affection close to 100% of the species.
The only thing 'Indian' about it is that maybe only Indians think that its an 'Indian' thing.
[+] [-] preordained|8 years ago|reply
Not to be nit picker...but while encouraging to hear, that sentence seems a wee bit exaggerated. I think the main takeaway from your post--which I 100% agree with--is that social approval being the motivator in your life is a recipe for disappointment.
[+] [-] itissid|8 years ago|reply
But enough about Japan. The dangers to India are very real.
- 1 million people entering the workforce every month due to demographics.
- 50% population engaged in agriculture providing 14% of the GDP.
- Difficult labor laws, swamped Judicial system makes for only technology intensive industries that employ fewer people.
It is a unique experiment in the history of Democracies where ~600 Million people need to be lifted out of poverty and into sustainable jobs. This has not been done before.
[1] https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2017/11/paying-fo... [2] https://www.amazon.com/gp/video/detail/B06Y1JVLD4
[+] [-] jitix|8 years ago|reply
Highly misleading. Only a small percentage of people actually go to Kota for preparation, and the number of students in Kota coming from poorer sections of society is exetremely low. The coaching institutes are not cheap, sometimes costing almost as much as college tuition.
This paragraph paints it as some kind of pilgrimage that every student goes through.
[+] [-] abraham_s|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] llarsson|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] enitihas|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] thewhitetulip|8 years ago|reply
as a child, you are not allowed to have your own decisions, like ever. You eat what your parents tell you to eat, you take admission to undergrad/postgrad about what your parents tell. You study hard as they told you, they even decide when and to whom you lose virginity! (arranged marriage)
No wonder if there is a little pressure then kids can't handle it. This is not a governmental issue, this is societal one. and the government can't do shit, pardon my language.
Now what will happen? The govt will panick and reduce the quality of exams, the exams which are already pathetic in quality, the proof for which can be found by counting the number of Indian instituties in top 100 in the world, ONE!!
[+] [-] sn41|8 years ago|reply
Ranking is based on a number of factors like funding and number of foreign faculty and students. It has nothing to do with the toughness of the entrance exams.
In fact, if you rank institutes according to acceptance ratios, IITs will nearly be the top institutes in the world (the acceptance percentage, roughly 10000 among 1200000, or approx 0.8 percent), along with places like University of Tokyo. If you say restrict to the 5 old IITs, the acceptance ratio is around 0.4 percent. Acceptance ratios have been kept out from ranking parameters.
[+] [-] harryVic|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nishnik|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kamaal|8 years ago|reply
Well, the problem is people treat degrees from these institutions as lifelong aristocratic privilege. Once you start going in that direction, its now in your interest to keep the myths alive about your alma mater.
How else are you going to earn higher than everybody else? You have to convince the society nobody can ever be good as you, by very social design, and you have to keep things that way.
[+] [-] twooclock|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] truculation|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kstx|8 years ago|reply
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16882430
[+] [-] jackhack|8 years ago|reply
Somewhat related, I recall stories of riots in China due to anti-cheating measures -- teachers and proctors were dragged into the streets and beaten, and one parent indignantly proclaimed "It's not fair! If they cannot cheat, how will they succeed?"
[+] [-] Balgair|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] fspacef|8 years ago|reply
Name = "3 Idiots"
[+] [-] j0e1|8 years ago|reply
The exploding population of India has put a huge pressure on the public infrastructure. Any credible university/college (because of numerous swindling orgs) which usually means govt. run has a flood of candidates, the IITs being the archetypal example. Add this to the social pressure put by the definition of success according to the culture and you've got yourself in an Indian pressure cooker[1] which shapes you to perfectly fit the mold of the educational system- effectively quenching creativity.
I wouldn't generalize though. The smart still are able to wiggle through and come out the other end without selling their soul. But the opportunity cost for the others who would have excelled given better instruction and infrastructure is unfathomable.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pressure_cooking
[+] [-] spacehome|8 years ago|reply
Every suicide is a tragedy, but what's the base rate? I have no idea if 45 is a lot or a little without knowing how many people were Kota students during this timeframe and what the overall youth suicide rate in India is. For all the reader knows, the suicide rate is lower in this population. Why doesn't the media report the basic information that would make their case? It's bad, innumerate reporting.
I bring this up because the way this is reported is similar to the Foxconn suicide "scandal" where it turned out the suicide rate among Foxconn employees was lower than the national average. (https://www.zdnet.com/article/media-gets-its-facts-wrong-wor...)